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View Full Version : Orange County Sheriff gets the boo hiss...


Spirit 1
10-21-2009, 10:11 PM
At the link:

http://www.sunherald.com/prnewswire/story/1686166.html

Un-elected sheriff?

HondaMasterTech
10-21-2009, 10:26 PM
When I leave my house, I take my body with me. My gun should be where my body is so I can use it to defend myself.

Rusty Shackleford
10-22-2009, 8:01 AM
Great Video.

http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Blogs/79.php

Bill Hunt for sheriff!!!

yellowfin
10-22-2009, 9:55 AM
I love hearing Ed speak. If you didn't need him right where he is, I'd sure vote for him for president.

wkd4496
10-22-2009, 12:59 PM
This is some really great stuff. Thanks!:]

steadyrock
10-22-2009, 1:04 PM
She's done. It's only a matter of waiting out the next 13 months.

Brianguy
10-22-2009, 1:05 PM
Thanks OP. Good vid.

KylaGWolf
10-22-2009, 1:28 PM
Interesting video. Was a joy to watch Ed speak. What bothers me on those that say personal protection is not enough of a right for CCW. Money and valuables are usually insured if it is a part of a business but a life is more valuable than anything else because it cannot be replaced imho.

OrangeCountyCCW
10-22-2009, 3:25 PM
She's done. It's only a matter of waiting out the next 13 months.

I like your style, but it's not only a matter of waiting out the next 13 months. WE NEED YOUR HELP. Hutchens has the advantage of being the "incumbent" (I know, appointed) and has a surprising amount of support from Republicans who should know better.

What is even more surprising is that the current challenger, and likely the only one (unless someone is going to make a half-assed attempt to jump into the race at the last minute), Lt. Bill Hunt, is not getting the full support of the Second Amendment community -- even though the man actually understands the Constitution, had a 22 year career in the OCSO, and has stated verbally and in writing that he will issue to any adult who is not in a prohibited category and takes the required training.

So please, don't think that Hutchens will be automatically replaced. Jump in, contribute as much as you can to Hunt's campaign, attend his events, attend the events of supportive PACs and organizations, and talk to your neighbors and friends about why Hutchens is wrong for Orange County -- not just because of her stance on CCW but her general approach to law enforcement.

Ding126
10-22-2009, 3:42 PM
Bill Hunt for Gov!

steadyrock
10-22-2009, 3:48 PM
I like your style, but it's not only a matter of waiting out the next 13 months. WE NEED YOUR HELP. Hutchens has the advantage of being the "incumbent" (I know, appointed) and has a surprising amount of support from Republicans who should know better.

What is even more surprising is that the current challenger, and likely the only one (unless someone is going to make a half-assed attempt to jump into the race at the last minute), Lt. Bill Hunt, is not getting the full support of the Second Amendment community -- even though the man actually understands the Constitution, had a 22 year career in the OCSO, and has stated verbally and in writing that he will issue to any adult who is not in a prohibited category and takes the required training.

So please, don't think that Hutchens will be automatically replaced. Jump in, contribute as much as you can to Hunt's campaign, attend his events, attend the events of supportive PACs and organizations, and talk to your neighbors and friends about why Hutchens is wrong for Orange County -- not just because of her stance on CCW but her general approach to law enforcement.

Without a doubt. I didn't mean to imply that Lt. Hunt, his supporters (myself included), and the OCCCWS should rest on assumed laurels and wile away the days until her expiration. There is much hard work to be done, and many cultural waves to be turned back before the general public awakens enough to actively revoke her badge at the polls. I was merely commenting on my confidence that the hard work done to date - going back to February of this year and beyond - will continue and that victory will eventually be had.

GuyW
10-22-2009, 7:19 PM
Lt. Bill Hunt, is not getting the full support of the Second Amendment community

I hope to God that the man doesn't get left in the lurch AGAIN by gas-bag gunnies who are long on talk, but short on actual assistance to a candidate on our side....

...if this post is viewed as less than kind by those in OC who have not helped....ce la vie....

