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stormy_clothing
11-03-2009, 3:00 PM
For Immediate Release
Nov. 3, 2009
www.atf.gov

SEARCH OF RESIDENCE RESULTS IN SEIZURE OF 48 FIREARMS AND THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION TRAFFICKED FROM ARIZONA
SAN DIEGO – The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), today announced the arrest of a La Mesa man for illegally purchasing firearms and ammunition in Arizona and transporting them into California. David F. Morgan, 55, was arrested after agents discovered he had been illegally trafficking numerous firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition. A total of 48 firearms and more than 200,000 rounds of various calibers of ammunition were seized in this investigation.

The seizure and arrest took place late Thursday when ATF agents served a search warrant at Morgan’s residence located in the 4300 block of Avon Dr., in La Mesa. The investigation revealed that Morgan falsified information and used a fictitious address to obtain a valid Arizona identification card. Morgan used that identification to purchase firearms in Arizona and then transport them to his true residence in California in violation of federal law.

“ATF will vigorously pursue any individual or group that illegally purchases and traffics firearms in violation of federal law,” said John A. Torres, special agent in charge of ATF’s Los Angeles Field Division. “This is a common scheme used by firearms traffickers, where they exploit less restrictive laws in neighboring states to purchase large numbers of firearms and then transport those firearms into California. We also see this same type of scenario employed by organizations trafficking firearms from the United States into Mexico,” added Torres.

Morgan has no known criminal history, and no motive for his activity has been uncovered thus far. The seized firearms include rifles, handguns and several firearms modified in violation of California law. This investigation is ongoing.

cntrolsguy
11-03-2009, 3:04 PM
Crap that's a lot of ammo!

jdberger
11-03-2009, 3:08 PM
If he's guilty, screw him.

That's the kind of guy the Antis hold up as a 'typical gun owner' when they seek to pass more restrictive legislation.

Cokebottle
11-03-2009, 3:09 PM
You can't buy ammo in AZ and bring it home?

Why the mention of ammo in the article? It's just a fluff statement.
Why didn't they say "48 guns, 200,000 rounds of ammo, and 48 bottles of Aquafina"?

Nate74
11-03-2009, 3:10 PM
With the ban on internet ammo just around the corner, a black market can't be too far behind. Stories like this may become more and more common.

JaMail
11-03-2009, 3:11 PM
DEATH TO AQUAFINA, i mean screw it, if ammo is that cheap in arizona, who wants to make an ammo run with me?

Wildhawk66
11-03-2009, 3:16 PM
With the ban on internet ammo just around the corner, a black market can't be too far behind. Stories like this may become more and more common.

I think your right, this may just be the start.

Also, legal or not, storing several tons (or more) of ammunition in a residential neighborhood is still not a good idea and is going to be noteworthy regardless of who writes the article.

Flintlock Tom
11-03-2009, 3:19 PM
Wouldn't "trafficking" involve buying and then selling? There's no mention of selling. I think they slipped that word in there because it has evil connotations.
If the guy was just expanding his collection, illegally, it's not "trafficking".
And, oh yeah, the ammo part is just fluff, too. Unless, of course, it's evil .50 BMG. Or armor piercing, explosive, incendiary, nukes.

Fjold
11-03-2009, 3:22 PM
I hope he wasn't a Calgunner

BroncoBob
11-03-2009, 3:24 PM
You can't buy ammo in AZ and bring it home?

Why the mention of ammo in the article? It's just a fluff statement.
Why didn't they say "48 guns, 200,000 rounds of ammo, and 48 bottles of Aquafina"?

My thoughts too............ WTF is up with that?

kf6tac
11-03-2009, 3:24 PM
You can't buy ammo in AZ and bring it home?

If you're using a falsified ID with a fictitious address, as this guy allegedly was, then probably not, no.

Why the mention of ammo in the article? It's just a fluff statement.
Why didn't they say "48 guns, 200,000 rounds of ammo, and 48 bottles of Aquafina"?

Not sure what exactly they're charging him with, but if he is actually being charged of trying to resell the stuff, trying to move too much ammo volume would probably trigger some requirement that he be a licensed dealer.

grammaton76
11-03-2009, 3:25 PM
I'd probably recognize this guy from the Del Mar gun shows.

There's plenty of folks who brag about their AZ licenses which they use for gun purchases... "No thanks, I'm gonna go buy that rifle in Arizona so I don't have to have that bullet button on it!" Some of them will claim residency just based on having a friend that they visit there once or twice a year. Kinda suspect that's not exactly kosher.

K1LLROI
11-03-2009, 3:27 PM
Wonder how long they were investigating the guy for?
Sounds like anyone doing runs out of state might be suspicious in ATF eyes.
The only real crime he did was BS about his address. Storing thousands of rounds is not illegal at all, a bit dangerous, but not illegal.

Aldemar
11-03-2009, 3:28 PM
He sure didn't bring all that ammo in one trip. Wonder how long they were looking at him.

dantodd
11-03-2009, 3:28 PM
There's plenty of folks who brag about their AZ licenses which they use for gun purchases...

Interesting point. This could be the U.S. v. Knucklehead case that creates "dual residency" case law. I hope it is all legit and the police are over reacting.

bomb_on_bus
11-03-2009, 3:30 PM
jeezus thats a lot of money!

even at .20 cents a round and an average of 300.00 for a decent gun thats still 50+k worth of merchandise. Either he had a good run on his 401K or hes selling some of that "miami snow" *sniff sniff*

Glock22Fan
11-03-2009, 3:30 PM
You can't buy ammo in AZ and bring it home?

If you're using a falsified ID with a fictitious address, as this guy allegedly was, then probably not, no.

You don't need ID, falsified or otherwise, to buy ammo in Az.

K1LLROI
11-03-2009, 3:34 PM
Something smells fishy...the story doesn't really make sense..
The false ID, YES. Everything else...FISHY...

HondaMasterTech
11-03-2009, 3:39 PM
Last I checked it wasn't illegal to move ammunition from one state to another.

CowboyShooter
11-03-2009, 3:42 PM
so I think seized guns are usually destroyed (or sold to Mexican drug cartels) but what about the ammo?

am thinking ATF could offset their budget deficit by selling that ammo....



first dibs. :D

Cokebottle
11-03-2009, 3:56 PM
If you're using a falsified ID with a fictitious address, as this guy allegedly was, then probably not, no.
But ID is not required to buy ammo.... even in the PRK (yet).
He used the falsified ID to purchase the guns, which certainly is a crime.
Not sure what exactly they're charging him with, but if he is actually being charged of trying to resell the stuff, trying to move too much ammo volume would probably trigger some requirement that he be a licensed dealer.
The importation of the guns is a crime.
Reselling the guns without going through an FFL is a crime.

As far as the ammo, outside of Los Angeles, that's still simply a commodity and the only crimes he could be charged with might be:
Failure to declare profits on his taxes
Operating a business without a license
and by extension, violation of zoning ordinances WRT retail sales from a residence, as well as insurance and storage requirements that may apply to an ammo reseller but not to a private citizen.

