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View Full Version : Out of State Gun Dealers - Bunch of Fools


BigJim_610
10-29-2009, 2:09 PM
So I am looking to buy a 50 year old rifle on Gunbroker.com. I have a CA FFL lined up and the guy tells me he CANNOT sell me the gun. Is this true or is he attempting to send some kind of message to me and my duly elected politicians?

M1 Garand

dantodd
10-29-2009, 2:15 PM
If he is a dealer and refuses to get a CFLC then he CANNOT sell you the gun. The CFLC is very easy to get but some do not want to get it as a matter of principle and therefore lose all CA business for their firearms.

freakshow10mm
10-29-2009, 2:36 PM
Ask if he will drop ship to a middle man. Sell you the gun, ship the gun to the middle man, ships the gun to CA. Everyone is happy.

BigJim_610
10-29-2009, 3:14 PM
All my gun purchases are 100% legal and I will continue to do so this way.

But if their refusal is about Arnold and his recent signing, that law does not go into effect until 2011, correct?

G17GUY
10-29-2009, 3:22 PM
All my gun purchases are 100% legal and I will continue to do so this way.

But if their refusal is about Arnold and his recent signing, that law does not go into effect until 2011, correct?

purchase it and have him ship it to freakshow FFL, then freakshow FFL will ship it to your california dealer.

CHS
10-29-2009, 3:37 PM
All my gun purchases are 100% legal and I will continue to do so this way.

But if their refusal is about Arnold and his recent signing, that law does not go into effect until 2011, correct?

Uhhh, that's about ammunition. Not guns.

BigJim_610
10-29-2009, 3:48 PM
But I have noticed a very recent refusal by gun dealers, sellers and brokers very proudly stating they no longer will sell ANY gun related product to CA.

And I resent this attitude. CA is a trendsetter both good and bad, these folks should realize we are all in the 2A fight together. That is what is most irratating.

Umm clear now?

benelli shooter
10-29-2009, 3:57 PM
I hate people in free states who look down on Californians over our gun laws. Their thinking is flawed:

1. We did not create these laws. We are the victim of these laws.
2. They inherited their gun laws. They did not cause them.
3. They are doing exactly what Sarah Brady wants - they are reducing guns and gun related products to people in occupied states.

Morons.

DarkHorse
10-29-2009, 4:27 PM
I noticed the trend of folks on GB not selling to CA about 9 months ago, when I joined Calguns and saw all the threads complaining about GB sellers. It has been happening this way for quite some time.

Any kind of message he may THINK he's sending is wasted effort on his part, because the majority of our duly elected politicians don't care what we (the gun-owners of CA) want, so they won't listen to us. And we already know those politicians are inept, so he's not teaching us anything, either.

Either go the middleman route (which is legal), or buy from a different seller.

HCz
10-29-2009, 4:28 PM
I too think those who refuses to sell to CA are misguided, and generally don't have much regards for them. In fact when we get draconian laws thrown out, I'm really tempted to note them and ask people in CA not to buy from them.

DisgruntledReaper
10-29-2009, 5:03 PM
i have found this out, at least regarding handguns, if you find a CR eligible handgun and want it..you CANNOT have it shipped to a regular FFL because the FRIKKIN Roster crap...BUT you CAN or HAVE TO have the handgun brought into the state by a CR FFL holder since he has that SPECIFIC FFL. i am told that you can then do a transfer from them to you or do it directly from them(this last part I am still NOT 100% on) . I would really like a CR FFL to chime in on this..would at least help us all with getting a P38,Luger,Astra 400,Lahti,etc...

No threadjacking just thought this may help someone somewhere,somehow..

CHS
10-29-2009, 5:18 PM
i have found this out, at least regarding handguns, if you find a CR eligible handgun and want it..you CANNOT have it shipped to a regular FFL because the FRIKKIN Roster crap...BUT you CAN or HAVE TO have the handgun brought into the state by a CR FFL holder since he has that SPECIFIC FFL. i am told that you can then do a transfer from them to you or do it directly from them(this last part I am still NOT 100% on) . I would really like a CR FFL to chime in on this..would at least help us all with getting a P38,Luger,Astra 400,Lahti,etc...


If the pistol is ACTUALLY a C&R, then it's exempt from the roster. Period. It can be sent to an 01 FFL in CA.