.

dfletcher
10-22-2009, 7:56 PM
It's not a 2nd Amendment issue because it's OK to have a gun at home and at work? Please - she couldn't care less about the 2nd, she belongs in LA or SF where she can further her career with such crap.

bodger
10-22-2009, 8:42 PM
A lot of this is no doubt the "New Sheriff In Town" syndrome. She's distancing herself as much as possible from Carona's corrupt behavior.

Hutchens is anti-gun for sure in any case.

Too bad Carona had to be a greedy crook. "America's Sheriff".

CWM4A1
10-22-2009, 9:09 PM
Greg Block, AKA CCWInstructor at CALCCW has said that OCCCWS will not back Hunt. If this is true than that's sad as we will definitely have divided vote situation which could benefit Hutchens.

Foulball
10-22-2009, 9:24 PM
Greg Block, AKA CCWInstructor at CALCCW has said that OCCCWS will not back Hunt. If this is true than that's sad as we will definitely have divided vote situation which could benefit Hutchens.

Have they given a reason why they don't want to back Hunt?

glbtrottr
10-22-2009, 9:41 PM
Carona rival’s lawsuit thrown out
October 22nd, 2009, 10:33 am · 11 Comments · posted by Rachanee Srisavasdi
A lawsuit brought by former sheriff’s Lt. Bill Hunt against ex-sheriff Mike Carona — which went to trial last week in Los Angeles — was thrown out this morning by a federal judge who granted Carona’’s motion to dismiss the entire case.

U.S. District Judge Margaret Morrow ruled that in light of the jury’s findings on questions posed to them about Hunt’s role in the department, Hunt was deemed to be a department policymaker, according to the county’s lawyer, Norman Watkins.

“The jury’s findings were consistent with the evidence,” Watkins said. “I think the court made the right call.”

Hunt declined to comment.

The judge also decided that Carona is entitled to ‘qualified immunity,” which shields public officials from liability for the violation of an individual’s constitutional rights in some cases, Watkins said.

Hunt unsuccessfully ran against Carona for sheriff in 2006. After Carona won the election, he demoted Hunt — then a lieutenant who oversaw San Clemente police services — to a deputy position. Carona and the county reasoned Hunt’s criticisms of Carona’s administration during the campaign violated department policy.

Rather than take the demotion, Hunt resigned and sued, alleging his criticism of Carona was protected under the First Amendment. The county argued that Hunt’s criticism was not protected speech because Hunt, as a member of Carona’s executive team who was running for office, was subject to termination.

The jury –which began deliberating the case yesterday — was sent home, and judgment entered in favor of Carona.

ZUMNDAD
10-22-2009, 10:21 PM
Carona rival’s lawsuit thrown out
October 22nd, 2009, 10:33 am · 11 Comments · posted by Rachanee Srisavasdi
A lawsuit brought by former sheriff’s Lt. Bill Hunt against ex-sheriff Mike Carona — which went to trial last week in Los Angeles — was thrown out this morning by a federal judge who granted Carona’’s motion to dismiss the entire case.

U.S. District Judge Margaret Morrow ruled that in light of the jury’s findings on questions posed to them about Hunt’s role in the department, Hunt was deemed to be a department policymaker, according to the county’s lawyer, Norman Watkins.

“The jury’s findings were consistent with the evidence,” Watkins said. “I think the court made the right call.”

Hunt declined to comment.

The judge also decided that Carona is entitled to ‘qualified immunity,” which shields public officials from liability for the violation of an individual’s constitutional rights in some cases, Watkins said.

Hunt unsuccessfully ran against Carona for sheriff in 2006. After Carona won the election, he demoted Hunt — then a lieutenant who oversaw San Clemente police services — to a deputy position. Carona and the county reasoned Hunt’s criticisms of Carona’s administration during the campaign violated department policy.

Rather than take the demotion, Hunt resigned and sued, alleging his criticism of Carona was protected under the First Amendment. The county argued that Hunt’s criticism was not protected speech because Hunt, as a member of Carona’s executive team who was running for office, was subject to termination.

The jury –which began deliberating the case yesterday — was sent home, and judgment entered in favor of Carona.

