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bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 3:09 PM
last month my grandfather passed away. he promised us (his grandchildren) his guns verbally many times. long story short, he did not have a will and his guns were sold off within hours of him passing before any of our family could intervene.

i was able to buy two of his rifles back from the buyer today.

the ones with the most resale value and the most sentimental value to us, he decided to keep for himself.

on top is an Ithaca x5 lighting .22LR
on bottom is a Ruger 10/22 - serial number indicates production around 1973

anyone know of any resources to find Ithaca serial number information? i tried: http://www.diamondgunsmithing.com but couldn't find any info for the X5 lightning.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o7/bboylxix/gjuagsfjs011.jpg

strangerdude
10-25-2009, 3:10 PM
Who the heck sold them?

bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 3:14 PM
my grandmother and my aunt were panicking about how they would pay for the funeral. before anyone even knew what was going on, the guns were sold... before the coroner arrived i might add.

Bobotheclown
10-25-2009, 3:26 PM
Glad you got some back.

The only info I can find on the ithaca was that it was made from 1958 to 1964.

Here's a listing for a magazine (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=143187642) for the rifle. You should contact him if you're looking for another one.

Dr Rockso
10-25-2009, 3:26 PM
my grandmother and my aunt were panicking about how they would pay for the funeral. before anyone even knew what was going on, the guns were sold... before the coroner arrived i might add.
Didn't they go to the aunt's brother-in-law or something?

bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 3:34 PM
Didn't they go to the aunt's brother-in-law or something?

close. it was my aunts son-in-law. (cousins husband) he just happened to be there at the right time for him, wrong time for us. he knows he pretty much holds all the cards. not much i could do to convince him to set things right.

im glad i got some back, but it still bugs me he made off with the most important ones to me - example: the first gun i ever shot as a kid, and the rifle on my first hunting trip.

bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 3:37 PM
Glad you got some back.

The only info I can find on the ithaca was that it was made from 1958 to 1964.

Here's a listing for a magazine (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=143187642) for the rifle. You should contact him if you're looking for another one.

thanks for the info, love you guys! rock on Calguns :D

kurac
10-25-2009, 4:08 PM
I hate to hear stories like this, how come the women never sell of there jewelry when they need some cash.

wash
10-25-2009, 5:32 PM
I hate to hear stories like this, how come the women never sell of there jewelry when they need some cash.
Because jewelry rarely holds it's value...

Fate
10-25-2009, 7:45 PM
close. it was my aunts son-in-law. (cousins husband) he just happened to be there at the right time for him, wrong time for us. he knows he pretty much holds all the cards. not much i could do to convince him to set things right.

im glad i got some back, but it still bugs me he made off with the most important ones to me - example: the first gun i ever shot as a kid, and the rifle on my first hunting trip.
I would explain this to him...personally. You know which of I speak. Nut up and he WILL sell them back to you.

Seesm
10-25-2009, 8:49 PM
I woudl beat his a*S if he would NOT give my grandpa's guns back...TOTAL BullSH*T Not a threat but how it would go down...

slik556
10-25-2009, 9:12 PM
I hate to hear stories like this, how come the women never sell of there jewelry when they need some cash.

Because some... not all, but some women cant find a purse and earrings that will go with an old classic shotgun...:rolleyes:

norcal77
10-25-2009, 10:36 PM
I woudl beat his a*S if he would NOT give my grandpa's guns back...TOTAL BullSH*T Not a threat but how it would go down...

^This

Freagan
10-25-2009, 10:39 PM
I would blacklist your cousin and her husband from ever participating in any family get together or activity, and basically kick them out of the family if they tried to pull that on everyone else. That is just wrong, I can kind of understand his point of view since he married into the family and holds no sentimental value, but his wife should simply be ashamed of herself.

bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 10:46 PM
I would explain this to him...personally. You know which of I speak. Nut up and he WILL sell them back to you.

i did explain all this to him in person. he still wouldnt have it. he claims they mean something to him too - guess my grandson/grandfather bond is null according to him. not much i can do at this point. im sure what comes around goes around, although i really hate having that philosophy.

at least i know where the guns are and that they arent going anywhere, but i could think of a hundred other people id feel more comfortable with having them than him.