It CANNOT be mailed to an 03 FFL. Only an 01 or 07.

Bruce
10-29-2009, 5:45 PM
But I have noticed a very recent refusal by gun dealers, sellers and brokers very proudly stating they no longer will sell ANY gun related product to CA.

It's been that way since 7-1-08. The CLFC bill was the pet project of the CRFA as a way to create a monopoly in California. They knew what the reaction of out of state FFL's would be to having to register with Cal DOJ; no more sales to California residents.

And I resent this attitude. CA is a trendsetter both good and bad, these folks should realize we are all in the 2A fight together. That is what is most irratating.

Yeah, they should. But they won't and don't. As far as the rest of the country is concerned, WE are responsible for the gun laws here. Since they've never had to fight for the 2A rights, they fail to understand what we are up against.

Umm clear now?

You'll get along here better if you lose the attitude. ;)


Answered in quote

thebronze
10-29-2009, 6:31 PM
If I lived in another state, I wouldn't sell to anybody in Kalifornia either.

With 49 (or so) other states to sell to, why would I even bother with Kali?

djm315
10-29-2009, 6:39 PM
If I lived in another state, I wouldn't sell to anybody in Kalifornia either.

With 49 (or so) other states to sell to, why would I even bother with Kali?

People like you are the problem ,, you should turn all of your guns in too, why should you even bother with the 2nd Amendment.

djm315
10-29-2009, 6:47 PM
Sorry , got a little excited .
Attitudes like that are what we are fighting against. I have shown the light to about 6 gb sellers and they turned around their policy after they found out how easy it was. Education is powerful in some cases.

VegasND
10-29-2009, 6:50 PM
Yelling and complaining doesn't do any good. Many people in 'flyover country' see the coasts as a threat to their life and freedom. California is, in many minds, the leader in this threat. Those of you that exhibit patience and try to explain the reality to these people are doing a lot more good for your cause than those who threaten and send angry emails.

You do have friends and supporters who recognize what you're up against. Believe it or not, I'm not the only Nevada resident who went into The Gun Store (on Tropicana) and told them their refusal to sell normal capacity mags to CA residents ( or insist they sign that stupid waiver ) made them look ridiculous.

While many who hate CA post negative comments and refuse to do business with you -- others will listen to reason and at least try to understand what it will take to do business with you. You won't have success with all, but there are times threads are posted here relating stories about sellers who have listened and changed their minds.

Don't get overwhelmed with your frustration and anger; continue politely informing sellers that they can do business with CA buyers and that all support is appreciated.

djm315
10-29-2009, 6:58 PM
Yelling and complaining doesn't do any good. Many people in 'flyover country' see the coasts as a threat to their life and freedom. California is, in many minds, the leader in this threat. Those of you that exhibit patience and try to explain the reality to these people are doing a lot more good for your cause than those who threaten and send angry emails.

You do have friends and supporters who recognize what you're up against. Believe it or not, I'm not the only Nevada resident who went into The Gun Store (on Tropicana) and told them their refusal to sell normal capacity mags to CA residents ( or insist they sign that stupid waiver ) made them look ridiculous.

While many who hate CA post negative comments and refuse to do business with you -- others will listen to reason and at least try to understand what it will take to do business with you. You won't have success with all, but there are times threads are posted here relating stories about sellers who have listened and changed their minds.

Don't get overwhelmed with your frustration and anger; continue politely informing sellers that they can do business with CA buyers and that all support is appreciated.

exactly , many more simply refuse politely and there is nothing you can do but keep trying .

bodger
10-29-2009, 7:04 PM
I've had several conversations with sellers on GunBroker that refuse to do business with CA residents. Every one of them that I spoke with based their refusal on the fact that they lump us gunnies together with all the liberal crap that goes on in this state.
One of them even said "You elected those idiots, so you can live with the result".

I'm sure there are sellers on GB that just don't want to take the time to educate themsleves so they can be compliant to sell to CA. But the ones I spoke with had a real attitude and made it clear that they consider CA to be ground zero for B.S. gun control.

