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Ravenslair
07-21-2005, 9:50 PM
A lawyer would be a better place to go, and where I will eventually take this question, but I was thinking of it now and wanted to ask. I am under the impression that the receiver is what makes a firearm a firearm. If so, does this mean that I, as a resident of CA, could purchase an AK or Uzi parts kit (everything but the receiver most of the time) and keep it in CA?

The reason would be to get something prior to the BATFE closing off all parts kits that now come with barrels attached. Most of these kits can be purchased for a pretty reasonable price. Down the road, when I leave this state, I could purchase the receiver and be good to go.

Thanks for any insight.

pogo
07-21-2005, 10:29 PM
Great question Ravenslair, I had been wondering this myself. Some of the kit sellers out there have told me that as long as there aren't any hi-cap magazines in the kit then it is OK to ship the kit here, flash suppressor, folding stock, bayo lug and all, but then I wouldn't take that as gospel! I'm sure others will have better information on this.

edit for spelling

bwiese
07-21-2005, 11:22 PM
Ravenslair...

There is NO law in CA banning possession or acquisition of parts kits. Just don't have a receiver.

It IS legal to acquire and possess receivers for guns that are not specifically listed in the original 1989 Robert-Roos list and that are not ARs or AKs. But do not assemble these receivers to the parts kits in CA or you'll be making a CA-illegal AW.

Do beware that many, many parts kits often come with one free hicap magazine. Make sure that you specify at kit order time that you are not ordering the hicap magazine, get it written on the invoice for your protection (in case shipping dept screws up) and let 'em know it cannot be shipped to you in CA. Ask for a credit for the hicap magazine.

Also, make sure that any barrels sent out are at least 16" long. If you did have a legal receiver and a barrel shorter than this there could be a chance of an NFA (federal) violation (short-barrel rifle) even if the gun's not assembled.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

-hanko
07-21-2005, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Ravenslair:
A lawyer would be a better place to go, and where I will eventually take this question, but I was thinking of it now and wanted to ask. I am under the impression that the receiver is what makes a firearm a firearm. If so, does this mean that I, as a resident of CA, could purchase an AK or Uzi parts kit (everything but the receiver most of the time) and keep it in CA?

Thanks for any insight.
Yes. Unlike WA, CA doesn't have a law (yet) prohibiting shipping of machine gun parts to the state.

-hanko

LongBch_SigP226
07-22-2005, 12:29 AM
ARTICLE 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

12200. The term "machinegun" as used in this chapter means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can readily be restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. The term also includes any weapon deemed by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms as readily convertible to a machinegun under Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12200.htm

Well as stated above by others, don't get the hi-cap. Because we all know it is banned here.
Also I'm not sure if machine gun parts are legal in California. Read the wording above or go to the link I posted. I'm not a lawyer so I maybe wrong on this but it appears that even possessing machine gun parts is illegal here.

Pulsar
07-22-2005, 11:24 AM
I've got a question that's sorta on the same topic. If you bought a parts kit to a gun specifically named, like any of the AK series, and built it on a receiver you built your self, would it be legal. Assuming you also go through the steps to make it PRK legal like fixing the magazine or removing the pistol grip.

bwiese
07-22-2005, 12:04 PM
Pulsar..

For ARs & AKs the receiver itself is illegal (August 2000 Kasler decision groups AR/AK receivers back into Type I original Robert-Roos 'by name' assault weapons). Whether or not it has rest of parts mounted, or whether or not it has a pistol grip or flash hider, etc. is immaterial, the receiver itself will be considered illegal.

[There is some handwaving due to the later Harrott v. Kings County decision but I wouldn't count on this, it's untested, and esp. problematic w/homemade receivers.]

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Ravenslair
07-22-2005, 12:36 PM
Thanks for the insightful replies. Having a kit on hand might be the way to go for now. If I move to another state or AK/AR systems become legal again in CA (highly doubtful), then I can actually assemble it on a legally obtained and owned receiver.

pogo
07-23-2005, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Ravenslair:
Thanks for the insightful replies. Having a kit on hand might be the way to go for now. If I move to another state or AK/AR systems become legal again in CA (highly doubtful), then I can actually assemble it on a legally obtained and owned receiver.

