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NCSD
10-28-2009, 2:13 PM
So this is the story I went to transfer a lower reciever Friday and the DOJ called said I was denied because of a charge I had when I was 14 years old
(14 years ago) the charge was me having a screwdriver in my sock. They said the juvenile department flaged my name but it's wierd because I've been trouble free sense then. My question is it possible to be denied for a small charge like that, that happened that long ago or am I just screwed now?
Any info will be appreciated

halifax
10-28-2009, 2:23 PM
So this is the story I went to transfer a lower reciever Friday and the DOJ called said I was denied because of a charge I had when I was 14 years old
(14 years ago) the charge was me having a screwdriver in my sock. They said the juvenile department flaged my name but it's wierd because I've been trouble free sense then. My question is it possible to be denied for a small charge like that, that happened that long ago or am I just screwed now?
Any info will be appreciated

Juvenile records can be sealed and you should do that. A screwdriver in your sock? I doubt that was the actual charge. Do you know the PC you were charged with?

tgriffin
10-28-2009, 2:29 PM
If the charge was felony concealed weapons carry of a dirk/dagger, then yes, the denial makes sense, regardless of the time you have been trouble free sense that. I'm not saying that its right that you were denied, but from a legal sense, yes that is how the system is currently run.

JustGone
10-28-2009, 2:32 PM
Aren't records sealed at 18?

SJgunguy24
10-28-2009, 2:35 PM
Sounds fishy, did you go to court and get this squared away back then?

halifax
10-28-2009, 2:36 PM
Aren't records sealed at 18?

Minor stuff maybe but felony convictions only if one petitions for it and it's granted. I believe.

Greg-Dawg
10-28-2009, 3:01 PM
Yup, screwed.:D

abalone hunter
10-28-2009, 3:24 PM
was it a flathead or a philips?

Steveo8
10-28-2009, 3:26 PM
Sounds like pinhead to me

sirnonz
10-28-2009, 3:36 PM
sorry to hear, try to see if you can do anything about getting it sealed.

HondaMasterTech
10-28-2009, 3:44 PM
That's "screwed" up.

CHS
10-28-2009, 4:10 PM
Aren't records sealed at 18?

Nope! They lead you to believe that, but records are NEVER sealed. There's just no such thing. If you get an expungement for example, it just updates your record, but it doesn't seal or delete anything.

That said, any felony on your record, juvenile or not, will prohibit you from purchasing guns. Any violent misdemeanor will prohibit you for 10 years.

Given that this was 14 years ago, I'm guessing it was a felony charge, so you're screwed for life.

Contact a lawyer if you want to own guns ever again.

wildcard
10-28-2009, 4:18 PM
Nope! They lead you to believe that, but records are NEVER sealed. There's just no such thing. If you get an expungement for example, it just updates your record, but it doesn't seal or delete anything.

That said, any felony on your record, juvenile or not, will prohibit you from purchasing guns. Any violent misdemeanor will prohibit you for 10 years.

Given that this was 14 years ago, I'm guessing it was a felony charge, so you're screwed for life.

Contact a lawyer if you want to own guns ever again.

Don't listen to this BS.

Get your records sealed by going to the Juevenile Courthouse. Tell them you want to petition to have your records sealed. They'll schedule a court date for you and chances are that you won't even have to step foot into the courtroom. You'll have to list all your charges (they can look it up for you).

Now you can actually answer "No" to the felony and arrest questions assuming all you have is a juevenile record.

The above poster is somewhat correct though.. some agencies can still see your records. Not to the extent he/she advocates though.

mmartin
10-28-2009, 4:24 PM
also possible to go to the court and ask that your felony charge be reduced to a misdo. on grounds of completion of your probation and no trouble since. once that's done, you can have the misdo expunged.

not sure of all the details of how this works, but a friend of mine's son just did this.

takes a lawyer familiar with the process.
megan

CHS
10-28-2009, 4:26 PM
The above poster is somewhat correct though.. some agencies can still see your records. Not to the extent he/she advocates though.

Agencies like the DOJ and the FBI who run NICS.

five.five-six
10-28-2009, 4:30 PM
wow, you got nailed.. IIRC, DOJ checks less than 10% of transfers.. ludk of the draw

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2009, 4:32 PM
Don't listen to this BS.

Get your records sealed by going to the Juevenile Courthouse. Tell them you want to petition to have your records sealed. They'll schedule a court date for you and chances are that you won't even have to step foot into the courtroom. You'll have to list all your charges (they can look it up for you).

Now you can actually answer "No" to the felony and arrest questions assuming all you have is a juevenile record.

The above poster is somewhat correct though.. some agencies can still see your records. Not to the extent he/she advocates though.

Yea, right. Juevenile records can be "sealed" but, it doesn't mean much. The records are ALWAYS available to certain agencies and that is a fact!

OP, you said that you were charged with a crime. You never said if you plead guilty or you were actually convicted of a crime though. Merely being charged should not have flagged your name and prevented you from buying a gun. However, if you are a convicted felon, it will. You should know if you are a convicted felon or not. Do you vote?