bboyin4food
10-25-2009, 10:52 PM
I would blacklist your cousin and her husband from ever participating in any family get together or activity, and basically kick them out of the family if they tried to pull that on everyone else. That is just wrong, I can kind of understand his point of view since he married into the family and holds no sentimental value, but his wife should simply be ashamed of herself.

surprisingly, they dont participate much anyways. and trust me, im not the only one in the family that feels this way. everyone got screwed by his actions. all my cousins were promised a gun, and in his eyes he sees that he is dishing out the guns fairly. i have yet to see how.

torsf
10-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Wonder how long before you see them on gunbroker :(

My family took care of a great-uncle for years, and had my father as executor of his will & power of attorney. My uncle's sister visited him in the hospital with a will she wrote, and well, it turned out like this situation.

The entire thing sucks. I hope you are able to get at least a few more of the guns...

PutTogether
10-25-2009, 11:22 PM
That is a dick move if I ever heard of one.

I've noticed guns move fast after someone has died. Sometimes even sooner than the cash around the house.

I collect coins. My entire collection is valued in the lower side of five figure territory. I have friends that have collections in the same dollar range, and some much higher. WE ALL have explicit instructiosn written down in a safe place as to what to do with our coins when we die.

A full inventory that says:
1) Date we bought the coin and what we paid.
2) Approximate Low, Middle, and High Value (which we update every few years)
3) A suggestion of who they should speak to regarding the liquidation of each coin. Trusted dealers, friends, fellow collectors. People that would be interested in owning our coins, not just looking to prey on an unsuspecting grieving widow. Plus, the market for coins can be thing. A silver dollar specialist may not be into early american copper - so you have to keep the list, along with contact info, specific to your collection.
4)A list of people, who even if they may not be buyers, can offer sound advice as to what to do. (what should be kept vs sold for instance)
5) We try to keep an absolute, FLOOR value written down. Like if you are in dire financial straights, absolutely need the cash, and have no other method, go ahead and liquidate them all at one shot, but don't you dare take less than "$X." I also include a "Sorry honey, but these will NEVER be worth more than $Y" too just for fun.

Some of you guys have gun collections that I'm sure could rival or surpass my coin collection in value - you should consider doing the same thing.

B.D.Dubloon
10-26-2009, 12:20 AM
That sucks.

Without knowing how instrumental he was in crafting the deal to have the guns sold to himself, all I know is that your Grandmother and Aunt screwed you all. Your cousin in law was (presumably) offered a good deal and he took it. Kinda ruthless, but savvy. If I'd been around and you Grandma offered to sell them to me at a good price I'd have bought them myself. Did he pay a fair amount for the guns? How much did he pay for how many/what guns?

Your Grandfather was presumably of sound mind when he said he was going to give the guns to you grandkids, there is no reason that I know of to assume that he didn't know that in the absence of a will that his possessions would go to his wife when he died. They were your Grandma's guns. She sold them, now they belong to your cousin's husband.

What I would do if I were you and interested in getting the guns for sentimental reasons, is to offer to buy him new versions of those guns and swap them with him. If he doesn't do it, then probably the guns do actually hold some sentimental value for him, or (less likely) he is such a dick that he'd cut off his own nose just to mess up the portrait at family reunions.

B Strong
10-26-2009, 5:10 AM
close. it was my aunts son-in-law. (cousins husband) he just happened to be there at the right time for him, wrong time for us. he knows he pretty much holds all the cards. not much i could do to convince him to set things right.

im glad i got some back, but it still bugs me he made off with the most important ones to me - example: the first gun i ever shot as a kid, and the rifle on my first hunting trip.

I'm sorry to hear this, but it happens way too many times with firearms collectors/shooters - if you own firearms, put down in writing what you want done with them after your passing - and it's best to have a decent appraisal included as well just in case.

I've heard too many stories of widows cheated out of the true value of their late husband's collection when they pass.

bboyin4food
10-26-2009, 6:10 AM
My grandfather was a very stubborn man and i guess had too much faith in his family to keep his word. this all would have been avoided with a will.

Did he pay a fair amount for the guns? How much did he pay for how many/what guns?

