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rogdigity
10-26-2009, 11:30 PM
http://www.combathunting.com/Ruger_Mini_14_30-Ruger_Mini_14_Muzzle_Brake.html


i am wondering if this muzzle break is legal for a mini 14/30 in california.

thank you

El Gato
10-26-2009, 11:36 PM
legal...it isn't an evil feature...however.. I have one of those brakes and it is well... less than I wanted ...I have had two of them.. one on a mini 14 and one on a mini 30...

you might try this...
http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/mini_14_30_accessories.php

scroll all of the way down to the compensator section...
a friend just sent his gun to them and had the barrel turned and threaded for one of their comps... I think one of the AR type comps.. and was happier than a clam...whatever that means...:D

rogdigity
10-27-2009, 12:28 AM
not what i was asking. i already plan on sending my rifle to accuracy systems, but i dont want their compensator. im just asking if these breaks are legal to install

Werewolf1021
10-27-2009, 1:48 AM
This is kinda the gray area. It is a muzzle brake and is marketed as such (i have one also). But with the end being similar looking to a flash suppressor someone may mistake it for one.

sholling
10-27-2009, 8:26 AM
This is kinda the gray area. It is a muzzle brake and is marketed as such (i have one also). But with the end being similar looking to a flash suppressor someone may mistake it for one.
+1 it may be labeled a muzzle brake but looks a lot like a
flash suppressor.

Army
10-27-2009, 10:16 AM
Doesn't matter how it looks, the law only considers the end result.

If it is marketed as a brake...then it's a brake.

bg
10-27-2009, 10:19 AM
With respect to this site, there is an very nice mini-14 forum here.
You'll meet some nice people who have done the works to their
mini's. >

http://perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

sholling
10-27-2009, 3:51 PM
Doesn't matter how it looks, the law only considers the end result.

If it is marketed as a brake...then it's a brake.
Is that the text of the law? Because if it's not then appearance can make the difference between 6 months of dealing with a DA with a 'tude and laying out thousands in legal fees. Pyrrhic victories aren't much fun.

OlderThanDirt
10-27-2009, 6:07 PM
Well, anyone that wants to rely on what one bonehead seller calls a "muzzle brake" while another seller calls the same exact part a "flash suppressor" (see http://www.ifatactical.com/page/1530121 and scroll towards bottom), should have a few extra dollars in the bank. I doubt combathunting.com will be willing to defend you.

http://www.combathunting.com/40059929.jpg http://www.ifatactical.com/files/1772952/uploaded/Mini-14-Combo-Suppressor-2.jpg

So, the one on the left is sold as a muzzle brake, while the one on the right is sold as a flash suppressor. They sure lookie the same to me.

I'll stick with a muzzle brake defined as where the diameter of the exit hole is essentially the same as the barrel.

Army
10-27-2009, 6:43 PM
DOJ Regulations #978.20-B:

"“flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision."

That's it. That's the regulation. No description. No physical dimensions. Only regulates what it does, nothing else. If it is intended to act as a brake or compensator and is marketed that way.......it is legal.

The US Government/US Military calls the A2 device a compensator. It is obviously NOT enclosed at the end, yet remains fully legal and described as a brake/compensator.

sholling
10-27-2009, 7:20 PM
DOJ Regulations #978.20-B:

"“flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision."

That's it. That's the regulation. No description. No physical dimensions. Only regulates what it does, nothing else. If it is intended to act as a brake or compensator and is marketed that way.......it is legal.

The US Government/US Military calls the A2 device a compensator. It is obviously NOT enclosed at the end, yet remains fully legal and described as a brake/compensator.
What part of "functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision" is unclear? It doesn't matter if the seller calls it a "banana" if it functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision then it's illegal. Now if you want to contend that the model that the OP posted does not actually "perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision" then that's another matter. I think it might. A LEO and a DA might or might not, or might just want to make an example of somebody. It's a roll of the dice.

