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Alaric
10-21-2009, 9:11 PM
It exists.

Thoughts?

I'll get it started. Every civil rights movement in America in the past 50 years has been the subject of intensive counter-intelligence at the hands of domestic counter intelligence agencies in the form of the following:

- infiltration - placement of informants and operatives to report on and operate within the subject environment.

- subversion - operatives work to subvert the movement to the will of the state, or otherwise to undermine the goals of the movement through any means.

- deception - This can take whatever form presents itself as an opportunity. Deception can even come in the form as opportunity for a movement, or a "win".

- deviant cooperation - Sometimes tying a group to another group can undermine it, through political means or the operative status of the compromised group.

- co-opt of leadership - The FBI has been known to undermine groups through deep infiltration, even to the point where they start new groups and instill their own agents as leadership. This is documented in the case of civil rights groups of the 60's.

- coersion and "turning" of informants within the movement - Sometimes the threat of a legal charge can create the leverage needed to "develope" a witness, even where no crime has been done.

- dissemination of falsehoods and propaganda - a tried and true method to destroy ideas and movements.

There's more.

I'm in this to win, as are most of you. As of, well, sometime a few years ago, we became a full-fledged civil rights movement. It kinda happened without anyone noticing, but IT HAPPENED. We're here, we're armed, and we want our rights.

I have no illusions that we've become a target of counter-intelligence in at least one 3-letter agency. I'm not a tinfoil hat wearer, this is logic folks.

Please discuss, and focus on counter-intelligence methodology. :cool:
I'm in this to win, not to be undermined by guys in bad suits.

Alaric
10-22-2009, 12:05 AM
I'm starting to think I should've posted this in 2nd Amd....

audihenry
10-22-2009, 12:19 AM
What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.

M. D. Van Norman
10-22-2009, 8:24 AM
Did such so-called counter-intelligence ever stop any bona fide civil-rights movement?

Mitch
10-22-2009, 9:14 AM
None of that stuff is applicable to a group of law-abiding people.

Lone_Gunman
10-22-2009, 9:18 AM
We have lawyers, guns, and money. We will be fine.

-LG

trinydex
10-22-2009, 9:46 AM
None of that stuff is applicable to a group of law-abiding people.

Did such so-called counter-intelligence ever stop any bona fide civil-rights movement?

just to support the op's point, i think the civil rights movement had both law abiding participation and their momentum was drastically changed due to some involvement of three letter agencies.

i don't necessarily believe one way or the other, just posing the views for discussion.

Dirtbiker
10-22-2009, 9:50 AM
Just keep an eye on the guy wearing wingtips...

Barney Gumble
10-22-2009, 10:01 AM
Government surveillance or intervention in social movements can have short term impacts on specific events but it's not going to stop major social movements.

If you're worried about gun rights I wouldn't sweat it. Public opinion has been moving pro-gun on a massive scale for many years, even in the face of Columbine, VA Tech, etc. There may be temporary setbacks but the train has already left the station and they can't push it back.

dwtt
10-22-2009, 10:10 AM
I'll get it started. Every civil rights movement in America in the past 50 years has been the subject of intensive counter-intelligence at the hands of domestic counter intelligence agencies in the form of the following:

- deviant cooperation - Sometimes tying a group to another group can undermine it, through political means or the operative status of the compromised group.

- dissemination of falsehoods and propaganda - a tried and true method to destroy ideas and movements.


This sounds like the Brady bunch. Have you seen their press releases and propaganda? Maybe you can report their activities to a 3-letter agency.

Sunwolf
10-22-2009, 11:14 AM
We have lawyers, guns, and money. We will be fine.

-LG

That only works in Honduras,Warren!

Lone_Gunman
10-22-2009, 11:25 AM
California is looking more and more like a bannana republic...

jdberger
10-22-2009, 11:39 AM
What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.

^^^Could this be a better illustration of the OP's post?^^^

*************

We've had detractors, naysayers and trolls for a while. Fortunately, we've an amorphous cadre of Seniors who are capable of shaping the discussion toward something positive and away from internicine conflict.

I'm not too worried at this point.

B Strong
10-22-2009, 6:16 PM
What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.

In our case, we absolutely do, and we do it here on CGN every day of the week -

When somebody brings up an issue outside of the established legal guidelines that would expose you/me/us to involvement in a criminal act, they get shown the door.

End of story.

You can't subvert what won't cross the line.