PDA

View Full Version : *Urgent and important: Please read* Why you shouldn't use paypal


nn3453
10-27-2009, 8:15 AM
Got an email from paypal today,

"We appreciate the fact that you chose PayPal to send and receive payments
for your transactions.

However, after a recent review of your account, it has been determined that
you are currently in violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy. Under
the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive
payments for firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or
knives.

The complete Acceptable Use Policy can be found at the following URL:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside

To learn more about the Acceptable Use Policy, please refer to our Help
Center page here: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help

In order to comply with the Acceptable Use Policy and avoid further
limitation or closure of your account, you will need to:

1. Provide information regarding transactions: ABCD,
EFGH, HIJK and LMNO
2. Provide user ID for calguns.net"


Thankfully, the larger dollar amounts have already been processed by my bank. I won't be using paypal for anything ever again.

Please take note ladies and gents. Also, if you are sending payment, please don't use "calguns" or anything else unless you want the seller's account to be closed. They are really cracking down it seems so please do "discreet" paypal transfers at your own risk. You WILL lose your account if they find out. Don't give these guys your business. They make 3% + 30 cents on each transfer and treat you like a criminal.

I humbly request that the mods consider posting this warning in the for sale forums.

Untamed1972
10-27-2009, 8:18 AM
I wonder if that's legal for them to do? Especially since they also offer banking services and credit cards and stuff like that.....their policy may violate other banking laws.

troysland
10-27-2009, 8:25 AM
Sounds like a "Right to Refuse service to anyone" type of thing.

Boycott to begin.

troysland
10-27-2009, 8:29 AM
Where's Gunpal?

n2k
10-27-2009, 8:33 AM
Where's Gunpal?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231718&highlight=gunpal

FS00008
10-27-2009, 9:05 AM
I've never used stealerpal or slutbay and don't plan on using them ever. I will use GunPal exclusively. Stealerpal and Slutbay can go down in flames. In fact I hope they do.

SgtDinosaur
10-27-2009, 9:05 AM
That's why people say "discreet" Paypal. What they don't know won't hurt you.

Beelzy
10-27-2009, 9:11 AM
PayPal is Anti-Gun.

Why use them at all. :rolleyes:

nn3453
10-27-2009, 9:17 AM
That's why people say "discreet" Paypal. What they don't know won't hurt you.

Paypal does some digging around it seems. All my transactions were pretty "discreet."

Barney Gumble
10-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Sorry to hear about your account. This is nothing new though and has been discussed on calguns many times.

If you are going to use paypal "discreetly" that means there should be NO COMMENTS whatsoever in the transaction. Simply send the money and say nothing about what it's for or where the transaction was done.

Although I understand your frustration the reality is that this info was included in their AUP, you broke their rules, and you have to accept the consequences. That doesn't mean they're treating you like a criminal, they're simply enforcing their own policies.

Hopefully gunpal will be live for everyone soon and this whole issue will be moot anyway.

Hayashi Killian
10-27-2009, 10:11 AM
I've had to fight with PayPal before. Not using them unless I can help it.

Vin496
10-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Sorry to hear about your account. This is nothing new though and has been discussed on calguns many times.

If you are going to use paypal "discreetly" that means there should be NO COMMENTS whatsoever in the transaction. Simply send the money and say nothing about what it's for or where the transaction was done.

Although I understand your frustration the reality is that this info was included in their AUP, you broke their rules, and you have to accept the consequences. That doesn't mean they're treating you like a criminal, they're simply enforcing their own policies.

Hopefully gunpal will be live for everyone soon and this whole issue will be moot anyway.


Yeah saying thanks for Flock 23 :shifty:, Probably isn't the best idea.

sv_1
10-27-2009, 11:40 AM
Did you use comments that could tip them off?

nn3453
10-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Did you use comments that could tip them off?

Recently, a buyer used "calguns" in a comment. I think that might be the problem. The weird part is that the transactions they flagged have nothing like that in the comments so they are probably either guessing or marking blanket transactions as in violation.

