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View Full Version : Restraining order placed on my father?? What happens to his guns?


Fantasma
10-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Well my dad has a restraining order placed on him with his new wife and he received a letter that he must get rid of his guns by selling them to a dealer or turning them into the cops is what he is telling me are the only options.

I was wondering if those are the only ways he can get rid of them?

Can he gift me the guns (I'm 20) which would remove them from his name and turn them into my name? Or the only way is to sell them to a dealer or turn them into the cops??

Any help is appreciated and if you need more info to help me PM me.


EDIT: It says he has 24 hours to either sell to a licensed gun dealer and present a receipt in 48 hours or surrender them to the police in 24 hours from the time the restraining order was served.

Selling to another person is not a viable option, or gifting them to me??

leelaw
10-27-2009, 11:07 PM
PPT them through the dealer. The dealer can fill out the necessary documentation that the firearms have been relinquished by your father. Alternatively, if you have a friendly dealer, set up a storage contract with the dealer ($x per gun per week) and he should be able to get them back once the order is lifted.

bwiese
10-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Does your dad have an attorney?

This sounds like the backfire of a divorce and a throwaway RO glued on w/antigun provision.

It may be fixable/appealable.

jamesob
10-27-2009, 11:39 PM
he can gift them to you even handguns i believe. you will have to do some paper with the doj. correct me if i am wrong.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-27-2009, 11:40 PM
If that happened to me, I'd say "Sorry, I don't own guns anymore. I gifted them all to my son 29 days ago." Then my son would still have 1 day left to mail in the Intra-familial handgun report form to CalDOJ for all of the handgun I had given him 29 day prior. He would have just enough time to mail in the form before heading out to the airport for his out of town trip. :cool:

6172crew
10-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Does your dad have an attorney?

This sounds like the backfire of a divorce and a throwaway RO glued on w/antigun provision.

It may be fixable/appealable.

From the looks of it (profile pic) he is the son of the god father.:)

Sorry, but thats the way I took it.

oaklander
10-27-2009, 11:57 PM
Call Jason Davis - he's in my .sig.

Well my dad has a restraining order placed on him with his new wife and he received a letter that he must get rid of his guns by selling them to a dealer or turning them into the cops is what he is telling me are the only options.

I was wondering if those are the only ways he can get rid of them?

Can he gift me the guns (I'm 20) which would remove them from his name and turn them into my name? Or the only way is to sell them to a dealer or turn them into the cops??

Any help is appreciated and if you need more info to help me PM me.


EDIT: It says he has 24 hours to either sell to a licensed gun dealer and present a receipt in 48 hours or surrender them to the police in 24 hours from the time the restraining order was served.

Selling to another person is not a viable option, or gifting them to me??

Fantasma
10-28-2009, 1:39 AM
If that happened to me, I'd say "Sorry, I don't own guns anymore. I gifted them all to my son 29 days ago." Then my son would still have 1 day left to mail in the Intra-familial handgun report form to CalDOJ for all of the handgun I had given him 29 day prior. He would have just enough time to mail in the form before heading out to the airport for his out of town trip. :cool:

Wow, Great Idea. You are the man. Thanks will forward this to my dad.

Dr Rockso
10-28-2009, 2:04 AM
Wow, Great Idea. You are the man. Thanks will forward this to my dad.
:banghead:

So now instead of maybe spending some money on a lawyer and/or FFL, you're going to suggest that your dad perjure himself to a judge.

steelrain82
10-28-2009, 4:32 AM
just do what oaklander said. or have your dad right a letter saying he is gifting them all to you with the make,model, of the gun and than you have 30 days to register any pistols to the doj. but you should definitley follow oaklanders advice.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-28-2009, 7:15 AM
Wow, Great Idea. You are the man. Thanks will forward this to my dad.

I was just saying that's what I would do. It's not what your dad should do. Your dad should contact a lawyer, as mentioned above. If you forward my idea to your father via email then you might as well have forwarded it to his wife and her lawyer as well. She is probably reading all of his email these days, and maybe even listening to all of his phone calls.

paul0660
10-28-2009, 7:22 AM
Once again, it is cheaper to keep her.

In our county some friendly local ffls will store them inexpensively until the RO is lifted, at which point they have to be drosed back to the owner I believe. The sheriff, a gun friendly sort, organized the setup.

jamesob
10-28-2009, 8:52 AM
:banghead:

So now instead of maybe spending some money on a lawyer and/or FFL, you're going to suggest that your dad perjure himself to a judge.

all he has to do is give them to him today and it's fine, after all it is his property and he can do with it as he wants to.

GrizzlyGuy
10-28-2009, 8:55 AM
Here is the law regarding firearms and restraining orders:

http://law.onecle.com/california/civil-procedure/527.9.html

Casual_Shooter
10-28-2009, 9:05 AM
My understanding is that no one checks whether or not he has turned them in.