So they've got him on obtaining the guns illegally and importing them into the state (also a mention of rifles configured illegally, so they probably also have him on AW charges). He's already got both state and fed charges.
That's the meat and potatoes. The gravy will be locating any of his "customers" and pinning him on zoning and IRS violations.

Cokebottle
11-03-2009, 4:00 PM
Wonder how long they were investigating the guy for?
Sounds like anyone doing runs out of state might be suspicious in ATF eyes.
The only real crime he did was BS about his address. Storing thousands of rounds is not illegal at all, a bit dangerous, but not illegal.
Probably a routine audit of one of the gun shops he uses.
Noticed a lot of guns being purchased by one guy from different shops, decided to check on the address and found it was a BO box leased to a guy in California.

bigcalidave
11-03-2009, 4:00 PM
How the hell do they use trafficking in that article? 48 guns seized doesn't mean he imported 48 guns. Means he had 48 guns. 200K rounds isn't much, I have seen more than that in calgunner pictures. And he probably was a calgunner, since he seems to be a big time collector. Before you hate on the guy, I see people here talking about using their dual residency to buy guns out of state ALL THE TIME, without people calling them out for it. No criminal history, no illegal motives. And they say it is SIMILAR to the way guns are brought into mexico, which we also know is bull****. I hope people here realize what side of the fight this guy is on and start looking for a way to help him, not condemn him.

ALL it says is that he bought guns in AZ and brought them to his home in CA. And that he had " firearms modified in violation of CA law" we know how stupid those laws are, it could be anything.

Super Spy
11-03-2009, 4:14 PM
48 assorted firearms and buttloads of ammo....does that sound like anyone on Calguns? Of course we all have compliant firearms so that part of the story doesn't fit, the lots of guns and ammo though could be any number of people here, except I hope Calgunners are a little more inclined to follow the law.

Super Spy
11-03-2009, 4:16 PM
ALL it says is that he bought guns in AZ and brought them to his home in CA. And that he had " firearms modified in violation of CA law" we know how stupid those laws are, it could be anything.

Your right, he probably had one High Capacity Magazine purchased after 2000.....or maybe he forgot to put the US made puck into his bullet button equipped Saiga 12 and he had a 10 round mag in it failing to follow 922R....

Peter W Bush
11-03-2009, 4:26 PM
In an ideal USA, we could buy guns from any state and take them to any state. The law that he got arrested for breaking is bullsh*t.

Ding126
11-03-2009, 4:28 PM
Interesting point. This could be the U.S. v. Knucklehead case that creates "dual residency" case law. I hope it is all legit and the police are over reacting.

could also bring into the light how much ammo you can have in your home. I say less than 200k is acceptable:D

Ding126
11-03-2009, 4:30 PM
In an ideal USA, we could buy guns from any state and take them to any state. The law that he got arrested for breaking is bullsh*t.

+1
also where everyone could CCW in each state as well

bigcalidave
11-03-2009, 4:31 PM
In an ideal USA, we could buy guns from any state and take them to any state. The law that he got arrested for breaking is bullsh*t.

They are going to try and make him out to be an evil criminal supporting mexico with machine guns! Someone needs to take a stand and find out the truth down there, support this guy.

joe4702
11-03-2009, 4:33 PM
Citizens use to be able to buy guns in any state and even by direct mail order. The current interstate restrictions are no different than a law making it illegal for me to buy a book or newspaper outside my home state.

KillZone45
11-03-2009, 4:33 PM
Well the guy falsified information, that is a crime!!!! Why dont you guys see that?:confused:

stormy_clothing
11-03-2009, 4:35 PM
The big numbers are part of an ATF press release and only does them good regardless of the legality in there eyes.

Personally I too think this is all BS but he knowingly broke the law so them's the breaks.

Some day we might all be asked to vote on issues that affect us directly and then this will all change but when you hand other people a blank checkbook to create new laws and agencies, well here ya go!

LarryC
11-03-2009, 4:35 PM
As far as I'm concerned he is innocent until proven guilty (not that the press bothers with that little detail).

What I wonder is whether the shills Bloomberg hired for his gun show sting a few months back falsified their ID when purchasing firearms? Is the ATF coming down on them? (Actually I'm not being rhetorical, if anyone knows I would be interested.)

daves100
11-03-2009, 4:42 PM
Unless, of course, it's evil .50 BMG. .

50 cal BMG ammo is legal

kayaker
11-03-2009, 4:53 PM
Ever notice how whenever the cops get more than 2 guns the press calls it a "weapons cache"? I've seen 2 deer rifles, a .22 rifle and 2 pistols on a table and the press making the owner out to be a domestic terrorist. If that's all the criteria then I guess we might all be terrorists!

OlderThanDirt
11-03-2009, 5:03 PM
Ever notice how whenever the cops get more than 2 guns the press calls it a "weapons cache"? I've seen 2 deer rifles, a .22 rifle and 2 pistols on a table and the press making the owner out to be a domestic terrorist. If that's all the criteria then I guess we might all be terrorists!

Well it would look that way if you were a member of PITA or some other wacko.

bigstick61
11-03-2009, 5:20 PM
Citizens use to be able to buy guns in any state and even by direct mail order. The current interstate restrictions are no different than a law making it illegal for me to buy a book or newspaper outside my home state.

It's the sort of thing we should fight, nationally. And the only way I can see getting cases like that is via guys like this. He is doing nothing he does not have a right to do, just what certain laws which are of questionable constitutionality say he can't (supposing he is guilty). As far as I can tell, though, the NRA seems fine with most of the status quo now, including things like the GCA and NFA, so I don't know where that leaves us.

lumwilliam
11-03-2009, 5:57 PM
If he is as innocent as many of us think (hope) he is, and he's just being crucified by DOJ for BS technicalities, I hope someone starts a legal defense fund for this guy.

Adrien
11-03-2009, 7:01 PM
Maybe it was just a lot of .22LR

Adrien

CSACANNONEER
11-03-2009, 7:18 PM
, trying to move too much ammo volume would probably trigger some requirement that he be a licensed dealer.

Believe it or not, we are still free to do some things in this country (and state) without needing a license. Taking a dump and owning any quantity of ammo we want to are just two of them.

Unless, of course, it's evil .50 BMG. Or armor piercing, explosive, incendiary, nukes.

50BMG ammo and AP (in any rifle caliber) are perfectly legal in CA. Why would you think otherwise? The only ammo which isn't legal is any caliber tracer (except tracer shotshells are legal here!), API, Incindary, Spotter tracer, Roufuss (sp?) and AP pistol ammo. The only restrictions on 50BMG ammo are the same restrictions which are on any other rifle caliber. I have over 2000 50 cal. AP bullets waiting to be loaded. If it wasn't legal here, I sure as hell would not have them or be dumb enough to post anything about them.

