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View Full Version : DSA-SA 58 or Springfield M1A?


C.G.
02-15-2005, 8:23 PM
I am looking to expand my collection to a .308, mainly for longer distance accuracy. I kind of like the DSA SA-58 (haven't shot it) in either 21" or 24" barrel, not happy about the fixed magazine. The only choice without a fixed magazine is the Springfield M1A. Any thoughts out there on either model? If DSA should I get the 21" or 24" and if M1A, which version (loaded, national match etc.)

C.G.
02-15-2005, 8:23 PM
I am looking to expand my collection to a .308, mainly for longer distance accuracy. I kind of like the DSA SA-58 (haven't shot it) in either 21" or 24" barrel, not happy about the fixed magazine. The only choice without a fixed magazine is the Springfield M1A. Any thoughts out there on either model? If DSA should I get the 21" or 24" and if M1A, which version (loaded, national match etc.)

stodgman
02-15-2005, 10:13 PM
I do not know about the SA-58 but I love my M1A. I have a standard and a Nat Match. I like the standard a lot but I love my NM.

I just put a scope on it and have not really tested it beyond 100 yards. You can see pictures of my ammo tests at http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13461
This is at 100 but I have shot a test shot quite a few metal targets at 200 and 300 yards.

6172crew
02-15-2005, 10:50 PM
Get both! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Technical Ted
02-15-2005, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Para.com:
Get both! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Werd.

I got my M1A Scout first. Then a FAL http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FWIW regarding long range accuracy, the Israeli Army initially used FAL rifles, then switched to M16's (and Galil's). For their larger caliber sniper rifls they used the M21, a derivative of the M14/M1A. They weren't using accurized FALs.

LongBch_SigP226
02-15-2005, 11:39 PM
There is not much difference between fixed magazine FAL and detachable magazine M1A. Why? California limits the magazine capacity to 10 rounds so no matter which you get, you still end up with 10rd maximum rifle. Now, if you
move to freer states, you can unmodify the FAL to accept detachable magazine or go out and buy high capacity magazine for m1a.

If you want long range accuracy, you should get the bolt action. You can buy Remington 700 Police bolt action for under 1000 bucks. That's few hundred dollars cheaper than FAL or M1A. Semi-auto and accuracy don't go together unless you are getting the match grade M1A (CA legal) or match AR15 (not legal in CA)or HK PSG-1 (not legal, too expensive).

Technical Ted
02-15-2005, 11:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DingChavez:
There is not much difference between fixed magazine FAL and detachable magazine M1A. Why? California limits the magazine capacity to 10 rounds so no matter which you get, you still end up with 10rd maximum rifle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well side by side, my factory new M1A Scout (18" bbl) is more accurate than my parts kit FAL (New 20" Argentine bbl). Could be the sights: M1A--NM front sight blade; FAL--standard Argentine front sight post.

Same ammo I can get 1" groups with the M1A and 4" groups with the FAL.

chickenfried
02-16-2005, 12:37 AM
I'd go with the M1A.
Detachable magazines are more convenient, than reloading with stripper clips.
If you want to add a scope, the FAL will limit you to shorter scopes, like an Eotech that can fit behind the opening for stripper clips.

tleary
02-16-2005, 7:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DingChavez:
There is not much difference between fixed magazine FAL and detachable magazine M1A. Why? California limits the magazine capacity to 10 rounds so no matter which you get, you still end up with 10rd maximum rifle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessarily true if you already have 20rd mags before 2000. That being said, I would go with the M1a for the reason that detachable mags are definitely more convenient

bwiese
02-16-2005, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want long range accuracy, you should get the bolt action. You can buy Remington 700 Police bolt action for under 1000 bucks. That's few hundred dollars cheaper than FAL or M1A. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Word!

Remmy 700s are commonly on sale around $700, with the 700LTR (shorter 20" heavy fluted bbl) being $30-$40 extra.

Of course you'll need a decent scope and mount which adds several hundred $$ more (forget about BSA, Trashco, Simmons, etc. - think Burris, Leupold, Zeiss).

But these guns out of the box are capable of under 1/2MOA avg @ 100yds with lotsa same-hole groups.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Semi-auto and accuracy don't go together unless you are getting the match grade M1A (CA legal) or match AR15 (not legal in CA) or HK PSG1 (not legal, too expensive). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, out of the box the bone-stock base model AR10A2 does great with Fed Gold Medal Match 168gr ammo. That multilug bolt lockup and not-too-loose chamber does wonders. I'm tempted to freefloat my AR10's bbl and drop in a Chip McCormick trigger group.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'd go with the M1A.
Detachable magazines are more convenient, than reloading with stripper clips. If you want to add a scope, the FAL will limit you to shorter scopes, like an Eotech that can fit behind the opening for stripper clips. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. As much as I don't like current Sprgfld Armory M1As (no chrome-lined bbls anymore!) I'd have to prefer it, operationally, over a California FAL.


