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View Full Version : Columbus, OH: 70 y.o. Great-Grandma CCW'er vs 25 y.o. armed BG -- Guess Who Wins?


Paladin
10-23-2009, 10:28 PM
Well, I just found CCW'er vs BG(s) example #22! :D

It seems like it has been "Ladies' Week" for taking on BGs! :party: (I just noticed we lack any distinctly female smilies.)

In the other CCW'er thread I posted today, I pointed out how handguns are equalizers (female vs male; 1 vs 2; in that case, 1 female vs 2 male BGs). Well, this case shows that handguns also equalize age differences!

Just another example of why getting CA to "Shall Issue" or its equivalent is my #1 public policy priority.

Of course, urban CLEOs in CA don't want this sort of thing happening in their jurisdictions. :mad:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/10/23/Horse_shoot.ART_ART_10-23-09_A1_SGFF2MR.html

Great-grandmother who shot robber says 'God was with me'
Ironton woman not likely to be charged, police say
Friday, October 23, 2009 3:14 AM
BY JOHN FUTTY
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/images/oct/1023_Horse_shoot_Winston_a1_10-23-09_A1_31FF3JV.jpg
Wayne Winston

When an armed robber barged into a North Side motel room Wednesday night and ordered the six people there to the floor, he put a 70-year-old woman closer to her handgun.

The great-grandmother knelt between the beds, reached into her purse on the floor and pulled out her .357 Magnum pistol.

She fired one shot at the robber, who staggered from the room, collapsed in the parking lot and died.

"It's a wonder she didn't shoot us all," said her 51-year-old son, who was preparing to hand over his cash when he heard the gunshot. "She's the worst shot in the world.

"She said to me, 'God was with me tonight. You know I couldn't have done that myself.' "

None of the family members, who live in Ironton, wanted to be identified, fearing retaliation. The woman didn't want to be interviewed. They have moved to a different room in the motel.

"She's torn all to pieces," her son said. "Who would ever want to shoot someone?"

Wayne Winston, 25, died of a single gunshot wound in the chest, Franklin County Coroner Jan Gorniak said yesterday. Police listed his address as "streets of Columbus."

The woman has a permit to carry a concealed gun, her son said. She inherited the gun from her late husband.

Asked to describe his mother, he said, "Religious. She's always been my hero."

The family was staying in a first-floor room at the Continent Inn, near I-71 and Rt. 161, while attending the All American Quarter Horse Congress. The son said he was in the room with his mother, his wife, his daughter and son-in-law and a friend.

The door was partially open so the adults could stay within earshot of two girls, ages 12 and 17, in the room next door.

The son said the door flew open shortly after 9 p.m. and they found themselves confronted by a man who pointed a black handgun at them and said, "Everybody here knows what the game is." He told them to get on the floor and began demanding money from the son and his son-in-law, who were closest to the door. The gunman seemed angry that the son-in-law had only $14.

"I was going into my pocket for money" when a shot rang out and the gunman ran from the room, the son said. "I thought I was shot. I didn't realize my mother had shot him. It was mass chaos."

He still wasn't sure what had happened when he went outside and saw the intruder's body in the parking lot. Then he heard a second shot. His mother, the gun at her side, had tensed up and "squeezed off another shot into the floor," he said.

Columbus police don't expect to file charges against the woman but said the case probably will be presented to a Franklin County grand jury as a routine procedure. The son said the officers who met with his family were "extremely supportive."

He has a horse farm and is attending the Quarter Horse Congress to watch his 21-year-old daughter compete and to support others who train at his farm.

Word of the shooting spread quickly yesterday among those attending the event, which is in its third and final week at the Ohio Expo Center.

"That's a hell of a woman," said George Wyeth, 63, of Claysville, Pa. "I don't blame her a bit. You pull a gun on someone, you ought to get shot."