Maybe it was just a lot of .22LR

Adrien

I'll take 200,000 rounds of .22lr right now! If you had been following the ammo market, you woud know that, right now, there is no such thing as "JUST" 200,000 rounds of .22lr.

Adrien
11-03-2009, 7:31 PM
I'll take 200,000 rounds of .22lr right now! If you had been following the ammo market, you woud know that, right now, there is no such thing as "JUST" 200,000 rounds of .22lr.

You do have a sense of humor, somewhere...right? ;)

Adrien

jdberger
11-03-2009, 7:33 PM
It's the sort of thing we should fight, nationally. And the only way I can see getting cases like that is via guys like this. He is doing nothing he does not have a right to do, just what certain laws which are of questionable constitutionality say he can't (supposing he is guilty). As far as I can tell, though, the NRA seems fine with most of the status quo now, including things like the GCA and NFA, so I don't know where that leaves us.

Absolutely. Attack the NFA and GCA now.

Before incorporation.

(see my sig....) :rolleyes:

CSACANNONEER
11-03-2009, 7:42 PM
You do have a sense of humor, somewhere...right? ;)

Adrien

Yea, it's just hard to read the tone of posts sometimes. 13 months ago, 200K of 22lr would have been easy to buy for less than $3500 and most gun people wouldn't have though twice about someone with that much .22lr.

Vectrexer
11-03-2009, 7:45 PM
200,000 rounds? Isn't that just a practice stash. Now 1 million rounds would give me something to raise and eye about. If it were in an apartment.

CSACANNONEER
11-03-2009, 7:53 PM
200,000 rounds? Isn't that just a practice stash. Now 1 million rounds would give me something to raise and eye about. If it were in an upstairs apartment.

fixed it.

bigstick61
11-03-2009, 8:08 PM
Absolutely. Attack the NFA and GCA now.

Before incorporation.

(see my sig....) :rolleyes:

NFA and GCA are Federal, not State laws, which makes incorporation irrelevant to them. At the Federal level, what we have left are things like 922(r), Brady, and the NFA and its amendments (like the GCA). The AWB and other things are gone now.

Quser.619
11-03-2009, 8:20 PM
But it's perfectly okay for illegal aliens to falsify documents to get ID's.

I'm more curious about the weapons,both types & how they were purchased - gun show, gun shop, etc.

I'm even more curious as to how he was caught... undercover operation at said gun show or shop.

Given the extreme reaction to this latest ammunition laws & the media's publication of "scary gun shows" where "scary gun freaks" buy illegal "scary guns" this might just be a sign that we all may face tighter scrunity while buying ammo or guns out-of-state. Great, they'll make it impossible for me to buy rnge ammo at a decent price w/o having to supply ID & a finger-print.

xxdabroxx
11-03-2009, 8:31 PM
I hope he wasn't a Calgunner

Chief, that you?

jdberger
11-03-2009, 8:41 PM
NFA and GCA are Federal, not State laws, which makes incorporation irrelevant to them. At the Federal level, what we have left are things like 922(r), Brady, and the NFA and its amendments (like the GCA). The AWB and other things are gone now.

Right - you're still counting on the hidden bird, though.

What's the level of scrutiny to decide Constitutionality? You ain't gonna find that in Heller. What are common arms?

Unscrewing a century of gun control laws can't be done in an instant. Only GOA and GOC think that they can.

Here's a complete list of their victories:


.

;)

Two Shots
11-03-2009, 9:00 PM
He made some serious Boo-Boo's.

The investigation revealed that Morgan falsified information and used a fictitious address to obtain a valid Arizona identification card.

Morgan has no known criminal history, and no motive for his activity has been uncovered thus far. The seized firearms include rifles, handguns and several firearms modified in violation of California law.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/prnewswire/2009/11/03/prnewswire200911031220PR_NEWS_USPR_____DC04405.htm l

bigstick61
11-03-2009, 9:35 PM
Right - you're still counting on the hidden bird, though.

What's the level of scrutiny to decide Constitutionality? You ain't gonna find that in Heller. What are common arms?

Unscrewing a century of gun control laws can't be done in an instant. Only GOA and GOC think that they can.

Here's a complete list of their victories:


.

;)

I haven't seen any indication though that the NRA is willing to do much about them, even if a better ruling than Heller is had. They seem to support the laws in place, at least according to their rhetoric and actions.

jdberger
11-03-2009, 9:39 PM
I haven't seen any indication though that the NRA is willing to do much about them, even if a better ruling than Heller is had. They seem to support the laws in place, at least according to their rhetoric and actions.

You're familiar with the MacDonald case, no?

...first you ask the girl if you can buy her a drink (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2356136&postcount=5).... :cool:

KylaGWolf
11-03-2009, 9:40 PM
OK I want to know how in the heck someone can store 200,000 rounds of ammo in their house in the first place and still have room to live. And anyone that reads the comments at the end and still wonder why we have so many stupid gun laws in this state. It is because of those people that leave those stupid comments on articles like this in the first place.

I do agree the guy broke the law in buying and transporting the guns here. That being said its stupid a gun that can be bought legally in any other state shouldn't be able to be bought here as well.

Cokebottle
11-03-2009, 9:49 PM
OK I want to know how in the heck someone can store 200,000 rounds of ammo in their house in the first place and still have room to live.
1000, MAYBE 2000rds of 9mm fits into one of the small 7.62 ammo boxes.

Hunt
11-03-2009, 10:34 PM
With the ban on internet ammo just around the corner, a black market can't be too far behind. Stories like this may become more and more common.

clear you rmind of the Statist mind control free your mind here
http://freetalklive.com/tunein.php

Hunt
11-03-2009, 10:37 PM
OK I want to know how in the heck someone can store 200,000 rounds of ammo in their house in the first place and still have room to live. And anyone that reads the comments at the end and still wonder why we have so many stupid gun laws in this state. It is because of those people that leave those stupid comments on articles like this in the first place.

I do agree the guy broke the law in buying and transporting the guns here. That being said its stupid a gun that can be bought legally in any other state shouldn't be able to be bought here as well.

uh well you better becareful you thinking sounds almost illegal.

bigcalidave
11-03-2009, 10:48 PM
OK I want to know how in the heck someone can store 200,000 rounds of ammo in their house in the first place and still have room to live. And anyone that reads the comments at the end and still wonder why we have so many stupid gun laws in this state. It is because of those people that leave those stupid comments on articles like this in the first place.

I do agree the guy broke the law in buying and transporting the guns here. That being said its stupid a gun that can be bought legally in any other state shouldn't be able to be bought here as well.

Really? 200K rounds of .223 would fit in a small closet.

Hell, this box is 2.5" x 3" x 4".. or a little smaller. That's a 100 rd pack of .223
That means that a 30" by 40" (10x10 square stack of 10,000rds) by 50" high is your 200K rounds. If we were talking .22lr? 5500 rounds fits in a very small box.

