PDA

View Full Version : The SFPD confiscated my Dad's guns


Brick_Top
10-24-2009, 10:45 AM
My Dad passed away of natural causes in his apartment and the San Francisco Police Dept. were the first ones on the scene. They told me if was their policy that they must secure any firearms on the scene and that I couldn't get them back until after the the medical examiner issued the report. I called the SFPD while I was waiting for the report and after much transferring of phone calls was told the same thing.

After almost two months the report was finally issued, I called back now they tell me "Well we aren't going to just give you the guns back, you have to get approval from the CalDOJ first and then you can talk to an inspector." It would have been nice to know this two months ago because the approval usually takes a month to process apparently. Then I have to somehow prove I am the only heir to the inspector and that the guns should go to me. There was no probate, as he didn't have a large estate.

I have filed the Law Enforcement Gun Release application with the DOJ and am waiting. Does anyone have any experience with this? I feel like I have been getting the run around and that it is only going to get worse. Thanks for any advice.

SJgunguy24
10-24-2009, 10:53 AM
All I can say is you need to fire off some PM.s to the "People in the know".
But if they jerk you around too much I have a feeling somebody will give you some help.

dantodd
10-24-2009, 11:13 AM
I have filed the Law Enforcement Gun Release application with the DOJ and am waiting. Does anyone have any experience with this? I feel like I have been getting the run around and that it is only going to get worse. Thanks for any advice.

I'm sorry for your loss. Good luck with the guns. The SFPD will continue to give you the run around. I'm sure that the people who know these sorts of things will be along shortly to give guidance.

Wulf
10-24-2009, 11:21 AM
My Dad passed away of natural causes in his apartment and the San Francisco Police Dept. were the first ones on the scene. They told me if was their policy that they must secure any firearms on the scene and that I couldn't get them back until after the the medical examiner issued the report. I called the SFPD while I was waiting for the report and after much transferring of phone calls was told the same thing.

Is that policy or law? Does anybody know.

I've never heard of gun collection as a routine part of this process.

berto
10-24-2009, 11:22 AM
Sorry for your loss.

Contact bwiese with a pm. He'll set you on the right path.

Amacias805
10-24-2009, 11:26 AM
if they confiscated any non AW long rifles that is breaking the law. because your father could've gifted them to you with no other paper work. so by that fact, they could've taken your guns without due process of the law


Im pretty sure it is also illegal to for handguns but i know they do have a record for handguns....

and AW while they may not be transferable last i checked, you have like 90 days to surrender them, or remove them from the state after a death of a parent or grand parent

M. Sage
10-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Once in police possession, yes you do need to file a LEGR to get the guns back out.

I'm sorry you have to go through all this BS.

hoffmang
10-24-2009, 11:32 AM
As things stand, go through the LEGR process and assertively demand they release the firearms to you once you have the LEGR back.

If you don't get them back within about 10 days after presenting them with the LEGR, contact BWiese or me.

-Gene

bwiese
10-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Let the LEGR run its course - it's kinda just like DROSing.

If you get further runaround, contact us.

In theory they don't have great justification for taking heritable household belongings, but let's not fight that battle - just file the LEGR/pay fee and go thru the proper motions. If they still delay, then we can have fun.

I am sorry to hear about you losing your dad. But you will end up having his firearms in his memory.

technique
10-24-2009, 11:52 AM
Sorry for your loss...

rips31
10-24-2009, 11:57 AM
Condolences. Hope it all works out.

BigBrassMonkey
10-24-2009, 12:40 PM
Sorry for your loss. Don't let the gun problem distract you from all the good memories. Isn't it strange though that those that we pay to protect us end up being the ones we have to fight?

Quser.619
10-24-2009, 12:52 PM
Condolences about your loss & outrage over another over-stepping of the law.

BigDogatPlay
10-24-2009, 12:55 PM
Respectful condolences for the loss of your dad.

The advice from Bill and Gene is straight up, play the process by the rules and if SFPD stonewalls you then "the right people" can teach them a lesson.

savageevo
10-24-2009, 1:07 PM
Sorry for your loss, I know someday this will happen to us all and I want my kids to have what I worked hard to get. Just be assured that you also are part our family too, Calgunners, and we stand behind each other.

FastFinger
10-24-2009, 1:41 PM
For those of us with elderly parents, or just parents, who own guns, and the parents are amenable to us owning them upon their passing - what steps (other than removing the firearms from their homes prior to passing) should we take to try avoid this type of scenario?

artherd
10-24-2009, 1:42 PM
All guns that LE takes in cannot be released without a LEGR. Most beat cops don't even know this, as all they do is take.

If they stonewall you for any reason after you have the LEGR, contact us.

Also, since it's been 60 days you might want to send them a certified letter stating your interest in the property, your desire to retrieve it immediately, and that you are in progress of the LEGR at the department's request.

