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stag1500
10-31-2009, 8:57 PM
In the Heller decision, Scalia expressed this idea that if a weapon is in common use (like handguns), then it cannot be banned. So can this be taken one step further by saying that since ALL the civilian transferable machine guns are in private hands, then they are by definition 100% in common use and thus cannot be banned? (Like I've said before in previous posts, I'm very bitter about the Hughes Amendment in FOPA '86).

dantodd
10-31-2009, 9:33 PM
In the Heller decision, Scalia expressed this idea that if a weapon is in common use (like handguns), then it cannot be banned. So can this be taken one step further by saying that since ALL the civilian transferable machine guns are in private hands, then they are by definition 100% in common use and thus cannot be banned? (Like I've said before in previous posts, I'm very bitter about the Hughes Amendment in FOPA '86).

Almost certainly. I really doubt that Calfornia's ban on MGs will stand up to scrutiny once we have incorporation. That does not mean that the Hughes Amendment is likely to be overturned by SCOTUS. I don't see that happening for some time, if ever. I would predict that it will outlive the NFA.

bwiese
10-31-2009, 9:34 PM
Perhaps.
But it's absolutely the wrong time to worry about NFA (esp NFA MG) stuff.

Why are you worried about MGs when you can't even have a regular AR in CA?

When people are still hassled for having handguns or we have to worry about BulletButtons/types of grips on ARs, or irrational CCW issuance, those are the battles we need to fight first. We do NOT need to taint court work or add panic to legal arguments about machineguns.

dantodd
10-31-2009, 9:45 PM
While this is true for you, me and stag there are a number of free states out there and if any residents of those states are as anxious to expand their rights as we are here they will be going after things that you and I feel are politically radioactive because the rest of the things you and I are fighting for are already in their hands. (one hell of a run on sentence)

stag1500
10-31-2009, 10:24 PM
Perhaps.
But it's absolutely the wrong time to worry about NFA (esp NFA MG) stuff.

Why are you worried about MGs when you can't even have a regular AR in CA?

When people are still hassled for having handguns or we have to worry about BulletButtons/types of grips on ARs, or irrational CCW issuance, those are the battles we need to fight first. We do NOT need to taint court work or add panic to legal arguments about machineguns.

I'm not trying to suggest we tackle Machine Gun legality right now. I'm fully aware that now is not the time. I was just trying to ascertain if we have good ground work to push for this in the future. My ultimate concern is that because of the Hughes Amendment, we now have a huge inbalance of power between the civilian and state authorities. And besides, we shouldn't have to pay $16K for a firearm that's really only worth $1.2K.

stag1500
10-31-2009, 10:25 PM
While this is true for you, me and stag there are a number of free states out there and if any residents of those states are as anxious to expand their rights as we are here they will be going after things that you and I feel are politically radioactive because the rest of the things you and I are fighting for are already in their hands. (one hell of a run on sentence)

That's o.k., I wasn't an English major either. :D

hoffmang
10-31-2009, 10:57 PM
The entire point of the "in common use" argument by Scalia was to protect everything except machine guns today. The final outcome is likely to be different, but in the near term, the majority of NFA registered weapons are not in civilian hands and thus they're not going to pass the "in common use" test.

-Gene

Meplat
10-31-2009, 11:30 PM
FOPA, is one of my big bones to pick with NRA.

We got ammo and lost all full auto for all time. Now CA is taking back the ammo.

How was that a victory?



In the Heller decision, Scalia expressed this idea that if a weapon is in common use (like handguns), then it cannot be banned. So can this be taken one step further by saying that since ALL the civilian transferable machine guns are in private hands, then they are by definition 100% in common use and thus cannot be banned? (Like I've said before in previous posts, I'm very bitter about the Hughes Amendment in FOPA '86).

hoffmang
11-01-2009, 1:20 AM
How was that a victory?

You assume it was intentional or rationally expected.

It was neither.

-Gene

Librarian
11-01-2009, 8:46 AM
The 'common use' issue got some attention at Hastings in February. As I recall, the discussion ran that given the way things are, government action could create a 'rare' situation, as with machine guns, and that such government action probably shouldn't be 'accepted' as the condition is 'artificial'. That conclusion, IIRC, was rather weakly supported by the speakers and questioners.

See Professor Johnson's paper (available here (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1494634)) "Supply Restrictions at the Margins of Heller and the Abortion Analogue: Stenberg Principles, Assault Weapons, and the Attitudinalist Critique" for a related, though not entirely on-point, discussion.

Doug L
11-01-2009, 1:36 PM
...See Professor Johnson's paper (available here (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1494634)) "Supply Restrictions at the Margins of Heller and the Abortion Analogue: Stenberg Principles, Assault Weapons, and the Attitudinalist Critique"...

I clicked on your link. It brought me to the abstract. Is there a way to view the entire article???

dantodd
11-01-2009, 1:39 PM
I clicked on your link. It brought me to the abstract. Is there a way to view the entire article???

Just above the title you should see a link called "Download." Once you click that you should see a number of options, pick the one closest to you and it should start downloading the full pdf. If you have problems pm me your email and I'll send one directly to you. It's only 500K

Doug L
11-01-2009, 5:46 PM
Thanks. It worked.