Buyers, please don't do this to the seller :)

In any case, I'm signed up with gunpal now.

wildhawker
10-27-2009, 12:28 PM
Anyone up to test the PP filters with their account? Might try sending small sums for payment with only "Calguns" (and variants) in comment section.

caoboy
10-27-2009, 12:29 PM
Yeah, most of the time I don't even put comments, if it's related to certain forums at most its CG.

Funny, ebay sells all kinds of stocks, scopes, scope rings, etc, for FIRE ARMS.

IDIOTS.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-27-2009, 12:50 PM
2. Provide user ID for calguns.net"


Wow, that seems to me like a big red flag.

U2BassAce
10-27-2009, 12:58 PM
I think once they know of a site "calguns" that sells firearm related stuff and there is a history of people trying to run payments through paypal they actually go out and search the site. Using terms like discreet paypal. Then they look to see matching IDs. Ebay accounts vs calguns user ID's.

I can't confirm it but I have heard they do this.

Point being if you post in a for sale thread don't post blatant discreet paypal

I see some sites where people will post d i s c r e e t p a y p a l

Or other versions of it.

ilbob
10-27-2009, 1:01 PM
Its their business, they have a right to run it the way they see fit.

Beelzy
10-27-2009, 1:02 PM
You know once you give your handle, they will look for others and wreck them too.

Henry Hill
10-27-2009, 1:02 PM
Paypal is garbage. They've screwed me over numerous times...

rkt88edmo
10-27-2009, 1:07 PM
They are really asking you to confirm your calguns.net handle?

jdberger
10-27-2009, 1:21 PM
Anyone up to test the PP filters with their account? Might try sending small sums for payment with only "Calguns" (and variants) in comment section.

Yup. Maybe we can pass some money around for CGN merchandise.

nn3453
10-27-2009, 1:44 PM
They are really asking you to confirm your calguns.net handle?

Yep. That is the email I got.

nn3453
10-27-2009, 1:45 PM
Its their business, they have a right to run it the way they see fit.

No one denies that. We have the right to raise a stink about it as consumers and boycott their business.

Henry Hill
10-27-2009, 2:25 PM
Im a little confused on how they found out though, did you clearly write down for xxx gun . Or 'from calguns.net' or something of the sort?

nn3453
10-27-2009, 2:42 PM
Im a little confused on how they found out though, did you clearly write down for xxx gun . Or 'from calguns.net' or something of the sort?

A buyer wrote "calguns" in the comments section. They probably have a filter that looks for "gun"

m1aowner
10-27-2009, 3:01 PM
How long did it take to receive that email after the transaction?

I'll probably be getting one soon. A buyer used "calguns" and his username which included the word "gun" in comments while sending payment to me, even though I specially posted not to leave any comments at all. I thought I made myself clear enough, but somebody is always going to eventually screw up. Use at your own risk. Good thing I signed up for gunpal.

Got an email from paypal today,

"We appreciate the fact that you chose PayPal to send and receive payments
for your transactions.

However, after a recent review of your account, it has been determined that
you are currently in violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy. Under
the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive
payments for firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or
knives.

The complete Acceptable Use Policy can be found at the following URL:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside

To learn more about the Acceptable Use Policy, please refer to our Help
Center page here: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help

In order to comply with the Acceptable Use Policy and avoid further
limitation or closure of your account, you will need to:

1. Provide information regarding transactions: ABCD,
EFGH, HIJK and LMNO
2. Provide user ID for calguns.net"


Thankfully, the larger dollar amounts have already been processed by my bank. I won't be using paypal for anything ever again.

Please take note ladies and gents. Also, if you are sending payment, please don't use "calguns" or anything else unless you want the seller's account to be closed. They are really cracking down it seems so please do "discreet" paypal transfers at your own risk. You WILL lose your account if they find out. Don't give these guys your business. They make 3% + 30 cents on each transfer and treat you like a criminal.

I humbly request that the mods consider posting this warning in the for sale forums.

nn3453
10-27-2009, 3:02 PM
How long did it take to receive that email after the transaction?

A day or so.

