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dwtt
11-03-2009, 5:18 PM
It seems Virginia's Democrat governor has been defeated by Republican Bob McDonnell. Anyone know how this affects 2nd A rights in Virginia? I'm assuming this is going to make Virginia a bit more hostile for Bloomberg to run his illegal straw purchases.

BroncoBob
11-03-2009, 5:20 PM
Oh it goes a little farther then that. The Lt Governor and the Attorney General are all Republicans.

Sweep

Mikeb
11-03-2009, 5:30 PM
It's a nice slap in the face of the guy that tried to use his charm for the Democrat... Sorry Mr Obama
Mike

bigcalidave
11-03-2009, 5:34 PM
Looks like corzine is losing in NJ too!! Oblama supported the hell out of that guy too. Looks like he doesn't have the midas touch.

Wow I just saw the sample size on that one, hold off on the victory dance for now.

bwiese
11-03-2009, 5:38 PM
McDonell is pro-RKBA.

There's not a terrible RKBA situation in Virginia, with that being the home ground of NRA and VCDL.

However, population skews can weight metro areas so a state that's RKBA now can turn anti-RKBA in the future as demographics shift. That's why outta-staters shouldn't be too proud of "not being CA" - they can end up that way in a few years.

Some of McDonell's stances may rankle those of us also worried about general freedom and liberty, and may well be a liability of for Repubs out West - he believes the little wimmen should stay home and not work (they're a "detriment to the family"... even though many married folks don't want kids), and that the "goverment must restrain and punish homosexuality".

Outside of that, his min. gov't and reduced spending seem good to me.

stormy_clothing
11-03-2009, 5:40 PM
I can't wait, they already called everything the democrat gov did whether it was good or not as complete fail. Stupid politics anyway.

WarEagle
11-03-2009, 6:53 PM
Apparently the tingling leg effect isn't transferrable to other Dems.

yellowfin
11-03-2009, 8:39 PM
There's a decent chance they'll get campus carry with him in office. That will be a huge RKBA win to push the frontiers.

RomanDad
11-03-2009, 8:41 PM
Just heard Corzine Lost but Hoffman looks to be in trouble.....

dwtt
11-03-2009, 8:57 PM
Just heard Corzine Lost but Hoffman looks to be in trouble.....

I also just read Corzine lost. He was very anti-gun and I hope the elections in New Jersey and Virginia are indicators of the elections in 2010.

RomanDad
11-03-2009, 9:59 PM
I also just read Corzine lost. He was very anti-gun and I hope the elections in New Jersey and Virginia are indicators of the elections in 2010.

All three are DEFINITELY going to be a wake up call to moderate Republicans and blue dog democrats in the House.... Hoffmann on third party conservative ticket almost pulled it off (51-49)...

I suspect there will be a flight away from obamacare like we havent seen yet starting tomorrow.... The honeymoon is definitely over....

Electricboy
11-03-2009, 11:51 PM
did we get news on all three?

locosway
11-04-2009, 6:14 AM
Anyone know what happened in New York?

Timberline
11-04-2009, 7:19 AM
It seems Virginia's Democrat governor has been defeated by Republican Bob McDonnell. Anyone know how this affects 2nd A rights in Virginia? I'm assuming this is going to make Virginia a bit more hostile for Bloomberg to run his illegal straw purchases.

You're incorrect, the [Democratic] Governor of Virginia was not a candidate in the race. As to Bloomberg's efforts to expose illegal gunshow "loophole" sales, we should be supporting him. The loopholers are poisoning the well, and will ruin it for the rest of us.

7x57
11-04-2009, 7:40 AM
As to Bloomberg's efforts to expose illegal gunshow "loophole" sales, we should be supporting him. The loopholers are poisoning the well, and will ruin it for the rest of us.

What loophole?

7x57

Mitch
11-04-2009, 8:26 AM
It seems Virginia's Democrat governor has been defeated by Republican Bob McDonnell. Anyone know how this affects 2nd A rights in Virginia? I'm assuming this is going to make Virginia a bit more hostile for Bloomberg to run his illegal straw purchases.

Dunno how it changes things, but the loser, Creigh Deeds, was pro-gun.

FS00008
11-04-2009, 9:31 AM
You're incorrect, the [Democratic] Governor of Virginia was not a candidate in the race. As to Bloomberg's efforts to expose illegal gunshow "loophole" sales, we should be supporting him. The loopholers are poisoning the well, and will ruin it for the rest of us.