Brianguy
11-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Dang, I wish I had the money to buy that many firearms!!

Hunt
11-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Dang, I wish I had the money to buy that many firearms!!

he is probably a member of the teachers or prison guard union

B Strong
11-04-2009, 5:13 AM
There's different ways of looking at this, but if the accused was indeed using false ID, his *** is in a crack, trafficing allegations or no.

The amount of firearms and ammo doesn't mean anything to me - if he bought one gun on bad paper he's in a bad situation - bad paper is one of the prosecutions where the ATF batting average is 1000.

gazzavc
11-04-2009, 7:29 AM
The crux of the matter are the facts that:

1) Used a fictious address to buy firearms in AZ ( Not allowed by federal law)

2) In possesion of firearms that are banned by the state of CA (Stupid nanny state BS law )

The ammo and all the other allegations are bumf to make it sound far worse in the eyes of people reading the morning paper.

If this bloke has no record of any sort, and hasn't sold any of the firearms outside of the proper channels, I would be willing to bet that he will more than likely have his guns and ammo confiscated and be heavily fined.

Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like a bloke who just wanted stuff that's legal in 49 states but illegal here for his collection. Not that it excuses him or makes it right, but heck, how many of us would like something that we can't have here ??

Gaz

DTOM CA!
11-04-2009, 7:49 AM
You know that if he had automatic weapons or even those evil black rifles that there would be pictures and the article would be AW this and AW that. The fact that they ARE mentioning legal ammo makes me wonder how great there case against this guy really is ?

Blackhawk556
11-04-2009, 8:12 AM
For Immediate Release
Nov. 3, 2009
www.atf.gov

been uncovered thus far. The seized firearms include rifles, handguns and several firearms modified in violation of California law. This investigation is ongoing.

what do they mean by this?????

black rifles with bullet button?????

Blackhawk556
11-04-2009, 8:21 AM
They are going to try and make him out to be an evil criminal supporting mexico with machine guns! Someone needs to take a stand and find out the truth down there, support this guy.

he bought firearms using false information he is guilty of that.
every criminal starts out with a clean record remember that, he gave false info bought guns in a state where he couldn't so now he has to pay for his actions. the law might be crap but he knew he was playing with fire when he used false info.

Mitch
11-04-2009, 8:28 AM
what do they mean by this?????

black rifles with bullet button?????

Ever see those guys wandering around the gun show with that cool folding stock for the Mini-14 they just picked up? I always wondered WTF they thought they were going to do with those.

hvengel
11-04-2009, 10:48 AM
... If we were talking .22lr? 5500 rounds fits in a very small box.

A box about the size of a brick. 200K of .22lr would be very easy to fit in a medium sized cooler or tool box.

6172crew
11-04-2009, 11:19 AM
If I took what the ATF said as facts (I don't).

1. If he kept the firearms in AZ, and brought just the ammo home would he be in trouble? What do they mean by an illegal address? The address that I lived at in Carson City wasn't zoned for a home because it was on the airport yet I lived there for 2 years and had my ccw and nfa paperwork signed off at that residence.

It was only when I tried to vote that I found out about this deal.

I'd like to know more about the case before I throw him under the bus and take what the Feds say as facts.

Untamed1972
11-04-2009, 11:26 AM
If I took what the ATF said as facts (I don't).

1. If he kept the firearms in AZ, and brought just the ammo home would he be in trouble? What do they mean by an illegal address?

They mean something like he rented a P.O. Box at Mailbox Etc. to get a street address and used that as an address to get an AZ ID card which could then be used to buy guns in AZ.

What makes it illegal is that he's not actually a resident of AZ. So even if he left the guns in AZ it still would have been illegal because they were purchased with an illegally obtained ID.

As for the ammo part.....they're just throwing that in to make it sound really bad. There is nothing illegal about buying ammo in AZ and bringing it to CA.

Wildhawk66
11-04-2009, 11:28 AM
A box about the size of a brick. 200K of .22lr would be very easy to fit in a medium sized cooler or tool box.


If I remember right, their are 525 rounds of 22lr in a value box (apprx 4+ lbs per box) and they are packed in there pretty tight. So, that would be approximately 381 boxes to get to 200k rounds or approximatly 1500+ pounds of ammo.

What medium size cooler or tool box do you own that would hold at least 1500lbs and 381 "bricks" as you put it? Even in well packed 22lr value packs, 200,000 rounds would be somewhere around the size of a shipping pallet.

Im not saying having 200,000 rounds of ammo is illegal, or that it should be, but even if it was well packed boxes of only rimfire ammo (which it likely wasn't) it was still a heck of a large pile of ammo.

jaymz
11-04-2009, 11:40 AM
The investigation revealed that Morgan falsified information and used a fictitious address to obtain a valid Arizona identification card. Morgan used that identification to purchase firearms in Arizona and then transport them to his true residence in California in violation of federal law.

Depending on the details, this may be the only thing they can bust him on.


Morgan has no known criminal history, and no motive for his activity has been uncovered thus far. The seized firearms include rifles, handguns and several firearms modified in violation of California law. This investigation is ongoing.

No motive & no history screams personal collection to me. 48? BFD. And as far as the "firearms modified in violation of California law" - Who cares? The article says this is a Fed bust, not CA BoF. Wouldn't the Feds have to turn the illegal in CA weapons to BoF in order for any charges on those grounds to be prosecutable? Is prosecutable even a word?

zeleny
11-04-2009, 12:06 PM
The investigation revealed that Morgan falsified information and used a fictitious address to obtain a valid Arizona identification card. Morgan used that identification to purchase firearms in Arizona and then transport them to his true residence in California in violation of federal law.This revelation points to the key element in the offense. It never pays to lie in the furtherance of your goals, least of all when the lie is made on official record and addressed to government agents. U.S. law recognizes dual state residency, and places no restriction on the amount of time spent in the secondary residence, for the purpose of becoming eligible to buy firearms there. Looking for more leeway is asking for trouble.

bigcalidave
11-04-2009, 1:34 PM
I guess we wont know what he really did until his trial, or till he pops up here with a post :P I hope we see more info from this.

xrMike
11-04-2009, 2:24 PM
I'd like to know more about the case before I throw him under the bus and take what the Feds say as facts.Exactly. It wouldn't be the first time a 3-letter govt. agency had trumped up charges on somebody...

You'd think the ATF would have MUCH bigger fish to try than this guy, whose only apparent crimes were to: a) falsify his home address and; b) move 48 inanimate objects across a line on a map.

What really ticks me off is, I helped pay for them to do it!