Army
10-27-2009, 8:02 PM
A compensator will blow much of the blast/flash UP INTO YOUR SIGHT LINE.

A brake will blow much of the blast/flash into your PERIPHERAL VISION.

Neither one functions to reduce the flash. Indeed, the Marines intentionally gave up some flash suppression in 1982, in order for the A2 device to better function as a compensator.

Again, if it is a brake or a compensator...then it is not a flash hider/suppressor.

CCWUSA
10-27-2009, 8:14 PM
I used one of these many years ago...(It's upside down in the photo?) Much better pruducts are available today for your mini-14. I have to give a big thumbs up for Accuracy Systems. I did one of their package deals, rebarrel, barrel stabilizer, action is pinned to the stock, front tritium sight, and a excellent trigger make my Mini-14 one of the most accurate Ranch Rifles available. The mini-14 design is also extremely durable and not prone to malfunctions....like some other carbines.

If I'm not shooting the SoCom 16, the Mini-14 is my next choice. Check out Accuracy Systems for more info..

Regards,

BrowningTBolt
10-27-2009, 8:22 PM
Doesn't matter how it looks, the law only considers the end result.

If it is marketed as a brake...then it's a brake.

What law? You have a reference?

El Gato
10-27-2009, 8:24 PM
Way too many people get arrested and their gun confiscated for silly stuff... one of our officers had converted his with a "flash suppressor" and was told to loose it fast...his mini is now sans suppressor and has a Accuracy systems compensator/brake..... sold as a break.... has a slightly larger then bore diameter exit hole that focuses the gas into the ports....

My Smith brake/compensator... blows dust and stuff everywhere... and is very loud... and works very very well to control muzzle rise on the AR...but it is obviously a BRAKE/COMPENSATOR and not a flash suppressor.... take video at night and you can SEE THE DIFFERENCE....

Which is how Springfield got their "California" attachment approved by the DOJ...

BrowningTBolt
10-27-2009, 8:24 PM
[b]

The US Government/US Military calls the A2 device a compensator. It is obviously NOT enclosed at the end, yet remains fully legal and described as a brake/compensator.

According to YOU. Every retailer that I have EVER seen calls it a flash suppressor. Additionally, during the FEDERAL AW ban, the post ban models did NOT have the A2 device; something else was substituted. Clinging to your current viewpoint really makes no sense; especially since by your own statements, since the A2 is labeled a flash suppressor by nearly every seller out there, it is a flash suppressor.

Army
10-27-2009, 9:46 PM
BrowningTBolt...I posted the regulation. Some people actually read the threads before making comments.

Not according to me, it is according to every M16A2/A4 and M4 -24&P maintenance manual in existence throughout all branches of the United States Military. A retailer can call it what he wants, since they are not advertising strictly for California.

So, when a government entity (US military) calls it a compensator because that is what it does with more flash then ever before, and another government entity (California Dept Of Justice) establishes what a flash hider does---why would another government entity (US courthouse) decide otherwise?

El Gato
10-27-2009, 10:12 PM
Ok... brake/compensator/fairy dust projector.... the one the op asked about is a piece of crap... that's all I'm saying.. didn't hide anything and blew off after a few rounds... stripped the roll pin if I remember correctly .... stupid piece of crap and it looked even more bubba than you can imagine on the actual gun... but if that's what you want ... mo power to ya...

AngelDecoys
10-27-2009, 10:26 PM
This question has come up before. So long as the item is a muzzle break (not a flash hider), it would be legal to install (so long as the rest of the rifle is stock).

The problem here is that some flash hiders are marketed as breaks, or breaks and flash hiders.

The key is making sure the hole at the end is just a little larger than the bullet needs to pass.

http://www.combathunting.com/Ruger_Mini_14_30-Ruger_Mini_14_Muzzle_Brake.html

What you have linked above is a flash hider marketed as a break. Were it me, I would not install it on my Mini-14.