WTH are you talking about? Loophole? There is no such thing. How about this, remove the restrictions on interstate private sales as well as this idiotic PPT system that we have here in Ca. It's stupid, unnecessary, and a ridiculous waste of time and money.

Quser.619
11-04-2009, 10:05 AM
+1!

dwtt
11-04-2009, 6:47 PM
You're incorrect, the [Democratic] Governor of Virginia was not a candidate in the race. As to Bloomberg's efforts to expose illegal gunshow "loophole" sales, we should be supporting him. The loopholers are poisoning the well, and will ruin it for the rest of us.

Hey, you're actually right about something, Deeds was a state senator. But you're wrong about joining Bloomberg's crusade. Any gunowner supporting Bloomberg will find out they made a mistake and it's too late when his guns are confiscated, if Bloomberg has his way. There are no illegal gunshow loopholes, and private sales don't poison the well for other gun owners. It's hard for some people in California to believe, but there was a time when we were like Virginia when a person can sell his pistol, shotgun, or rifle to another person without having to go through a ffl.

Mulay El Raisuli
11-05-2009, 6:10 AM
All three are DEFINITELY going to be a wake up call to moderate Republicans and blue dog democrats in the House.... Hoffmann on third party conservative ticket almost pulled it off (51-49)...

I suspect there will be a flight away from obamacare like we havent seen yet starting tomorrow.... The honeymoon is definitely over....


Add to this the BIG drop in donations to Dems & its clear to me that the pendulum has definitely stopped swinging leftward. I'd even go so far as to say that its started swinging back to the right.

Isn't there supposed to be a rally of some sort at The Capitol today about Obamacare?

The Raisuli

SickofSoCal
11-05-2009, 6:25 AM
Do not put your faith in Neo-Cons...........you will get conned.


Down with the GOP, down with the DNC, up with Third Parties.


2010 needs to be the year of REAL change.

joelberg
11-05-2009, 7:05 AM
Do not put your faith in Neo-Cons...........you will get conned.


Down with the GOP, down with the DNC, up with Third Parties.


2010 needs to be the year of REAL change.

+1 !!!!

dixieD
11-05-2009, 7:08 AM
I agree. Michael Steele's and Newt Gingrich's support of Scozzafava clearly demonstrates this.

lomalinda
11-05-2009, 8:09 AM
"Newt Gingrich's support of Scozzafava"

Laura Ingraham took him to task for this on Fox yesterday. Good for her.

Dr. Peter Venkman
11-05-2009, 8:27 AM
Do not put your faith in Neo-Cons...........you will get conned.


Down with the GOP, down with the DNC, up with Third Parties.


2010 needs to be the year of REAL change.

+1

r3U9SJSfX1A

hvengel
11-05-2009, 8:42 AM
"Newt Gingrich's support of Scozzafava"

Laura Ingraham took him to task for this on Fox yesterday. Good for her.

So did Hannity although he was a little gentler with Newt. But Newt did admit that he was wrong and that the party leadership made a big mistake by choosing and supporting Scozzafava. He also admitted that if they had started out with Hoffman or someone like him that he would have won.

The important thing is that the grassroots conservatives and the conservative media are now being very vocal with the GOP when they try to be Dem-Lites. This was not happening in the past. For example Hannity used to be a straight down the line GOP cheerleader. He still has some tendencies in that direction but he is moving away from being a GOP shill to sounding more like a true conservative.

The Tea Party movement is starting to shake things up in general and in particular with the GOP which initially though that they could use it to their advantage without having to make changes in how they operate. I think this showed them that they would be held accountable and that business as usual would not work anymore. Going forward we need to make sure that the GOP really understands this and we need to also communicate this to the Dems but that will probably take a few election cycles.

rod
11-05-2009, 8:44 AM
McDonnell made a name for himself as our Atty. Gen. when he told Bloomberg that he'd lock him up in jail if he ever stepped into Virginia ever again and illegally purchased firearms. Now he's our Gov., and things should change for the better soon. We are trying to get campus carry, CCW in bars, and a few other RKBA items passed into law. Those things are nothing new around here. They were very narrowly defeated last year. Deeds was pro-gun only to a point. He would of favored closing down sales at gunshows from non FFLs as well as continuing LOC inside places that serve alcohol.

Yeah, we're dancing the happy dance here in VA.

dfletcher
11-05-2009, 8:48 AM
I agree. Michael Steele's and Newt Gingrich's support of Scozzafava clearly demonstrates this.

