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View Full Version : Army "excited" about new subcompact carbine...


LesGrossman41510
10-29-2009, 11:07 AM
http://www.military.com/news/article/army-excited-about-new-subcompact-gun.html?col=1186032325324
http://images.military.com/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadervalue2=inline%3Bfilename%3DNewArmySubGun _101609.jpg&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1209982521794&ssbinary=true
Despite initial industry suspicion that the Army would let the effort die a slow death, the service is moving forward with the development of a compact weapon that shoots like a rifle but slings like a sub gun.

According to the Army official in charge of fielding new weapons for the service, the search for a so-called "subcompact individual weapon system" is moving ahead in earnest. In May, the Army sponsored a user evaluation where Soldiers put subcompact weapons through their paces to see if the idea would stick.

And at least for the brass running the show, it did.

"I'm excited about the subcompact," said Col. Doug Tamilio, the Army program manager for Soldier weapons, during an Oct. 15 interview with Military.com. "There are a lot of Soldiers today who do not need to carry either a carbine or an M-16, but yet a pistol may just not be enough."

Read more on the Army’s search for a new rifle.

The Army's preliminary evaluation tested a host of weapons in different scenarios and conditions, their accuracy at different ranges and how well Joes could control the small weapons with a big punch while firing.

"We tested how Soldiers worked with those weapons and what seems to work form, fit and function better than others," Tamilio explained. "We got some great data on that."

Though Tamilio wouldn't say who participated in the evaluation, an industry source said that about six manufacturers may have submitted weapons for the shoot.

The search for a weapon that delivers a Mike Tyson punch in Sugar Ray Leonard package was included in an Army solicitation last year for a possible alternative to the M-4 carbine. The solicitation left open size, weight, barrel length and caliber, but many companies had already developed so-called personal defense weapons, or PDWs, for contract security teams and other covert operators.

"We found out a lot of good things," Tamilio said of the early summer evaluation. "There are a lot of good weapons out there [and] Soldiers can hit accurately, hit very well with all of the weapons that were out there."

"So now it comes down to what are the best parts of all of these?"

Officials with the Army's soldier weapons office said the Army Infantry School is working on final requirements for the subcompact weapon, and while it may be two years before a Joe commanding a supply convoy gets to sling one of these bantam bad boys, Army officials are moving with deliberate speed to get the program in gear.

"We got a lot of great data," Tamilio added. "So, now as the Infantry School writes the requirement they'll be more informed on what they're looking for."

Only a couple months before the Army's subcompact evaluation, industry insiders were grumbling that the Army would likely lose interest in the initiative since it was part of a much larger, more expensive push to look at alternatives to the M-4 carbine.

According to Tamilio, the so-called "Improved Carbine" program is stuck in bureaucratic and budgetary limbo. Top Army generals are still bandying about the requirements developed by the Infantry School, but Tamilio expects those to be resolved "very shortly." Then it goes to Pentagon evaluators for their chop before the Army starts to look at competitors' guns.

"There are a couple comments that they are trying to adjudicate as we speak," Tamilio said of the Army's deliberations.

"To some people [the issues] are fundamental, to other people they're on the margins - it depends on who you talk to," he added, declining to be more specific.

The service is also waiting for the final version of the fiscal 2010 Pentagon budget to be signed by the president, releasing nearly $10 million to start the program.

"At the end of that process, I'll be in a good position to start executing the program," Tamilio said. "Once we get that [Pentagon] approved requirement ... we'll be moving along at our original timeline. We're excited about that still."

Army officials have said that if all the benchmarks are met, Joes could potentially see a new rifle or redesigned M-4 by 2012.
Copyright 2009 Military.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.






What are they talking about? The MP7? HK416?

Why dont they just give everybody Sig P556 pistols haha.
Or just keep the M-4 but saw a few inches off the barrel.

Cpl. Haas
10-29-2009, 11:31 AM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1653/800pxp90cyprus.jpg

WeekendWarrior
10-29-2009, 12:13 PM
WWRTW

truthseeker
10-29-2009, 12:22 PM
krinker plinker!

johnrunner89
10-29-2009, 12:23 PM
What would the Army do with the hundreds of thousands of M-4 and M16 they would replace? My guess is sell them to a foreign country but why not put it back into the economy and leave them in the hands they belong in....American hands :P

LesGrossman41510
10-29-2009, 3:56 PM
I bet most of them might end up in the hands of the ANA, just like all the old woodland camo uniforms from the 80s.

1lostinspace
10-29-2009, 3:59 PM
krinker plinker!

That's a P90 :cool:

Whitesmoke
10-29-2009, 4:01 PM
What is ANA?

1lostinspace
10-29-2009, 4:02 PM
I thought they were going to the HK 416?

