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John Z
10-31-2009, 5:53 PM
Hi Everyone,
New to the forums and new to ARs as well. I have read the notices to all us newbies, and am sure I have a grasped on things but wanted to run it by the members first.

First off, I don't have any relatives or friends into guns so I've been winging it on my own. I've owned several standard pump action shotguns and now a Saiga 7.62X39 as well, no conversion/modification yet or in the foreseeable future. I want to get into the ARs but without ever handling one or know anybody with one to demonstrate it, my education has been here and youtube.

I don't want to get in over my head with a build from scratch, but I'm assuming I can purchase a completed OLL from Kaiser Defense (or JD now?) for example, purchase the Alexander Arms Beowulf upper, install a bullet button, and I'm good to go? I can't seem to find anyone shipping the complete rifle to CA.

If you're wondering why I'm going with such a heavy hitter with my first foray into ARs, well, the completed rifle seems damn cheap relative to its firepower, and who knows what new legislation might rear its ugly head in the future. I'd like this unique piece of art in my safe.

P.S. Yes, I also know the ammo costs an arm and leg versus the Commie 7.62. :-)

Thanks for any and all help and/or advice you can provide.

jasonnorcal
10-31-2009, 6:01 PM
The rifle or lower must have a BB before entering CA if it's a complete lower with a pistol grip. Some companies will install the BB for you if you send it to them when you order the rifle\lower. You should build from scratch though, it's easy. I'm sure you'll get many offers, but I'll be the first to say that you can check mine out if your anywhere near me.

SJgunguy24
10-31-2009, 6:05 PM
Buy a lower and find yourself the upper in your choice of caliber. That was if funds are tight you can take your time. The lower is the firearm by law. It's also the cheapest part. Lowers are going for 100-150$

BTW Technique is the 50 beowolf pro around here that I know of.

John Z
10-31-2009, 6:23 PM
The rifle or lower must have a BB before entering CA if it's a complete lower with a pistol grip. Some companies will install the BB for you if you send it to them when you order the rifle\lower. You should build from scratch though, it's easy. I'm sure you'll get many offers, but I'll be the first to say that you can check mine out if your anywhere near me.

Jason, I won't have a problem with the bullet button as I plan to purchase it here in CA from a local FFL or at a local gunshow.

I'm quite a bit away from you, but I appreciate the offer...

...gotta go hand out more candies before the little ruffians egg my house. :-)

Baxter
10-31-2009, 7:19 PM
Before you pick a big bore ar I would look into ammo availability. I guess you could always reload your own. I went with the 450 bushmaster because hornady and remington make the ammo. Check around before you commit.

jasonnorcal
10-31-2009, 7:40 PM
Before you pick a big bore ar I would look into ammo availability.

Every store usually has 9mm, 5.56(.223), and 7.62(.308)...all nato rounds and widely available. Good luck trying to find .50 beowulf in a zombie scenario.......lol. It's not really the same thing, but why not get some slugs for your 12ga and call it good.



By the way, I'm on the fence currently about a 6.5g build:banghead:

rc50cal
10-31-2009, 7:44 PM
Ammo is really hard to come by right now. I have a Beowulf that I haven't shot yet. I have brass but am waiting on powder and primers. I do have some ammo coming from Gunbroker but that was a chore too. I hope the situation gets better, but know that .50 Beowulf is a rare commodity.

ffs027
10-31-2009, 7:48 PM
Before you pick a big bore ar I would look into ammo availability. I guess you could always reload your own. I went with the 450 bushmaster because hornady and remington make the ammo. Check around before you commit.

I second this, I own a beo and ammo is scarce if your not reloading, average back order times are roughly 16 weeks or so. As for purchasing this caliber in fear of future legislation, chances are your more than likely going to need to purchase a dedicated 50 beo lower, should a ban occur. Like others have stated the lower receiver is considered the firearm.


Any standard ar 15 lower will do and is easy to come by i believe riflegear may have some bullet buttoned or raddlock lowers. Uppers are readily available from various vendors on gunbroker.com there is a guy that will post a complete ca legal AA 50 beo on gunbroker.com every other week or so.