I see taking Gingrich to task, he's not in office nor on the Republican party payroll and one would think be able to support the candidate that best reflects his views. But regarding Steele, for better or worse the guy is the Republican Party Chairman. I don't see that he can come out for anyone other than the Republican candidate regardless of whether he agrees or disagrees with their politics, thinks they'll win or lose.

Conservative candidates running for seats held by middle of the road Republicans could be a huge problem for the Republican party in 2010 by taking away votes, similar to what would happen to Democratic party candidates in liberal seats if a far left candidate were to run.

It appears the Republican candidate in NY 23 would have won had there not been a conservative candidate on the ticket, that lesson is probably not lost on the Republican party. It will be interesting to see how they respond. Will they shift politics back to conservative principles or see the conservative candidate as a threat and try to eliminate it?

7x57
11-05-2009, 8:52 AM
Do not put your faith in Neo-Cons...........you will get conned.


This I agree with.


Down with the GOP, down with the DNC, up with Third Parties.

2010 needs to be the year of REAL change.

As stated, this would guarantee defeat in 2010. I cannot say what party will be viable against the Democratic party--but if one exists it will be named the Republican party.

That said, the threat of the grass-roots getting up and walking is really the only stick big enough to make the Republican party move away from it's own program of violating the Constitution. That is the real significance of NY-23; the grass-roots said that they would not shut up and vote based on party.

It's a fine line.

7x57

dfletcher
11-05-2009, 8:53 AM
So did Hannity although he was a little gentler with Newt. But Newt did admit that he was wrong and that the party leadership made a big mistake by choosing and supporting Scozzafava. He also admitted that if they had started out with Hoffman or someone like him that he would have won.


I think that's accurate. For a new candidate from a 3rd party, in so little time and in a district that while Republican is very liberal, to do so well is pretty impressive. When dropping out, had Scozzafava come out strongly for the conservative instead of the Democratic candidate he might have won.

7x57
11-05-2009, 9:07 AM
...regarding Steele, for better or worse the guy is the Republican Party Chairman. I don't see that he can come out for anyone other than the Republican candidate regardless of whether he agrees or disagrees with their politics, thinks they'll win or lose.


He has a lot of other influence besides endorsing a Democrat, which I agree he cannot do. We must not expect that--but we should expect the money to flow to good candidates and not RINOs.


It appears the Republican candidate in NY 23 would have won had there not been a conservative candidate on the ticket, that lesson is probably not lost on the Republican party. It will be interesting to see how they respond. Will they shift politics back to conservative principles or see the conservative candidate as a threat and try to eliminate it?

Hoffman also started really late, I believe--the Kamikaze media not withstanding, it is an astonishing display of strength for him to even get close.

It is also not such an ideological purge as the Kamikaze media wishes you to believe. Dede was not moderate, she was extreme--just an extreme they like. And in a district that a Conservative can win. But Conservatives backed Christie in spite of his problems, partly because they were nothing like Dede's problems and partly because he ran in Joisey :D, which is a deep blue state. They were not foolish enough to want to run someone like Hoffman there.

So I think it was quite deliberate and targeted--the message was "we understand Christie in NJ, but Dede in NY-23 steps very far across the line and won't be tolerated."

So far as I can tell, the Republican leadership is aware it got spanked. But one lasting effect is that money that would have gone to the party seems to have started going to funds and PACs that are more targeted, thanks to the outrage of conservatives finding how much of their money got spent for someone not simply moderate but very liberal indeed. It doesn't take that much tinfoil on your head to think that Dede was a deliberate attempt to subvert the party. I'm not sure I believe that, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

NY-23 wasn't just about 2010--in a sense, it was all about Crist vs. Rubio in Florida. And I seem to recall the party is showing signs of being aware of that. (ETA: and possibly about Carly vs. DeVore in California, but I'm not so sure about that. DeVore is in a much tougher state for conservatives, so there may be less outrage. It would also be the wrong outrage--the real scandal is that the party apparently told Larry Elder not to run. *That* is possibly worth a civil war, but it doesn't seem to have legs (at least not yet).)

As I keep saying, every losing party engages in a civil war for it's soul. NY-23 was a coup de main by the side that thinks their only route back to power is to return to their principles and not elect hypocrites and a loss for those who think their only route back to power is to move closer to the party that spanked them.