IrishPirate
11-04-2009, 2:30 PM
Didn't read everyone's respone but.....Does anyone else think that it should become law/common practice that any law enforcement agency that confiscates firearms should then be able to keep for LE use or sell those firearms for profit to the LEA? It might not help financially that much, but these days every bit helps you know. I think it's better than them just sitting in an evidence locker. Obviously you would have to wait to sell weapons that are evidence in an on-going investigation, but once an outcome is determined and the criminal isn't going to be getting the guns back ever....sell 'em to the public!! same with ammo!!!!! they auction off cars, why not sell off guns too? does anyone know if there is a place where this does take place?

jdberger
11-04-2009, 2:30 PM
Exactly. It wouldn't be the first time a 3-letter govt. agency had trumped up charges on somebody...

You'd think the ATF would have MUCH bigger fish to try than this guy, whose only apparent crimes were to: a) falsify his home address and; b) move 48 inanimate objects across a line on a map.
What really ticks me off is, I helped pay for them to do it!

Sorry, but isn't this what ATF should be doing? This is a violation of Federal law. GCA is pretty specific when it comes to purchasing firearms out of state, no?

zeleny
11-04-2009, 2:32 PM
You'd think the ATF would have MUCH bigger fish to try than this guy, whose only apparent crimes were to: a) falsify his home address and; b) move 48 inanimate objects across a line on a map.Setting up a secondary residence out of state is as simple as leasing a time share. The time can be as little as one day that it takes to buy guns. At this rate, what could be the point in lying to get away with less than legal secondary residence, or supporting a liar in his failed attempt to get away with it?

Cokebottle
11-04-2009, 2:36 PM
Didn't read everyone's respone but.....Does anyone else think that it should become law/common practice that any law enforcement agency that confiscates firearms should then be able to keep for LE use or sell those firearms for profit to the LEA? It might not help financially that much, but these days every bit helps you know.
No, I don't....
As you said, it won't help much, and that would just provide them with an incentive for even more unlawful seizures, operating under the assumption that the majority of people will not fight them, or won't be able to afford legal defense and will plead out.

The last thing I want is for an LE agency to illegally "steal" my guns, then use my own guns against me the next time they seem to think I have too many guns and too much ammo.

97F1504RAD
11-04-2009, 2:49 PM
For Immediate Release
Nov. 3, 2009
www.atf.gov

SEARCH OF RESIDENCE RESULTS IN SEIZURE OF 48 FIREARMS AND THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION TRAFFICKED FROM ARIZONA
SAN DIEGO – The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), today announced the arrest of a La Mesa man for illegally purchasing firearms and ammunition in Arizona and transporting them into California. David F. Morgan, 55, was arrested after agents discovered he had been illegally trafficking numerous firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition. A total of 48 firearms and more than 200,000 rounds of various calibers of ammunition were seized in this investigation.

The seizure and arrest took place late Thursday when ATF agents served a search warrant at Morgan’s residence located in the 4300 block of Avon Dr., in La Mesa. The investigation revealed that Morgan falsified information and used a fictitious address to obtain a valid Arizona identification card. Morgan used that identification to purchase firearms in Arizona and then transport them to his true residence in California in violation of federal law.

“ATF will vigorously pursue any individual or group that illegally purchases and traffics firearms in violation of federal law,” said John A. Torres, special agent in charge of ATF’s Los Angeles Field Division. “This is a common scheme used by firearms traffickers, where they exploit less restrictive laws in neighboring states to purchase large numbers of firearms and then transport those firearms into California. We also see this same type of scenario employed by organizations trafficking firearms from the United States into Mexico,” added Torres.

Morgan has no known criminal history, and no motive for his activity has been uncovered thus far. The seized firearms include rifles, handguns and several firearms modified in violation of California law. This investigation is ongoing.

I want to know what the bold part means exactly?

dantodd
11-04-2009, 3:19 PM
Setting up a secondary residence out of state is as simple as leasing a time share. The time can be as little as one day that it takes to buy guns. At this rate, what could be the point in lying to get away with less than legal secondary residence, or supporting a liar in his failed attempt to get away with it?

Perhaps the accused is under the same misunderstanding of the law as you seem to be.

zeleny
11-04-2009, 3:46 PM
Perhaps the accused is under the same misunderstanding of the law as you seem to be.Thus spake BATF (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13):(B13) May a person who resides in one state and owns property in another state purchase a handgun in either state?

If a person maintains a home in 2 states and resides in both states for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular state, purchase a handgun in that state. But simply owning property in another state does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that state. As a wise man said, home is where you hang your head (http://books.google.com/books?id=iRmxmjZO1wAC&pg=PA28&#v=onepage&q=&f=false). If you have a better understanding of what qualifies as maintaining a home in 2 states and residing in both states for certain periods of the year, please share it.

Casey
11-04-2009, 4:36 PM
The key word in that article is "TRAFFICKED". My guess is this guy got caught out by ATF agents working to prove the story of all those guns that we here in the US "traffic " into Mexico.

It's buzzword BS but this guy is going down hard even if he was just collecting for his own use. I would bet that most all of the guns are legally configured and legally obtained. As mentioned the ammo was thrown in there for effect as it is not illegal to own or transport across state lines.

Bummer for this dummy though as it only takes one illegal purchase to paint him as a gun trafficking terrorist that is supplying Mexican Drug Cartel's all of their full auto AK47s and the ammo to go with them.

B Strong
11-04-2009, 4:41 PM
Thus spake BATF (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13):As a wise man said, home is where you hang your head (http://books.google.com/books?id=iRmxmjZO1wAC&pg=PA28&#v=onepage&q=&f=false). If you have a better understanding of what qualifies as maintaining a home in 2 states and residing in both states for certain periods of the year, please share it.


A lease agreement, property taxes, utility services in your name, vehicle registered, licensed and insured, all of those indicate actual residence in a given state.

A time share won't make the cut for NFA weapons, I'd bet that it would be the same for title 01 firearms.

Cokebottle
11-04-2009, 4:47 PM
A lease agreement, property taxes, utility services in your name, vehicle registered, licensed and insured, all of those indicate actual residence in a given state.

A time share won't make the cut for NFA weapons, I'd bet that it would be the same for title 01 firearms.
And whether or not a timeshare qualifies, renting a PO box certainly does not, even if you hang your "head" (should be "hat") there.

For purposes of LOC/CCW, a hotel room or camp site is considered your "residence", but that's not going to allow you to obtain a state ID.

zeleny
11-04-2009, 4:52 PM
A lease agreement, property taxes, utility services in your name, vehicle registered, licensed and insured, all of those indicate actual residence in a given state.

A time share won't make the cut for NFA weapons, I'd bet that it would be the same for title 01 firearms.If you have dual state residence, your vehicle must be registered, licensed, and insured in the state where you spend the majority of your time. Property taxes are moot, because the law cares about where you live, howsoever briefly, not where you own property. A lease agreement is essential, and may well include a provision for utilities being paid by your landlord. Beyond that, most states require a second proof of residence, which may be furnished via pay stubs, bank records, or what have you. Check the local regulations for specific details.

Hunt
11-04-2009, 7:28 PM
There's different ways of looking at this, but if the accused was indeed using false ID, his *** is in a crack, trafficing allegations or no.

