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ap3572001
11-03-2009, 8:39 AM
Form what I understand there are different laws/rules/regulations regarding transfering handguns in different states. I have a friend in NY City ( former Ca resident) . We were talking about different laws. He asked me " Is it against the law in CA to posses a handgun that is not in Your name? " What do You think would be the best answer?

troysland
11-03-2009, 8:46 AM
My understanding, could be wrong, is that the only law being broken about possesing a hundgun not in your name, is if you have a Felony conviction. I've read here that it is even lawful to sell a gun (properly through an FFL)that is not in your name. Any thoughts? Please chime in.

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 8:54 AM
For the purpose of my qustion we will assume that no parties involved have any convictions , that the pistol is not stolen and legal to own.

Flopper
11-03-2009, 8:59 AM
Prior to a certain year, handguns in CA weren't registered. So yes, you can possess a handgun not in your name.

In addition, it's legal for a handgun owner to lend a handgun to another person for 30 days at a time if the borrower has an HSC, but this can only be done "infrequently.

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 9:10 AM
I understand. The question I was asked by the New Yorker was " IS IT A CRIME IN CA TO POSSES A MODERN HANDGUN THAT IS NOT IN YOUR NAME?" I looked all over the penal code, and could not find anything that would provide an educated answer.

Fjold
11-03-2009, 9:34 AM
No it's not. As the poster above stated if you purchased a handgun through a face to face transaction before the current laws went into effect (1990 or something close to that) then it wouldn't be registered in your name. The same thing if you moved into California before the requirement to register handguns as an importer.

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 9:42 AM
No it's not. As the poster above stated if you purchased a handgun through a face to face transaction before the current laws went into effect (1990 or something close to that) then it wouldn't be registered in your name. The same thing if you moved into California before the requirement to register handguns as an importer.

So it is a crime for another gun owner to posses a pistol that was bought by someone else new last year in CA ? That was His the question.

dfletcher
11-03-2009, 10:17 AM
Does "NOT IN YOUR NAME" mean the handgun is not in anyone's name or in the name of someone other than the person currently in possession?

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 10:19 AM
Does "NOT IN YOUR NAME" mean the handgun is not in anyone's name or in the name of someone other than the person currently in possession?

in the name of someone other than the person currently in possession

Quiet
11-03-2009, 11:02 AM
" Is it against the law in CA to posses a handgun that is not in Your name? " What do You think would be the best answer?

In CA, it is not unlawful to own/possess an unregistered handgun.

However, possession of an unregistered handgun is a penalty enhancement for certain crimes.
For example,
... carrying a concealed handgun without a valid permit is a misdemeanor.
... carrying a concealed unregistered handgun without a valid permit is a felony.

It is legal to borrow a handgun from someone you know for up to 30 days.
So, it legal to possess a handgun (registered to someone else).

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 11:06 AM
In CA, it is not unlawful to own/possess an unregistered handgun.

However, possession of an unregistered handgun is a penalty enhancement for certain crimes.
For example,
... carrying a concealed handgun without a valid permit is a misdemeanor.
... carrying a concealed unregistered handgun without a valid permit is a felony.

It is legal to borrow a handgun from someone you know for up to 30 days.
So, it legal to possess a handgun (registered to someone else).

Thank You ! So the way that I understand this is that IT IS UNLAWFUL TO TRANSFER THE ONWERSHIP OF A HANDGUN W/O GOING TO FFL but IT IS NOT UNLAWFUL POSSES A HANDGUN THAT IS NOT IN YOUR NAME? Makes sense?

Fjold
11-03-2009, 11:09 AM
You can borrow a gun for up to 30 days at a time so you could have one in your possession while it is registered in someone's else's name.

ap3572001
11-03-2009, 11:13 AM
You can borrow a gun for up to 30 days at a time so you could have one in your possession while it is registered in someone's else's name.

So after 30 days or after a year of two, WHAT CRIME HAVE BEEN COMMITED? And by whom?

Flopper
11-03-2009, 3:39 PM
So after 30 days or after a year of two, WHAT CRIME HAVE BEEN COMMITED? And by whom?

The ability to lend a handgun for 30 days is basically an exception to the DROS requirement, so if the lending went beyond 30 days I would guess that both parties would be guilty of illegally transferring a firearm.

