PDA

View Full Version : Help me win this bet!!


calnurse
10-23-2009, 7:09 PM
Okay here's the situation! My friend's father is going up to Sacramento from Daly City for business. While I am at their house visiting my friend, I notice his dad packing his revolver in a soft gun case and placed it in his suitcase. I said to him "That's cool Mr (deleted) that you got a CCW being Daly City is not a gun friendly town." He said he didn't have one but he can still bring it for protection while staying in a hotel. I told him he will get in trouble if he gets caught with it. He said "Listen, I know the laws and if you want to put your money where your mouth is, let's bet!!" He added "If you win, I'll buy you lunch. If I win, you'll buy me a case of beer." Help me out because lunch is on my mind now. Applebee's or Chevy's???:43:

sv_1
10-23-2009, 7:22 PM
Was it loaded? Was the suitcase locked, or put in his trunk?

Fjold
10-23-2009, 7:26 PM
If he put an unloaded gun in a locked suitcase or in the trunk of his car and then took it into his motel room, you owe him beer.

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-23-2009, 7:30 PM
Applebee's or Chevy's???:43:

Doesn't matter since you'll be paying.

Peter W Bush
10-23-2009, 7:32 PM
If the gun was unloaded and in his trunk then youll be buying him some beer

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 7:43 PM
If he put an unloaded gun in a locked suitcase or in the trunk of his car and then took it into his motel room, you owe him beer.

If it was in an unlocked suitcase, and put in the trunk, while it is in the trunk, it is legal. However, when it is removed from the trunk and before it is in the hotel room, that "could" be considered illegal CC of a handgun.

Once he is in his hotel room, he can load up legally.

Arteel
10-23-2009, 8:03 PM
This.

If it was in an unlocked suitcase, and put in the trunk, while it is in the trunk, it is legal. However, when it is removed from the trunk and before it is in the hotel room, that "could" be considered illegal CC of a handgun.

Once he is in his hotel room, he can load up legally.

Tweak338
10-23-2009, 8:04 PM
I'm going to say you owe him beer.
I rode 13mi on my bike with a sig in my backpack, unloaded & locked.
Its legal and also known as ULCC(Unloaded Locked Container Carry)

Dr. Peter Venkman
10-23-2009, 8:31 PM
I'm going to say you owe him beer.
I rode 13mi on my bike with a sig in my backpack, unloaded & locked.
Its legal and also known as ULCC(Unloaded Locked Container Carry)

Also known as TMFA.

Tweak338
10-23-2009, 8:32 PM
Also known as TMFA.
TMFA?

audihenry
10-23-2009, 8:37 PM
Can you carry any ammo with you in that case? If so, how? If not, then it's pretty damn pointless.

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 8:41 PM
Yes, you can carry ammo with you, just not in the gun. People v. Clark states that a firearm is only loaded if the ammo is in a position to fire, in the firearm.

Ammo in the case, even if magazines outside the gun, does not equal a loaded firearm.

Ducman
10-23-2009, 8:58 PM
sorry to say but looks like you owe him a case of beer.

CaliforniaLiberal
10-23-2009, 9:07 PM
What kind of beer did you get for him?

audihenry
10-23-2009, 9:43 PM
Yes, you can carry ammo with you, just not in the gun. People v. Clark states that a firearm is only loaded if the ammo is in a position to fire, in the firearm.

Ammo in the case, even if magazines outside the gun, does not equal a loaded firearm.

I've heard the ammo has to be in a separate place, e.g., gun in trunk, ammo in glovebox, or something to this effect. Can it be in the same container as the gun in the trunk?

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 9:58 PM
I've heard the ammo has to be in a separate place, e.g., gun in trunk, ammo in glovebox, or something to this effect. Can it be in the same container as the gun in the trunk?ammo can be in the same container, does not need to be in a separate location.

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 10:02 PM
still need the OP to clarify if the handguns were locked in either the softcase or the suitcase. If not, you both may have been correct. The OP would be correct in that his friend may have been illegally carrying a concealed handgun when the suitcase was not in the trunk of the car. But the friend would have been correct in that he can possess a handgun in his hotel room.
Bet may be a draw.

