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View Full Version : It Took Cops an Hour to Open a Victim's Door


5ohguy
11-02-2009, 3:45 PM
By Tony Shin and Steve Luke
NBCSanDiego.com

As a woman lay with multiple stab wounds inside her Rancho Bernardo apartment, San Diego police officers say it took more than an hour to provide backup in order to enter the home.

Jennifer Lee Jones was attacked while walking into her unit at the Overlook Apartments on Avenida Venusto on Oct. 22.

At the time of the attack, at 3:17 p.m., Jones was on her cell phone with her mother who lives in Ohio. The mother heard a man's voice, sounds of a struggle and a scream, according to police. Her mom immediately knew something horrible had happened. She initially tried to contact her daughter and called friends and then called 911, police said.

Here is the timeline of events according to San Diego police Capt. Jim Collins.

A call came to dispatchers at 4:44pm.

Two minutes later, at 4:46 p.m. the call went out to Northeastern Division officers, but came back to the dispatcher NUA or No Units Available.

At 4:52 p.m. an officer was located and officer arrived at the overlook apartment complex a minute later.

At 5:01 p.m., the officer surveyed the scene while waiting for backup, noticed the apartment door was shut and that there was no sign of blood or struggle.

Minutes later he notified dispatch and left the scene. Captain Collins said the officer should have investigated further. "Obviously in hindsight, it would have been better for him to pursue it,"Collins told NBC 7/39.

Dispatch then called the family back to relay the message. At that time Jones' father pleaded for police to go inside knowing something was wrong.

Dispatch called the officer back and he returned to the apartment at 5:20 p.m..

That officer got a key from the apartment manager and made entry into the unit at 5:47 p.m. and discovered Jones dead.

A second officer arrived at 5:48 p.m. - more than one hour after that inital 911 call.

Some Rancho Bernardo residents were outraged by what they call a lack of police response.

"We have to expect this unless we're willing to pay more to hire more police,"said Andrea Chandler.

But a family spokeman said Jennifer's parents feel differently about the police response. "They've walked this path with the Jones' every step of the way and we don't have anything negative to say about them at all,"said Ken Chernish.

Jones' next-door neighbor, Richard Saldivar was arrested and arraigned on murder charges Tuesday. He pleaded not guilty.

Saldivar, who lived right across from Jones, saw her coming home before the attack and ran inside to get his knife, according to prosecutors.

He lived with his wife and children and had been given an eviction notice the day of the attack. Some neighbors who didn't want to be identified said Saldivar was a very noisy neighbor, who often played loud music with his front door wide open.

Prosecutors wouldn't reveal a motive at the arraignment but said the victim's mother gave information to police that eventually led to Saldivar.

Just sickening. Many liberals in Sacramento and DC want to disarm the populace and put our trust in the police. The same police force that has no legal obligation to protect you.

I bet Ted Nugent would have something to say about this...

5ohguy
11-02-2009, 4:05 PM
It looks like her mom waited a while before contacting 911.

Bruce3
11-02-2009, 6:20 PM
wow thats sad. tough call for a police officer to force entry on a house just based on a phone call. believe it or not people have phoned fake hostage situations to have their unsuspecting victim's homes raided by swat. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/29787673/the_boy_who_heard_too_much/print
she might of had a chance if she was concealed carrying.

thefifthspeed
11-02-2009, 6:28 PM
I can't blame the police here without knowling all of the info.

The mom called here daughter and her friends before calling police...an hour and a half later. Without knowing what was said in the call she could have said something like can you swing by and check on my daughter, something might be wrong. If that is the case the cop did the right thing. He checked out the scene and didn't see anything out of the blue, probably knocked on the door, peaked inside some windows, heard nothing, and reported his findings to dispatch. If the call came in as my daughter is being killed right now, the cop would have justified breaking the door down.
Think of the other side of the coin. If the cop broke the door down and the call ended up being an over reaction then the person who had their door broken would be irate over the cop's actions.

Moral of the story is everyone should have the means to protect themselves and not have to rely on anybody else.

gdun
11-02-2009, 6:57 PM
i can't imagine that the girl was alive after an hour and a half. She must of been gone by the time the call was even made

locosway
11-02-2009, 7:24 PM
What's the original link?

Edit: Nevermind, I found it.

Purple K
11-02-2009, 7:37 PM
When seconds count, the cops are far away!

Seesm
11-02-2009, 9:21 PM
Armed informed citizens make not so easy targets.... RIP lady.

tyrist
11-02-2009, 9:43 PM
Generally speaking it takes more than just a phone call for a welfare check to force entry. Since it was so long before the mother called police I would imagine she downplayed the incident too dispatch.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
11-02-2009, 9:54 PM
I can't blame the police here without knowling all of the info.

