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View Full Version : Moving to CA - what to buy???


Adventurer_96
04-06-2005, 8:47 PM
OK, so I'm going to move to CA in a couple of months, and I'm planning on buying a couple of handguns before moving into the state that are on my "to get" list.

Sig 229 in 9mm
Beretta 92FS
Walther P22
CZ-75 (not a B-model, it's an early one)
H&K USP or Compact in 9mm

I've already got a few AWs to be registered (thanks to the military thing) so I'll have fun building a few ARs and AKs.

What other pistols would you recommend, and what are the ones that folks are looking for?

Adventurer_96
04-06-2005, 8:47 PM
OK, so I'm going to move to CA in a couple of months, and I'm planning on buying a couple of handguns before moving into the state that are on my "to get" list.

Sig 229 in 9mm
Beretta 92FS
Walther P22
CZ-75 (not a B-model, it's an early one)
H&K USP or Compact in 9mm

I've already got a few AWs to be registered (thanks to the military thing) so I'll have fun building a few ARs and AKs.

What other pistols would you recommend, and what are the ones that folks are looking for?

marklbucla
04-06-2005, 9:35 PM
Anything NOT on the CA approved list. The guns you listed are all CA approved. Worry about the approved list once you've already got everything that you wouldn't be able to buy once you're stuck here.

Now if you're asking for requests for things to bring into the state, get bored of, and sell PPT to someone in CA, that's a slightly different issue! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RRangel
04-06-2005, 9:37 PM
Those handguns are all legal in California at this time. If something interests you that's not on the CA DOJ approved list that would be what to get.

Sydwaiz
04-06-2005, 9:51 PM
I would like one of those CZ-40P that J&G sales offers exclusively. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I've already contacted CZ and J&G and neither have plans for importation to Cali. So if you get an extra one let me know! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

trempel_ry@yahoo.com
04-06-2005, 10:02 PM
Delta Elites, Dan Wesson Razorbacks, basically anything in 10mm other than Glock. SIG 210, I don't think that one is approved.

marklbucla
04-06-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm moving to America in August. Once there's no approved list for handguns, I'll probably have to get a Kimber Custom Target II in 9mm. Maybe a STI Trojan in 9mm instead. Heck, I'll probably also get a Bersa Thunder in .380 maybe?

Mael
04-07-2005, 9:26 AM
Caspian frames! They will sell like hotcakes.

shooterx10
04-07-2005, 9:47 AM
STI 2011 frames. They are available for a measly $325 or $350 outside of this Commie State, but the profiteers here are selling them for $600 and up!

I'd love to see the H&K USP Match (used by Lara Croft in Tomb Raider) here again. I had the chance to get one for a lousy $800 years ago, but passed it up. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

jnojr
04-07-2005, 10:16 AM
What part of CA are you moving to?

It's perfectly legal for you to buy dozens of guns where you live now. It's perfectly legal for you to bring them all to CA and register them. It is then perfectly legal for you to sell some via PPTs to help cover moving expenses, etc. I'm sure it is not legal for you to bring guns here just to sell, so I am not recommending that you do that. I'm just suggesting you might want to buy a bunch now, maybe with recommendations from people in the area you're moving to, and you can always sell them later if you realize you spent too much. Heck, maybe some people would be willing to loan you some $$$ to make those purchases? We're a very friendly community...

stealthgoat
04-07-2005, 12:05 PM
Colts, Colts, Colts!
Like for example a plain blue steel Series 80 Commander in 38 super or even 9mm. Or Delta 10mm, perhaps Super 38 Commanders, CCO (Officer frame & Commander slide) or Officers so we can make our own CCO, the new Series 70 are great, did I mention about 1 or 3 Colt Commander 38 Supers?!? The nice thing about Colts is I hear from reliable sources they are real easy to sell if you ever grow tired of them horseys on the slide....

bear
04-07-2005, 2:59 PM
Any Colt that's not on the list, especially the 70 series.

Collectible (in CA) doesn't begin to cover it.

Sheldon
04-07-2005, 3:28 PM
Yes anything not on the list would be smart to get if you forsee ever wanting it yourself. Guys have mentioned some of the desireable stuff they'de love to get.

monkey
04-07-2005, 4:04 PM
I'd be careful with this discussion. Buy what you want, but keep in mind the position you're in. You can legally buy ANY handgun now, but that won't be the case when you move here. Look at the CA DOJ list and seek handguns that are NOT on it or are unlikely to be in the future. I'd stay away from anything new from a major manufacturer as they will likely show up on the list sooner or later. Think about what you want or will want in the future, not what will have monetary value in CA right now.