Dr Rockso
10-23-2009, 10:26 PM
still need the OP to clarify if the handguns were locked in either the softcase or the suitcase. If not, you both may have been correct. The OP would be correct in that his friend may have been illegally carrying a concealed handgun when the suitcase was not in the trunk of the car. But the friend would have been correct in that he can possess a handgun in his hotel room.
Bet may be a draw.
True, but even in the situation where it was unlocked in the case but placed in the trunk I'd call it legal. While it might be technically illegal to carry an unlocked gun from your house to the trunk of your car (or from your car to your hotel room) I highly doubt anybody has ever been arrested for it. In fact defining the trunk of the vehicle as an acceptable "locked container" would be pretty pointless if the moment you popped the latch you were illegal.

audihenry
10-23-2009, 10:27 PM
ammo can be in the same container, does not need to be in a separate location.

One final question, if I may:

In CA, assume you have the gun and the ammo locked in the trunk, in what case, if any, can you obtain it, load it, and use it to defend yourself or your friend while NOT in your house or place of business? (let's say the side of the road)

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 10:43 PM
One final question, if I may:

In CA, assume you have the gun and the ammo locked in the trunk, in what case, if any, can you obtain it, load it, and use it to defend yourself or your friend while NOT in your house or place of business? (let's say the side of the road)

this would be the exemption you are looking for.


12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(j)(1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.
(2) A violation of this section is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or safety. This paragraph may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section 12025 or of committing other similar offenses.
Upon trial for violating this section, the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.
(k) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of a loaded firearm by any person while engaged in the act of making or attempting to make a lawful arrest.

berto
10-23-2009, 10:49 PM
Caught with it in the car or the hotel?

Unless thee guy improperly stored for transport you owe him a case of beer. Newcastle should cover it.

audihenry
10-23-2009, 11:48 PM
this would be the exemption you are looking for.

Thank you, that's perfect.

CaliforniaLiberal
10-24-2009, 4:49 AM
I think your bet illustrates how confusing California gun law is. Even the simplest questions quickly become complex and full of exceptions. LEOs and DAs also do not always have the correct knowledge or interpretation. Thus the question becomes not 'what is the law?' but 'what does the cop pulling me over think the law is?' This is why people go beyond the letter of the law and believe myths such as the need to carry magazines unloaded or that ammo must be in a separate container from firearms.

CL

dwtt
10-24-2009, 6:19 PM
He added "If you win, I'll buy you lunch. If I win, you'll buy me a case of beer."

Does he get to choose which beer or do you get to choose? If you get to choose, just buy whatever is on sale, but if he chooses, let him try some Pyramid beer.

Walker
10-24-2009, 6:37 PM
I think your bet illustrates how confusing California gun law is. Even the simplest questions quickly become complex and full of exceptions. LEOs and DAs also do not always have the correct knowledge or interpretation. Thus the question becomes not 'what is the law?' but 'what does the cop pulling me over think the law is?' This is why people go beyond the letter of the law and believe myths such as the need to carry magazines unloaded or that ammo must be in a separate container from firearms.

CL

Without a myriad of confusing laws whose wording sometimes seem to contradict itself how else are normal law abiding citizens meant to be turned in to criminals.

Librarian
10-24-2009, 9:07 PM
One final question, if I may:

In CA, assume you have the gun and the ammo locked in the trunk, in what case, if any, can you obtain it, load it, and use it to defend yourself or your friend while NOT in your house or place of business? (let's say the side of the road)

ke6guj is correct. OTOH, you're already sitting in a 3-4,000 pound deadly weapon that can ordinarily carry you away from dangers in less time than stopping, getting out, opening a case, and loading a handgun. Neither the gun nor the car would ALWAYS be the right answer, of course.

IrishPirate
10-24-2009, 9:12 PM
split decision. If he keeps it unloaded, and in a locked container with the ammo seperate...you owe him beer. BUT, in that situation its about a useful for self defense as a box of kittens.....If your point is that he'll get in trouble for having it then it all depends on how he's transporting it, and yes, as stated above he can have it loaded and ready once he's in his hotel room. so i guess the real question is....Bud or Coors?

Dr Rockso
10-24-2009, 10:07 PM
Does he get to choose which beer or do you get to choose? If you get to choose, just buy whatever is on sale, but if he chooses, let him try some Pyramid beer.
He wouldn't really be choosing then, would he?

CaliforniaLiberal
10-24-2009, 11:23 PM
split decision. If he keeps it unloaded, and in a locked container with the ammo seperate...you owe him beer. BUT, in that situation its about a useful for self defense as a box of kittens.....If your point is that he'll get in trouble for having it then it all depends on how he's transporting it, and yes, as stated above he can have it loaded and ready once he's in his hotel room. so i guess the real question is....Bud or Coors?


Actually a bad guy with a face full of kittens with tiny little razor claws trying to get traction for a quick get away is going to be pretty busy for at least a few seconds. Not a bad defense if you're otherwise empty handed.

CL