Good idea to get a kit before the prices get out of control. There are loads of kits out there, Romanian, Tantal, Krink, RPK, which do you like RL? Any preferences?

Pulsar
07-24-2005, 10:42 PM
I understand that the reciever is illegal. But I'm thinking that a completly home made reciever. Like I'm starting with a block of metal and milling it down to a reciever my self. Would that be legal? And if not, would it still be consdiered an AK or AR reciever if I just made some sort of reciever just to mount up to the parts kit that really isn't based off of any design. Of course we are still assuming we have removed all the evil features.

I know it wouldn't be an easy project, but I'm just brainstorming.

C.G.
07-24-2005, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Pulsar:
I understand that the reciever is illegal. But I'm thinking that a completly home made reciever. Like I'm starting with a block of metal and milling it down to a reciever my self. Would that be legal? And if not, would it still be consdiered an AK or AR reciever if I just made some sort of reciever just to mount up to the parts kit that really isn't based off of any design. Of course we are still assuming we have removed all the evil features.

I know it wouldn't be an easy project, but I'm just brainstorming.

An AR or AK type receiver is illegal whether bought or finished from scratch.

Pulsar
07-25-2005, 8:07 PM
How about a reciever that isn't based off of an AR or AK reciever design, but would work with an AR or AK parts kit?

gidddy169
07-25-2005, 11:17 PM
This is all walking a thin line for CA. If anything I would follow bwiese's info. That being said, so far it is not technically illegal to build a reciever using ar or ak parts from scratch or an 80% blank and complying with all the other CA laws according to Harrots. vs. Kings County. But they could make you an example who knows. By the way if this doesn't make sense I am drunk so sorry.

RobK
08-01-2005, 10:21 AM
Parts and kits specific for automatic weapons are not legal according to DOJ, I just got off the phone with them.
One moment please, I need to go dig a new hole for yet another ammo can.
Read the 12200, the cost of a mistake like m16 bolt in ar15 to defend oneself is not worth the lawyers fees even if charges are dismissed in the end.

bwiese
08-01-2005, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by gidddy169:
so far it is not technically illegal to build a reciever using ar or ak parts from scratch or an 80% blank and complying with all the other CA laws according to Harrots. vs. Kings County.

Yes, I would not yet really trust Harrott until some other poor souls have used it in their defense. Hate to be #1 in that situation!

I see possible problems w/Harrott for homebuilt AR & AK receivers (even if not built up into AWs). 'Legislative intent' was to ban all further ARs and AKs (cemented by Aug 2000 Kasler decision); while Harrot required the DOJ to create & maintain a Roster of AK and AR15 Weapons (approxmate title) to make it easier to follow/understand, a judge might rule that it's impossible to ban homebuilt AR/AK receivers specifically in that roster and use legislative intent to say they were still banned.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
08-01-2005, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by firechief:
Parts and kits specific for automatic weapons are not legal according to DOJ, I just got off the phone with them.

There's no law banning receiverless kits.
That's just metal. Even if there are full-auto parts in it.

Most receiverless parts kits I've seen (which includes torch-cut receivers, etc.) are mode-neutral - full auto or semiauto. FAL parts kits are for either, there's a different block in the actual serialized upper receiver that determines this.

If you don't have a receiver or another gun, it's OK w/CA DOJ (whether they know it or not) to have parts kit(s) of any nature.

BUT... having a receiver and a kit w/full auto parts is another thing. Or having an M16 bolt carrier while owning an AR15 - then you're on Federal NFA territory.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike
08-01-2005, 2:12 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:
Or having an M16 bolt carrier while owning an AR15 - then you're on Federal NFA territory.

Colt's shipping 6920's with F/A bolt carriers in them, been doing that since last Feb. Unless it is only a CA thing, there's nothing wrong with a F/A b/c, provided the rest of the parts are semi- only. You see those carriers on a lot of service rifles too.

ETA: ATF letter in link posted: ATF letter (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4720&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1)