CavTrooper
10-28-2009, 4:36 PM
Juvi records aren't automatically sealed or expunged. Your fingerprints will always hit on an etnac check but the charges will not show. Basically, a livescan will show that you've been arrested at some point but not what for or the disposition.

ScorpioVI
10-28-2009, 4:54 PM
OP, you said that you were charged with a crime. You never said if you plead guilty or you were actually convicted of a crime though. Merely being charged should not have flagged your name and prevented you from buying a gun. However, if you are a convicted felon, it will. You should know if you are a convicted felon or not. Do you vote?


This. Were you convicted? Acquitted? Case dismissed?

Were you able to buy any guns in the past or is this the first time you tried?

NCSD
10-28-2009, 5:02 PM
It wasn't a felony charge it was a misdemeanor first and last offence only got probation and ordered to finish high school or get a G.E.D. which I did and got excused. By the way it was phillips head. I'll try calling the juvenile court house see what they say.

halifax
10-28-2009, 5:05 PM
It wasn't a felony charge it was a misdemeanor first and last offence only got probation and ordered to finish high school or get a G.E.D. which I did and got excused. By the way it was phillips head. I'll try calling the juvenile court house see what they say.

If true, then it is not the charge but some unfinished court business to deal with. Your records probably were not updated correctly to reflect your completing the terms of probation.

SgtDinosaur
10-28-2009, 5:12 PM
Yeah, I had a livescan done for a SEC license and it hit on a couple of felony arrests, but the charges were dropped in both cases. I've never had it cause a problem buying guns. Since your case was a misdemeanor I'm wondering if the fact that it was weapon related is screwing you up. If I were you I would get all the facts first. Find out for sure why DOJ denied you. You might be able to clear it up without much problem

CHS
10-28-2009, 5:58 PM
If true, then it is not the charge but some unfinished court business to deal with. Your records probably were not updated correctly to reflect your completing the terms of probation.

^^^ This.

HowardW56
10-28-2009, 6:42 PM
See section 707 WIC




http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/707.php

El Gato
10-28-2009, 7:09 PM
Firstus:
Juveniles tried in Juv. ct. are not convicted..they are adjudicated...and some of their records can be sealed and destroyed and yes they destroy the actual hard copy of the record and in my county there are no electronic copies...

Secondus:
if a juvenile is found "unfit" to be tried as a juvenile, they are tried as an adult and it becomes an adult conviction with all of the ramifications thereof...

Tertius (whatever..)
PC 12021 talks about 707(b) petitions which have consequences... if you never have more than one adjudication in juvenile court, it is highly unlikely you have a b case... unless you like stabbed someone or something... from your description it sounds like you had a 12020 ....

pc 12021:

...(e) Any person who (1) is alleged to have committed an offense
listed in subdivision (b) of Section 707 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code, an offense described in subdivision (b) of Section
1203.073, any offense enumerated in paragraph (1) of subdivision
(c), or any offense described in subdivision (a) of Section 12025,
subdivision (a) of Section 12031, or subdivision (a) of Section
12034, and (2) is subsequently adjudged a ward of the juvenile court
within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code because the person committed an offense listed in subdivision
(b) of Section 707 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, an offense
described in subdivision (b) of Section 1203.073, any offense
enumerated in paragraph (1) of subdivision (c), or any offense
described in subdivision (a) of Section 12025, subdivision (a) of
Section 12031, or subdivision (a) of Section 12034, shall not own, or
have in his or her possession or under his or her custody or
control, any firearm until the age of 30 years. A violation of this
subdivision shall be punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year or in the state prison, by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
The juvenile court, on forms prescribed by the Department of
Justice, shall notify the department of persons subject to this
subdivision. Notwithstanding any other law, the forms required to be
submitted to the department pursuant to this subdivision may be used
to determine eligibility to acquire a firearm.

go to the probation dept. and ask them about a record seal... it is pretty tight if they can give it to you... they will tell you the whole story about what you can or cannot do... and while I am a probation officer, most of my legal manuvering has been on the adult side...and while I arrest alot of juveniles...I don't get into the paperwork end of the juv. side... I just hook and book...:D

bomb_on_bus
10-28-2009, 7:42 PM
looks like a classic case of using a right handed screwdriver in the left hand..... pretty much a open and closed case:detective:

KylaGWolf
10-28-2009, 8:17 PM
In the state of CA you have the right to have your records sealed. Depending on what the charge was will dictate how long of time period has to be after the charge for that to happen. You have to ask the courts to seal the record for it to be done it is not automatic. It has been a while since I have had any dealings with juvenile records so I cannot remember if there is a charge to have this done or not. Contact the county that your case was heard in and see what you need to do to have this done. Although keep in mind if you go for a job that has a security clearance the charge may still show but will show as sealed.

CHS
10-28-2009, 8:40 PM
In the state of CA you have the right to have your records sealed.

Although keep in mind if you go for a job that has a security clearance the charge may still show but will show as sealed.

