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Phil3
10-21-2009, 10:53 PM
Can a 50BMG be brought into California through an inter-familial transfer? Or, is there no way that a 50BMG can ever enter the state or be sold to a California resident? In a nutshell, if I live in CA, any way I can get a 50BMG?

E Pluribus Unum
10-21-2009, 10:57 PM
Not a rifle... but things like an M2/M3 Browning 50 cal are not shoulder-fired and are perfectly legal.

Basically anything fired from the shoulder like a shotgun is considered a "rifle" and .50BMG "rifles" are banned.

M2HB does not fit that description... :)

JeffM
10-21-2009, 10:57 PM
A semi-auto M2 beltfed seems to be your only option.

ETA: EPU beat me to it.

CSACANNONEER
10-21-2009, 11:03 PM
An unregistered 50 BMG rifle can be brought into the state without a permit ONLY to go directly to and from a sanctioned competition. As it stands right now, you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of legally transfering one to an average (non-LEO) California resident though. OTOH, I do know one member here who has legally manufactured (read: mounted upper to lower)his own in Ca. But, he needs it for a DoD contract.

JeffM
10-21-2009, 11:21 PM
you could also mount a .50BMG AR upper (16"+ barrel) to a lower that does not have and has never had a stock attached.

It would be a Title 1 firearm without being a rifle.

yellowfin
10-21-2009, 11:41 PM
The .416 Cheytac and .338 Lapua are more fun anyway.

Digital_Boy
10-22-2009, 9:06 AM
The .416 Cheytac and .338 Lapua are more fun anyway.

or the .416 Barrett, which is based off the .50BMG, and has better long range ballistics.

CSACANNONEER
10-22-2009, 11:13 AM
or the .416 Barrett, which is based off the .50BMG, and has better long range ballistics.

It's a lot closer to a 50 Spotter than a 50BMG.

50BMGBOB
10-22-2009, 11:54 AM
Don't forget the 510DTC. That is probably the closest to a 50BMG, same powder, primer brass, bullet & performance.

jas000
10-22-2009, 7:10 PM
In a nutshell, if I live in CA, any way I can get a 50BMG?

At least every owner of an AR lower that is registered as an AW can.

if you already have an AR lower that is a registered:

assault rifle or
machine gun or
50BMG rifle

and mount a 50BMG upper to it, since PC 12276 which bans unregisterd 50BMG's defines them as:

a centerfire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an 'assault weapon' pursuant to Penal Code sections 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5 PC, or a machinegun as defined by Penal Code section 12200

See this:

http://fiftycal.org/newletters/070822/ (http://fiftycal.org/newletters/070822/)

(there may be other legal ways too, but this method is relatively well-known.)

E Pluribus Unum
10-23-2009, 11:44 AM
At least every owner of an AR lower that is registered as an AW can.

if you already have an AR lower that is a registered:

assault rifle or
machine gun or
50BMG rifle


And for the commoners... more commonly known as the rare element "unobtainium".

blacksheep
10-23-2009, 4:01 PM
All firearm manufactuers should follow Barrett's lead, ban all firearm sales to Kalifornia, starting with LEA's.
No gun's for you.

Dr Rockso
10-23-2009, 4:55 PM
All firearm manufactuers should follow Barrett's lead, ban all firearm sales to Kalifornia, starting with LEA's.
No gun's for you.
I think Barrett's ban on firearms sales to CA only applies to LEAs. He'll still sell to us regular folk.

swift
10-23-2009, 6:06 PM
Not that I'd want to shoot it, but what would a .50 bmg upper on an AOW be legal?

CSACANNONEER
10-26-2009, 5:00 AM
Not that I'd want to shoot it, but what would a .50 bmg upper on an AOW be legal?

Why? A .22lr upper puts more stress on a lower than a 50BMG upper does. Yes, it really does. A 50BMG upper is a bolt action upper and all the forces are contianed within the upper. All .22lr, 5.56, etc. upper put stree on the lower at the buffer tube.

Also, we're talking about RAW lowers not AOWs. It would be perfectly legal to put a 50BMG upper on a RAW.

BT JUSTICE
10-26-2009, 6:51 AM
Not a rifle... but things like an M2/M3 Browning 50 cal are not shoulder-fired and are perfectly legal.

Basically anything fired from the shoulder like a shotgun is considered a "rifle" and .50BMG "rifles" are banned.

M2HB does not fit that description... :)

You mean I didn't have to register my TNW M3AC? I'd hate to try and explain that to DOJ let alone Joe Average street cop that sees .50 BMG and wants to know why it's not registered....

Dr Rockso
10-26-2009, 7:25 AM
Why? A .22lr upper puts more stress on a lower than a 50BMG upper does. Yes, it really does. A 50BMG upper is a bolt action upper and all the forces are contianed within the upper. All .22lr, 5.56, etc. upper put stree on the lower at the buffer tube.

Also, we're talking about RAW lowers not AOWs. It would be perfectly legal to put a 50BMG upper on a RAW.

I think he meant a .50 BMG upper on a lower without a buttstock on it. I'm not sure what the legality of that would be unless the barrel was under 16" (single-shot pistol). Recoil would suck, though.

dantodd
10-26-2009, 7:25 AM
Not that I'd want to shoot it, but what would a .50 bmg upper on an AOW be legal?