The amount of firearms and ammo doesn't mean anything to me - if he bought one gun on bad paper he's in a bad situation - bad paper is one of the prosecutions where the ATF batting average is 1000.

the ATF is illegal

http://libertyconspiracy.com/

Hunt
11-04-2009, 7:32 PM
And whether or not a timeshare qualifies, renting a PO box certainly does not, even if you hang your "head" (should be "hat") there.

For purposes of LOC/CCW, a hotel room or camp site is considered your "residence", but that's not going to allow you to obtain a state ID.

as far as I am concerned the idea that the State has right to determine your residence status or issue or control approved id's is illegal. The States have overstepped their constitutional responsibilities are the new slave owners and you are their slave.

bohoki
11-04-2009, 8:06 PM
sheesh no wonder walmart is always out of 9mm i bet more than half the 200000 was cases of 22 bricks

Cokebottle
11-04-2009, 8:12 PM
as far as I am concerned the idea that the State has right to determine your residence status or issue or control approved id's is illegal. The States have overstepped their constitutional responsibilities are the new slave owners and you are their slave.
We can agree about that until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the laws that have been written and passed without successful court challenges, and that means that someone has to be a sacrificial lamb to get the case to court.

zeleny
11-04-2009, 9:33 PM
And whether or not a timeshare qualifies, renting a PO box certainly does not, even if you hang your "head" (should be "hat") there.

For purposes of LOC/CCW, a hotel room or camp site is considered your "residence", but that's not going to allow you to obtain a state ID.I don't know anyone who lives in a P.O. box. Lots of people live in hotels, and in principle it may be possible to establish part-time residence in a campsite. Check the state laws for specific details.

Untamed1972
11-04-2009, 9:44 PM
I was thinking....the way that press release is written is very sensationalized and misleading.

It says 48 guns were seized.

And he was busted because he's bought guns out of state with a false ID. It leads one to believe, the way it is worded, that he bought ALL 48 guns out of state, but it doesn't actuallt say that. For all we know 47 of them were legally purchased and one of them was bought out of state.

And the ammo references are just plain stupid because there is no violation in buying ammo out of state.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-04-2009, 9:51 PM
Lots of people live in hotels...

The first President Bush used The Houstonian Hotel as his official Texas address to maintain his Texas residency. The Bush's only rented a suite at the hotel for a few nights per year and stayed at their Maine residence more often. After they sold their Texas home they were planning to move to Maine, but ended up keeping Texas as their state of residence for tax purposes. Since they didn't own a house in Texas anymore they had to use the hotel's address.

zeleny
11-04-2009, 10:07 PM
The first President Bush used The Houstonian Hotel as his official Texas address to maintain his Texas residency. The Bush's only rented a suite at the hotel for a few nights per year and stayed at their Maine residence more often. After they sold their Texas home they were planning to move to Maine, but ended up keeping Texas as their state of residence for tax purposes. Since they didn't own a house in Texas anymore they had to use the hotel's address.I am renting part-time accommodations in a friend's house in New Mexico. We are bound by a formal lease, and I change my bank account address records each time I head down there. That's all it takes to establish residence under NM law. The Federal law is satisfied by satisfying the state residence regulations.

B Strong
11-05-2009, 11:16 AM
the ATF is illegal

http://libertyconspiracy.com/

Which means exactly -0- when they have you in court.

k1dude
11-05-2009, 11:55 AM
How did he find 200,000 rounds of ammo to buy? I'm having trouble finding a brick of .22.

xrMike
11-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Didn't read everyone's respone but.....Does anyone else think that it should become law/common practice that any law enforcement agency that confiscates firearms should then be able to keep for LE use or sell those firearms for profit to the LEA?

I don't like the concept for the same reasons that somebody already mentioned... It encourages arrest and confiscation of personal property for the wrong reasons.

Sorry, but isn't this what ATF should be doing? This is a violation of Federal law. GCA is pretty specific when it comes to purchasing firearms out of state, no?

Yes, but just because GCA made it illegal doesn't make it (the law) any less ridiculous, and ATF's enforcement against this guy a poor prioritization of tax money, so long as he was merely adding to his own personal collection and not engaged in any other criminal activity...

Think about it: Aren't there enough gang-bangers with select-fire AKs, and bikers/dopers/mexican drug cartel gun traffickers out there to keep these jack-booted thugs, er, consummate ATF professionals busy fighting legitimate, hard-core crime? Nah, it's so much easier and safer to go after low-hanging fruit like this poor slob...

I am renting part-time accommodations in a friend's house in New Mexico. We are bound by a formal lease, and I change my bank account address records each time I head down there. That's all it takes to establish residence under NM law. The Federal law is satisfied by satisfying the state residence regulations.

OK, so I'm following along so far, but what does all that really net you? How does the arrangement allow you to enjoy any additional freedoms when residing in California? Thanks.

jdberger
11-05-2009, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger
Sorry, but isn't this what ATF should be doing? This is a violation of Federal law. GCA is pretty specific when it comes to purchasing firearms out of state, no?

Yes, but just because GCA made it illegal doesn't make it (the law) any less ridiculous, and ATF's enforcement against this guy a poor prioritization of tax money, so long as he was merely adding to his own personal collection and not engaged in any other criminal activity...



Absolutely. Totally agree. Unfortunately, we often have to work within the framework of existing law, until we can change them (though some like pot smoking in California can be safely ignored).

I recall that the NRA had once mentioned that they were willing to do some horsetrading with the Bradys.

NRA would agree to mandatory instant background checks of all firearms transfers if Brady would agree to the dismantling of the State residency requirements for gun purchases.

Brady balked.

dustoff31
11-05-2009, 1:32 PM
Thus spake BATF (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13):As a wise man said, home is where you hang your head (http://books.google.com/books?id=iRmxmjZO1wAC&pg=PA28&#v=onepage&q=&f=false). If you have a better understanding of what qualifies as maintaining a home in 2 states and residing in both states for certain periods of the year, please share it.

While your quote from the BATFE is accurate, I think it would be wise to be able to show that they do indeed maintain a home in both states, and that they do indeed reside there for certain periods of the year. For example, my primary residence is in AZ, But if BATFE were to visit my CA house, they would see personal effects with my name on them in the house, my dirty socks in the hamper, mail addressed to me, etc. If they showed my picture to neighbors, they would be able to say "Oh yes, that's Dustoff, he owns the house next door. He and his wife are here for several days once a month or so, and they spend most of the summer here."