GoingPro
10-31-2009, 8:01 PM
the only thing that stopped me from getting one is the supply of ammo. and the cost.

John Z
10-31-2009, 8:17 PM
Thank you all for your input!!! It sure is making me rethink my eventual purchase. Last thing I want is an expensive club.

jasonnorcal, the 12 gauge is not going anywhere and I will never give that baby up, perfect for home defense, and will most likely be more than enough to protect the family under most circumstances that I can think of. I was considering the Beowulf simply for recreational purposes and because our politicians are so hell bent on limiting our choices. It is not something I'd consider picking up first if a low life is invading my home. The 12 gauge would be first choice, and the Saiga close behind. The Beowulf is like a Ford GT to me. Not necessary or practical, but I appreciate and want it all the same. :-)

Again, thank you all for your insights. :thumbsup:

Tragic Image
10-31-2009, 8:51 PM
John, what part of Cali are you in?

I'm sure some one here wouldn't mind showing you the ropes of AR's if you're local to them.


I'd be more to happy let you shoot mine a few times if you're local.

C.G.
10-31-2009, 9:50 PM
John Z, first you should do some reading here:
http://www.50beowulf.com/bboard/index.php

then you might want to take a look at Umlaut Arms offerings, Lars is a good guy:
http://shop.umlautarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=8

As others mentioned, I would DROS a lower and then get an upper. Wouldn't hurt to start to learn how to reload.

I've had my Beowulf for almost five years now and have been pretty happy with it.

John Z
10-31-2009, 10:05 PM
Tragic Image, I'm from San Diego. Thank you for the offer though. Great community here and by far the most informative message board I've been to.

I'm glad I posted this question. In between giving trick-or-treaters candy, I've been googling for the Beowulf .50 Cal ammo, and see what you guys mean. Thanks for saving me the time, money, and heartache from looking at a beautiful rifle I can't shoot.

Baxter, thanks for the advice on the .450 Bushmaster. I've looked at the .458 SOCOM, and it seems that ammo is harder to find and more expensive than the .450 Bushmaster as well.

John Z
10-31-2009, 10:17 PM
John Z, first you should do some reading here:
http://www.50beowulf.com/bboard/index.php

then you might want to take a look at Umlaut Arms offerings, Lars is a good guy:
http://shop.umlautarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=8

As others mentioned, I would DROS a lower and then get an upper. Wouldn't hurt to start to learn how to reload.

I've had my Beowulf for almost five years now and have been pretty happy with it.

C.G., learning how to reload is further down the line, but definitely will happen. I'm such a newbie, and want to understand and master one thing first before moving on to the next.

An engineer or mechanically minded, I am not. :-)

Trapper
10-31-2009, 10:21 PM
I'm in SD and would be glad to assist with any general AR questions. All of mine are in 5.56/223 so I'm not an expert on the Beowulf.

Beatone
10-31-2009, 11:46 PM
I sure like mine.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/beatone2000/029.jpg

Tragic Image
11-01-2009, 6:59 AM
I sure like mine.



you look WAY too happy in that picture.

NavDoc
11-01-2009, 8:20 AM
I LOVE my Beowulf (note avitar pic). It is THE ultimate pig gun, and always a crowd pleaser at the range (esp loaded w/ H110). Hand loading is the way to go right now, however. Good luck in your pursuit.

xibunkrlilkidsx
11-01-2009, 11:38 AM
mmmmm.....50beawolf. i want one. but way to expensive for my taste. but it sure does put a big hole in a car door.

someR1
11-01-2009, 2:16 PM
what is the best price you can find for this ammo?

John Z
11-01-2009, 6:55 PM
Trapper, thanks for the offer! I'll probably get in touch with you in the future. I'd probably only need help with the lower if I decide to build one. From everything I've read, the Beowulf uppers are fully assembled and are not sold in components, but I could be wrong, so no experience needed there.

