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Purple K
11-01-2009, 5:20 PM
How close does the relationship have to be? Is Uncle to niece or Grandmother to granddaughter a qualifying relationship? Is there a government code that specifically lays this out? Thanks in advance. :confused:

dantodd
11-01-2009, 5:25 PM
has to be in direct lineage. Grandparent or parent but not uncles, aunts siblings etc.

Purple K
11-01-2009, 5:27 PM
So Grandparent to Grandchild is O.K.?

dantodd
11-01-2009, 5:35 PM
absolutely. You can find the form on the California Attorney General's website. It's called the Operation of Law form.

ETA: Here is a link to the form: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

ke6guj
11-01-2009, 5:36 PM
yes.

12078(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

Doheny
11-01-2009, 5:37 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

From page 37:

Firearms obtained through intestate succession or by bequest, sales or transfers between “immediate family” members. Immediate family means parent and child, and grandparent and grandchild. (NOTE: Individuals who receive a concealable firearm in this manner must obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate. The acquisition of a handgun in this manner must be reported within 30 days to the Department of Justice on forms provided by the Department of Justice.)
(Penal Code §§ 12078(i)(1)(B), 12078(c)(2)(A).)Here's the form if you need it: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

Purple K
11-01-2009, 5:43 PM
:drool5: Thank You!

D_fens
11-01-2009, 5:45 PM
So basically, get immediate family members to transfer it to each other till you get to the designated recipient, if you can't otherwise transfer the firearm directly via IFT. I.e. give it to your dad, who would then give it to one of your siblings. This goes against the spirit, but not the letter of the law. :D

mmartin
11-01-2009, 6:09 PM
transfer between spouses is also included in IFT, although not called out in this code because it is covered under family law code.
megan

Mssr. Eleganté
11-01-2009, 6:59 PM
So basically, get immediate family members to transfer it to each other till you get to the designated recipient, if you can't otherwise transfer the firearm directly via IFT. I.e. give it to your dad, who would then give it to one of your siblings. This goes against the spirit, but not the letter of the law. :D

Be careful. It actually does go against the letter of the law if you transfer this way in order to avoid DROS'ing the gun to the final recipient.

CPC 12072(a)...

(4) No person, corporation, or dealer shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to any person whom he or she knows or has cause to believe is not the actual purchaser or transferee of the firearm, or to any person who is not the person actually being loaned the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:
(A) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).
(B) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the requirements of any exemption to the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).
(5) No person, corporation, or dealer shall acquire a firearm for the purpose of selling, transferring, or loaning the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:
(A) In the case of a dealer, intent to violate subdivision (b) or (c).
(B) In any other case, intent to avoid either of the following:
(i) The provisions of subdivision (d).
(ii) The requirements of any exemption to the provisions of subdivision (d).

transfer between spouses is also included in IFT, although not called out in this code because it is covered under family law code.

Technically, transfers between spouses are not IFT's. They are "Operations of Law". But yeah, the same form is used to report IFT's and Operations of Law.

ricochet
11-01-2009, 7:25 PM
Would I be able to buy a Makrov P64 semi pistol (not on gun roster) for my dad in AZ (<10 round mag) and have him pass it too me (IFT)when he's done w/it ?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-01-2009, 7:40 PM
Would I be able to buy a Makrov P64 semi pistol (not on gun roster) for my dad in AZ (<10 round mag) and have him pass it too me (IFT)when he's done w/it ?

I you want to buy a handgun for your father who is a resident of another State then the transfer would have to go through an FFL in his State. If, later on, your father wanted to give the same handgun to you, the transfer would have to go through an FFL in your State of residence. There is a way for California licensed dealers to process an off roster handgun being gifted from an out of state "family" member. Your father should include a letter with the handgun when he ships it to your local FFL stating that the handgun is a gift from him to you and the FFL can then enter the "family gift" exemption code into the DROS computer to show that the transfer is roster exempt. Not all FFL's in California know how to do this though, so you need to ask your local FFL first.

ricochet
11-01-2009, 7:51 PM
Forgot to mention he has CCW. The gun's only $170, I'd sure like to avoid pay FFL transfers tat cost more than the gun (Mountain View Gun Vault charges $75 transfer+25 DROS)

D_fens
11-01-2009, 7:52 PM
Be careful. It actually does go against the letter of the law if you transfer this way in order to avoid DROS'ing the gun to the final recipient.