Since it would be an AOW and not a rifle I don't see why not. I haven't looked into it so I am not at all certain but doesn't sound like a violation.

ke6guj
10-26-2009, 7:37 AM
A .50BMG upper on a buttstockless lower would be a long gun, not an AOW. An AOW is a concealable firearm that is not a pistol. So, unless you had a .50BMG upper with something like a 10" barrel and a VFG, it wouldn't be an AOW.

gazzavc
10-26-2009, 7:52 AM
Or find yourself a Boyes Anti-Tank rifle in 50BMG. They are considered Curio & Relic and by that definition are exempted from the ban.


(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor
any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the
Code of Federal Regulations.


As per the DOJ: "As long as it is externally unchanged , the caliber switch from .55 to .50 does not disqualify it from being on the C&R list." His example was the M1 Garand in 30.06 or in .308. They are both considered C&R (depending on the date of manufacture of course)

bwiese
10-26-2009, 9:11 AM
All firearm manufactuers should follow Barrett's lead, ban all firearm sales to Kalifornia, starting with LEA's.
No gun's for you.

Idiot.

All you end up doing is penalizing regular gunnies in CA.

Don't you realize guns are often sold thru distribution and mfgrs have little control over market? LEO agencies will continue to get parts, guns, etc.

LAPD is still getting their 50BMGs fixed, just thru intermediaries. If they want more 50BMGs they can find them.

It's all feel-good showboating. Barret may have a bit more leverage (but not much) due to limited circulation/specialty nature of his guns. This wouldn't be relevant for Glock, HK, S&W, Ruger, etc.

wash
10-26-2009, 9:48 AM
I think he meant a .50 BMG upper on a lower without a buttstock on it. I'm not sure what the legality of that would be unless the barrel was under 16" (single-shot pistol). Recoil would suck, though.
Unless that was tripod mounted or something, I think you would find the shooter impaled on the buffer tube after the first shot.

And saying that a .22 lr upper stresses an AR more than a .50 bmg upper is dumb. All of that recoil has to go somewhere...

CSACANNONEER
10-26-2009, 3:59 PM
I think he meant a .50 BMG upper on a lower without a buttstock on it. I'm not sure what the legality of that would be unless the barrel was under 16" (single-shot pistol). Recoil would suck, though.

I'd never thought of that possibility. Interesting thought but, probably as useless as t!ts on a boar.



And saying that a .22 lr upper stresses an AR more than a .50 bmg upper is dumb. All of that recoil has to go somewhere...

So, I'm dumb? Interesting. I wonder how many 50 uppers you've ever seen? Didn't you understand what I said? The stress put on a lower with a 50 bolt action upper is nill since the stress is contained in the upper. On my .22lr and my 5.56 builds, the back of the lower, where the buffer tube attaches, absorbs some of the recoil thus, putting stress on the lower. The "recoil" you feel isn't that big of an issue. As a matter of fact, with a good MB, you can experience a sort of reverse recoil. This is why many scopes fail on guns with MBs. If you really don't understand how a bolt action upper operates, instead of attacking someone else's intellect, you should consider getting some more education. If you want don't believe me, I'm more than willing to let you put a strain gauge on my dedicated 50 lower and my .22lr lower to see if you can prove me wrong. I've had strain a strain gauge on one of my 50s before so, I would not mind doing it again. Hell, I'll even travel up to 200 miles to meet you at a range to do this. Yea, I'm serious about this. It would be interestesting to see the results. BTW, where did you get your engineering degree from? I got mine at SLO. Also, how many lowers have you ever seen damage by the recoil of a 50? I have only been shooting 50s competitively for 5 years so, I'm not as experienced as you since, I haven't seen or heard of one ever failing on under a 50. OTOH, I've seen lowers damamged beyond repair that had 5.56 uppers on them. So, assuming that you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, go buy the appropriate testing equipment and I'll drive to you and supply the testing samples. We could even co-author a magazine article about the test. I garentee that I know one magazine which would pay for it.

dantodd
10-26-2009, 4:08 PM
Anyone make paddle handles for AR lowers?

mikehaas
10-26-2009, 4:21 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words (or grains?)...

http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/cmprs/bigguns.gif

Click here to compare ballistics of these rounds:
http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=28%7c437%7c470%7c746%7c436%7c76%7c445

That's my website!

tonelar
10-26-2009, 4:22 PM
Anyone make paddle handles for AR lowers?
If you're referring to a Spade Grip, then YES they do;

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Images/Gun%20Parts/Spade%20Grip.jpg

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Gun%20Parts.htm

dantodd
10-26-2009, 4:33 PM
If you're referring to a Spade Grip, then YES they do;


http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/Gun%20Parts.htm

Ask and ye shall receive. No reason this couldn't be used to build a legal 50BMG for those of us who don't have RAWs.

Would it be important to have the spade handle before you buy the upper? I can never remember where constructive possession applies.

CSACANNONEER
10-26-2009, 4:44 PM
Ask and ye shall receive. No reason this couldn't be used to build a legal 50BMG for those of us who don't have RAWs.

Would it be important to have the spade handle before you buy the upper? I can never remember where constructive possession applies.

No constructive possession of 50BMG rifles.

1919_4_ME
10-26-2009, 4:55 PM
What about this? Not mine but saw it floating around. I don't see a stock so its not shoulder fired.:D

http://members.cox.net/southparkmilitia/images/guns/AR-50_+_CA_Kid.jpg

CSACANNONEER
10-26-2009, 5:18 PM
What about this? Not mine but saw it floating around. I don't see a stock so its not shoulder fired.:D

http://members.cox.net/southparkmilitia/images/guns/AR-50_+_CA_Kid.jpg

I guess any rail gun would be exempt as well. I might just have to make one.