Beatone, love the picture. I think my grin will be twice as wide when I decide on my big bore AR.

rc50cal
11-01-2009, 7:33 PM
On Gun Broker there is a guy selling lots of 80 rounds of 334 grain FMJ for $195. That price is steep, but he is the only one I can find who has ammo "in stock" right now.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145114336

Beatone
11-01-2009, 7:43 PM
Just be sure you get a pad for the stock because it kicks like a mule. Here is one Ca ready to go. Worth the money if you can afford it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=144949365

Beatone
11-01-2009, 7:52 PM
This guy has 100 rds for 199.00 which is a very good price on Gunbroker. I've seen it go for 60.00+ for a box.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145303827

supermario
11-01-2009, 8:54 PM
I am just curious, but why dont you guys start calling up the ammo manufactures and tell them to start making and selling 50.? From what I have seen, Calgun members have strength these days.. I have seen companies who wouldnt sell to california, start selling to california, i have seen vendors make apologies on here to calgunners who complained or got a raw deal on something. You (we) probably have the power. I mean why not, Federal, Winchester, Remington etc could all make alotta money if they sold that caliber.

rc50cal
11-01-2009, 11:04 PM
Your question is a fair one. I figured that if Bill Alexander hasn't been able to convince any other companies to make the ammo, I wouldn't have much luck either.

rjf
11-02-2009, 7:29 AM
If you don't reload, stick with common calibers. I went with the .458 Socom because it uses common .458 rifle bullets. I even shoot 405 g cast lead bullets for economical blasting. An added benefit is unmodified AR mags work fine with this round. 20 rd .556 hold 6 or 7 .458. Unfortunately the 30s may hold 11.

rc50cal
11-02-2009, 9:02 AM
It isn't hard to reload for the Beowulf either. Fifty caliber bullets, large magnum pistol primers, Lil' Gun or similar powder, and empty brass. Only the brass is unique to the Beowulf. If people weren't stocking up on powder and primers so enthusiastically, then I would have some homemade Beowulf rounds already.

evollep3
11-02-2009, 9:41 AM
Thank you all for your input!!! It sure is making me rethink my eventual purchase. Last thing I want is an expensive club.

jasonnorcal, the 12 gauge is not going anywhere and I will never give that baby up, perfect for home defense, and will most likely be more than enough to protect the family under most circumstances that I can think of. I was considering the Beowulf simply for recreational purposes and because our politicians are so hell bent on limiting our choices. It is not something I'd consider picking up first if a low life is invading my home. The 12 gauge would be first choice, and the Saiga close behind. The Beowulf is like a Ford GT to me. Not necessary or practical, but I appreciate and want it all the same. :-)
Again, thank you all for your insights. :thumbsup:

+1 I have one and it took me damn near a year to get a 100 rounds im trying to look out for as many brass as i can online in the mean while lol and what the worst part is when you shoot it going back looking for the brass is a PITA!

C.G.
11-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Your question is a fair one. I figured that if Bill Alexander hasn't been able to convince any other companies to make the ammo, I wouldn't have much luck either.

Ammo manufacturers have enough trouble keeping up with standard calibers right now, so they will not get involved in non-standard calibers.

SnipeShot
11-08-2009, 1:12 AM
Do you have to register it as a .50? Not sure if thits is fact just something I heard a person saying a while back.

C.G.
11-08-2009, 1:17 AM
Do you have to register it as a .50? Not sure if thits is fact just something I heard a person saying a while back.

.50 Beowulf is not a .50 BMG which is what had to be registered.
You are good to go on anything but .50 BMG, i. e. .50 Beowulf, .510 DTC.

ke6guj
11-08-2009, 1:23 AM
Your question is a fair one. I figured that if Bill Alexander hasn't been able to convince any other companies to make the ammo, I wouldn't have much luck either.
is it that he can't convince them to make it, or that they aren't willing to pay for the right to make it? I seem to recall one of the AR novelty caliber designers wanted royalties for people to make amm for it.


Do you have to register it as a .50? Not sure if thits is fact just something I heard a person saying a while back.nope, no need to register as a .50. The registration was only for .50BMG rifles, not other .50 caliber rifles. And besides that, the registration period for .50BMG rifles is long over.

NavDoc
11-08-2009, 6:31 AM
is it that he can't convince them to make it, or that they aren't willing to pay for the right to make it? I seem to recall one of the AR novelty caliber designers wanted royalties for people to make amm for it.