I don't see many "no sales to New Jersey, New York", etc.
There are states that have it worse than we do in many areas.

jmlivingston
10-29-2009, 7:10 PM
i have found this out, at least regarding handguns, if you find a CR eligible handgun and want it..you CANNOT have it shipped to a regular FFL because the FRIKKIN Roster crap...BUT you CAN or HAVE TO have the handgun brought into the state by a CR FFL holder since he has that SPECIFIC FFL. i am told that you can then do a transfer from them to you or do it directly from them(this last part I am still NOT 100% on) . I would really like a CR FFL to chime in on this..would at least help us all with getting a P38,Luger,Astra 400,Lahti,etc...

No threadjacking just thought this may help someone somewhere,somehow..

This is flat-out wring, incorrect, and in some cases even illegal. A C&R license is used for collecting and doing any sort of dealing or business with one is against the law.

Handguns that are C&R eligible are quite clearly exempted from California's roster requirement. When out of state, a C&R licensee can purchase C&R handguns and personally import them back into the state; the licensee must take physical possession of the handgun before importing it. A C&R licensee may not purchase a C&R handgun via web, mail, etc and have it delivered directly to them.

John

Librarian
10-29-2009, 8:12 PM
If I lived in another state, I wouldn't sell to anybody in Kalifornia either.

With 49 (or so) other states to sell to, why would I even bother with Kali?

How about 12-13% of the market?

I know, not necessarily convincing - but there's money to be made here.

MP301
10-29-2009, 9:07 PM
I have been able to change a GB sellers mind on sending to CA 3 out of four times. It takes an initial complaint to them followed by a guilt trip on thier crappy response to thier complaint.....

I can understand the FFL's that do not wish to register with CA. Initially, id feel the same way.... "Who the F@$# does CA think they are wanting me to register with them?!?!!?"

I just point out that its free, all you have to do is fax such and such over to them , you can then make lots of money selling to those poor gunnies behind the lines which helps to piss off the liberals in CA after you do this, and i would really really really really really appreciate it if you help me stick it to the man!....And ill tell all my friends at Calguns how your supporting the fight,,,,etc...etc.

This does work sometimes if your nice enough...but definately wont if your indignant..Like anything else, you need to put them in position to want to help you and see the benefit of doing so...

And as far as someone saying something is illegal in CA when you know its not, same process while also sending proof that you are right....

A side note..... A DOJ BOF inspecter told my FFL buddy recently(doesnt mean i take it for face value, but it is plausable) that the reason they make out-of- state dealers register is because CA BOF and BATFE do not get along. And those with FFL's that can send stuff in without CA ever knowing what got sent here...BATFE supposedly wont cooperate with CA DOJ in supplying this info...yada yada....

dantodd
10-29-2009, 9:35 PM
Were all fools for living here. I seriously doubt any of the draconian gun laws weve been subjected to will be repealed. Let the hippies have this craphole.

That's a great idea. And with enough people with that attitude you'll end up having to leave the next place you go as well. Better to beat them down with a stick (i.e. The Constitution) and let them piss themselves having to see you punch holes in paper with an AR-15.

dfletcher
10-29-2009, 9:40 PM
So I am looking to buy a 50 year old rifle on Gunbroker.com. I have a CA FFL lined up and the guy tells me he CANNOT sell me the gun. Is this true or is he attempting to send some kind of message to me and my duly elected politicians?

M1 Garand

I'd say the reason he doesn't want to sell the gun in CA, unless he thinks it is illegal since it's a semi auto (he would be wrong) or philosophical is because of CFLC which requires him to go on line, get a transaction # from the state and ship.

Offer to pay him a few $$$ more (even though CFLC is free) for his efforts or (if it's legal) you do the CFLC on line and send the number to him. He doesn't have to do anything.

So I guess this would be a good time to ask though, can the CA buyer do the actual computer work and give the number to the out of state FFL seller?

freakshow10mm
10-29-2009, 10:25 PM
CA was 3rd in the nation for background checks from January to March 2009. Kentucky lead with a whopping 515,453, Texas was 2nd with 285,399 and California had 207,023.

Chatterbox
10-29-2009, 10:41 PM
CA was 3rd in the nation for background checks from January to March 2009. Kentucky lead with a whopping 515,453, Texas was 2nd with 285,399 and California had 207,023.