The person filing the RO can call to confirm the firearms are no longer in his possession, but I don't think neither the judge nor the officers who served the RO will check.

AndrewMendez
10-28-2009, 10:01 AM
This was always my worst fear with my X-GF!! I would contact a Lawyer, I am sure it would be worth the wait, to keep his guns! If you dont mind me asking, what where the circumstances on the reason for the restraining order?

nick
10-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Just have him give you the guns within those 24 hrs and then send the intrafamily transfer form and $19 to DOJ. Your father can then inform the judge that the guns are no longer in his possession, as they're now yours. You do have an HSC, right? If not, get one as soon as possible, otherwise he can't give you handguns. It takes a single trip to a gun store to get one.

1923mack
10-28-2009, 12:23 PM
Wow. There are only 2 options in the referenced link. Give them to the police or sell to a dealer, all within 24 hours. No mention of transfer there! Pretty harsh.

sirnonz
10-28-2009, 4:02 PM
i will follow oaklanders advice and contact Jason Davis

G17GUY
10-28-2009, 4:30 PM
i will follow oaklanders advice and contact Jason Davis

;) Good call. Best of luck!

paul0660
10-28-2009, 5:01 PM
Wow. There are only 2 options in the referenced link

Yes, just the two options in the law that Grizzly posted. Hopefully the cops can be reasonable about this.

Jeff213
10-28-2009, 5:12 PM
Is he allowed to get a handgun safety certificate being under the age of 21?

dantodd
10-28-2009, 5:16 PM
Is he allowed to get a handgun safety certificate being under the age of 21?

Yep. 18, just like ownership.

Jeff213
10-28-2009, 5:22 PM
I thought you had to be 21 to own handguns in California :confused:

Zhukov
10-28-2009, 5:28 PM
21 to BUY a handgun.

18 to HAVE one.

Sinestr
10-28-2009, 5:43 PM
Not sure if this will help ? Still looks like only two options.
36434

RandyD
10-28-2009, 6:20 PM
This issue has been discussed several times. We need to find a way to have this info posted so it is readily accessible. I am an attorney and I represent clients involving restraining orders. Your father needs to read the orders on the Temporary Restraining Order and comply with them. To do otherwise, you are subject to being charged with contempt of court, which could include a fine, jail time, and a lack of trustworthiness from the judge who will most likely handle the divorce.

RandyD
10-28-2009, 6:32 PM
I found my previous post on this issue and copied it below.

"If a judge issues a restraining order upon you, you are required to turn in your firearms. I have copied the exact language of the domestic violence restraining order below. The restrained person; "Must sell to a licensed gun dealer or turn in to police any guns or firearms that he or she has or controls. This must be done within 24 hours of being served with this order. Must bring a receipt to the court within 48 hours of being served this order, to prove that guns and firearms have been turned in or sold."

If you play games with a judge and follow the advice contained in the above post you will loose more than your guns. A family law judge has a lot of discretion to decide issues in a marital dissolution and I have witnessed the harsh consequences of when a party plays games with a judge's orders."

Meplat
10-28-2009, 6:48 PM
Where is that Captain Picard face in hand pic when you need it. Of course if you did do something like that you would want to tell the world about it on a public forum first.:rolleyes:


:banghead:

So now instead of maybe spending some money on a lawyer and/or FFL, you're going to suggest that your dad perjure himself to a judge.

Meplat
10-28-2009, 6:55 PM
Once again, it is cheaper to keep her.


It's better to just not get involved in the first place. The bunny ranch is not that far away.

Men with grown children trying to act like teenagers is just plain dumb.

guayuque
10-28-2009, 6:56 PM
If there is no history of violence, threat of voilence, etc. it should not be too hard to modify the order to allow transfer to a private party rather than divestiture.

Sinestr
10-28-2009, 7:24 PM
Here, this info is free :)

6388. A willful and knowing violation of a protective order, as defined in Section 6218, is a crime punishable as provided by Section 273.6 of the Penal Code.
top