Correct.
No other companies have been licensed to produce the AA ammo and only a few have paid to use their caliber designations (DPMS and Sabre Defense come to mind).
In fact, Model 1 Sales is offering uppers in "6.5 Sporter" which is really 6.5 Grendel, they just don't want to pay to use the name.
This is similar to the JD Jones 300 Whisper, which is called 300 fireball or 300/221 by those unwilling to pay for licensing.

jumbopanda
11-08-2009, 11:58 AM
The brass has been constantly sold out for at least a year now. I got my Beowulf upper earlier this year and luckily managed to snag a 100pc bag of brass from a seller on the 50Beowulf.com forums. Since then I've fired about 500 shots, all loaded in those 100 pieces of brass. They are holding up just fine so far, and I could probably load them several more times. But I'm still a little pissed at Alexander Arms for not coming up with a solution to this brass/ammo shortage. I've heard many people on the 50Beowulf.com forums say that they've had their uppers for several months but never fired them.

Oh and if you do manage to get some brass and want to reload, check out this thread I posted about 50 Beowulf dies:

http://www.50beowulf.com/bboard/showthread.php?t=2519

SnipeShot
11-11-2009, 7:28 PM
Well I think I am going to build one along with my AR. Can I use a Spikes Tactical SL-15 Lower to build this or do I need a different lower?

Beatone
11-11-2009, 7:37 PM
Well I think I am going to build one along with my AR. Can I use a Spikes Tactical SL-15 Lower to build this or do I need a different lower?

A Spikes Tactical SL-15 Lower will work.

mds2004
11-11-2009, 7:45 PM
Well I think I am going to build one along with my AR. Can I use a Spikes Tactical SL-15 Lower to build this or do I need a different lower?

Any lower that is not marked pistol lower will work. I would put it on a lower that says multi-cal though.

JaMail
11-11-2009, 8:00 PM
If you don't reload, stick with common calibers. I went with the .458 Socom because it uses common .458 rifle bullets. I even shoot 405 g cast lead bullets for economical blasting. An added benefit is unmodified AR mags work fine with this round. 20 rd .556 hold 6 or 7 .458. Unfortunately the 30s may hold 11.


ive had an interest in 50's for a long time, finally got to shoot one at lytle last month, but out of all the threads here, i found this interesting.


does this mean that if you owned a 20 round mag, and it only fit 7 .458's it would count as a low cap mag? or because the mag can fit another caliber, it would be illegal in and of itself, this isnt about trying to get around the high camp mag ban, since i have dozens of pre ban mags, its an honest question..

if i had a couple pre ban mags for a .458, which held less than 10, but the same mag fits both calibers, what would the legality of this be?

CHS
11-11-2009, 8:59 PM
Any lower that is not marked pistol lower will work. I would put it on a lower that says multi-cal though.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ WRONG.

Any lower will work. Even if it says pistol. Even if it says 5.56...

Man, some of the lower FUD I've been hearing lately is enough to make a man sick.

CHS
11-11-2009, 9:00 PM
The rifle or lower must have a BB before entering CA if it's a complete lower with a pistol grip. Some companies will install the BB for you if you send it to them when you order the rifle\lower. You should build from scratch though, it's easy. I'm sure you'll get many offers, but I'll be the first to say that you can check mine out if your anywhere near me.

Seriously, why would you even say something SO WRONG as that?

Rifle = Yes.

Lower = can have all the evil features in the world WITHOUT a BB.

A lower IS NOT and CAN NOT be a semi-automatic centerfire rifle. Therefore it DOES NOT NEED A Bullet button.

You've been FUDSMACKED. Now don't ever go saying the same crap again.

jumbopanda
11-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Another thing to think about when reloading .50 Beowulf is the price of the projectiles. .500" bullets are pretty expensive, and I decided to start casting my own with a Lee 440gr (they came out about 425gr with linotype lead) gas checked mold. I load them with 44.0gr of Reloader 7. They seem to group decently, although I'm not a very good shot. The flat nosed bullet also cuts a pretty clean hole in paper.