GrizzlyGuy
11-03-2009, 6:31 PM
FYI, if your friend plans to come out here and borrow someone else's handgun, and the lender will not always be in his presence, he needs to have a Handgun Safety Certificate per PC 12078.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12078.html

ap3572001
11-04-2009, 8:21 AM
I want to thank everyone for the info. However I still don't know how to answer the question. (???) Would an example help?

GrizzlyGuy
11-04-2009, 8:32 AM
However I still don't know how to answer the question. (???) Would an example help?

Q: "Is it against the law in CA to posses a handgun that is not in Your name?"

A: No it is not. There are two cases when that might occur, and both are legal:

Case 1: The handgun is unregistered. CA only has a requirement for registration when ownership of the the handgun changes. Older handguns that were acquired before the registration requirements were implemented need not be registered and can be legally possessed.

Case 2: The handgun is registered to someone else. If your possession of it is based on a lawful loan (i.e., the owner willingly lent it to you for 30 days or less, and you have a HSC if the owner will not be in your presence at all times) you are fine.

Note that it is NOT legal to take ownership of a handgun now, regardless of how that happens, without registering it.

Cokebottle
11-04-2009, 8:57 AM
I want to thank everyone for the info. However I still don't know how to answer the question. (???) Would an example help?
Yes, please give a specific hypothetical situation that we can sink our teeth into or look up.

As mentioned above, you cannot purchase or transfer a handgun without processing through DOJ.
You CAN loan a handgun for a period not to exceed 30 days provided the person borrowing the gun has an HSC. On day-31, the "loan" becomes an illegal transfer, whether it was a gift or not.

It's not really the possession that's illegal, it's the transfer that is illegal.
If I have a handgun that was given to me by my father in 1970, it is unregistered and legal for me to have.
If I sell or give it to someone else, it then has to be registered as a part of the transfer transaction.

You mentioned "modern" handgun. Technically, it is not possible to legally have possession of any handgun manufactured after 1991, because any handgun manufactured or transferred after that time would be subject to registration at the time of transfer.
The one exception would be a home-built pistol. It does not have to be registered, but it also cannot be sold or transferred without then being registered.


So really, the only exceptions to needing to have the gun registered in your name would be:
1 - A loan of no more than 30 days
2 - A gun that has been in your possession since prior to 1991
3 - A gun that you built yourself

Any other way for a gun to enter your possession would have required registration at the time of the transfer... but it would have been the transfer itself that was illegal, not mere possession.

It's a catch-22. Possession is not directly a crime (same for standard-capacity magazines), but there is no way to legally obtain them, as importation or offering for sale is illegal (again, with some exceptions).

Steve O
11-04-2009, 3:25 PM
No it's not. As the poster above stated if you purchased a handgun through a face to face transaction before the current laws went into effect (1990 or something close to that) then it wouldn't be registered in your name. The same thing if you moved into California before the requirement to register handguns as an importer.


Whats the penalty for failing to file a "new resident handgun registration" form?
I know a guy who moved form AZ a year ago, and he said he didn't know about the 90 days requirement.

Swatguy10_15
11-04-2009, 3:31 PM
To simply give an answer to the originating question. NO. But theres alot of greay area beyond the simple answer. Whos it registered to,do you have an HSC, is the weapon stolen or reported missing..yadda yadda..But unless I missed something, theres nothing PC wise forbidding one from possessing anothers handgun.

ap3572001
11-04-2009, 5:47 PM
To simply give an answer to the originating question. NO. But theres alot of greay area beyond the simple answer. Whos it registered to,do you have an HSC, is the weapon stolen or reported missing..yadda yadda..But unless I missed something, theres nothing PC wise forbidding one from possessing anothers handgun.

Thank You! That is what I was looking for. May be I should made the question more clear. ( My fault). There is no penal code section on the subject of a PERSON FOR WHOM ITS LAWFUL TO HAVE A HANDGUN HAVING TO ANSWER QUESTIONSABOUT HOW THEY GOT IT UNLESS ITS STOLEN, USED IN CRIME OR ILLEGAL BECAUSE OF ITS FEATURES.