6389. (a) A person subject to a protective order, as defined in Section 6218, shall not own, possess, purchase, or receive a firearm while that protective order is in effect. Every person who owns, possesses, purchases or receives, or attempts to purchase or receive a firearm while the protective order is in effect is punishable pursuant to subdivision (g) of Section 12021 of the Penal Code.
(b) On all forms providing notice that a protective order has been requested or granted, the Judicial Council shall include a notice that, upon service of the order, the respondent shall be ordered to relinquish possession or control of any firearms and not to purchase or receive or attempt to purchase or receive any firearms for a period not to exceed the duration of the restraining order.
(c) (1) If the respondent is present in court at a duly noticed hearing, the court shall order the respondent to relinquish any firearm in the respondent's immediate possession or control or subject to that respondent's immediate possession or control.
(2) The relinquishment ordered pursuant to paragraph (1) shall occur by immediately surrendering the firearm in a safe manner, upon request of any law enforcement officer, to the control of the officer, after being served with the protective order. Alternatively, if no request is made by a law enforcement officer, the relinquishment shall occur within 24 hours of being served with the order, by either surrendering the firearm in a safe manner to the control of local law enforcement officials, or by selling the firearm to a licensed gun dealer, as specified in Section 12071 of the Penal Code. The law enforcement officer or licensed gun dealer taking possession of the firearm pursuant to this subdivision shall issue a receipt to the person relinquishing the firearm at the time of relinquishment. A person ordered to relinquish any firearm pursuant to this subdivision shall file with the court that issued the protective order, within 48 hours after being served with the order, the receipt showing the firearm was surrendered to a local law enforcement agency or sold to a licensed gun dealer. Failure to timely file a receipt shall constitute a violation of the protective order.
(3) The application forms for protective orders adopted by the Judicial Council and approved by the Department of Justice shall be amended to require the petitioner to describe the number, types, and locations of any firearms presently known by the petitioner to be possessed or controlled by the respondent.
(4) It is recommended that every law enforcement agency in the state develop, adopt, and implement written policies and standards for law enforcement officers who request immediate relinquishment of firearms.
(d) If the respondent declines to relinquish possession of any firearm based on the assertion of the right against self-incrimination, as provided by the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the court may grant use immunity for the act of relinquishing the firearm required under this section.
(e) A local law enforcement agency may charge the respondent a fee for the storage of any firearm pursuant to this section. This fee shall not exceed the actual cost incurred by the local law enforcement agency for the storage of the firearm. For purposes of this subdivision, "actual cost" means expenses directly related to taking possession of a firearm, storing the firearm, and surrendering possession of the firearm to a licensed dealer as defined in Section 12071 of the Penal Code or to the respondent.
(f) The restraining order requiring a person to relinquish a firearm pursuant to subdivision (c) shall state on its face that the respondent is prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, or receiving a firearm while the protective order is in effect and that the firearm shall be relinquished to the local law enforcement agency for that jurisdiction or sold to a licensed gun dealer, and that proof of surrender or sale shall be filed with the court within a specified period of receipt of the order. The order shall also state on its face the expiration date for relinquishment. Nothing in this section shall limit a respondent's right under existing law to petition the court at a later date for modification of the order.
(g) The restraining order requiring a person to relinquish a firearm pursuant to subdivision (c) shall prohibit the person from possessing or controlling any firearm for the duration of the order. At the expiration of the order, the local law enforcement agency shall return possession of any surrendered firearm to the respondent, within five days after the expiration of the relinquishment order, unless the local law enforcement agency determines that (1) the firearm has been stolen, (2) the respondent is prohibited from possessing a firearm because the respondent is in any prohibited class for the possession of firearms, as defined in Sections 12021 and 12021.1 of the Penal Code and Sections 8100 and 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, or (3) another successive restraining order is used against the respondent under this section. If the local law enforcement agency determines that the respondent is the legal owner of any firearm deposited with the local law enforcement agency and is prohibited from possessing any firearm, the respondent shall be entitled to sell or transfer the firearm to a licensed dealer as defined in section 12071 of the Penal Code. If the firearm has been stolen, the firearm shall be restored to the lawful owner upon his or her identification of the firearm and proof of ownership.
(h) The court may, as part of the relinquishment order, grant an exemption from the relinquishment requirements of this section for a particular firearm if the respondent can show that a particular firearm is necessary as a condition of continued employment and that the current employer is unable to reassign the respondent to another position where a firearm is unnecessary. If an exemption is granted pursuant to this subdivision, the order shall provide that the firearm shall be in the physical possession of the respondent only during scheduled work hours and during travel to and from his or her place of employment. In any case involving a peace officer who as a condition of employment and whose personal safety depends on the ability to carry a firearm, a court may allow the peace officer to continue to carry a firearm, either on duty or off duty, if the court finds by preponderance of the evidence that the officer does not pose a threat of harm. Prior to making this finding, the court shall require a mandatory psychological evaluation of the peace officer and may require the peace officer to enter into counseling or other remedial treatment program to deal with any propensity for domestic violence.
(i) During the period of the relinquishment order, a respondent is entitled to make one sale of all firearms that are in the possession of a local law enforcement agency pursuant to this section. A licensed gun dealer, who presents a local law enforcement agency with a bill of sale indicating that all firearms owned by the respondent that are in the possession of the local law enforcement agency have been sold by the respondent to the licensed gun dealer, shall be given possession of those firearms, at the location where a respondent's firearms are stored, within five days of presenting the local law enforcement agency with a bill of sale.
(j) The disposition of any unclaimed property under this section shall be made pursuant to Section 1413 of the Penal Code.
(k) The return of a firearm to any person pursuant to subdivision (g) shall not be subject to the requirements of subdivision (d) of Section 12072 of the Penal Code.
(l) If the respondent notifies the court that he or she owns a firearm that is not in his or her immediate possession, the court may limit the order to exclude that firearm if the judge is satisfied the respondent is unable to gain access to that firearm while the protective order is in effect.
(m) Any respondent to a protective order who violates any order issued pursuant to this section shall be punished under the provisions of subdivision (g) of Section 12021 of the Penal Code.