Meplat
10-28-2009, 4:21 PM
Why would you need a compensator on a Mini-14? Cosmetics?


not what i was asking. i already plan on sending my rifle to accuracy systems, but i dont want their compensator. im just asking if these breaks are legal to install

sholling
10-28-2009, 4:34 PM
Why would you need a compensator on a Mini-14? Cosmetics?
That's why a lot of people add them but it's not the only reason. The extra weight can dampen harmonics. That's why I have a real muzzle break on one of mine.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/damnfineguy/My%20Toys%20800/IMG_0205a.jpg

Meplat
10-28-2009, 4:38 PM
They don't look the same to me. I don't know the answer to the original question and am not trying to stir things. I'm just saying they dont look the same. The bottom one looks slightly more flared than the top one. And maybe I'm looking crosseyed but it looks like they both have a vent on the top where it would not help much to hide a flash. And who says I don't need to shoot in the dark anyway. Is the bill of rights only valid in daylight?

OOPS! Just looked again. The bottom one does in fact have a solid top but the top one does not. I would call the top one a brake/compensator and the bottom a flash hider.


Well, anyone that wants to rely on what one bonehead seller calls a "muzzle brake" while another seller calls the same exact part a "flash suppressor" (see http://www.ifatactical.com/page/1530121 and scroll towards bottom), should have a few extra dollars in the bank. I doubt combathunting.com will be willing to defend you.

http://www.combathunting.com/40059929.jpg http://www.ifatactical.com/files/1772952/uploaded/Mini-14-Combo-Suppressor-2.jpg

So, the one on the left is sold as a muzzle brake, while the one on the right is sold as a flash suppressor. They sure lookie the same to me.

I'll stick with a muzzle brake defined as where the diameter of the exit hole is essentially the same as the barrel.

Meplat
10-28-2009, 5:25 PM
So, what if you run into a device on the end of a rifle that has no label, no maker's mark, no markings of any kind. What if it is also obvious by its design, in that it has a big fat vent slot directed straight up in line with the front sight, and that it has a big wide unvented surface on the bottom, and is bored only slightly over bore diameter, that it is designed to reduce recoil and muzzle jump, but not to reduce flash along the shooters line of sight. What do we legally have here? It walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, but it is not marked "DUCK" and no one claims it as HIS duck.:confused:



DOJ Regulations #978.20-B:

"“flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision."

That's it. That's the regulation. No description. No physical dimensions. Only regulates what it does, nothing else. If it is intended to act as a brake or compensator and is marketed that way.......it is legal.

The US Government/US Military calls the A2 device a compensator. It is obviously NOT enclosed at the end, yet remains fully legal and described as a brake/compensator.

bg
11-01-2009, 9:37 AM
I don't believe anyone would mistake my brake or 'eliminators" as
JP calls them with a flash suppressor..

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2210/713502/1205951/54977209.jpg

JP also sells some very clean looking tactical style compensators that would not
be mistaken for a flash suppressor. I may just change mine over to one of these.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php

http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/JPTRE-5.12S.85_176.JPG

RGERBER
08-19-2010, 10:13 AM
It sounds like a muzzle brake is legal and a flash is not.

Is this correct?

In addition, it appears some muzzle brakes look like a flash and is questionable – is this also correct.

In saying that, maybe I should just look for a muzzle brake that looks like a muzzle brake it would seem the safe way to go.

So what is the definition of a muzzle brake?

One more question, do you guy’s think the people who shoot people worry about if the tip of the gun they are shooting people with is legal or not?

Or is it just the law-abiding people who worry about that!!!

OlderThanDirt
08-19-2010, 11:39 AM
It sounds like a muzzle brake is legal and a flash is not.

Is this correct?

In addition, it appears some muzzle brakes look like a flash and is questionable – is this also correct.

In saying that, maybe I should just look for a muzzle brake that looks like a muzzle brake it would seem the safe way to go.

So what is the definition of a muzzle brake?

One more question, do you guy’s think the people who shoot people worry about if the tip of the gun they are shooting people with is legal or not?

Or is it just the law-abiding people who worry about that!!!

Have you been hanging out with Gravedigger?