"I give her a lot of credit," said Beverly Hicks, 77, of Perrysburg in northwestern Ohio, who doesn't know many people her age who carry guns. "I'd be afraid to carry a gun."

Police Sgt. Ken Tischler, a community liaison officer, said armed robberies of motel guests near the Continent are rare, but he had warned people attending the Congress about a rash of vehicle break-ins at motels in the I-71 and Rt. 161 area -- 102 thefts from autos between mid-August and late September.

Paladin
10-23-2009, 10:33 PM
Looks like the BG had it coming to him.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/10/23/CASTLE.html

SHOOTING BY 70-YEAR-OLD WOMAN
Man killed in motel robbery had criminal record
Friday, October 23, 2009 9:42 PM
BY JEB PHILLIPS
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

A man shot and killed by a 70-year-old woman he was trying to rob in a North Side motel room was wanted in Missouri.

An arrest warrant was issued in August for Wayne M. Winston, 25, because he moved out of state without permission while on probation, said Jacqueline Lapine, a spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Corrections.

The probation came after a December 2008 arrest in St. Louis County for first-degree tampering with a vehicle, a felony.

Winston had just been released from prison in September 2008 after serving seven years for crimes that included second-degree burglary, stealing a firearm, possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance and three counts of stealing a motor vehicle, Lapine said.

Authorities say that Winston barged into a room at the Continent Inn, near I-71 and Rt. 161, on Wednesday night and ordered six people there to the floor.

One of the people, a 70-year-old great-grandmother, reached into her purse on the floor, pulled out a .357-caliber Magnum pistol and shot Winston once in the chest.

The woman's son, who was in the room during the robbery, said that the robber had a black handgun and demanded money.

The Ironton woman was staying at the motel with family members while attending the All American Quarter Horse Congress, her son said. The door of the first-floor room, which opens to a courtyard and parking lot, was ajar so the adults in the room could stay within earshot of two girls in the room next door.

Columbus police have not released the woman's name, and family members do not want to be identified for fear of retaliation.

According to Missouri court files, Winston's last address was in Florissant, a suburb of St. Louis. Columbus police listed his address as "streets of Columbus."

It wasn't clear why he had moved here from Missouri.

Columbus police say they don't expect to file charges against the woman but the case will be presented to a Franklin County grand jury. Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien said it is a long-standing policy to present any case of a death caused by a weapon to a grand jury, even if prosecutors are not seeking an indictment.

"It may seem like a waste of time in a case like this," O'Brien said, but it allows an independent group of citizens to review conclusions that authorities have reached.

O'Brien used the 2004 shootings at the Alrosa Villa nightclub as an example. A Columbus police officer shot and killed a man after the man had killed four people. Officer James Niggemeyer was called a hero, but a grand jury still reviewed his actions and cleared him of any wrongdoing.

The three-week long Quarter Horse Congress ends Sunday. The 70-year-old woman's son said that family members would return to Ironton sometime this weekend.

Kid Stanislaus
10-23-2009, 10:51 PM
Hey guys, never piss off an old woman with a gun!

Glock22Fan
10-23-2009, 10:53 PM
But, but, but -- I thought it was 4.3 times as dangerous to have a gun in a gunfight!

dantodd
10-23-2009, 10:56 PM
The son said the door flew open shortly after 9 p.m. and they found themselves confronted by a man who pointed a black handgun at them[/B] and said, "Everybody here knows what the game is." He told them to get on the floor and began demanding money

Apparently the bad guy didn't know "what the game is." Messin' with armed people is an unhealthy affair. I hope the woman isn't too badly affected by having to take a life in defense of hers and her family's.

Dr Rockso
10-23-2009, 10:58 PM
God made men (and old ladies), but Sam Colt made them equal.

Electricboy
10-23-2009, 10:59 PM
go grandma!!

Carnivore
10-24-2009, 12:34 AM
ROFL!!!! now that is gun control I can get behind.....WAY behind lol.

yellowfin
10-24-2009, 7:23 AM
From the description it sounds like a very impressive shot.