The mom called here daughter and her friends before calling police...an hour and a half later. Without knowing what was said in the call she could have said something like can you swing by and check on my daughter, something might be wrong. If that is the case the cop did the right thing. He checked out the scene and didn't see anything out of the blue, probably knocked on the door, peaked inside some windows, heard nothing, and reported his findings to dispatch. If the call came in as my daughter is being killed right now, the cop would have justified breaking the door down.
Think of the other side of the coin. If the cop broke the door down and the call ended up being an over reaction then the person who had their door broken would be irate over the cop's actions.

Moral of the story is everyone should have the means to protect themselves and not have to rely on anybody else.

Well said.

locosway
11-02-2009, 9:56 PM
Even if you wanted to blame the cops, you couldn't.. ;)

Purple K
11-03-2009, 3:59 PM
Even if you wanted to blame the cops, you couldn't.. ;)

I don't blame the Cops, I blame "The System" for what it's become. A system where we have to reduce Police and Firefighters so that we can fund welfare. We, as a nation, have allowed our priorities to become skewed. You should never get put on hold when you call 911 to report an emergency! The emergency won't wait!! Heart attacks, prowlers, home invasions, fires and traffic accidents just won't wait!!! There should be enough officers on the street that they can prevent crime rather than running from place to place taking reports. I have two brothers and a sister-in-law that are retired LEO's, I've heard the "shop talk". I respect what LEO's have to do and all that they put up with. They're just too few and far between. When I say "When seconds count the Cops are minutes away", it's not a dig at Cops individually, it's a did at our system.

locosway
11-03-2009, 4:15 PM
The problem is not reduced amounts of police. The problem is we ever let them be the sole provider of help to us. We, as a people, should have the right and ability to protect ourselves at all times. So, yes, it's about the system.

Also, how do we "prevent" crimes without really restricting peoples rights? I understand that someone walking down the street with C4 on their chest might be trying to commit a crime, but is someone just walking down the street at 2am trying to also commit a crime?

Prevention is a touchy word, and should be taken seriously. Many laws have been passed in the name of prevention which completely ruin our rights of being free people.

stormy_clothing
11-03-2009, 4:28 PM
I don't like what it going on here, a person is dead.

Kick the damn door in - period. If it's found out that the mom made a false report I am sure she would much rather pay for what ever BS cost the police can come up with for dispatching an on duty officer than to wonder if the call she made explaining that she heard her daughter scream then a struggle and then no contact might have saved her life handled differently.

Everything else is not even worth mentioning, a person is dead who might not have been if the officer had responded like a human being.

Stupid 1 off obscure examples of something that happened a long time ago in a state far far away are super lame.

Purple K
11-03-2009, 4:52 PM
The problem is not reduced amounts of police. The problem is we ever let them be the sole provider of help to us. We, as a people, should have the right and ability to protect ourselves at all times. So, yes, it's about the system.

Also, how do we "prevent" crimes without really restricting peoples rights? I understand that someone walking down the street with C4 on their chest might be trying to commit a crime, but is someone just walking down the street at 2am trying to also commit a crime?

Prevention is a touchy word, and should be taken seriously. Many laws have been passed in the name of prevention which completely ruin our rights of being free people.

Just having a prominent presence on the street has a deterent effect. That's what I meant by prevention. A large, strong and very visible street presence will deter crime.

bwiese
11-03-2009, 4:57 PM
Generally speaking it takes more than just a phone call for a welfare check to force entry. Since it was so long before the mother called police I would imagine she downplayed the incident too dispatch.

Yep, it took some time/convining for police to enter a coworker's home;
we had lost contact with him for several days. The first welfare checks were knock at door/peek at anything in window.

Turns out he'd died that weekend from a massive heart attack. Wasn't until employer and relatives all together agreed something was odd that they moved.

Super Spy
11-03-2009, 5:24 PM
Sad, but when you look at the timeline you can't blame the cops for the delay 1 1/2 hours between incident and dispatch call? If that was your kid wouldn't you be jumping up and down and telling them enter the premises NOW? If you were in the area wouldn't you high tail it over there? Most kids leave spare keys with local parents anyway....if not kick the door in, I'd gladly shell out the cost of the new door if I was wrong and overreacted...

locosway
11-03-2009, 5:38 PM
Just having a prominent presence on the street has a deterent effect. That's what I meant by prevention. A large, strong and very visible street presence will deter crime.

So does an armed public...

Greg-Dawg
11-03-2009, 6:03 PM
Three letters could've, at least, given her a fighting chance: CCW.

Purple K
11-03-2009, 6:10 PM
So does an armed public...

Or both!

locosway
11-03-2009, 6:16 PM
Or both!

Yes, or both, however, I feel that an armed public would reduce our need for as many LEO's to patrol the streets.

We'll never remove the human nature for violence from everyone. We'll never be able to preempt every crime. I'd rather see less LEO's and more armed citizens.