I had merely heard of this method, and wanted to share it, so thanks for the clarification! :)

Mssr. Eleganté
11-01-2009, 8:16 PM
Forgot to mention he has CCW. The gun's only $170, I'd sure like to avoid pay FFL transfers tat cost more than the gun (Mountain View Gun Vault charges $75 transfer+25 DROS)

Yeah, it's sucks to eat the FFL fees on such a cheap gun, but you are going to have to eat the FFL fees in both Arizona (probably cheap) and in California ($60 to $100) in order to do the transfers legally. If your dad finds the gun for sale at an Arizona gun shop or from a private party Arizona resident then you would only have to deal with the California FFL transfer fees. An Arizona FFL isn't going to charge your dad an extra fee to buy from his inventory, and an Arizona resident private party sale doesn't involve an FFL or fees at all.

TaxAnnihilator
11-01-2009, 8:26 PM
Yea to Calgun'rs citing sources! Spread the Truth!

gemini1
11-01-2009, 8:45 PM
What about if:
My mom goes to Florida, stayed at my sis for some R&R. My sis then gave her one of her pistol.
Can my mom bring the pistol back to Cali after her vacation? is she required to get the handgun certificate? And doe she need to file any DOJ form for ownership of said pistol?

TaxAnnihilator
11-01-2009, 8:50 PM
Number 5 http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#20

Mssr. Eleganté
11-01-2009, 8:51 PM
What about if:
My mom goes to Florida, stayed at my sis for some R&R. My sis then gave her one of her pistol.
Can my mom bring the pistol back to Cali after her vacation? is she required to get the handgun certificate? And doe she need to file any DOJ form for ownership of said pistol?

Since your mom and your sister are residents of two different States, the transfer of the handgun would have to be processed through an FFL in your mom's State of residence.

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful --
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

ke6guj
11-01-2009, 8:53 PM
What about if:
My mom goes to Florida, stayed at my sis for some R&R. My sis then gave her one of her pistol.
Can my mom bring the pistol back to Cali after her vacation? is she required to get the handgun certificate? And doe she need to file any DOJ form for ownership of said pistol?
If mom is not a FL resident, then it would be a violation of federal law for your FL-resident sis to give her a firearm. It would also be a federal law for you mom to bring the firearm back to CA.

Your sis would need to ship it to a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer to your mom.


Number 5 http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#20too bad that to that would cause at least two federal violations. There is no federal intrafamily exemption to the need to use an FFL in the recipient's state.

TaxAnnihilator
11-01-2009, 8:57 PM
I just answered the form question, sorry.

If mom is not a FL resident, then it would be a violation of federal law for your FL-resident sis to give her a firearm. It would also be a federal law for you mom to bring the firearm back to CA.

Your sis would need to ship it to a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer to your mom.


too bad that to that would cause at least two federal violations. There is no federal intrafamily exemption to the need to use an FFL in the recipient's state.

ke6guj
11-01-2009, 8:59 PM
I just answered the form question, sorry.

Thats why you have to be carefull with what advise you take from CADOJ. They will give you advise with regards to how it pertains to CA law, not taking into effect federal law. A person reading that FAQ could become a federal felon by following it.


Theses are the federal laws that apply in this situation. Sec. 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive
in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other
business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm
purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State:
Provided, That the provisions of this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by
bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of
residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that
State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such
firearm in that State,
(b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or
shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the
transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at
the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of
Sec. 478.96(c) and
(c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm
obtained in conformity with the provisions of Sec. Sec. 478.30 and
478.97.

Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or
deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows
or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That
the provisions of this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of
a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is
permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of
his residence; and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person
for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
478.29 says that you can't import into your state any firearm that you get from a non-licensee of another state.

478.30 says that a non-licensee cannot sell transfer (sell, give, lend, etc) a firearm to a non-licensee of another state.

gemini1
11-02-2009, 2:43 PM
Thank you all for the info. So in this case, my mom would then need to take/pass the gun safety certificate before my sis could even ship said pistol to a Cali FFL, right?

ke6guj
11-02-2009, 2:59 PM
yes, for mom to receive a handgun in just about any manner, she needs to have an HSC.

gemini1
11-02-2009, 3:24 PM
Thanks ke6guj

DarkHorse
11-02-2009, 4:37 PM
:drool5: Thank You!

What's Gramps gonna let you have?

Theseus
11-02-2009, 7:55 PM
I am positive I know the answer. . . but I recently was handed some information that makes me question what I thought to be true.

I bought a rifle to give to my daughter. I was under the impression that I only need to fill the intra-familial transfer form for handguns. This was supported by the fact that it asks for information on handguns and not long arms.

To give the rifle to my 6 y/o daughter. . . and make it hers. . . is there anything I am required to file with the government?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-02-2009, 8:05 PM
To give the rifle to my 6 y/o daughter. . . and make it hers. . . is there anything I am required to file with the government?