5 guns were sold for 1k. he must have been a happy man that day.
12g winchester
the two .22lrs in the pic.
a 30-06 scoped rifle
and
an old ruger .22lr revolver

i KNOW my grandfather had MANY more than that but according to the people in question. that was all that was there. *cough*cough* bull**** :mad:

My family took care of a great-uncle for years, and had my father as executor of his will & power of attorney. My uncle's sister visited him in the hospital with a will she wrote, and well, it turned out like this situation.

i have heard of this SO many times its disgusting. but it really sucks when it happens to you

What I would do if I were you and interested in getting the guns for sentimental reasons, is to offer to buy him new versions of those guns and swap them with him. If he doesn't do it, then probably the guns do actually hold some sentimental value for him, or (less likely) he is such a dick that he'd cut off his own nose just to mess up the portrait at family reunions.

i offered the exact same thing you suggested. he wouldnt go for it. i believe that they do hold some sentimental value for him, im not denying that. but my argument to him was whatever bond he had, i doubt its stronger than grandson/grandfather - that got no response out of him except "nope, im not selling those 2"

Wonder how long before you see them on gunbroker
that was my first worry. but he has assured me he will not be selling them, even to me. guess i have no choice but to take his "word" for it. u bet if they do pop up, u r going to see the most ruthless bidding war in your life :p

Dr Pete
10-26-2009, 7:07 AM
Couple of suggestions.
Can your Grandma talk some sense into him?
He SHOULD listen to her?
I assume he can legally own a gun? You know where I am going with this question ;)
Might be worth looking into. Don't know how you would go about that since he already has possession and no legal way of asking now that I know of?

Sorry for the loss of your Grandfather, keep positive attitude and see what happens.

Dirtbiker
10-26-2009, 8:08 AM
What a D**K, that's all I have to say.

Fate
10-26-2009, 9:24 AM
You misunderstand. Talk with him New York style. Hard to use those guns with broken fingers. ;)

Or you could go the Chicago way. Blackmail him. I'm betting some of those guns weren't C&R. Unless they were transferred thru a FFL, he's screwed. No family up/down exemption as he's not blood descendent of Grandma. Tell him to sell you back the guns or you're calling the cops on an illegal sale.

Turn the screws.

Ladyfox
10-26-2009, 12:51 PM
Or you could go the Chicago way. Blackmail him. I'm betting some of those guns weren't C&R. Unless they were transferred thru a FFL, he's screwed. No family up/down exemption as he's not blood descendent of Grandma. Tell him to sell you back the guns or you're calling the cops on an illegal sale.

Turn the screws.

Actually this may not be a bad idea especially since it would give you legal grounds that the person would not be able to argue. Just do consider however that if you do go this route make VERY sure you have paperwork and a lawyer to back you up so that there will be no doubt during the entire process. A threat is no good if you are not going to back it up with action.

usmcchet9296
10-26-2009, 1:03 PM
neither do women. . . .:rolleyes:
amen brother :D

B.D.Dubloon
10-26-2009, 1:06 PM
Or you could go the Chicago way. Blackmail him. I'm betting some of those guns weren't C&R. Unless they were transferred thru a FFL, he's screwed. No family up/down exemption as he's not blood descendent of Grandma. Tell him to sell you back the guns or you're calling the cops on an illegal sale.

Turn the screws.

This would get Granny in trouble.

Ladyfox
10-27-2009, 4:24 PM
This would get Granny in trouble.

And your point is?

Consider this, if it does turn out that an illegal transfer occurred I think Granny getting into trouble will be the least of it. Most especially if these actually get sold again or get used during the commission of a crime.

Also consider what will happen if it comes out that he knew that this possibly was not kosher and instead of reporting it hid the facts? Nothing good I would imagine.

Either way it's the OP choice to decide what to do but if something illegal happened I'd report it regardless of who was involved since the price of not doing so would be much worse than just getting someone into trouble.

LesGrossman41510
10-27-2009, 4:41 PM
he sounds like a Dbag.

Dr Pete
10-27-2009, 4:44 PM
Actually if this is the case (getting Granny) into trouble maybe the d..khead will relinquish and become a member of society ;)
He probably doesn't give a sh.t about Granny either since not blood relative.
Worth looking into thou.
This kind of crap pisses me off, all my parents stuff is written down, I have copies and they have originals in their safe.
No will, living trust.
Death and taxes.

Adrien
10-27-2009, 5:53 PM
What a shame. I was lucky enough to inherit some very nice firearms when my Grandfather passed. Sorry for your loss, on both fronts.

Adrien