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View Full Version : Midway Ammo FUD


bodger
10-23-2009, 2:24 PM
I live in Los Angeles.

I just attempted to order some Cor-Bon lead free .357 ammo from Midway.

Quote: "It is illegal for us to ship ammunition into the City of Los Angeles".

So I'm forced to buy lead free ammo for my lever action rifle so I don't poison any condors by mistake whilst hunting Mule deer.

And I'm thwarted by another law that doesn't even exist.

Scratch705
10-23-2009, 2:27 PM
no, if you are in the city of LA, then they can't ship ammo to you.... there are certain cities and counties that already has no mail order ammo ordinances in place IIRC. i know san francisco is another one.

i have my ammo shipped to my parents that are in LA County, and haven't had any issue.

bodger
10-23-2009, 2:30 PM
no, if you are in the city of LA, then they can't ship ammo to you.... there are certain cities and counties that already has no mail order ammo ordinances in place IIRC. i know san francisco is another one.

i have my ammo shipped to my parents that are in LA County, and haven't had any issue.


I get shipments from other vendors frequently. And I keep hearing conflicting opinions or facts about whether this is legal or not.

I know that LA requires all ammo transactions to be FTF with fingerprint and ID, and that LA dealers are not allowed to ship ammo.

Is there a link to the ordinance passed by the city council?

Scratch705
10-23-2009, 2:35 PM
not sure about finding the exact ordinance... since i have only read about it here from other members posting about it who are also in LA city.

I do hope a more knowledgeable member can post up the info.

EDIT: I think a lot of retailers/vendors just err on the side of caution since they don't want to be sued by the city for such a vague and confusing ordinance.
http://www.gunalizer.com/laammolaw.pdf
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3129017&postcount=14
found these two links that kinda explains it and it is listed under municipal codes

dfletcher
10-23-2009, 2:42 PM
no, if you are in the city of LA, then they can't ship ammo to you.... there are certain cities and counties that already has no mail order ammo ordinances in place IIRC. I know san francisco is another one.
i have my ammo shipped to my parents that are in LA County, and haven't had any issue.

SF is another city Midway won't ship to, but their rational is iffy and not followed by pretty much all other vendors. SF requires some sort of license or other requirement to do business in the city, which Grafs, Weidners, Cabelas, Ammoman, Coles, etc have taken to mean if you have a storefront in SF. I know firsthand, they've been selling and SF residents buying for years with no issue.

Just a guess, but I figure Midway will be first to do the "no ammo to CA" at all in Feb 2011.

Decoligny
10-23-2009, 2:43 PM
All ammunition sales in the City of Los Angeles must be face-to-face sales.

Los Angeles City Ordinance 180447

An ordinance adding Section 103.314.1 to, and amending Section 55.11 of, the Los Angeles Municipal Code to require ammunition sellers to obtain a permit from the Board of Police Commissioners, to require face-to-face sales of ammunition, to require sellers of ammunition to obtain a thumbprint, and to require employees handling ammunition to submit to a background check.

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2008/08-1405_ord_180447.pdf

bodger
10-23-2009, 2:49 PM
All ammunition sales in the City of Los Angeles must be face-to-face sales.

Los Angeles City Ordinance 180447

An ordinance adding Section 103.314.1 to, and amending Section 55.11 of, the Los Angeles Municipal Code to require ammunition sellers to obtain a permit from the Board of Police Commissioners, to require face-to-face sales of ammunition, to require sellers of ammunition to obtain a thumbprint, and to require employees handling ammunition to submit to a background check.

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/2008/08-1405_ord_180447.pdf


I don't want to seem dense, but does this confirm that a seller in another state who sells to a buyer in Los Angeles and sends that ammunition via UPS is breaking the law? And is the buyer also breaking the law?

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 2:56 PM
thegunwiki has a good write up on LA's laws, http://www.thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaCityLosAngeles

bodger
10-23-2009, 3:01 PM
I've searched extensively, and I cannot find any written law that specifically states that it's illegal to order ammo via mail order, either for the buyer or the seller.

CSDGuy
10-23-2009, 3:07 PM
I think that some of this "confusion" may result from where a particular sale is deemed to have taken place... IOW, if you order online from an out of state vendor, does the sale take place where you're physically located at the time? where you take delivery? at the location of the out of state vendor?

Decoligny
10-23-2009, 3:11 PM
I don't want to seem dense, but does this confirm that a seller in another state who sells to a buyer in Los Angeles and sends that ammunition via UPS is breaking the law? And is the buyer also breaking the law?

I think that the transaction could be considered to have been done in Los Angeles. That is where you placed the order on your computer, and that is where the ammuntion is being delivered. It could probably be argued in court that the seller was in violation, even if they never set foot in Los Angeles. The ordinance only applies to the seller, not the buyer.

What would be interesting is if someone from outside of Los Angeles bought the ammuntion and tried to have it shipped as a gift to a friend in Los Angeles. There would be no sale of ammunition going on in Los Angeles, and therefore no violation of the ordinance. The problem would be getting the internet vendor to see the subtle logic.

ke6guj
10-23-2009, 3:14 PM
I think that some of this "confusion" may result from where a particular sale is deemed to have taken place... IOW, if you order online from an out of state vendor, does the sale take place where you're physically located at the time? where you take delivery? at the location of the out of state vendor?This is key.

Sort of like the C&R mail-order sales deal. If buying from an out-of-state vendor, the transaction takes place out-of-state and an 03FFL can buy C&R longguns and handguns of any vintage and bring them back with them becuase CA's rules don't apply while I am out of the state.

But if send an order to the vendor and have him ship it to me in CA, then they do. Where did the transaction actually occur in a mail/web order, at the vendor's location, the buyer's location, both, neither?

bodger
10-23-2009, 5:36 PM
Okay, found a vendor and got my order in, it's on the way.

Freakin' Midway. I'll bet they won't sell reloading supplies to CA if AB962 takes hold. I say IF.