But by being careful, I mean that it's a federal felony to buy a gun with the intent to resell it. That's a dealer's privilege, that's why ATF regulates licenses. If you buy a bunch of handguns, move into the state, then sell even some of them at a premium, heads might turn. If you hang on to them awhile, fine. If you can realistically prove that you needed to sell it for unforseen financial reasons, great. But if it appears that you bought what you bought so that you could make some money on the California side of the border, then you are really playing with fire.

50 Freak
04-07-2005, 6:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I mean that it's a federal felony to buy a gun with the intent to resell it. That's a dealer's privilege, that's why ATF regulates licenses. If you buy a bunch of handguns, move into the state, then sell even some of them at a premium, heads might turn. If you hang on to them awhile, fine. If you can realistically prove that you needed to sell it for unforseen financial reasons, great. But if it appears that you bought what you bought so that you could make some money on the California side of the border, then you are really playing with fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you get this idea???? I buy all my guns with the intent of selling eventually down the line. Whether it is a year down the line or the next day, I have never had any problems in the 15 plus years I have been collecting. Nor have I ever heard of anyone that has.

I think what you mean is it is a federal felony to buy a gun with the intent to do PRIVATE FACE TO FACE, NO PAPERWORK SALE (as some state allow FTF transfer of guns, no paperwork. That is what is known as a "straw purchase"). If you are buying the gun and selling it to someone else through the use of a FFL, then you are perfectly legal.

snwnme@realguns.com
04-07-2005, 7:13 PM
All the freakin' vintage N frame Smith and Wessons you can get. You'll have a bunch of us groveling...

monkey
04-07-2005, 7:41 PM
Buying guns with the express intent of "immedaite" resale is considered dealing and isn't legal for civvies. "Collecting" is something else entirely, you buy with the idea that they will appreciate over time. But if you buy a gun on Friday because you believe it's underpriced and resell it again "soon" thereafter to make a profit, you are dealing in firearms without a license. This is a felony. Just because you've been doing it for 15 years means nothing. There is no magical number by which ATF will come calling thereafter, but you do this too often or too obviously, you are will be noticed.

50 Freak
04-08-2005, 3:36 AM
Okay, can you show me a case where this has happened? or maybe legal text?

I'd be interested in seeing it.

If Joe Blow bought 50 guns on Friday and sold all 50 guns on Satuday (through the use of a FFL), it would most definitely raise some red flags on the DOJ/ATF radar. But I don't think that is illegal. Maybe Joe Blow's wife got pissed off at him and he has to sell the guns, or he changed his mind. How can that be illegal.

And I have bought guns one day and turned around and sold it a few days later because it bored me. No knocks on my door in the middle of the night.

And this discussion brings back an old memory. I used to work at Turners in So. Cal and we had this "whale" once. He would on a monthly basis drive up in his top of the line mercedes and go in the store and start at one end and just point out a bunch of guns. He would buy 10 plus guns a night (the most I remember was 30 something, and this was way before the 1 gun a month rule). He tastes ran from ARs, to lever actions. We did contact the DOJ and they did investigated him. But when they determined he was just a rich "collector" and not Yakuza they gave us the okay to continue selling to him. He would often keep some guns but mostly gave them away to friends and in the year I worked there he was never arrested for "illegal trafficking"

monkey
04-08-2005, 7:32 AM
It's not "illegal trafficking," it's dealing without a license. Buying, then giving them away as gifts is also not prohibited as you are not egaging in business by giving them away. As an unlicensed persion, you are allowed 6 handgun transfers each calendar year and can only transfer long guns "occasionally and without regularity." Buying with "immediate" resell intention is also dealing without a license. Proving that you had this intent is something else, but it is a prohibited activity. This is state law language PC 12072(d), 12021(c)1 and some others. There are exceptions like liquidating an estate, firearms tranfers for movie use, etc, but selling off a collection because you need money is NOT one of them. Just because you own 50 firearms and need the money doesn't mean you are free to sell them all at will. Federal is similar, I'll see if I can find it. But it's correct, you are not free to engage in sales of firearms at will without a license.

For this guy to buy a number of handguns, import them into CA, then sell them soon after is enough to show intent, even if he doesn't cross the 6 handguns-a-year rule. That's all I'm saying about being careful. It's a state misdemeanor and a federal felony.

A C&R FFL with the DOJ rider permit is enough to alleviate this with C&R guns. With these you can buy and sell C&R guns (collect) all day long, but for unlicensed civvies you are limited.

bear
04-08-2005, 8:25 AM
I think the C&R license has the same restriction about selling. It has to be infrequent.

