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View Full Version : Need input, am I off base?


Meplat
10-29-2009, 11:09 AM
:dupe:

Dupe alert! I posted this as a reply in Off Topic, so, Guilty.

But I need to know what you ladies think, just to check my bearings.

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Sorry. I still think any Calendar that is too saucy to have a 14 year old in it is too saucy for CalGuns. I think you may make some money but it will be an overall fail. Each Calendar out there hanging on a wall will be a CalGuns outreach instrument. We will get flack from the anti-gun press no matter what we do. But why alienate individuals, on the hearts and minds of whom our success ultimately depends.

I realize that the train is barreling down the track and its course has been pretty much decided upon by “the powers that be”, to quote Ron Dellums. But I will voice my opinion anyway. This should not be a “glamour” format. The women and girls of CalGuns should be presented to the world with more emphasis on their values and opinions than their cleavage. They should have to be either members or immediate family of members who actually shoot, even if only infrequently because they realize they need to have that skill. There are only 12 months, we have plenty of worthy native talent without going looking for “hot” friends that are willing to hold a gun. I think each woman should be depicted participating in some real aspect of the shooting sports and there should be a substantial bio/resume’/values/interests statement on each subject. Its brevity or expansiveness depending on what the individual woman or girl and her family are comfortable with. One format could be to have three photos per month, One depicting just the subject, a yearbook type thing, or more, possibly holding her favorite weapon. Another of her participating in some aspect of the “sport”. And another including her with a theme of her choosing, possibly involving her profession, her family, or another interest or hobby she has.

Does this sound like an inappropriate place for a 14 year old?

Any woman or girl should be able to thumb through our calendar and find both respect ,and something to respect. Someone they can identify with and say to themselves “that could be me”. Any man should be able to look through it and say at some point “god I wish I could find a woman like that”.

From what Megan is saying it sounds like she would like to put together a class document and I feel comforted. But then I hear “the powers that be” say it would be an inappropriate place for a 14 year old I get very, very, worried. I worry that they see this as more about eye candy than substance. Kind of a cheap trick to raise a few bucks when it could be so much more. I am prompted to remind those who should remember and inform those who were not there that we damn near lost handguns in this country altogether in the 1960s. As one who was in the trenches at the time I can tell you it was women that saved our ***. We recruited just enough to turn the tide. Today we are way behind where we should be in our outreach. Any red blooded American male will like eye candy. Trouble is we have most of them anyway.

This should be a tool to help us reach the ladies.

Oh well, maybe next year.

P.S. For anyone who thinks I am just a prude. I was in the Navy and have been places and seen things that would curl your hair, I enjoyed most of it. And I enjoy greatly the sight of a pretty girl.

Untamed1972
10-29-2009, 11:36 AM
They should have to be either members or immediate family of members who actually shoot, even if only infrequently because they realize they need to have that skill. There are only 12 months, we have plenty of worthy native talent without going looking for “hot” friends that are willing to hold a gun. I think each woman should be depicted participating in some real aspect of the shooting sports and there should be a substantial bio/resume’/values/interests statement on each subject. Its brevity or expansiveness depending on what the individual woman or girl and her family are comfortable with. One format could be to have three photos per month, One depicting just the subject, a yearbook type thing, or more, possibly holding her favorite weapon. Another of her participating in some aspect of the “sport”. And another including her with a theme of her choosing, possibly involving her profession, her family, or another interest or hobby she has.


My question would be......if you're going to take it to that level.....then why limit it to only women? That's not why people (men) buy a "women of....." anything calendar. Not that I have anything against anyone appreciating beautiful women....cuz anyone that knows me.....knows that aint true at all. But I do think it also has it's place. Calguns not being one of them.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of some "cleavage and guns" calendar.....cuz in reality I'm not. Seems a little silly to me and not in line with the mission of Calguns if you ask me but that's just my opinion. If someone wants to do a calendar....be my guest.....but I think it's a mistake to put the Calguns name on it.

Super Spy
10-29-2009, 12:07 PM
I can see your concern. Frankly I'm all for a "Babes with Blasters" approach as long as it would be PG enough not to get anyone in trouble hanging on your cube wall at work. Libs should be offended by the guns not the gals holding them and what there wearing.....I wouldn't want a calendar if I don't enjoy looking at it.

Meplat
10-29-2009, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE=Meplat;3286989]:dupe:

Dupe alert! I posted this as a reply in Off Topic, so, Guilty.

But I need to know what you ladies think, just to check my bearings.

I posted this on the ladies forum for a reason, please try to resist answering here if you are a guy. But if you must, identify yourself as such, I don't know everyone by gender. Guys please address this in the OFF TOPIC forum. Thank you for your consideration.:)

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Super Spy
10-29-2009, 1:09 PM
Oops I just click on the "New Posts" when browsing Calguns.....obviously you were looking for input from the fairer sex.