Nope. There is nothing you need to do. It is a private matter between you and your daughter. Long guns are not registered with the Feds or with California government and California does not require any kind of paperwork or notification for father to daughter long gun transfers. I'm assuming here that you and she are both residents of the same State since she is only 6 years old. :)

Cokebottle
11-02-2009, 8:11 PM
transfer between spouses is also included in IFT, although not called out in this code because it is covered under family law code.
megan
I was just going to ask about this, as I am planning on arming my wife, but we're still up in the air as to whether she's going to "inherit" my XD when I upgrade (assuming she can learn to rack it), or just get her own.

Also, a question on the HSC.
Will a gun shop only issue this in conjunction with the sale of a handgun?
I'd like to get my wife an HSC just so she has it.

Theseus
11-02-2009, 8:15 PM
Thats what I thought. . . Guy at Turners made me think twice about it though.

It will be her 1st. Got her the single shot bolt action Crickett. Since I might lose my right to keep and bear I need to give it to her. . hehe. . .

Theseus
11-02-2009, 8:16 PM
I was just going to ask about this, as I am planning on arming my wife, but we're still up in the air as to whether she's going to "inherit" my XD when I upgrade (assuming she can learn to rack it), or just get her own.

Also, a question on the HSC.
Will a gun shop only issue this in conjunction with the sale of a handgun?
I'd like to get my wife an HSC just so she has it.

You can get an HSC anytime you want. Not related to a purchase. . . Believe it is about $25?

Mssr. Eleganté
11-02-2009, 8:19 PM
Also, a question on the HSC.
Will a gun shop only issue this in conjunction with the sale of a handgun?
I'd like to get my wife an HSC just so she has it.

Some gunshops will only let you take the HSC test from them if you are buying a handgun from them. This was particularly true a few months ago when there was a shortage of the actual tests and Dealers were saving them for real customers. My girlfriend took the HSC test at a gunshop even though she wasn't buying that day, "just so she could be ready to buy from them." :)

Do you have any other questions about transferring one of your handguns to your wife? I couldn't tell from the way your post is worded.

Cokebottle
11-02-2009, 8:19 PM
It will be her 1st. Got her the single shot bolt action Crickett. Since I might lose my right to keep and bear I need to give it to her. . hehe. . .
I thought they dropped you to misdemeanor... or is it one of the 5-10 year prohibition charges and I understand if you can't respond.
You can get an HSC anytime you want. Not related to a purchase. . . Believe it is about $25?
That's what I was hoping. Sounds good.

Cokebottle
11-02-2009, 8:22 PM
Do you have any other questions about transferring one of your handguns to your wife? I couldn't tell from the way your post is worded.
Probably a non-issue since she can't rack the slide on the XD pretty much negates a transfer of that one.
But just a general question, would a transfer from me to her require FFL/DROS and 10 day wait, or is it simply a matter of sending the transfer form (above) to DOJ with $19?

ke6guj
11-02-2009, 8:40 PM
I thought they dropped you to misdemeanor... or is it one of the 5-10 year prohibition charges and I understand if you can't respond.
626.9 misdemeanors are on the 10-year ban list.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-02-2009, 9:25 PM
Probably a non-issue since she can't rack the slide on the XD pretty much negates a transfer of that one.
But just a general question, would a transfer from me to her require FFL/DROS and 10 day wait, or is it simply a matter of sending the transfer form (above) to DOJ with $19?

Once she has an HSC you can just send in the Operation of Law form with $19 to CalDOJ when you give her the handgun. No FFL/DROS is required.

Cokebottle
11-02-2009, 9:30 PM
Once she has an HSC you can just send in the Operation of Law form with $19 to CalDOJ when you give her the handgun. No FFL/DROS is required.
Excellent... thanks.

gemini1
11-03-2009, 4:07 PM
Once she has an HSC you can just send in the Operation of Law form with $19 to CalDOJ when you give her the handgun. No FFL/DROS is required.


Not sure if this is the same but... When I came back to Cali from Florida, I brought the pistol I got there with me. I have been using it at the range for years until I found out (through CGN) that I should have registered it with the DOJ 60 days upon arriving in the PRK. Called and emailed the DOJ explaining I did'nt know about the 60 day rule and they just told me to fill up the form and send it in with payment and I'm GTG. I never even up to now have taken the HSC. though I have a valid Florida CCW.

Librarian
11-03-2009, 6:10 PM
Not sure if this is the same but... When I came back to Cali from Florida, I brought the pistol I got there with me. I have been using it at the range for years until I found out (through CGN) that I should have registered it with the DOJ 60 days upon arriving in the PRK. Called and emailed the DOJ explaining I did'nt know about the 60 day rule and they just told me to fill up the form and send it in with payment and I'm GTG. I never even up to now have taken the HSC. though I have a valid Florida CCW.

Right - in your case, there was no transfer, so you didn't need it. HSC is required for the receiver in a handgun transfer.