GrizzlyGuy
10-28-2009, 7:47 PM
6389. (a) A person subject to a protective order, as defined in Section 6218...

That's for a protective order instead of a restraining order:

http://law.onecle.com/california/family/6218.html

http://law.onecle.com/california/family/6389.html

A lot of it is similar, but PC 527.9 is the applicable statute for a restraining order, which is what the OP reported his Dad has:

http://law.onecle.com/california/civil-procedure/527.9.html

KylaGWolf
10-28-2009, 8:06 PM
sirnonz Yes check with a lawyer and go from there. Someone said they don't check on ROs well they are wrong. But from what others have said you should be able to store them with a gun dealer or get them interfamily transfer to you and should satisfy the court.

Meplat
10-28-2009, 9:43 PM
With a sympathetic FFL you can trust I see nothing standing in the way of selling them to the FFL with the understanding he would then sell them to your designee, or back to you when the woman scorned drama was cleared up. When I was an FFL I would have done this for a very reasonable amount. The lawyers recommended can probably set something like this up before sundown.:D


sirnonz Yes check with a lawyer and go from there. Someone said they don't check on ROs well they are wrong. But from what others have said you should be able to store them with a gun dealer or get them interfamily transfer to you and should satisfy the court.

Fantasma
10-28-2009, 11:18 PM
My dad is just gonna play it safe is what he told me, he is just gonna comply and turn them in and get a receipt to later pick them up. I will mention to him if it is possible to get his lawyer on the day of the hearing which is on the 10th of next month to modify the order so he may gift them to me instead or just ask for them to remove that order so he may keep them. I have a feeling he is gonna play it safe and most likely will not mention anything to the judge and just pick up his guns when they allow him to-sucks but its him I tried convincing him.

dantodd
10-29-2009, 7:15 AM
My dad is just gonna play it safe is what he told me, he is just gonna comply and turn them in and get a receipt to later pick them up. I will mention to him if it is possible to get his lawyer on the day of the hearing which is on the 10th of next month to modify the order so he may gift them to me instead or just ask for them to remove that order so he may keep them. I have a feeling he is gonna play it safe and most likely will not mention anything to the judge and just pick up his guns when they allow him to-sucks but its him I tried convincing him.


That's really unfortunate. There are a number of cases where people have reported their firearms not properly stored and being returned damaged. Scratched, dinged, rusted, etc. Also, there is a whole new layer of bureaucracy post-TRO to get the guns out of hock. He'll have to go through another background check and get letters from the attorney general authorizing him to retrieve his firearms then he'll need a copy of the judgement lifting the order etc. etc. etc. The police make it as difficult as possible to retrieve guns once they have them.

Casual_Shooter
10-29-2009, 8:18 AM
Someone said they don't check on ROs well they are wrong.

That was me. According to the Sheriff who handled our RO, no one checks. But the person filing the RO can go to the court and find out. If it's found that no record of the firearms being surrendered/ sold etc, the court and sheriff's office can take further action.

sfwdiy
10-29-2009, 1:08 PM
My dad is just gonna play it safe is what he told me, he is just gonna comply and turn them in and get a receipt to later pick them up. I will mention to him if it is possible to get his lawyer on the day of the hearing which is on the 10th of next month to modify the order so he may gift them to me instead or just ask for them to remove that order so he may keep them. I have a feeling he is gonna play it safe and most likely will not mention anything to the judge and just pick up his guns when they allow him to-sucks but its him I tried convincing him.

Good God, don't let him do that. He'll be lucky to ever see them again. If he just gives them to you and you fill out the transfer form you're 100% above-board. You can do the same to give them back to him once the RO is lifted. That really sucks, man.

--B

1923mack
10-30-2009, 10:13 AM
Interfamily transfer is not mentioned. If one were to go that route, judge might not be happy. Handguns are out of your control, but you did not follow the order.

ponderosa
10-30-2009, 5:03 PM
Unfortunate for sure, but definitely... get the lawyer help recommended!

Beelzy
10-30-2009, 7:05 PM
Does the RO state on it's "face" this prohibition from owning or possesing??

If it does, Dad should sell the guns to a buddy, cheap.