Rukus
11-12-2009, 7:58 AM
Just buy my upper and ammo listed in the FS section and be set!

Seriously though ammo can be found if you look hard enough. I am a member of several other gun related forums and have been able to source ammo on each of them. Reloading seems the way to go for this caliber. Suppossedly starline is looking into producing brass for the starving market.

NavDoc
11-12-2009, 8:14 AM
does this mean that if you owned a 20 round mag, and it only fit 7 .458's it would count as a low cap mag? or because the mag can fit another caliber, it would be illegal in and of itself, this isnt about trying to get around the high camp mag ban, since i have dozens of pre ban mags, its an honest question..

if i had a couple pre ban mags for a .458, which held less than 10, but the same mag fits both calibers, what would the legality of this be?

Your question is a bit confusing. :confused: The "possession" of a high-cap mag in CA is NOT illegal. Importing, buying, selling, etc. is illegal.
So, if you already own high-cap mags, what is your concern?
If you are wondering about OLL issues, it goes like this...
A 20rd mag in an OLL lower with a 5.56 upper in place, is a high-cap mag. If it's being used with a .50 or .458 upper, it is not, as it will hold less than 10rds of the intended caliber. Once the mag is removed from the weapon, who cares how many rds it holds?

CHS
11-12-2009, 9:06 AM
A 20rd mag in an OLL lower with a 5.56 upper in place, is a high-cap mag. If it's being used with a .50 or .458 upper, it is not, as it will hold less than 10rds of the intended caliber. Once the mag is removed from the weapon, who cares how many rds it holds?


^^^ THIS.

The AW law doesn't talk about fixed-magazine rifles with hi-cap mags in them, it just talks about fixed-magazine rifles that have a capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

If there is a 30rd 5.56 mag in a .50 beowulf rifle, then the RIFLE does not have the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. But it's still technically got a hi-cap mag in it.

Perfectly fine.

Bizcuits
11-12-2009, 12:09 PM
Don't let these "why do you need it" guys shine you away from it, if I had the money a .50 beo would be sitting in my safe.

geeknow
11-12-2009, 12:18 PM
I built one, and really liked it...ammo is a PITA to hunt down though, so I sold it off, and bought something else...

for the record, I have not one negative thing to say about my Beo, except for the hassle in finding ammo.

Yes, reloading is an option for many, but not a viable one for me...

my $0.02

CHS
11-12-2009, 12:19 PM
Yes, reloading is an option for many, but not a viable one for me...


Knowing where you work, I find this statement hilarious :)

n2k
11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
I built one, and really liked it...ammo is a PITA to hunt down though, so I sold it off, and bought something else...

for the record, I have not one negative thing to say about my Beo, except for the hassle in finding ammo.

Yes, reloading is an option for many, but not a viable one for me...

my $0.02

Knowing where you work, I find this statement hilarious :)

Knowing where he works, I can understand why he can't find any .50 Beo,

I buy it all......:D

IvanTu
11-24-2009, 4:38 PM
I accidentially ran into your posts and couldn't help but join.

I ordered a 458 SOCOM barrel, bolt, and bolt carrier at the same time that I ordered my 50 Beowulf. I received the 458 SOCOM parts in 3-4 weeks and just received the 50 Beowulf a couple of weeks ago (6 months after the 458). I used a standard upper for the 458 and had to mill the bottom of the ejection port out to be able to extract the massive casing. I used standard parts when I assembled the upper with the exception of the flash suppressor. The barrel has 5/8-24 threads and the suppressor made for the 458 was $110. I got a 6.8 SPC suppressor from Midway (same threads) and opened it up to 0.472 with a mill end. It works great and only cost $30. It shoots fantastic and is easy to load for. Starline makes the brass and it is only $195.95 for 250 rounds. Even when they are out of stock it only takes Starline a couple of weeks to get the brass to you. And, they pay for the shipping.