That way it is impossible for them to claim you abandoned the guns.

artherd
10-24-2009, 1:43 PM
For those of us with elderly parents, or just parents, who own guns, and the parents are amenable to us owning them upon their passing - what steps (other than removing the firearms from their homes prior to passing) should we take to try avoid this type of scenario?

a safe.

gunsmith
10-24-2009, 1:45 PM
sorry for your loss, sfpd are normally ok folks, upper management excluded.
I hope they don't pull a Katrina and foul up the guns.
good luck.

MindBuilder
10-24-2009, 2:05 PM
My guess is that they won't release the guns to anyone but the executor of the estate. If the estate is worth less than $100,000 and there is no land or houses owned, then you may be able to do the probate without going to court. But since you won't be going to court, I guess you won't have an official declaration by the court that you are the executor. I think the rather odd rule for small estates is that anyone can just declare themselves to be executor, as long as nobody objects. Of course the SFPD might not go for something that simple. As executor you would have certain legal responsibilities, such as notifying other heirs and selling off the guns to pay debts if necessary. You could probably buy the guns from the estate, but since that might be a conflict of interest, you had better use the right procedure to protect yourself from creditors. You're going to at least need a book on how to do a probate, if you don't get a lawyer.

Brick_Top
10-24-2009, 2:11 PM
Thank you everyone for your advice and condolences. I will wait for the LEGR to be processed and then take it from there. My Dad's guns hold a lot of sentimental value to me because he loved them so much. I'm glad Calguns is here in case they try to keep me from getting them back.

It's times like this that I realize just how important having a community like Calguns is to gun owners. I will definitely be sending a donation to CGF. Thank you Gene and Bill for your hard work on our behalf. :rockon:

jamesob
10-24-2009, 2:14 PM
i the case of an unattended death, it was our policy to take any firearms that would have been left there without anybody else in the house. it was not uncommon for the house to get broken into that nite or the next day because they knew that nobody would be there. so just you will have to do the b.s that they want you to do.

MindBuilder
10-24-2009, 2:27 PM
You might not want to wait for the LEGR to be processed before finding out exactly what the SFPD will require to release the guns. They may require a court order just to make it hard on you. If that's the case then you'll want to get the probate process going so the LEGR won't pass the 30 day expiration while you're waiting for the court order. Don't ask them if they'll require a court order because that might give them the bad idea to require it. Just ask what exactly they're going to want.

Brick_Top
10-24-2009, 2:39 PM
Also, since it's been 60 days you might want to send them a certified letter stating your interest in the property, your desire to retrieve it immediately, and that you are in progress of the LEGR at the department's request.

That way it is impossible for them to claim you abandoned the guns.

I had thought about this but the woman at the department said don't worry about, they hold guns for a long time. Not sure if I should trust that though. Thanks for the heads up.

Brick_Top
10-24-2009, 2:45 PM
You might not want to wait for the LEGR to be processed before finding out exactly what the SFPD will require to release the guns. They may require a court order just to make it hard on you. If that's the case then you'll want to get the probate process going so the LEGR won't pass the 30 day expiration while you're waiting for the court order. Don't ask them if they'll require a court order because that might give them the bad idea to require it. Just ask what exactly they're going to want.

That's a good point. The woman down there seemed to be saying that I couldn't discuss anything with an inspector until I had the LEGR but you are right that they may try and get me to jump through some hoops that will take longer than a month.

I'm not going through probate but have been using the section 13100 procedure for estates worth less than $100,000. I need to get an affidavit for the collection of personal property and present that to them once the LEGR clears.

I think I will go down there again and see if I can talk to an inspector to make sure that will be enough for them to release the guns to me.

SickofSoCal
10-24-2009, 2:57 PM
The SFPD confiscated my Dad's guns

Don't you mean "stole"?

They stole private property.

MiguelS
10-24-2009, 3:15 PM
Don't you mean "stole"?

They stole private property.

You should read post #22.

Maybe they actually saved the guns.

You have no idea how the guns were stored, maybe they were laying on his dresser or in the kitchen?

Hoop
10-24-2009, 3:26 PM
i the case of an unattended death, it was our policy to take any firearms that would have been left there

+1

An old man I knew passed away awhile back and it only took 1 day for the ****bags to rob his place.

B Strong
10-24-2009, 3:28 PM
My Dad passed away of natural causes in his apartment and the San Francisco Police Dept. were the first ones on the scene. They told me if was their policy that they must secure any firearms on the scene and that I couldn't get them back until after the the medical examiner issued the report. I called the SFPD while I was waiting for the report and after much transferring of phone calls was told the same thing.

After almost two months the report was finally issued, I called back now they tell me "Well we aren't going to just give you the guns back, you have to get approval from the CalDOJ first and then you can talk to an inspector." It would have been nice to know this two months ago because the approval usually takes a month to process apparently. Then I have to somehow prove I am the only heir to the inspector and that the guns should go to me. There was no probate, as he didn't have a large estate.

I have filed the Law Enforcement Gun Release application with the DOJ and am waiting. Does anyone have any experience with this? I feel like I have been getting the run around and that it is only going to get worse. Thanks for any advice.

