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Merle
11-02-2009, 9:16 AM
Isn't a person's auto considered "private property"?

As private property, why can't you LOC, CCW and avoid the issues of GFSZ?

My car's seat is "private property" so I should be able to carry "on" my car's seat.

There's wording about being "on" private property, but to people who park an RV on the side of the road (e.g. camping at a public facility), are they no longer entailed to the same rights as people as at home? How about the folks who live in housing projects?

thenaz11c
11-02-2009, 9:48 AM
When the law is talking about property in regardes to having a firearm they are refering to "Real" property ie land. The issue with vehicles is their mobility. Your car will never get you the same rights and level of pricacy as your home. An RV can be a different issue, but it depends on it current configuartion. If it is parked and hooked up to utilities and not able to just drive away it gets the rights of a home.

sfwdiy
11-02-2009, 9:48 AM
The law refers to "Property" in the sense of land which you own or have the legal right to occupy and control, such as a house or a leased office space.

Your car is a possession, it is not property.

--B

Glock22Fan
11-02-2009, 9:50 AM
Isn't a person's auto considered "private property"?

As private property, why can't you LOC, CCW and avoid the issues of GFSZ?

My car's seat is "private property" so I should be able to carry "on" my car's seat.

There's wording about being "on" private property, but to people who park an RV on the side of the road (e.g. camping at a public facility), are they no longer entailed to the same rights as people as at home? How about the folks who live in housing projects?


I have a beach towel that is my private property. Are you suggesting that if I go into, say, a park (or a beach, or even the sidewalk) and sit on it, then I should be OK to carry a loaded, concealed firearm?

What you can and cannot do is pretty well defined by the penal code and by case law. An RV in a proper camping spot may be considered as your home for carrying purposes, but there can be state and federal rules applying to that campground that still make it illegal. An RV on the street, or a layby, is a vehicle and not considered to be your home.

As is said above (posted while I was typing this), private property is generally real property as opposed to possessions. But is is more complex than that as private property can still be a public place. So, you should not LOC in your front yard unless surrounded by a locked fence (over simplification perhaps, but broadly illustrative)

You need to do a lot more research. At the moment, you sound totally uninformed (note, that isn't an insult, just an observation).

redcliff
11-02-2009, 10:31 AM
How do motorhomes fit into this question? :)

Afterall, I can sit in the back or in the passengers seat with an open container while someone else drives and its perfectly legal.

Flopper
11-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Several other states agree since they specifically allow concealing/carrying of a firearm in a vehicle without a CCW, but CA does not.

If the RV is a temporary residence, you can carry loaded (concealed or open).

The question regarding housing projects (and any other sort of leasing situation) is irrelevant for two reasons:
1. CA allows residents to carry loaded in the manner they choose in their residence. Ownership of the actual property is not important.

2. Case law says that public housing projects cannot ban the keeping and bearing of firearms.

Glock22Fan
11-02-2009, 11:32 AM
How do motorhomes fit into this question? :)

Afterall, I can sit in the back or in the passengers seat with an open container while someone else drives and its perfectly legal.

An open container of what?

bodger
11-02-2009, 11:46 AM
How do motorhomes fit into this question? :)

Afterall, I can sit in the back or in the passengers seat with an open container while someone else drives and its perfectly legal.


Container of alcohol open in a motorhome? Is that legal?

I guess it's like the limo law.

Aldemar
11-02-2009, 12:01 PM
How do motorhomes fit into this question? :)

Afterall, I can sit in the back or in the passengers seat with an open container while someone else drives and its perfectly legal.

You CANNOT have an open container when sitting in the passanger seat. Only in an area not available to the driver. If my wife and friends want to drink booze while I am driving, they need to be in the eating area or the couch in the middle of the coach.

Merle
11-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Thanks everyone for the reference to "real" property.

However, doesn't "private property" assume the opposite is "public property", and not "personal property"?

Why state "private property" when the law simply could have been written as "real property" which would include things like land, motorhomes attached to the land, garages, etc. Basically everything that falls under "real property".

I wasn't looking at the difference in domicile versus vehicle, just whether a vehicle is a) classified as private property and b) can not that designation be used to secure gun rights?

Glock22Fan
11-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Thanks everyone for the reference to "real" property.

However, doesn't "private property" assume the opposite is "public property", and not "personal property"?

Why state "private property" when the law simply could have been written as "real property" which would include things like land, motorhomes attached to the land, garages, etc. Basically everything that falls under "real property".

I wasn't looking at the difference in domicile versus vehicle, just whether a vehicle is a) classified as private property and b) can not that designation be used to secure gun rights?

In a word, No.

It's way more complex than that, and (as I said earlier) you have a lot more learning to do.

Even the law can get itself into knots when discussing this issue - if you don't believe me, ask Theseus about his court experiences, or look up the thread about the battle he is fighting. Also look up "People v. Overturf" re. when private property is not simply private property.

redcliff
11-02-2009, 3:04 PM
You CANNOT have an open container when sitting in the passanger seat. Only in an area not available to the driver. If my wife and friends want to drink booze while I am driving, they need to be in the eating area or the couch in the middle of the coach.

Ahh thanks for the heads-up Aldermar, I'll be sure to sit in the back next time I pop a cold one :)