[Of course, you really shoulda bought a coupla FALs and a M1A and and AR10 before the CA ban went in http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif - which explains 5+ years of crappy furniture in my house http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ]

Bill Wiese
San Jose

shooterx10
02-16-2005, 10:21 AM
If you're going to compete in 3-gun, you're SOL unless you shoot the Iron/HE-man division of USPSA (.308 rifle, .44 or larger for pistol, 12 gauge minimum for shotgun). The AR-15's rule the roost there.

However, if you want a semi-auto M1A that is pretty accurate, get the M21 Tactical or Super Match.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/M21.jpg

The M1A can be used for long range sniper matches. Take off the scope and bipod, then you can shoot High Power.

gobabygo
02-16-2005, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cg:
I am looking to expand my collection to a .308, mainly for longer distance accuracy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
M1A has the FAL beat for accuracy... generally by a pretty wide margin. The FAL is not known for it's great accuracy. Of course a DSA FAL is more likely to be more accurate than my homebuilt parts FrankenFAL.

Oh, and BTW the FAL can be sorta a bolt gun too... just close the gas valve. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And I've put a scope on my FAL with the TAPCO stripper clip top cover just for fun. You need really high rings and you can't use stripper clips to reload.

Leo762
02-16-2005, 2:21 PM
i would pick the FAL, i always liked FALs more, but i also bought a fal because i had the chance to put it together from parts, making it easier for me - financially - to spend the money over time on parts

icormba
02-16-2005, 3:16 PM
if price didn't matter... I'd get a M1A.

But since price does matter for me... I'm building my own FAL.

However, it looks like your comparing the "new" DSA SA-58 vs. new M1A (comparable price?) I'd get the M1A.

fastmanusa
02-16-2005, 4:14 PM
I would rather have a detachable magazine any day of the week over a pistol grip. +1 the M1A

C.G.
02-17-2005, 12:56 AM
Thanks for all the input,guys, I appreciate it!
Best way would be to buy both and sell off the one I don't like, but my budget will not allow that. I still can't make up my mind, though; supposedly the Springfield M1A isn't what it used to be in quality and the DSA supposedly is good quality. What kind of MOA can I expect from the M1A and SA-58?

TonyNorCal
02-17-2005, 3:51 AM
I read somewhere (Glocktalk.com) that M1As can be picky about ammo? Is there any truth to that or can you shoot cheap military surplus, low-end commercial, and match grade without a hicup?

SilverBox
02-17-2005, 9:51 AM
M1A's seem to have no problem with the Aussie surplus on the market right now. Its about 17 cents a round. My M1A loaded shoots about 1.5" @ 100 with it.

bwiese
02-17-2005, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony:
I read somewhere (Glocktalk.com) that M1As can be picky about ammo? Is there any truth to that or can you shoot cheap military surplus, low-end commercial, and match grade without a hicup? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really have to qualify that statement. Lotsa M1A flavors around. Whose M1A: Springfield? Fulton? Polytech? A parts gun?

And what kinda barrel/chambering... chrome lined bbl or not? Tight 'match' chamber or not?

I'd bet base model M1A are prob OK for a variety of ammo. While new base model Springfield M1As are not coming w/chrome-lined bores/chambers anymore, I'd bet they're not running the tightest chambers on these guns. The higher grade and 'match' models are likely to have tighter chambers - this, along with a non-chrome-lined chamber can result in 'pickiness' about types of ammo, usu with a preference for Fed Gold Medal Match (168gr).

I know Armalite AR10Ts w/SS match bbls really only like Fed GMM ammo - feeding lesser quality or milsurp ammo can cause these rifles to have extraction/ejection/chambering problems. In contrast, a base AR10A2 w/chromed bbl and a tad looser chamber will eat anything.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Technical Ted
02-17-2005, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
You really have to qualify that statement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The mere mention of glocktalk.com was a qualifier, some of those guy are insistent that you drink the Koolaid...if you know what I mean. It's a board dedicated to Glocks, not rifles.

You want to check out www.battlerifles.com (http://www.battlerifles.com) if you want to learn about M1 Garands and M14/M1A's.

I've fired several types of milsurp ammo through my SAI M1A Scout: Portugese, South African, both types of Aussie and Lake City. All functioned fine. Granted, all are known to be quality milsurp.

TonyNorCal
02-17-2005, 7:30 PM
To Chrome or not to chrome...

As mentioned new Springfield M1As are not chrome-lined. There are still some at distributors that are. All things being equal which is preferable? Chrome lasts longer, yes, but does it affect accuracy being harder to machine?