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View Full Version : PPT fees for 2 handguns @ same time, same seller?


JAYSONE
10-23-2009, 5:55 PM
I recently did a ppt for two handguns on the same day from a friend at Kings Armory in Glendale.

I was charged a total of $80 for both guns.

My handwritten receipt for each handgun breaks down the "fees" as follows:

DROS $30
Transfer fee $10
____________
Total $40

Did I get duped into paying more fees than I'm supposed to?

I thought the DROS fee for a PPT is maxed out by law @ $25 and the total an FFL can charge on top of that is $10 (per gun)?

Did the fee structure recently change? Because the sign they have posted is DROS $30

During the ppt I felt that something wasn't right but didn't want to hassle my friend in picking up and taking our business elsewhere.

If the fees are incorrect, what recourse do I have with the FFL?

Thanks all in advance for the advice.

JAYSONE

ugimports
10-23-2009, 5:57 PM
I recently did a ppt for two handguns on the same day from a friend at Kings Armory in Glendale.

I was charged a total of $80 for both guns.

My handwritten receipt for each handgun breaks down the "fees" as follows:

DROS $30
Transfer fee $10
____________
Total $40

Did I get duped into paying more fees than I'm supposed to?

I thought the DROS fee for a PPT is maxed out by law @ $25 and the total an FFL can charge on top of that is $10 (per gun)?

Did the fee structure recently change? Because the sign they have posted is DROS $30

During the ppt I felt that something wasn't right but didn't want to hassle my friend in picking up and taking our business elsewhere.

If the fees are incorrect, what recourse do I have with the FFL?

Thanks all in advance for the advice.

JAYSONE

That DROS for $30 seems inaccurate. It should be:

How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?

The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)

Which is current from here:
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#8

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 6:18 PM
Max you should have been charged was $66.


What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, you are restricted to charging no more than $25.00 in State fees described and $10.00 per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:

For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.
For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082)
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#18G

All you can really do is complain to the FFL, stating that they overcharged you. Some people have started calling CADOJ and reporting the overchargement. It is actually a misdemeanor for the FFL to charge more than the allowable PPT fees.

Bigballaizm
10-23-2009, 6:37 PM
Unfortunately yes you did get duped! K6 is correct!

Quiet
10-23-2009, 6:42 PM
If the fees are incorrect, what recourse do I have with the FFL?

What Jack said, only recourse is to talk to the FFL or make a complaint with CA DOJ BOF.

rcantu
10-23-2009, 7:30 PM
agreed with the rest.

JAYSONE
10-23-2009, 8:29 PM
Thanks everyone for their input.

When I go to pick them up I'm going to present the error and see how they respond to the issue. The fact that they have a sign stating the DOJ fee is $30 leads me to believe I'll be at a loss.

I'll also bring along a copy of the PC sections from the link ugimports provided to help my argument.

If they don't resolve the "oversight" with an apology and a refund of the overcharges I have no choice but to take the loss, report them to the DOJ and boycott their establishment.

If they are shady with ppt transfers, imagine what other bull**** policies they have in place.

CenterX
10-23-2009, 8:34 PM
Best of luck to you. Be calm and cool!

troysland
10-23-2009, 8:42 PM
I'll be doing a 2 handgun ppt on tuesday from OC armory. I'll post my findings and report the fees charged to me for comparison.

sevensix2x51
10-23-2009, 8:44 PM
Thanks everyone for their input.

When I go to pick them up I'm going to present the error and see how they respond to the issue. The fact that they have a sign stating the DOJ fee is $30 leads me to believe I'll be at a loss.

I'll also bring along a copy of the PC sections from the link ugimports provided to help my argument.

If they don't resolve the "oversight" with an apology and a refund of the overcharges I have no choice but to take the loss, report them to the DOJ and boycott their establishment.

If they are shady with ppt transfers, imagine what other bull**** policies they have in place.

if you signed only one form, you should have been charged only one dros fee, and maybe 2 transfer fees. if you filled out 2 separate forms, then you will be paying twice.
you should be asking these questions before they get your money, imho.... buyer beware.