My condolences on your loss.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time I've heard of this wrt S.F.P.D.

My friend's father had a heart attack at home 4-5 years ago, his Mom called 911 and they had both paramedics and S.F.P.D. in the house.

When the officers saw the rifles in the glass fronted gun case, they not only confiscated the rifles, they lectured his mom about safe storage etc - his Dad died in the hospital.

He went through the LEGR process and got jerked around by the officer that he spoke with in person when he presented the LEGR. My friend had to get the family attorney involved to take possession of the rifles (no AW's OLL's, all standard bolt rifles)

Best of luck, and listen to Bill and Gene.

cortayack
10-24-2009, 3:30 PM
May your dad RIP...........Sorry for your loss................

Just wondering why the SFPD was first on the scene? On all my family members (not many) who passed (RIP), the police where every involved..

Diablo
10-24-2009, 3:30 PM
Sorry for your loss..

ZirconJohn
10-24-2009, 3:41 PM
Very sorry for your loss... if you and your dad were as close as my dad and I were... then I know how you feel.

You have hoffmang and bwiese on your side; therefore you are in good hands.

However, if you need an FFL... please contact me and I will be happy to help and pro bono of course. I'm pretty sure that means 'free' in the big city. Anyway... that's how we do it in the mountains:)

I remain,

jd

As things stand, go through the LEGR process and assertively demand they release the firearms to you once you have the LEGR back.

If you don't get them back within about 10 days after presenting them with the LEGR, contact BWiese or me.

-Gene

Let the LEGR run its course - it's kinda just like DROSing.

If you get further runaround, contact us.

In theory they don't have great justification for taking heritable household belongings, but let's not fight that battle - just file the LEGR/pay fee and go thru the proper motions. If they still delay, then we can have fun.

I am sorry to hear about you losing your dad. But you will end up having his firearms in his memory.

jamesob
10-24-2009, 3:46 PM
Very sorry for your loss... if you and your dad were as close as my dad and I were... then I know how you feel.

You have hoffmang and bwiese on your side; therefore you are in good hands.

However, if you need an FFL... please contact me and I will be happy to help and pro bono of course. I'm pretty sure that means 'free' in the big city. Anyway... that's how we do it in the mountains:)

I remain,

jd

i think "pro bono" means something totally different in s.f

ALSystems
10-24-2009, 3:49 PM
i the case of an unattended death, it was our policy to take any firearms that would have been left there without anybody else in the house. it was not uncommon for the house to get broken into that nite or the next day because they knew that nobody would be there. so just you will have to do the b.s that they want you to do.

This is a problem that is not unique to the SFPD. A similar problem happened in Ventura County. A single friend of mine died 11/2008. The police took all his guns. The family is still trying to retrieve them nearly a year later. They were told that because the death was accidental, they needed to wait for the results of an autopsy. That was months ago that an official report was issued. I don't understand why it should take many months to wrap this up. It seems like stonewalling or a runaround. After dozens of calls and all sort of excuses from the PD, the family have been promised some of the guns can finally be picked up. The rest are still in some sort of legal limbo.
:66:

ZirconJohn
10-24-2009, 3:50 PM
i think "pro bono" means something totally different in s.f

Hahahaaaaahaaa... don't want to jack this threrad, all respect to the OP... but that's funny:smilielol5:

Seesm
10-24-2009, 5:53 PM
Bummer on your POp RIP dad!! Get your pops guns ASAP push... GL

Meplat
10-24-2009, 5:56 PM
My recent experience has been that the LEGR does not take the 30 to 60 days I was warned to expect.

Once in police possession, yes you do need to file a LEGR to get the guns back out.

I'm sorry you have to go through all this BS.

Meplat
10-24-2009, 6:09 PM
Bill:

I recently had to LEGR a recovered stolen pistol. I was told that if it was registered to me and I had reported the theft the fee would be waved. It was and it had, but the local police could not locate the report promptly, so I just paid the fee to expedite things.

My question is; would he have to pay the fee in this case?



Let the LEGR run its course - it's kinda just like DROSing.

If you get further runaround, contact us.

In theory they don't have great justification for taking heritable household belongings, but let's not fight that battle - just file the LEGR/pay fee and go thru the proper motions. If they still delay, then we can have fun.

I am sorry to hear about you losing your dad. But you will end up having his firearms in his memory.

Sky_DiveR
10-24-2009, 6:24 PM
i the case of an unattended death, it was our policy to take any firearms that would have been left there without anybody else in the house. it was not uncommon for the house to get broken into that nite or the next day because they knew that nobody would be there. so just you will have to do the b.s that they want you to do.

Makes sense. When my grandmother passed away, the house was broken into that night. She lived in a "not too good" part of town. Police were there I guess cuz she died at home alone. When my mother passed away at home, cops came, along with the Fire Dept. I guess it's policy for the cops to show up if the death happens at home... I assume to make sure nothing suspicious happened.

Deepest condolences to the OP. Let us know if you need help with funeral expenses and such.