-hanko
10-27-2009, 3:03 PM
Got an email from paypal today,

"We appreciate the fact that you chose PayPal to send and receive payments
for your transactions.

However, after a recent review of your account, it has been determined that
you are currently in violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy. Under
the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive
payments for firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or
knives.
What's new??...PayPal has taken the no-guns stance almost since they started, farther back than their acquisition by eghey. You'll notice "discrete paypal" as a payment method for some gun deals...that simply means you don't mention anything remotely sounding like 'gun'.

hth

-hankko

nn3453
10-27-2009, 3:08 PM
What's new??...PayPal has taken the no-guns stance almost since they started, farther back than their acquisition by eghey. You'll notice "discrete paypal" as a payment method for some gun deals...that simply means you don't mention anything remotely sounding like 'gun'.


I understand. I am pointing out that the seller is completely at the buyers mercy. All the buyer has to do is mention "calguns" or something gun related and the filter will flag the seller. Not going to use paypal anymore. Go gunpal.

Batman
10-28-2009, 12:27 AM
So explain to them how you used PayPal to buy binoculars, and ask the seller to provide a receipt for said binoculars.

SIP2000GLO
10-28-2009, 1:52 AM
Recently, a buyer used "calguns" in a comment. I think that might be the problem. The weird part is that the transactions they flagged have nothing like that in the comments so they are probably either guessing or marking blanket transactions as in violation.

Buyers, please don't do this to the seller :)

In any case, I'm signed up with gunpal now.


Yeah, he probably thought that writing "cal guns" was pretty discreet. :)

Now you know why the antis keep pressing for stricter gun control.

wildhawker
10-28-2009, 2:06 AM
Yup. Maybe we can pass some money around for CGN merchandise.

Nothing like feeling your way around the perimeter :43:

xibunkrlilkidsx
10-28-2009, 8:35 AM
PayPal is Anti-Gun.

Why use them at all. :rolleyes:

serisouly i only use cashier checks from my bank when buying from people online.

SuperSet
10-28-2009, 8:38 AM
I've had an account locked once already. The transaction was very discreet. But it turns out that the account that I was sending to was previously locked for gun transactions so they must have assumed that your transaction was nefarious. Bastards.

tuna quesadilla
10-28-2009, 5:18 PM
Leave negative feedback for people that fail to be discreet about it when they send you funds. Make sure everybody knows that they can't follow simple directions.

OHOD
10-28-2009, 5:45 PM
Pay Pal is owned by eBay, eBay auctions gun parts and accessories.

Food for thought.

five.five-six
10-28-2009, 5:53 PM
Pay Pal is owned by eBay, eBay auctions gun parts and accessories.

Food for thought.


not so much, thanks Meg Whitman

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6954/megwhitman.jpg

OHOD
10-28-2009, 5:56 PM
not so much, thanks Meg Whitman

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6954/megwhitman.jpg

Well howdy do!
Teaches me for not reading the fine print.

Goodness gracious.

five.five-six
10-28-2009, 6:21 PM
my particular favorite is

pictures of any firearms in a listing, even if the firearm is just part of the picture

I should create a poll to see what everyone else's favorite is

Seesm
10-28-2009, 10:44 PM
Has anyone asked? So how did they know?

artherd
11-09-2009, 12:35 AM
http://img.cdn.gunpal.net/e1-00/logo.jpg (https://www.gunpal.net)

SanSacto
11-09-2009, 12:40 AM
I already refuse to use PayPal as a payment for any of my private transactions...

holyhandgrenade
11-09-2009, 12:46 AM
my particular favorite is



I should create a poll to see what everyone else's favorite is

I think that was created because long ago people (apparently) would sell "an empty box" then throw in a free gun with the purchase to get around the no guns on ebay rule. I assume that policy was enacted to attempt to stop practices such as this.

anthonyca
11-09-2009, 12:58 AM
Has anyone started using gunpal?

audihenry
11-09-2009, 1:18 AM
Has anyone started using gunpal?

Fees are higher than PayPal with an unproven track record. Time to wait and see how it develops to reconsider.