That means that ~12% of Kentuckians bought a gun in 3 months???? That's crazy.

mfmayes49
10-29-2009, 10:42 PM
I agree with the other poster, Our so called reps are not listening to the freedom of its citizens. We call, We write,We protest...we still lose. Problem is alot of people here are so liberal that we have a small chance of winning anything. I'm taking note from oppressed people from other countries, Leave for a more free place. I will be gone from California very soon. Moving to a more gun friendly state. I refuse to give anymore of my tax dollars to a state that ignores right to keep and bear arms..unless your a criminal or cop.

jmlivingston
10-29-2009, 10:48 PM
That means that ~12% of Kentuckians bought a gun in 3 months???? That's crazy.

Hm, don't think I'll mess with any Kentuckians! :eek:

bodger
10-29-2009, 11:11 PM
That means that ~12% of Kentuckians bought a gun in 3 months???? That's crazy.


I grew up near that state.
I'd bet that 100% of Kentuckians are already armed, and only 12% felt the need to buy another gun during that time.

Gryff
10-29-2009, 11:26 PM
I've had some success by politely educating out-of-state sellers on how easy it is to ship here despite the FUD.

freakshow10mm
10-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Local LE estimates at least 80% of households in the western UP have at least one firearm in the house.

galekowitz
10-30-2009, 7:30 AM
I have noticed that the sellers who will ship to CA have nicer GB layouts. The knuckle draggers who don't, have layouts that seem, well, ghetto.

Bruce
10-30-2009, 8:32 AM
I agree with the other poster, Our so called reps are not listening to the freedom of its citizens. We call, We write,We protest...we still lose. Problem is alot of people here are so liberal that we have a small chance of winning anything. I'm taking note from oppressed people from other countries, Leave for a more free place. I will be gone from California very soon. Moving to a more gun friendly state. I refuse to give anymore of my tax dollars to a state that ignores right to keep and bear arms..unless your a criminal or cop.

Buh-bye.

Flintlock Tom
10-30-2009, 9:02 AM
I have helped to change the mind of 2 or 3 sellers on GB who posted that they "do not sell to California". When I explained, politely, that the CFLC program does not apply to the C&R gun I want to bid on, and they can mail it straight to my house with no paperwork or hoops to jump through.
Also, the CFLC program only applies to 01 to 01 transactions. If a private citizen, non-licensee ships the gun it does not fall under the CFLC program. You just need to find an FFL who will accept delivery from a non-licensee.

CHS
10-30-2009, 9:48 AM
Also, the CFLC program only applies to 01/07 to 01/07 transactions. If a private citizen, non-licensee ships the gun it does not fall under the CFLC program. You just need to find an FFL who will accept delivery from a non-licensee.

Fixed it for you :)

I believe 02's are covered by it as well.

But yes, not 03's.

Flintlock Tom
10-30-2009, 9:49 AM
Oops, didn't know that.
Thanks.

BigJim_610
10-30-2009, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by BigJim_610
But I have noticed a very recent refusal by gun dealers, sellers and brokers very proudly stating they no longer will sell ANY gun related product to CA.

It's been that way since 7-1-08. The CLFC bill was the pet project of the CRFA as a way to create a monopoly in California. They knew what the reaction of out of state FFL's would be to having to register with Cal DOJ; no more sales to California residents.

And I resent this attitude. CA is a trendsetter both good and bad, these folks should realize we are all in the 2A fight together. That is what is most irratating.

Yeah, they should. But they won't and don't. As far as the rest of the country is concerned, WE are responsible for the gun laws here. Since they've never had to fight for the 2A rights, they fail to understand what we are up against.

Umm clear now?

You'll get along here better if you lose the attitude.

Answered in quote
__________________



Answered in quote

Satex
10-30-2009, 10:26 AM
1. We did not create these laws. We are the victim of these laws.


Yes we did, we are the people of California, we voted our representatives into office - WE created these gun laws.


2. They inherited their gun laws. They did not cause them.


See answer #1


3. They are doing exactly what Sarah Brady wants - they are reducing guns and gun related products to people in occupied states.


Yes they are, but they are also saving their livelihood.

Flopper
10-30-2009, 11:33 AM
Plenty of dealers sell to CA now because they realize there is money to be made. The morons won't sell to us, and they lose out on business.

I recommend going to the CA friendly dealers exclusively, but if it's that difficult or a very rare item, just have them ship to a middle man like Quentin Laser. He's affordable and also does really nice laser engraving.