The reason I believe the former will win is that they are the ones who actually do the work in the elections. If they stick to their guns, they cannot really lose because the Republican party is not a viable party without ground troops. NY-23 was about making that point, and about demonstrating that the reverse is not true--that the leadership can easily be replaced if they insist on giving orders that undermine the very reason the troops are willing to fight.

If Obama loses in 2012, which I think is still very unlikely, the Democratic party will have a similar struggle. But not unless they lose the white-house. At the moment, they're more or less obliged to "dance with the one that brung 'em" even if they had second thoughts (which they do not).

7x57

7x57
11-05-2009, 9:12 AM
I think that's accurate. For a new candidate from a 3rd party, in so little time and in a district that while Republican is very liberal, to do so well is pretty impressive. When driopping out, had Scozzafava come out strongly for the conservative instead of the Democratic candidate he might have won.

You make a very important point. It's even stronger than that--Rush was right about Dede "screwing every RINO in the country." You do *not* endorse the other party without consequences, no matter what. She's finished as a Republican. But the consequences extend to the "squishy middle" as well. Every one of them is going to be under an extra cloud of suspicion that they're not simply politically different, but a potential traitor to the party.

Note that I am not here arguing that that is good or bad--simply that it is the way it is. By endorsing the Democrat Dede may have singlehandedly done more to ensure the Republicans are more conservative in 2010 than all the conservatives could have done, combined.

Oh, wait, our president promised to bring everyone together. Forget all that and start another round of Kum-Ba-Yah. :rolleyes:

7x57

dfletcher
11-05-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm interested in how the Republican leadership handles the prospect of Conservatives running in districts currently held by moderate to left of center Republicans. Surely a Conservative candidate cannibalizes Republican votes and helps the Democrat. Will the Republican party go after Conservative candidates with the intent of destroying the movement, or will they require those left of center Republicans to become more conservative?

I'd expect that Dede chatted with the Democrats in advance. Politicians in general don't give something upfront unless their going to get taken care of on the back end.

7x57
11-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Given that Dede already had a relationship not just with the Democratic party but also with the Acorn-backed Working Families Party, and her husband has union (and maybe SEIU) ties, there is no doubt in my mind that she has a political home with the left anytime she needs it. Whether she needed some assurances beyond those long-standing relationships is an interesting question.

Didn't I read that there is evidence the White House got involved in her endorsement? It's quite possible that all it took was a phone call to say "look, after this uprising you already know you have no future with the Republicans--you might as well cross over now."

In other words, if there was an arrangement it's hard to guess who might have initiated the conversation.

7x57

johnthomas
11-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Corzine spent 100 million dollars to be re-elected. Why? Because their all crooked and rich off the backs of working Americans.

dwtt
11-05-2009, 1:09 PM
McDonnell made a name for himself as our Atty. Gen. when he told Bloomberg that he'd lock him up in jail if he ever stepped into Virginia ever again and illegally purchased firearms. Now he's our Gov., and things should change for the better soon. We are trying to get campus carry, CCW in bars, and a few other RKBA items passed into law. Those things are nothing new around here. They were very narrowly defeated last year. Deeds was pro-gun only to a point. He would of favored closing down sales at gunshows from non FFLs as well as continuing LOC inside places that serve alcohol.

Yeah, we're dancing the happy dance here in VA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G8XH4WDxP4

We're happy for you out here in CA. Just don't let VA become like CA.

jphaxx
11-05-2009, 2:35 PM
The silver lining here is that people across the nation have already woken up to the agenda. Those two republicans are very much establishment types, but people are already rebuking obama. I'm not a huge fan of most the republicans out there (Lindsey Graham - SC) but the democratic party is by and large a bunch of criminals

ErikTheRed
11-05-2009, 8:45 PM
Listening to Steele on Hannity's radio show right now. Hannity opned the interview by telling Steele that if the GOP goes back to it's conservative roots, they'll win. He says last Tuesday was a prime example. Steele is claiming he has been pro-conservative-roots since the beginning of his chairmanship. Well, as much as I'd like to believe him, he CANNOT endorse RINO candidates like Scozzafava and then come back later and say "whoops". He is promising Hannity and America that neither he nor the GOP will make that mistake again, that they learned a very valuable lesson. Lets hope they did, 2010 is just around the corner.

rod
11-06-2009, 4:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G8XH4WDxP4

We're happy for you out here in CA. Just don't let VA become like CA.

Thanks. We're doing our best to ensure VA remains a 2A friendly state.