And that's the problem. Nothing is ever sealed. There is no such thing. Even if it's "sealed", it's not sealed.

And when DoJ does a background check for a firearms purchase, EVERYTHING comes back up.

You can get pardons, and you can have your rights restored, but you can never erase the past. You can never have anything truly sealed.

LAK Supply
10-28-2009, 9:12 PM
Regardless of what they see... they can't use it against you for denial if it's been expunged or juvenile record sealed...

And that's the problem. Nothing is ever sealed. There is no such thing. Even if it's "sealed", it's not sealed.

And when DoJ does a background check for a firearms purchase, EVERYTHING comes back up.

You can get pardons, and you can have your rights restored, but you can never erase the past. You can never have anything truly sealed.

Amacias805
10-28-2009, 9:20 PM
Firstus:
Juveniles tried in Juv. ct. are not convicted..they are adjudicated...and some of their records can be sealed and destroyed and yes they destroy the actual hard copy of the record and in my county there are no electronic copies...

Secondus:
if a juvenile is found "unfit" to be tried as a juvenile, they are tried as an adult and it becomes an adult conviction with all of the ramifications thereof...




Was waiting for someone to say this

leitung
10-28-2009, 9:59 PM
wow, a screw driver in a sock.. man this state is paranoid..

Whats next, taking canes away from old ladies? WTF..

The Nomadd
10-28-2009, 10:17 PM
I would give them a call, and talk to someone there. My Dad went through something similar when he purchased a Colt 1991a from a friend of his. Goes to pick up the gun, and is informed that the DOJ put a halt to the sale.
So I, being an AOJ major and a little more savvy about such things, give the DOJ a call. Spoke to a woman there who informs me that he was denied due to an arrest back in Texas back in 1983. The story was, he had bought a set of throwing knives at the local swap meet, and had made the mistake of wearing them to Long John Silver's afterwards. Needless to say, the cops stop in for lunch, see the knives, and off to jail he goes.
After spending the weekend in jail, he goes before the judge, who after a brief discussion and a "don't do it again", dismisses the case and even returns the knives to my Dad.
So after discussing it with the lady over the phone, we come to the conclusion that he shouldn't have been red flagged for an arrest some 14 years back where the charges had been dismissed for one, and for two, he had purchased another firearm a few years before, and wasn't red-flagged. So she says she'll take care of it. He picked up the gun the next day.
So giving them a call may be all you need to do.

devildog999
10-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Firstus:

Secondus:

Tertius (whatever..)



Thank you for that ;)

El Gato
10-28-2009, 10:55 PM
Thank you for that ;)

meus iucunditas

diginit
10-28-2009, 10:59 PM
A screwdriver in a sock is as good as an icepick or a knife. It is a concieled weapon. How can anyone say " Wow a screwdriver in a sock, This state is paranoid"? Why else would some one carry it there if not for use as a weapon? Either offensive or defencive. This comes from a person that used to carry a straight razor in his sock at 14. But I lived between Watts and Compton at the time. Self defence was necessary.
So don't try to tell me I'm wrong.

Being 14 yrs ago. With no other convictions since, I don't see how the DOJ could hold that against you. It would seem you have grown up since then. As most people eventually do.

El Gato
10-28-2009, 11:05 PM
A screwdriver in a sock is as good as an icepick or a knife. It is a concieled weapon. How can anyone say " Wow a screwdriver in a sock, This state is paranoid"? I must say that poster is an IDIOT! Why else would some one carry it there if not for use as a weapon? Either offensive or defencive. This comes from a person that used to carry a straight razor in his sock at 14. But I lived between Watts and Compton at the time.
So don't try to tell me I'm wrong.

Being 14 yrs ago. With no other convictions since, I don't see how the DOJ could hold that against you. It would seem you have grown up since then. As most people eventually do.

It is NOT a Per Se weapon... it is a weapon by intent...Gee 14 yr old knucklehead why do you have a screwdriver in your sock..."for self defense sir" then it is a PC 12020... if the answer is.. "I like to fix stuff sir and when I carry it in my pants pocket it always pokes me in my manhood"... = no law violation.... a Per Se violation of 12020 would, for instance, be carrying a steak knife in the sock under the pants...a Sgian Dubh stuck in ma sock beloo ma kilt wudnah be a fair cop...

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-29-2009, 2:25 AM
A cop is not going to be arresting as 14 year old kid for having a screwdriver in their sock. My guess is possession of burglary tools, possibly during the commission of.

Decoligny
10-29-2009, 8:22 AM
wow, a screw driver in a sock.. man this state is paranoid..

Whats next, taking canes away from old ladies? WTF..

Them old ladies can kick *** with a cane.

http://www.atriaseniorliving.com/uploadedImages/Atria_Experience/A_Second_Family/Story/CaneLG.jpg

DTOM CA!
10-29-2009, 8:40 AM
This whole thread the words keep popping up in my head " Your papers are not in order ! you will come with us to the station quietly, Yes!" With a German accent of course.