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bu-bye
04-26-2005, 12:42 PM
I friend of mine told me that it is not required to tranfer a rifle through a dealer. He said that for one, when a rifle is bought the S/N is not linked to the buyer unlike a pistol, and two, the DOJ is required to trash all paperwork reguarding the purches of a rifle after a week or something like that. Not sure how much of that is true. The first part I can see ture because no record of the rifle S/N was ever taken from what I saw but that second one seems a bit odd for a state that tracks guns like a dad does to his daughter on prom night. Can someone please shine some light on this subject. I don't want to have to pay for the transfer if its not needed and I don't want to screw my buddy if it is needed.

Thanks

bu-bye
04-26-2005, 12:42 PM
I friend of mine told me that it is not required to tranfer a rifle through a dealer. He said that for one, when a rifle is bought the S/N is not linked to the buyer unlike a pistol, and two, the DOJ is required to trash all paperwork reguarding the purches of a rifle after a week or something like that. Not sure how much of that is true. The first part I can see ture because no record of the rifle S/N was ever taken from what I saw but that second one seems a bit odd for a state that tracks guns like a dad does to his daughter on prom night. Can someone please shine some light on this subject. I don't want to have to pay for the transfer if its not needed and I don't want to screw my buddy if it is needed.

Thanks

imported_Telpierion
04-26-2005, 1:01 PM
You need to go throuh an FFL unless the rifle is C&R and over 50 years old. As far as far as stuff not being recorded and trashed that may or may not be true. But the law says you must go through an FFL.

bwiese
04-26-2005, 1:39 PM
Except for limited Curio & Relic cases (of which others here can tell you more) all firearm transfers in CA have to be intermediated via an FFL dealer. This became active 1 Jan 91.

[There _may_ also be a way that private party transfer paper can be done in a sheriff's office or police dept, but I can't quite remember - that may just've been a proposal, or limited to areas w/small populations.]

CA gun dealers are required to perform transfers. (However, they do not have to do handgun transfers if they do not sell handguns.)

While CA rifle DROS records are (supposedly) destroyed, supporting paperwork of 4473, etc. is still on file at gunshop who orig sold the gun (or has been filed w/BATF in Landover, MD if FFL has ceased gun business operations). If there are questions about a gun, this paper information could possibly be dug up even though not computerized.

If firearm in question was manufactured after 1/1/91, or was sold to someone other than you after 1/1/91, paperwork could be dug up to demonstrate that (if your possession of this gun were ever questioned), and the gun's history in & of itself could essentially testify that you broke the law.

If the gun was manufactured a reasonable time frame before 1 Jan 1991, and there is no other paperwork existing that shows it being owned by someone other than you after 1/1/91, then there should be sufficient 'reasonable doubt' of the illegality of your possesssion: there are many many many 'unpapered' guns out there, many possessed entirely legitimately because these unpapered transfers happened before 1/1/91.

While the above paragraph may be comforting, if questions somehow start being asked about the gun you're also (perhaps) depending on
prior owners(s) clamming up - which might not happen if under subpoena.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

imported_Telpierion
04-26-2005, 1:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Except for limited Curio & Relic cases (of which others here can tell you more) all firearm transfers in CA have to be intermediated via an FFL dealer. This became active 1 Jan 91. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oh, believe there are also exceptions for parent to adult child, spouse to spouse, and grandparent to adult grandchild but I don't know the specifics.

bwiese
04-26-2005, 2:10 PM
Except for limited C&R (Curio & Relic) cases (others here can tell you more), essentially all firearm transfers in California have to be intermediated via an FFL dealer. This became active law Jan 1, 1991.

[There _may_ also be ways that private party transfer papers can be done in a sheriff's office/police dept, but I can't quite remember: that may just've been a proposal, or limited to areas w/small populations.]

CA gun dealers are required to perform transfers. (However, they don't have to do handgun transfers if they don't sell handguns.)

While CA rifle DROS records are supposedly destroyed, supporting paperwork of 4473s, etc. is still on file at gunshop who originally sold the gun (or has been filed w/BATF in Landover, MD if FFL has ceased gun business operations). If there are questions about a gun, this paper information could possibly be dug up even though not computerized.

If firearm in question was manufactured after 1/1/91, or was sold to someone other than you after 1/1/91, paperwork could be dug up to demonstrate that (if your possession of this gun were ever questioned), and the gun's history in & of itself could essentially testify that you broke the law.

If the gun was manufactured a reasonable time frame before 1 Jan 1991, and there is no other paperwork existing that shows it being owned by someone other than you after 1/1/91, then there should be sufficient 'reasonable doubt' of the illegality of your possesssion: there are many many many 'unpapered' guns out there, many possessed entirely legitimately because these unpapered transfers happened before 1/1/91.

While the above paragraph may be comforting, if questions somehow start being asked about the gun you're also (perhaps) depending on
prior owners(s) clamming up - which might not happen if under subpoena.



Bill Wiese
San Jose

stillbigmac
04-26-2005, 3:43 PM
The transfer is supposed to go through an FFl to be sure the buyer is eligable not to register the rifle.

bu-bye
04-26-2005, 6:05 PM
Ok thanks guys. It makes sense now about my friends comments. He has bought and sold a number of rifles all being old WWII guns made WAAAAAYY before 1991. For him there was no need to see a dealer to buy or sell those guns. The rifle in question is new nd would require a visit to my dealer. Thanks guys for all the info.