It mentions this in several places too. Explicitly NOT a 'dealer's license'.

dwtt
04-08-2005, 8:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monkey:
Buying guns with the express intent of "immedaite" resale is considered dealing and isn't legal for civvies. "Collecting" is something else entirely, you buy with the idea that they will appreciate over time. But if you buy a gun on Friday because you believe it's underpriced and resell it again "soon" thereafter to make a profit, you are dealing in firearms without a license. This is a felony. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done this in the past and the ATF office in San Francisco said this was OK. I wasn't manufacturing the guns or buying wholesale, and all the sales met the federal and state requirements. I made a few bucks, the buyers got some guns at below retail prices and everyone was happy. I don't know why some people will claim something is illegal when the ATF says it's OK, and they don't have any real life experience, but on groups like this, you'll come across all types.

monkey
04-08-2005, 8:59 AM
But like everything else Government, you'll get a different answer every time you ask. The only ATF statement that has any meaningful weight or legal protection is a letter. Read the regs and laws, this is all in there. You can't do dealer things without being a licensed dealer. Just because you were verbally told otherwise, did it and nothing happened, does not mean it was legal. Who did you talk to at ATF? What department were they in? Was he/she an agent or an examiner? Would they remember you and corroborate what you stated they told you? That's why you need a letter. And if you have a legal question and want to contact ATF, contact ATF in Washington, not a field office. Nothing is decided in a field office, it all goes to and comes from ATF HQ in Washington. That's where you should seek info.

MrBubba
04-08-2005, 11:52 PM
I would bring a Sig P-210. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Y. Lee Quiote
04-09-2005, 11:32 AM
The ATF requres you to have an FFL if you are "engaged in the business." The problem is that the ATF has never defined how many sales in any given time period constitutes "being engaged in the business." I have heard it said that selling 1 gun per month won't attract any attention, 10 a year is OK, 2 per month is fine, on and on. I think in CA where all legal gun transfers go through FFLs the ATF sort of ignores PPTs since it's the unregistered sales avoiding the NICS that concerns them.

CA law prohibits bringing any unlisted handgun into the state for the purpose of resale, so make sure you plan to keep all those Colt 1911s and S&W N frames you stock up on before moving here. If you happen to change your mind once you're in the state and want to sell, well, that's OK, isn't it? A nice Model 29-2 is about $450-$500 in Free America. How much would it bring in the Sunshine State if offered on consignment?

simonp
04-10-2005, 6:21 PM
Pick up a few Caspian Steel 1911 frames http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nice to be able to build your own gun and if you decide not to I think I know someone who will take all those frames off of your hands http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

dwtt
04-10-2005, 6:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Adventurer_96:
OK, so I'm going to move to CA in a couple of months, and I'm planning on buying a couple of handguns before moving into the state that are on my "to get" list.


What other pistols would you recommend, and what are the ones that folks are looking for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what other folks are looking for, but I saw an ad for the FEG P9M in Shotgun news. For $399, you can get the Hungarian copy of the Hi-Power in 9mm, with a .40 cal conversion kit, and two magazines for each caliber. What a deal!
I bet after a year or so in California, you'll find that there are not as many places to shoot that FEG and your neighbors aren't too comfortable with you having so many guns in your house, then you can sell the pistol with it's conversion kit for a bit more than you paid.

Turbinator
04-10-2005, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dwtt:
I bet after a year or so in California, you'll find that there are not as many places to shoot that FEG and your neighbors aren't too comfortable with you having so many guns in your house, then you can sell the pistol with it's conversion kit for a bit more than you paid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, if your neighbors are that skittish about guns in the first place, I'd be VERY careful about telling them what you have and how many; In fact, I'd pretty much not let the whole gun conversation come up in the first place.

Sure, we want to convert more, but some die-hard anti's would sooner "turn you in" someday for owning guns than they would convert to see our viewpoint.

Better play it safe and keep quiet!

Turby

Adventurer_96
04-11-2005, 5:12 PM
First off, sorry for being away for a bit, computer trouble.

Second, let me clarify a bit. Unfortunately I have no intent of purchasing something to carry in for someone, much less someone who contacts me via PM or email. No offense, but I take my hobby seriously and I avoid any appearances of impropriety. Not to mention, from a purely financial standpoint, what would be the reward? A few hundred dollars? The cost far outweighs it.

With that being said, the intent of my thread was to find out at a glance what popular pistols aren't available, like the FN 5.7 until recently. I'll just take a close look at the list.

This move is really becoming a bummer. Gun registration, fees, and laws that no one understands. I can't wait to leave, and I haven't moved in yet.

Thanks for the replies.