As mentioned, simply owning property does not qualify, anymore than merely having a lease agreement would.

zeleny
11-05-2009, 1:46 PM
OK, so I'm following along so far, but what does all that really net you? How does the arrangement allow you to enjoy any additional freedoms when residing in California? Thanks.I get to be a "Personal Handgun Importer" for off-list, non-C&R, non-AW handguns, for my own use. With my interest in the SIG P210 and the Manurhin MR73, its a must.

zeleny
11-05-2009, 1:49 PM
While your quote from the BATFE is accurate, I think it would be wise to be able to show that they do indeed maintain a home in both states, and that they do indeed reside there for certain periods of the year. For example, my primary residence is in AZ, But if BATFE were to visit my CA house, they would see personal effects with my name on them in the house, my dirty socks in the hamper, mail addressed to me, etc. If they showed my picture to neighbors, they would be able to say "Oh yes, that's Dustoff, he owns the house next door. He and his wife are here for several days once a month or so, and they spend most of the summer here."

As mentioned, simply owning property does not qualify, anymore than merely having a lease agreement would.Again, the law says nothing about property ownership. The predicate for being eligible under the Federal law to buy handguns in a secondary residence state is claiming residence there in accordance with the state law. Not lying to the authorities issuing your state ID is a good start. As stated by another poster, renting a hotel room a couple of times a year may suffice, provided that the hotel management will agree to receive your mail the year around.

geeknow
11-05-2009, 2:07 PM
Also, legal or not, storing several tons (or more) of ammunition in a residential neighborhood is still not a good idea and is going to be noteworthy regardless of who writes the article.

yeah, but to play devils advocate...it doesnt say what caliber was seized, etc...200k rounds really isnt all that much...its not like its tons (or even one ton)...heck, if .22, then really how much space can it take up? about a laundry basket full? even if it was all .308, you are only taking up a 30x48x48 space....

It sounds like the guy was doing bad things vis a vis conjuring up phony AZ DL to purchase guns and smuggle em to CA, but it doesnt sound like he did anything wrong with the ammo...unless he showed a bunk ID to purchase, or something like that..

dustoff31
11-05-2009, 2:19 PM
Again, the law says nothing about property ownership. The predicate for being eligible under the Federal law to buy handguns in a secondary residence state is claiming residence there in accordance with the state law. Not lying to the authorities issuing your state ID is a good start. As stated by another poster, renting a hotel room a couple of times a year may suffice, provided that the hotel management will agree to receive your mail the year around.

There is nothing that says one MUST OWN property. It does however, say that simply owning property does not meet the requirement.

Aside from that, I agree with you.

Carlosa
11-05-2009, 2:38 PM
We also see this same type of scenario employed by organizations trafficking firearms from the United States into Mexico,” added Torres.


This particular line in my opinion is the most oblivious example, of trying to tie two unrelated issues in an attempt to race panic and add shock to the story.
I sure most of you have heard the large amount of miss information that's been put out, in an attempt to demonize the American civilian gun market by stating that the drug cartels smuggle their firearms from Mexico. Arizona is one of the states that has been hit the hardest by this specif movement being that it's so close to the border and is more progressive regarding gun control laws.

I feel the next big strike against practitioners of the second amendment will come from those who are trying to blame our gun control policy's for the violence in Mexico.

I think the only way to avoid this, would be to lunch a campaign educating Americans about the large amount of corruption in Mexico, and the unlimited amount of resourced the cartels have.

most American's don't understand that the weapons being used by the Mexican drug cartels are not available in the civilian market, and reports like this exploit that ignorance in attempt to shape people's decisions.

Hunt
11-07-2009, 6:24 PM
We can agree about that until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the laws that have been written and passed without successful court challenges, and that means that someone has to be a sacrificial lamb to get the case to court.

FTW I joined the "Free State Project" we will make Liberty in our lifetime starting at the local level. There is NO way reform can come from either criminal party, the only way is a evolution of revolution in a geographic area.
The current paradigm has reached tipping point it will fall into a bankrupt morass of Statist, Fascism with a Socialist brand this is doomed.

KylaGWolf
11-07-2009, 8:13 PM
I am still trying to figure out where in the heck someone would store 200,000 rounds of ammo to begin with. This is another case that will give law abiding gun owners a bad name.

locktime
11-07-2009, 8:45 PM
Ammo doesn't take up much room.

840 rounds of 5.56 on strippers in bandoliers fits in a .50 cal ammo can

You would only need 238 .50 cal cans to have 200,000 rounds

The outside dimensions of .50 can are 12" x 6" x 7 1/2"

Stack them 10 high and 6 wide and 4 deep. That's only 6' high x 3' wide x 4' deep. Sounds like a small closet to me. Might want that closet on a concrete slab, however. Not sure many wood frame houses are engineered for an ammo locker.

Trendkill
11-07-2009, 9:33 PM
FTW I joined the "Free State Project" we will make Liberty in our lifetime starting at the local level. There is NO way reform can come from either criminal party, the only way is a evolution of revolution in a geographic area.
The current paradigm has reached tipping point it will fall into a bankrupt morass of Statist, Fascism with a Socialist brand this is doomed.

You're scary....





Jk

bubbapug1
11-07-2009, 9:51 PM
I hope he gets off...he isn't the problem its the laws of california that are the problem...

Why should a line on a map dictate what gun you can or cannot own??

Its criminal what california has done to the 2nd amendment.

Colt
11-07-2009, 10:12 PM
Wow, this is interesting. A few months ago, I had some email and phone discussions with a guy with same surname as suspect. Said he lived in AZ and had a son in CA with dual residency. We discussed purchasing a handgun he had for sale and it was not on CA list (seller advertised as a resident of CA). I was told that the pistol was the son's, who had dual residency, but the gun was currently in AZ. The explanation of who owned the gun, etc. sounded pretty hinky to me, so I backed off fast.

Don't know if it's the same guy, but either way, I'm glad I backed out...

slappomatt
11-07-2009, 10:13 PM
Wouldn't "trafficking" involve buying and then selling? There's no mention of selling. I think they slipped that word in there because it has evil connotations.
If the guy was just expanding his collection, illegally, it's not "trafficking".
And, oh yeah, the ammo part is just fluff, too. Unless, of course, it's evil .50 BMG. Or armor piercing, explosive, incendiary, nukes.

.50 BMG ammo isn't illegal. I don't believe ANY ammo is illegal. short of 40mm explosives.

KylaGWolf
11-08-2009, 4:15 PM
I never said there was anything wrong in wanting to have that much ammo just where in the heck would one put it all. In all honesty if I had the room here I am sure I would have a lot more than I do now. But for some reason I don't think my neighbors would feel the same way. :D

Cokebottle
11-08-2009, 4:36 PM
I never said there was anything wrong in wanting to have that much ammo just where in the heck would one put it all. In all honesty if I had the room here I am sure I would have a lot more than I do now. But for some reason I don't think my neighbors would feel the same way. :D
22lr, and handgun ammo?

I'll bet you could get >2,000 rounds of 9x19 into a 50 cal ammo box.
100 50 cal ammo boxes? It's a significant amount of space, but it would fit in a minivan or larger SUV.

