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Sampachi
10-25-2009, 2:50 PM
Wasn't sure if I should post this question here or in the handguns area.

There is a revolver I'm interested in purchasing that is is not on the drop list nor is it C&R. The parent company hasn't been in business for a longtime. I seem to recall that if the revolver is converted to Single Action Only, it is exempt from the drop list.
If this is so a) does anyone know of an out of state dealer/gunsmith who could do the work and b) know of an in-state, Bay Area dealer that would Dros it for me once the work is done?

Thanks in advance for any answers, suggestions or clarification.

bwiese
10-25-2009, 3:13 PM
There is a revolver I'm interested in purchasing that is is not on the
drop list nor is it C&R. The parent company hasn't been in business for
a longtime. I seem to recall that if the revolver is converted to Single Action Only, it is exempt from the drop list.

For 12133PC single-action exemption for a gun imported into CA:
(1.) the gun must be "dimensionally compliant":
. . . . . holds at least 5 rounds min;
. . . . . has minimum barrel length of 3";
. . . . . has 7.5" min. of overall length parallel to bore when assembled.

(2.) due to murkiness about "importation" in 12125PC the gun's
single-action status should be achieved BEFORE crossing into CA.

It is perfectly legal after DROS & pickup to convert any single-action revolver to another legal configuration (double-action revolver, different caliber, whatever - just be non-AW, don't have an unrifled bbl, don't chamber shotgun shells). *BUT*...
TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS: As far as I know, this only is applicable
to Smith & Wesson revolvers (or clones thereof made on old or
licensed machinery, etc. - like Taurus & Rossi). It appears most if
not all Colt revovlers cannot be converted to SA mode, Rugers are
probably not (unsure) convertible, and "who knows" on others.S&W revolvers have the DA sear removed to render SA status. The bottom line is that there needs to be a separate cocking behavior and a separate firing behavior that require two separate/independent human actions. The gun must be tested after reassembly to operate in SA only mode. IN PARTICULAR it must work OK otherwise and not just be regarded "as a broken gun".

Note that California's single-action status is undefined and industry expertise would form definition. SA status does NOT imply "cowboy-revolver" looking, nor does it legally include any issues regarding style of cylinder (drop-out cyl. on yoke/crane system vs. revolve on removable base-pin plus load-in-place via loading gate).


If this is so a) does anyone know of an out of state dealer/gunsmith who could do the work and
b) know of an in-state, Bay Area dealer that would Dros it for me once the work is done?Hmm. Dunno. Some outta-state gunsmiths may be scared of "California". Some may do the work for the individual on the other side but not ship. That may be the best outcome - have the other guy have the gunsmith do the work. Then your non-FFL seller ships the gun to your CA FFL after carefully reviewing work.

Are you buying this from an individual? If so, that's good - no CFLC involved, etc.

If the seller is intelligent and has a gun screwdriver and some IQ and does not mar the screws or edge of sideplate, he could do it himself on S&Ws.

Please PM me with the make/model/ etc of revolver.

I am (likely) the first importer of a non-rostered S&W 14-3 (factory) single-action revolver using the single-action exemption [direct sale, not PPT, etc.]. I did this thru a Bay Area FFL. He did this for me because he knows I know my sh*t and I don't screw up.

Speaking for The Calguns Foundation, CGF will defend any buyer/FFL etc who legitimately (i.e, gets everything right and tests gun etc.) exploits a revolver's single-action status from charges or DOJ harassment (won't happen). Already, the similar 12133PC "single-shot exemption" is being used to configure/import dimensionally compliant non-AW AR and AK pistols (6" min bbl length, 10.5" min overall length).

Sampachi
10-25-2009, 5:23 PM
Thanks Bill. I sent you a PM.

Black_Talon
10-25-2009, 5:38 PM
I am (likely) the first importer of a non-rostered S&W 14-3 (factory) single-action revolver using the single-action exemption [direct sale, not PPT, etc.]. I did this thru a Bay Area FFL. He did this for me because he knows I know my sh*t and I don't screw up.