JAYSONE
10-23-2009, 9:18 PM
if you signed only one form, you should have been charged only one dros fee, and maybe 2 transfer fees. if you filled out 2 separate forms, then you will be paying twice.
you should be asking these questions before they get your money, imho.... buyer beware.

Definitely agree. I SHOULD have been more observant and asked questions BEFORE the transaction took place.

I really just wanted to get outta there because the newb that was doing the paperwork was taking forever trying to get everything in order...not that I'm making an excuse for my lack of attentiveness.

If nothing else comes out of this, it is a $14 lesson learned in my fairly new hobby. Maybe my experience will prevent someone else browsing this post from being a :dupe: like me!:o

Update:Looks like I'm not the first, here's another post about Gun Kings Armory ppt experience; post #12 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=178724&highlight=Gun+Kings&page=2

troysland
10-25-2009, 11:13 AM
UPDATE:

From Gunrunners in Duarte, CA (Great Bunch of Guys)

Just Did a Two Long Gun PPT yesterday, and my buyer was only charged $45 for both Rifles. $35 for the first and $10 for the second.

I would raise hell for being overcharged! Good Luck.

ke6guj
10-25-2009, 12:39 PM
UPDATE:

From Gunrunners in Duarte, CA (Great Bunch of Guys)

Just Did a Two Long Gun PPT yesterday, and my buyer was only charged $45 for both Rifles. $35 for the first and $10 for the second.

I would raise hell for being overcharged! Good Luck.OK, you did a multiple long gun PPT, which has a different price structure than a multiple handgun PPT.


For a PPT involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first handgun, and $31.00 for each subsequent handgun.For handguns, since each handgun is DROSed separately, it is $66 for two handguns.


For PPTs involving one or more long guns, the State fees are limited to $25.00 for the whole transaction plus $10.00 dealer fee per firearm transferred.
(PC section 12082) For long guns, they can all be done on one DROS, so its $45, which you were charged.

yes, the OP was overcharged, but it wasn't as bad as your post may have suggested.

nn3453
10-25-2009, 4:46 PM
A suggestion. Post the name of the FFL everywhere. But don't call the DOJ on them. You don't want to empower the DOJ. There need to be fewer reasons for that agency to justify continued funding for FFL policing, not more.

Boycott the FFL and make sure they get no more business. Keep the DOJ out of this. Just my 2c.

spike spiegel
10-26-2009, 3:26 PM
I did a four handgun ptt with a friend and was charges $140. Thats 4x$35. I filled out four papers and when I picked them up i had to give my finger print four times.

Gryff
10-26-2009, 3:40 PM
The fact that they have a sign stating the DOJ fee is $30 leads me to believe I'll be at a loss.

That constitutes fraud. Be sure to send a nice little letter to DOJ (and CC: the store) if they don't correct their error. You might take in a copy of 12082 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12082.html) to show them their "mistake."

It's a minor thing, but if buyers have to play by the rules, dealers do to.

Oldnoob
10-26-2009, 3:55 PM
I have post on here once before. King's Armory illegally charge $40 PPT for handgun. And they date you 11 days for pick up instead of 10x24 hours day.

I even had a little problem with one of their clerk who told me that my gun safe not meet the CA DOJ requirement according to their list, and they would have to add $11 for a cable lock. I have to show them Sentry's web site which specific list my safe had meet the DOJ standard. I will never do business with them ever again.

troysland
10-28-2009, 12:46 PM
OK, you did a multiple long gun PPT, which has a different price structure than a multiple handgun PPT.




I stand corrected, it was for long guns.

I just did a PPT for two handguns yesterday at OC Armory, and Mike explained the price structure as two separate 4473 forms were filled out. $35 for the first and $30 for the second. The receipt did show a discount on his fee for the second, but the State Fee for both handguns were accounted for. Thanks Mike. See you in 10 days!

rivviepop
10-28-2009, 1:26 PM
When I go to pick them up I'm going to present the error and see how they respond to the issue. The fact that they have a sign stating the DOJ fee is $30 leads me to believe I'll be at a loss.

Suggestion: obtain the firearms and secure them in the trunk of your vehicle and then begin your discussion. Do not say anything before you've got your weapons in your hands and out the door of the establishment.