The 50 Beowulf on the other hand, is a problem. Alexander Arms (AA) has all the components tied up. And, they intentionally changed part dimensions so you had to purchase parts from them. As an example, the barrel diameter is not the standard 0.750 or 0.936. It is somewhere in between (I didn't take the time to measure it exactly) so that ONLY THEIR gas block fits it. So, if you want a bottom rail on the gas block you have to get it from them, assuming that they make one. When I was at Starline, I asked them about 50 Beowulf brass. They said that they make but could not sell it to the public because they were under exclusive contract to AA. To get the brass, you had to go to and authorized dealer for AA. Same with loaded ammo. I called AA and asked them about all this. They didn't seem to care if I could shoot it or not because they already had my money for the upper. They also informed me that there was another brass manufacturer, Lapua. No reason to call them, same deal as Starline. I am glad that I have a 50 Beowulf even if I can't shoot it. But I doubt that I will ever buy anything with Alexander Arms on it again.

If you are looking for a large caliber AR, my recommendation is the 458 SOCOM. And, it has nothing to do with AA. The reloading components are readily available for the 458, muzzle velocity for the 458 and 50 is the same, and the projectile selections for the 458 are ten times that of the 50. All bullet manufacturers have various weights in 0.458. There are only a limited number of 50 weights available as there are only 3 weapons of that diameter.

The Army is supposedly testing both weapons in the sandbox as we speak. If the Army puts AA under contract, everything will become available as it is a government requirement that they own the rights to everything so that they can vend it out to multiple contractors. However, I doubt that that will happed just because of the barrel diameter. The barrel being an odd diameter would require the army to purchase additional parts just to support the 50. While the 458 would only require a barrel and bolt to be put into inventory, and I'm not so sure that a 762x39 bolt won't work.

Anyone want to lend me a few rounds of brass so I can shoot this thing? :)

John Z
11-24-2009, 4:57 PM
^Ivan, very cool first post. Thanks. :thumbsup:

I have actually decided against purchasing the Beowulf as I don't know how to reload...yet. There's a class in San Diego that I'll take one of these days...

I've looked into the .458 SOCOM and .450 Bushmaster as well. While ammo does not seem to be as dry as the Beowulf, they're not exactly lining the shelves either, and mighty expensive still. My paychecks can't comfortably support firing them off frequently. :-) I hate it when people buy expensive cars and worry about the mileage, and I don't want to be that person's twin with firearms.

I was thinking about making my first foray into the AR platform with a big bore rifle, but I'll probably have to stick with the 5.56/.223. I'm actually on the fence about that and getting a .308 Saiga to convert...maybe both. So many cool firearms, so little money. :-)

IvanTu
11-25-2009, 2:08 AM
:cool2::cool2:John Z,

I am obviously not from California so I know nothing about the laws there. Not sure whats legal and whats not.

I used the 556 (223) for a time doing what it was intended for. It is a lousy choice. The 762x39 served me much better. Since those days are long over, I have acrrued a small herd of the AR's. I have a 223, 6.8 SPC, 458 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf, and a 762x39. I love em all. Don't shoot the 223 much though.

If you can find someone that has a 458 SOCOM, see if they will let you shoot it. You will absolutely love it (same with 50 Beowulf). Both are alot of fun.

Reloading is the only way to go if you want to shoot anything. Its cheaper, gives you full control of performance, and a lot of fun. It is really easy. You just have to be careful to develop good housekeeping habits while learning.

This ammunition thing will loosen up in the near future. The politicians put the fear of God into the public with their anti-gun crap and people who couldn't spell gun started buying everything that they could find just in case that they might not get any. This will all go away in time. I was talking to a fellow who I buy alot of supplies from and he was saying that there is no real shortage. Being inquisitive, I said "How so?" He replied "The manufacture price that he pays is the same now as it was before the so called shortage." He did acknowledge that there is a higher demand but the price is the same. That being said, I still buy powder for $15-$17 per pound and primers for $25-30 per 1000. So, this will all go away in the future and life will be good again.

Just an after thought, if you get a 458 or 50. and start reloading for it, make sure that you only use large PISTOL primers in it. The cartridge is based off of the 50 AE (which is a pistol cartridge) and using large rifle primers causes the bolt to jam. They protrude a few thousands out of the primer pocked and you have to manually slam the bolt closed. Which is not a good thing.