Full Clip
10-29-2009, 4:02 PM
I guess they finally remembered why the M1 Carbine was developed for WWII...

1lostinspace
10-29-2009, 4:04 PM
What would the Army do with the hundreds of thousands of M-4 and M16 they would replace? My guess is sell them to a foreign country but why not put it back into the economy and leave them in the hands they belong in....American hands :P

They will sell them to other nato countries for practically nothing.
I think the P90 in 5.56 with a 16" barrel would be great!

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Stockton
10-29-2009, 4:06 PM
ANA is Afghan National Army.

It would just be nifty if they would use a 7.5 upper to replace the M4.

joea
10-29-2009, 4:08 PM
...

1lostinspace
10-29-2009, 4:10 PM
ANA is Afghan National Army.

It would just be nifty if they would use a 7.5 upper to replace the M4.

they are having a hard time supplying 5.56 ammo how are they going to go to 7.5?

Stormfeather
10-29-2009, 5:18 PM
they are having a hard time supplying 5.56 ammo how are they going to go to 7.5?

i think he meant the 7.5 inch upper.

m1aowner
10-29-2009, 8:14 PM
Yeah we'll see. Stuff like this gets started all the time then scrubbed later.

forgiven
10-29-2009, 8:18 PM
^^^+1

KracknCorn
10-29-2009, 8:34 PM
Hope they evaluate the mappul pdr

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NoSmoke
10-29-2009, 8:43 PM
Hope they evaluate the mappul pdr

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I can see some shooting the other hand with that weapon. Too easy to reach up and grab the muzzle.

louscamaro91
10-29-2009, 9:47 PM
The Branches will never change from the M16 as long as its democratic run. I think that these gun manufactures pay/give limited amounts of gear to the ARMY,MARINES and NAVY all the coolest stuff to Demo/ Photo ops. Then all the mall ninjas will go out and buy it and Bam Magpul was born! I'm not saying owning Magpul makes you a mall ninja. I think were all guilty of owning stuff that ninja's would own

Uriah02
10-29-2009, 9:50 PM
What is ANA?

I hope I am wrong in this context but at large it is Afghan National Army.

Dr Rockso
10-29-2009, 11:08 PM
Hope they evaluate the mappul pdr

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The first time I saw that video I thought "this thing is exactly what the P90 should have been." I hope they actually build it.

dwa
10-29-2009, 11:11 PM
The Branches will never change from the M16 as long as its democratic run. I think that these gun manufactures pay/give limited amounts of gear to the ARMY,MARINES and NAVY all the coolest stuff to Demo/ Photo ops. Then all the mall ninjas will go out and buy it and Bam Magpul was born! I'm not saying owning Magpul makes you a mall ninja. I think were all guilty of owning stuff that ninja's would own

what about the deployed mall ninjas with magpul stuff?

dwa
10-29-2009, 11:12 PM
The first time I saw that video I thought "this thing is exactly what the P90 should have been." I hope they actually build it.

i think its the only one that makes sense, the army hates different ammunition types.

Soldier415
10-29-2009, 11:36 PM
krinker plinker!
Did you say krinker plinker?

krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker krinker plinker

:D

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-30-2009, 12:28 AM
Tavor FTW.

Mitch
10-30-2009, 6:14 AM
I guess they finally remembered why the M1 Carbine was developed for WWII...

Wat? The M1 Carbine was developed for use by service troops such as truck drivers. It was meant to be a more effective alternative to a sidearm. It wasn't really developed with front line troops in mind, but was adopted for that application by various parts of the infantry and airborne, because of its compact size and light weight. As a result, it earned a poor reputation for effectiveness compared to the M1 chambering a true battle cartridge.

Re the FN P90: that is a subgun, it chambers what is essentially a handgun cartridge, and is no substitute for a carbine chambering rifle rounds.

The FN F2000 chambering 5.56mm NATO is a much better alternative:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Slovoj.jpg/800px-Slovoj.jpg

Stockton
10-30-2009, 6:38 AM
i think he meant the 7.5 inch upper.


Yes, thanks Stormfeather, the 7.5 inch upper. Not really what I would call a "new" platform however you don't change ammo and you keep the existing lowers. Paperwork nightmare...yes....compact...yes.

smle-man
10-30-2009, 6:39 AM
What is ANA?

Afghan National Army

bubbagump
10-30-2009, 7:06 AM
I can see some shooting the other hand with that weapon. Too easy to reach up and grab the muzzle.

+1...exactly what I was thinking as I watched that...

Vin496
10-30-2009, 7:13 AM
They will sell them to other nato countries for practically nothing.
I think the P90 in 5.56 with a 16" barrel would be great!

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Why try to modify a gun, when they already have what you suggest.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/vincev07/fn_f2000_5.jpg