Trendkill
11-08-2009, 5:49 PM
I never said there was anything wrong in wanting to have that much ammo just where in the heck would one put it all. In all honesty if I had the room here I am sure I would have a lot more than I do now. But for some reason I don't think my neighbors would feel the same way. :D

Ahhh....who gives a crap what the neighbors think..???

bigcalidave
11-11-2009, 5:32 PM
Anything new about this? was he one of us? All I see is the same crap news blurb about a "huge" weapons cache. 48 guns? 200k rounds? that's NOTHING!

gbp
11-11-2009, 5:59 PM
The key word in that article is "TRAFFICKED". My guess is this guy got caught out by ATF agents working to prove the story of all those guns that we here in the US "traffic " into Mexico.

TRAFFICKING is just a BS charge they hit him with for bringing the guns across the state line. They may have no knowledge of him selling anything. This happened to my son comming back from Vegas and was eventually thrown out by the DA
They will hit him with everything they can think of in hopes soemthing sticks.

That said it would be interesting to have an update when more info is available.

Pont
11-11-2009, 6:50 PM
as far as I am concerned the idea that the State has right to determine your residence status or issue or control approved id's is illegal. The States have overstepped their constitutional responsibilities are the new slave owners and you are their slave.

I'm sorry, but that's just silly.

California has every right to determine whether or not you qualify as a resident (the criteria must be objective, of course).

The state also has every right to control the issuance of **STATE-ISSUED** ID. Objective requirements, again.

Haysoos Christo! If those aren't States' Rights, then what the heck are?

Of course, California has no right to say, "you are not a Nevada resident." Only Nevada can say that.

And of course, none of that changes the stupidity of the gun laws in question.

Quser.619
11-11-2009, 7:20 PM
Tried looking for an update in the local media here & the ATF page, but couldn't find anything. Interesting that there is an Arizona Sheriff by the same name, but then again that name is pretty common.

If anyone else can find something, I'd be pretty interested as well

Cokebottle
11-11-2009, 7:28 PM
Interesting that there is an Arizona Sheriff by the same name, but then again that name is pretty common.
Would be very interesting if he has ties that is how he obtained AZ ID. Very unlikely though.

bigcalidave
11-11-2009, 10:27 PM
I know a david morgan as well, but not the same one.

It sucks how these terrible abuses happen and the stories drop off the face of the earth. Memories are short. I hope this guy does ok in the end.

Makes me want to go look up the guy busted at LAX picking up his friend to go shooting... Don't know what happened to him either.

liketoshoot
11-12-2009, 5:37 AM
I know a david morgan as well, but not the same one.

It sucks how these terrible abuses happen and the stories drop off the face of the earth. Memories are short. I hope this guy does ok in the end.

Makes me want to go look up the guy busted at LAX picking up his friend to go shooting... Don't know what happened to him either.

IIRC charges were droped.

rrr70
11-12-2009, 6:22 AM
But ID is not required to buy ammo.... even in the PRK (yet).


I guess you've never been to TargetMasters.

Adrien
11-12-2009, 6:40 AM
I guess you've never been to TargetMasters.

Some of the gun shops in Bakersfield always want your ID and information. Not only to verify age but they tend to keep records in their computers on your purchases, etc. *shrug*


Makes me want to go look up the guy busted at LAX picking up his friend to go shooting... Don't know what happened to him either.

Phil Dominguez! He was a staple in the paintball world for some time. That was pretty crazy!

Adrien

joelberg
11-12-2009, 7:09 AM
FTW I joined the "Free State Project" we will make Liberty in our lifetime starting at the local level. There is NO way reform can come from either criminal party, the only way is a evolution of revolution in a geographic area.
The current paradigm has reached tipping point it will fall into a bankrupt morass of Statist, Fascism with a Socialist brand this is doomed.

Cool. I've long considered joining as well, but I just can't bring myself to make the obligation by signing.

rrr70
11-12-2009, 7:34 AM
Some of the gun shops in Bakersfield always want your ID and information. Not only to verify age but they tend to keep records in their computers on your purchases, etc. *shrug*





I wanted to buy a shooting glasses and a earmuffs holder. I've been told that I need to fill up a form with ALL of my info(name, address, phone #, etc.)

Adrien
11-12-2009, 7:54 AM
I wanted to buy a shooting glasses and a earmuffs holder. I've been told that I need to fill up a form with ALL of my info(name, address, phone #, etc.)

Tinfoil hat aside, the one store usually sends me flyers and promotions in the mail when they have sales and stuff. However, I've pretty much seized business with them anyway. The other store where I'll still shop, my initial purchase and entry into their system was buying a Coyote Call and a hunting shirt. I've bought some ammunition from them, but not much. *shrug*

Adrien

rrr70
11-12-2009, 8:05 AM
Tinfoil hat aside, the one store usually sends me flyers and promotions in the mail when they have sales and stuff. However, I've pretty much seized business with them anyway. The other store where I'll still shop, my initial purchase and entry into their system was buying a Coyote Call and a hunting shirt. I've bought some ammunition from them, but not much. *shrug*

Adrien

It's not about tinfoil. It's about BS. I don't want anymore junk mail and e-mail that I'm already getting and I don't want out retarder goobment to have anymore info of what I am doing than what they already have. None of their damn business.:mad:

bombadillo
11-12-2009, 8:10 AM
Well, our ammo epidemic just ended :D

jdberger
11-12-2009, 9:19 AM
Anything new about this? was he one of us? All I see is the same crap news blurb about a "huge" weapons cache. 48 guns? 200k rounds? that's NOTHING!

Actually, it is "something". Let's not fool ourselves here.

50 guns might not be a lot, but they'll surely fill up an decent sized safe. Most folks I know (even Calgunners) don't have 50 guns. (to be fair, I do know a couple of people who have a few hundred...)

200 Thousand rounds is a LOT of ammuntion, even if you're buying it all as .22lr.

Just spitballin', but at $0.25 a round (historic .223 prices) that's about $50K in ammo. The discussion above pretty well covers the space that would consume.

jdberger
11-12-2009, 9:29 AM
I wanted to buy a shooting glasses and a earmuffs holder. I've been told that I need to fill up a form with ALL of my info(name, address, phone #, etc.)

Have a little fun with the form.

Bugs Bunny
3 Rabbithole Lane
Looney Tunes, CA 91111

MossbergMan
11-12-2009, 9:48 AM
Here's the deal with bringing guns into the PRK from out of state, if they will be here for more than 60 days. They must be registered with DoJ. You self register and pay $19 per handgun. Long guns must be CA compliant (No AW's). Possession of an unregistered handgun in PRK can be a felony. The residency issue may be the lynchpin of the case. If the defendant actually has property he uses in AZ (Free America) it's not going to stick. But if he's using a P.O. box or "ghost address"...deep kimsee I suspect.
I agree the 200K of ammo was thrown in to amplify the situation to the anti's and non-gun people. Non-issue, unless he possesed incendary (any caliber) or AP (handgun) ammunition. I'm sure I'd make headlines too if my house was raided...I'm a gun nut.