Capt. Speirs
11-09-2009, 2:40 AM
This is nothing new, read the contract.

nn3453
11-09-2009, 6:48 AM
Fees are higher than PayPal with an unproven track record. Time to wait and see how it develops to reconsider.

Paypal charges $3% + 30 cents. Gunpal charges 2.8% + 30 cents.

ilbob
11-09-2009, 7:19 AM
Fees are higher than PayPal with an unproven track record. Time to wait and see how it develops to reconsider.

The fees are actually slightly lower.

You are right about the unproven track record.

Lots of people have tried to compete with PayPal and so far the track record is pretty dismal.

I think GP might have a chance because it has a niche it is trying to exploit. Whether that niche is big enough to give them enough of a boost to make it viable long term is the real question. Check back in a couple of years to find out.

stormy_clothing
11-09-2009, 8:54 AM
OMG OMG the sky is falling the sky is falling!!! - lol

You broke Paypal's T.O.S. and they canned you just like if you willfully violated "any" organizations T.O.S.

Paypal like every large service uses a bot to find people and terminate them it's nothing personal, all automated.

That being said there are many people who know what to do and have gone many years doing so.

Personally I would rather not use Paypal just in case the buyer is a scammer and problems arise as now they can no longer assist you.

nn3453
11-09-2009, 9:12 AM
OMG OMG the sky is falling the sky is falling!!! - lol

You broke Paypal's T.O.S. and they canned you just like if you willfully violated "any" organizations T.O.S.

Paypal like every large service uses a bot to find people and terminate them it's nothing personal, all automated.


Perhaps you should have read my post carefully before responding. I did not complain that paypal closed my account. This was a warning to other sellers who accept "discreet paypal." It can and will happen.

+1 for gunpal.

joepamjohn
11-09-2009, 7:13 PM
The fees are actually slightly lower.

You are right about the unproven track record.

Lots of people have tried to compete with PayPal and so far the track record is pretty dismal.

I think GP might have a chance because it has a niche it is trying to exploit. Whether that niche is big enough to give them enough of a boost to make it viable long term is the real question. Check back in a couple of years to find out.

These days "track record" is most important to me. Maybe in a year or so if feedback is positive.

Vinz
11-09-2009, 8:43 PM
Me too....I'll wait till the Directer gets all the bugs worked out. Looking forward to using it. Also can't wait till Gunbay comes out. ;)

vinz

joefrank64k
11-11-2009, 12:22 PM
Paypal charges $3% + 30 cents. Gunpal charges 2.8% + 30 cents.

I don't like PP's anti-gun stance any more than the next guy, hopefully GunPal will get off the ground and become accepted everywhere.

The great thing is, there is no reason to pay PP ANY fees!

It KILLS ME when I see listings on CG "PP + 3%" or "PP + 4%" or something...we're giving PP 3% to 4% of each transaction for NO REASON!!! STOP THE MADNESS!!! :D

It's SO EASY!

Here's how:

When you click on the "Send Money" tab:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/joefrank64k/PP1.jpg

there are 2 choices for you..."Purchase" or "Personal":

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/joefrank64k/PP2.jpg

Select "Personal", then "Payment Owed", then "Continue":

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/joefrank64k/PP3.jpg

Notice in my example below that "Your fee" is $0.00, the "Total charge" is $20.00 and the recipient is getting the whole $20.00...NO FEES!!!

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/joefrank64k/PP4.jpg

OK, SO WHAT'S THE CATCH???

The catch is that it's fee-free only if the money comes from the buyers PP balance or straight out of their linked Bank Account.

If the Buyer uses a CC to fund the Personal Transfer, then PP charges 2.9% + $0.30...but the Buyer can take the hit, not the seller:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/joefrank64k/PP5.jpg

The default selection if the Buyer uses a CC is for the Buyer to take the fee, not the Seller.

I've been sending and receiving payments using the "Personal" option without incurring fees and it's a great way to "stick it to the man"!!!

Not sure if this warrants a "Sticky" since they're trying to get GunPal off the ground, but I would love to get the word out to CG so we can stop giving PP money! MODS, if you think this warrants being "stuck" please have at it!