Untamed1972
10-29-2009, 1:13 PM
[QUOTE=Meplat;3286989]:dupe:

Dupe alert! I posted this as a reply in Off Topic, so, Guilty.

But I need to know what you ladies think, just to check my bearings.

I posted this on the ladies forum for a reason, please try to resist answering here if you are a guy. But if you must, identify yourself as such, I don't know everyone by gender. Guys please address this in the OFF TOPIC forum. Thank you for your consideration.:)

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you're a dude and you posted here! Hey Pot....meet Kettle! LOL

mmartin
10-29-2009, 1:38 PM
I'll just say a little here, i've posted a bunch already on the subject. I am interested in hearing what the other gals think as well.

it'll be classy. I want to be able to hang it on my wall at work. I want to take it to my women students and have them want to buy one.

it's about outreach to both men and women. hard to meet both targets at once, but not unreachable. there are outreach-to-men-only options, but then they're buying it for the pics and not reading any of the other material, so we're missing our outreach option anyway.

some women are very happy to be in the babes with blasters version. it's all good, and I get why they'd want to do it, but we're not producing that one right now.
I still think any Calendar that is too saucy to have a 14 year old in it is too saucy for CalGuns.
I don't have any natural conflict with <not for 14 yr olds> and also <classy> and <women's outreach> aspects. because we're drawing a line there doesn't mean we're drawing it because the calendar is too saucy.

I think the point on not-for-14 is not that this will be inappropriate picture material for featuring 14yearolds... it won't. but rather that there are issues with using photos of minors vs photos of adults. it's about reducing the opportunity for sniping by the other side. not because the environment isn't teen appropriate. I can totally see photos of girls shooting as being appropriate for this calendar, however the big guys want to narrow our window of risk and exposure to criticism, and adults-only is one way to do that.

megan

Meplat
10-29-2009, 2:17 PM
[QUOTE=Meplat;3287440]


you're not a dude and you posted here! Hey Pot....meet Kettle! LOL

YA, well, nobody's perfect.

Meplat
10-29-2009, 2:31 PM
I am much more comfortable after hearing from you on this, I realize you probably don't have time to babysit nervous ninnies right now. With you taking the point I never really thought it would be anything but good.

Actually, I can't wait.

BTW, I hope they don't "airbrush" too much, I like women real.

I'll just say a little here, i've posted a bunch already on the subject. I am interested in hearing what the other gals think as well.

it'll be classy. I want to be able to hang it on my wall at work. I want to take it to my women students and have them want to buy one.

it's about outreach to both men and women. hard to meet both targets at once, but not unreachable. there are outreach-to-men-only options, but then they're buying it for the pics and not reading any of the other material, so we're missing our outreach option anyway.

some women are very happy to be in the babes with blasters version. it's all good, and I get why they'd want to do it, but we're not producing that one right now.

I don't have any natural conflict with and also and

Steyrlp10
10-30-2009, 10:07 AM
For the short time I've been wandering on this site, I've come to really enjoy the exchange of views/opinions with other Calgunners. I especially appreciate all the efforts Megan has gone through for the women on here.

That being said, I trust Megan's good judgment -- and those of her friends who are helping her with the calendar.

I'm about to pick up a new shotgun today (yet another great gift from my husband) and hope to send Megan a pic of me holding it with one of my 1911s. Since my husband is the one taking the photo(s), I also trust his judgment.

I think this is a great idea to raise money for a good cause. I also understand some of the concern some of you may have as to what may be depicted in the calendar. HOWEVER, again I must stress that I think everyone who is handling this is going to do the right thing and keep things tasteful BUT fun.

Shooting/plinking is all about fun, right?

mmartin
10-30-2009, 1:05 PM
Any woman or girl should be able to thumb through our calendar and find both respect ,and something to respect. Someone they can identify with and say to themselves “that could be me”. Any man should be able to look through it and say at some point “god I wish I could find a woman like that”.

^^ this right here.
megan

wildhawker
10-30-2009, 3:41 PM
meplat, I, too, look forward to hearing out other women on the subject of their interests surrounding the calendar project. However, I am left with the impression that your post seeks to instigate a discussion of non-issues and subvert the core intent of the project by redirecting productive conversation to irrelevant sidebars fabricated by those who disapprove of the vehicle.

Let me reiterate and make clear an important point, since I and others have already addressed as nauseam any substantive concerns you shared in the main thread: the project is moving forward with very capable and conscientious women at the helm. Please do exercise your right to vote with your wallet if the end product is not of interest to you. We hope to have many other products you may find of value available through the Calguns store very soon.