And here's a few pics of Bill's ex-M-14 factory single action. It belongs to me now. It came to me not via a PPT, but was sent by Bill to my FFL who entered into his bound book and transferred it directly to me using the "Single Action Exemption" to the stupid DOJ list.
http://www.black-talon.org/RKBA/guns/Pistols/S&W_M14_SA_L_1000.jpg

Factory S&W single action lockwork. Note the hammer with no double-action sear, nor any provision to fit one:
http://www.black-talon.org/RKBA/guns/Pistols/S&W_M14_SA_R_int_0800.jpg

bwiese
10-25-2009, 6:59 PM
BlackTalon,

It was a pleasure doing biz with you. I am glad the M14-3 is in a good home.

Shoot it like you stole it.

dfletcher
10-25-2009, 11:08 PM
For 12133PC single-action exemption for a gun imported into CA:
[INDENT] (1.) the gun must be "dimensionally compliant":
. . . . . holds at least 5 rounds min;
. . . . . has minimum barrel length of 3";
. . . . . has 7.5" min. of overall length parallel to bore when assembled.

TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS: [/B][I]As far as I know, this only is applicable
to Smith & Wesson revolvers (or clones thereof made on old or
licensed machinery, etc. - like Taurus & Rossi). It appears most if
not all Colt revovlers cannot be converted to SA mode, Rugers are
probably not (unsure) convertible, and "who knows" on others.



Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I don't see any problem converting the old style Colt revolvers - OM Trooper or Python, the "D" frame line also. The pin holding in the DA sear is (much) tougher to remove than the Smith, but once done I don't think removal causes function issues.

Don't know much about the Rugers, but my guess is they're probably able to be converted.

Again, I could be wrong but just mentally going through the nuts & bolts of the change I can't see any dead end.

bwiese
10-26-2009, 12:48 AM
Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I don't see any problem converting the old style Colt revolvers - OM Trooper or Python, the "D" frame line also. The pin holding in the DA sear is (much) tougher to remove than the Smith, but once done I don't think removal causes function issues.

Don't know much about the Rugers, but my guess is they're probably able to be converted.

Again, I could be wrong but just mentally going through the nuts & bolts of the change I can't see any dead end.

You could be right. Someone had discussed this with me on the S&W Forum and had supposed knowledge of Colts.

I need to go to Kuhnhausen's books to check.

What I don't want is someone misunderstanding something and DROSing an unsafe handgun because the behavior wasn't checked properly in, say, Utah. Leave that illegality to the cops that wanna buy Taurus Judges :)

510dat
10-26-2009, 2:41 PM
Does the revolver have to stay single action once it's been imported, or can it be converted back to DA/SA after its been DROS'd?

DarkHorse
10-26-2009, 3:43 PM
Does the revolver have to stay single action once it's been imported, or can it be converted back to DA/SA after its been DROS'd?

Per bweise:
...
It is perfectly legal after DROS & pickup to convert any single-action revolver to another legal configuration (double-action revolver, different caliber, whatever - just be non-AW, don't have an unrifled bbl, don't chamber shotgun shells). *BUT*...

bwiese
10-26-2009, 3:56 PM
Does the revolver have to stay single action once it's been imported,
or can it be converted back to DA/SA after its been DROS'd?

Once you have taken legal possession of a handgun, you can change it to any other legal form or configuration.... this would include common or less common changes such as (but not limited to):


single-action to/from double-action;
centerfire to/from rimfire;
caliber change;
barrel length change;
single-shot status to/from semiauto or revolver status;
grips, sights, etc. [see below for exception];



... but NOT including (and not limited to)

forward pistol grip - Fed NFA issues with "AOW";
conversion to a generic Calif AW defined by 12276.1PC;
use of a smoothbore unrifled barrel;
conversion to "unconventional pistol"
chambering a shotgun shell;