M. Sage
10-24-2009, 8:24 AM
One to the chest and he folds. Nice shot!

CABilly
10-24-2009, 8:31 AM
OooOOOooooOOoo he had a BLACK gun



If it were CA, she'd be charged for the ND after the fact and lose her CCW permit. They'd probably do that while the grand jury was processing the info and then use the fact that she lost her CCW due to ND against her in court.

Paladin
10-24-2009, 11:52 AM
OT, but . . .

70 y.o. great-grandmother pulls from her purse a .357 mag she inherited from her late husband and shoots BG once in the chest, killing him.

My guess is that the .357 mag. is a revolver because: (1) she inherited it from a guy who most likely was her age or older and .357 semis only came out in the early/mid-1980s and are very unusual; and (2) .357 semis are very large, not something a granny is likely to carry in her purse.

So, the odds are she was using a .357 mag revolver and, I further speculate, it was a 5 or 6-shot since, again because 7 and 8 shot .357 revolvers came out only in the early 2000s (and her husband probably bought his handgun when he was much younger).

Why all this speculation? Because many gunnies think that revolvers are virtually useless for SD nowadays, that if you don't carry a hicap semi you need your head examined. They try to get people who aren't and never will be gun enthusiasts to go for what may be tactically the best, even if it is not practical for the person who will be carrying it.

Here, just one shot from a .357 mag. (revolver?) took care of her problem.

Carry the gun that carries the most FBI and IWBA compliant rounds that you will actually carry everyday[/U] because you'll NEVER know when you'll need it ahead of time.

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program" . . . a good shoot by a 70 y.o. female CCW'er.

Dr Rockso
10-24-2009, 12:05 PM
Why all this speculation? Because many gunnies think that revolvers are virtually useless for SD nowadays, that if you don't carry a hicap semi you need your head examined. They try to get people who aren't and never will be gun enthusiasts to go for what may be tactically the best, even if it is not practical for the person who will be carrying it.

Here, just one shot from a .357 mag. (revolver?) took care of her problem.

Carry the gun that carries the most rounds that you will actually carry everyday because you'll NEVER know when you'll need it ahead of time.

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled program" . . . a good shoot by a 70 y.o. female CCW'er.

.38/.357 magnum revolvers are hugely popular for CCW in the shall-issue states. There's a good reason Ruger LCRs are selling like hotcakes. If I lived in one I would likely get a LCR or Smith with CT grips and not feel outgunned.

M. Sage
10-24-2009, 12:18 PM
Yep. Small 5-shot revolvers are fairly popular here. Heck, I have one (in .38 S&W - just a tad more powerful than .380 ACP, makes it a lot easier to shoot in a 2" barreled gun) that I can just drop in my pocket and forget about it.

Shot placement > Caliber or capacity.

dantodd
10-24-2009, 12:32 PM
Why all this speculation? Because many gunnies think that revolvers are virtually useless for SD nowadays, that if you don't carry a hicap semi you need your head examined.

I guess I hang out in the wrong places, I had no idea this was the accepted theory.


Carry the gun that carries the most rounds that you will actually carry everyday because you'll NEVER know when you'll need it ahead of time.

That doesn't seem right either, I'd rather have the 6 round .357 than a 10 round .22 revolver. Which means though I could carry either, I'd rather have fewer rounds in .357 than more in .22LR.

Paladin
10-24-2009, 12:38 PM
That doesn't seem right either, I'd rather have the 6 round .357 than a 10 round .22 revolver. Which means though I could carry either, I'd rather have fewer rounds in .357 than more in .22LR.Sometimes I don't state what to me is obvious. Here, that one's caliber (actually, cartridge) choice satisfies the FBI and IWBA standards. I shall edit my post accordingly.