Meplat
10-31-2009, 12:45 AM
I think my position has been largely misunderstood by some. That is probably my fault in most cases, but not all. I in no way want this project to do anything but go forward. I am at a loss as to why anyone would think otherwise, unless they are not reading all my posts and have misunderstood something that I said that I put poorly and/or unclearly. Let me try to better illuminate my position.

I am 100% behind the project as it exists today.

I trust the women of CalGuns to bring forth a product we can all be proud of. I have never doubted that for a moment.

I have been persuaded that the "adults only" rule is the only prudent way to go, no matter how innocent the content. Gawd I hate political correctness.

I fully intend to buy as many Calenders as I can afford on my four-day-a-week cutback budget.

I can't wait.

I have done a lot of "discussing" of what I think are worthy ideas, but what I didn't do was make clear that I realize there is no way in the world any of this could be expected to be incorporated into the current project, given the time frame. My bad.

I take this opportunity to reiterate my apology to Angie, I was wrong. I did not mean to offend, but I did, and that's what counts, I was wrong. We could probably make a Calender on her collection alone. I'm not saying I would want to take that gem studded AR to war, but I would sure love to have it in my trophy room. And those eyes! Wonderful, example of the real women of CalGuns!

I think some of the people who are giving so generously of themselves to make this thing work are takeing the discussions of the rank and file way too seriously. That is understandable due to the pressure of their schedule. But don't let it bring you down. It's just the standard CalGuns food fight. In the end we love you and we back you.












meplat, I, too, look forward to hearing out other women on the subject of their interests surrounding the calendar project. However, I am left with the impression that your post seeks to instigate a discussion of non-issues and subvert the core intent of the project by redirecting productive conversation to irrelevant sidebars fabricated by those who disapprove of the vehicle.

Let me reiterate and make clear an important point, since I and others have already addressed as nauseam any substantive concerns you shared in the main thread: the project is moving forward with very capable and conscientious women at the helm. Please do exercise your right to vote with your wallet if the end product is not of interest to you. We hope to have many other products you may find of value available through the Calguns store very soon.

mmartin
10-31-2009, 9:14 AM
not to worry meplat, we've heard your concerns.
we're all good.
megan

Seesm
10-31-2009, 9:06 PM
why not a calender that has families and then both men and woman so everyone see's it is not some "sex sells" kinda thing or that "famalies" shoot TOGETHER?

Meplat
10-31-2009, 11:14 PM
Because it's underway, it's too late to change, and many who are working their butts off to make it happen are hypersensitive to any sort of input. Save it for later.


why not a calender that has families and then both men and woman so everyone see's it is not some "sex sells" kinda thing or that "famalies" shoot TOGETHER?

mmartin
11-01-2009, 6:54 AM
<sigh>
not hypersensitive.
but limited in resources. families for next year, probably several calendars next year if this one goes well. we have a headstart on this one, some photos are already done. and there isn't enough time and aren't enough volunteers stepping to the front to organize more than one this year.
forward progress requires focus.

"he was an eager young man, running off in all directions at once."

we need to be able to make progress, that means choosing.
megan

Seesm
11-01-2009, 10:54 AM
"Some" pic done just ad some others to make it a ful 12 months some you have and add families and such.... Show shooting as a family deal.. I love girls myself so I get what your doing Buut to sell to the "world" you need more.

mmartin
11-02-2009, 6:48 AM
NEWS FLASH!
If you've contacted me or expressed an interest in participating in creating this calendar you should have a PM waiting from me. if you do NOT... drop me a PM because it means I missed you...

also, we're trying to get an idea of quantities, so if you think you might be interested, stop over here and let us know how many you'd be interested in...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=237107

Woohoo! this thing is happening!
megan

Seesm
11-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Well I want to support so what will they cost I am pretty sure I want one...

Meplat
11-07-2009, 1:51 PM
Most of the Dillon cover girls are pro models, some are employees or family of employees and management. The more risque covers are generally professional models.



Hello,
I'm a guy. age 59 married for 35 years
I do not generally cruise the women's site but some subjects pique my curiosity, and I'm interested in what women think especially regarding firearms.
as to the subject at hand, something family oriented is best to promote our hobby/lifestyle.
I often get catalogs in the mail from "Blue Press", I think that's Dillon,and wonder what exactly they are selling and if the models are hired or are they prostituting their family members.. it gets trashed
bye
th

Roadrunner
11-07-2009, 3:05 PM
Ok I get that you prefer input from women regarding this subject but let me just say this. Maybe the pictures that are put into it could be of a variety where the women are actually shooting and not just posing with their favorite gun. That would pretty much cover all bases. Now as to the shape of the women, hour glass, round and pear are all shapes. I'll leave that up to the creators to decide.