Paladin
10-24-2009, 12:45 PM
I guess I hang out in the wrong places, . . .No, I probably do. ;)

rips31
10-24-2009, 1:02 PM
I'm waiting for the family member to say in an interview that he was such a great boy and turning his life around. <roll eyes>

dantodd
10-24-2009, 1:05 PM
Sometimes I don't state what to me is obvious. Here, that one's caliber (actually, cartridge) choice satisfies the FBI and IWBA standards. I shall edit my post accordingly.

I guess I should probably have not said the statement was wrong so much as overly broad. There are a lot of "right" solutions for different people and different situations. There's a reason Derringers are made and there's a reason Kimber does swift business in 1911's.

Mikeb
10-24-2009, 1:46 PM
Hey guys, never piss off an old woman with a gun!

I think you mean "respect all women, you never know what's in that purse".
take care
Mike

BigDogatPlay
10-24-2009, 1:52 PM
"That's a hell of a woman," said George Wyeth, 63, of Claysville, Pa. "I don't blame her a bit. You pull a gun on someone, you ought to get shot."

^^^ This ^^^

Well played. Sorry that she had to be put in the position, but very happy that she could defend herself and her family.

I am always mildly comforted when I travel around California that our otherwise largely ridiculous laws allow me to keep and carry a loaded, concealable firearm in my "temporary domicile".

Even the best hotels can have...... 'issues'.

Seesm
10-24-2009, 7:04 PM
Very happy to see this... AGAIN and AGAIN if BG's think your armed will they try to get at you? Shall issue is cool.

Colt
10-25-2009, 3:12 PM
Nice job by the lady. And yeah, I'm sure the decedent had moved to Ohio because he was in the process of turning his life around, finishing school, volunteering at church, adopting stray animals, etc......but he wsa just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Warhawk014
10-25-2009, 4:22 PM
.357 mag to the chest. thats got to leave a nice hole.

mblat
10-25-2009, 4:26 PM
God made men (and old ladies), but Sam Colt made them equal.

Who made .357? Damn - single shot in chest man is dead. May be I should keep revolver as my nightstand gun......

VW*Mike
10-25-2009, 4:29 PM
The cops should bake her a cake.

yellowfin
10-25-2009, 5:10 PM
Elmer Keith invented the .357, as well as the .41 and .44 mag. I want to get his books but they're VERY pricey.

GoodEyeSniper
10-25-2009, 8:55 PM
Good for her.

I wonder how the son feels, knowing he was powerless to protect all those women and children in his family, and relying on grandma to stop the threat.

strangerdude
10-25-2009, 9:05 PM
That's so awesome, it was probably this grandma.
kV59_if9vTw

locosway
10-25-2009, 9:07 PM
.357mag aint no joke...

Everyone says capacity is king, but there's something to be said for a magnum wheel gun placed in the right spot.

Meplat
10-25-2009, 11:11 PM
.357 Magnum is the answer. What was the question?:43:


One to the chest and he folds. Nice shot!

Meplat
10-25-2009, 11:41 PM
The .357 Mag. was developed in the 1930ís by S&W in collaboration with Elmer Keith. It is the all time most effective one shot fight stopper in handgun history. If you know you are going to a gunfight bring a long gun. If you are caught in a gunfight with a pistol, pray itís a .357.

locosway
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
The .357 Mag. was developed in the 1930ís by S&W in collaboration with Elmer Keith. It is the all time most effective one shot fight stopper in handgun history. If you know you are going to a gunfight bring a long gun. If you are caught in a gunfight with a pistol, pray itís a .357.

I still want a .44Mag. For some reason it draws me more than the .357Mag.

Meplat
10-25-2009, 11:48 PM
I know what you mean, but damn, they are a pain in the *** to pack around.:43:

I still want a .44Mag. For some reason it draws me more than the .357Mag.

yellowfin
10-26-2009, 12:54 AM
As great a performer as the .357 is, I somewhat dislike shooting them and absolutely hate being around someone else shooting one.