...and? Is this to be interpreted as your answer to the previous post?

If it is, can you please explain the relevance between his case being dismissed and his ability to be an upstanding, righteous Sheriff for OC - because I just don't see the correlation.

steadyrock
10-22-2009, 10:27 PM
Greg Block, AKA CCWInstructor at CALCCW has said that OCCCWS will not back Hunt. If this is true than that's sad as we will definitely have divided vote situation which could benefit Hutchens.

Did he say this on the forum? Link?

ZUMNDAD
10-22-2009, 10:36 PM
Did he say this on the forum? Link?

You will find it here: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements-orange-county/11922-excellent-video-covering-oc-ccw-issue.html

The OCCCWS folks and the SafeOC group are not affiliated, but are working towards the same goal - getting Hutchens replaced with a Sheriff who respects all the rights of the Orange County constituency.

OCCCWS should be commended for the work they have done, and continue to do, in getting the truth out about Hutchens and her group. The SafeOC PAC should also be commended for their efforts towards educating people about Hutchens, educating people about the correlation between armed citizenry and low crime rate (the 11/4 Dr. Lott event) as well as fundraising for a candidate they believe in.

Come June 2010, so long as someone is in the top cop spot who is clearly pro-CCW (this obviously excludes Hutchens) then everyone wins...regardless of when they jumped into the fight.

steadyrock
10-22-2009, 11:09 PM
You will find it here: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements-orange-county/11922-excellent-video-covering-oc-ccw-issue.html

The OCCCWS folks and the SafeOC group are not affiliated, but are working towards the same goal - getting Hutchens replaced with a Sheriff who respects all the rights of the Orange County constituency.

OCCCWS should be commended for the work they have done, and continue to do, in getting the truth out about Hutchens and her group. The SafeOC PAC should also be commended for their efforts towards educating people about Hutchens, educating people about the correlation between armed citizenry and low crime rate (the 11/4 Dr. Lott event) as well as fundraising for a candidate they believe in.

Come June 2010, so long as someone is in the top cop spot who is clearly pro-CCW (this obviously excludes Hutchens) then everyone wins...regardless of when they jumped into the fight.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't caught that. I knew Greg did not like Bill but I'm surprised to read some of what was in that thread. Disappointing actions by Hunt. I assume there is another candidate stepping up?

smokingloon
10-22-2009, 11:20 PM
I would just like to comment that even thought many pro 2A community know about Mr. Hunt,there are many of those that have not heard of him. Of course it is till early in the campaign. However, getting his name out to those that are not aware is important. This is especially critical to those that live in northern OC due to many cities having their own police department and do not encounter the deputies as often at those that live in the south county.
Also keep in mind in that many wealthy businesses have donated to Hutchens campaign and should not be taken lightly.

yellowfin
10-23-2009, 1:20 AM
Who are those businesses? They need to be held accountable.

randy
10-23-2009, 1:46 AM
While I agree it would be great to park Hutchenson I think time and money is better spent with the CGF.

OC helps but a few CGF helps everybody.

glbtrottr
10-23-2009, 7:15 AM
While I agree it would be great to park Hutchenson I think time and money is better spent with the CGF.

OC helps but a few CGF helps everybody.

I don't know if you meant OC as in Open Carry, or OC as in Orange County.

Orange County is fairly large in population. Having another pro-ccw Sheriff furthers the CCW fight, in my opinion.

That said, Calguns also does a fabulous job in this thread in a completely different context.

The cancer known as Sandy Hutchens must not be allowed to spread. So far, it's growing stronger - top command staff are LASD. She has promoted left and right and given raises everywhere to get people on her (rather deluded, corrupt, anti-2nd amendment) side.

Why not support both causes? I do.

glbtrottr
10-23-2009, 7:24 AM
Greg Block, AKA CCWInstructor at CALCCW has said that OCCCWS will not back Hunt. If this is true than that's sad as we will definitely have divided vote situation which could benefit Hutchens.

...and? Is this to be interpreted as your answer to the previous post?

If it is, can you please explain the relevance between his case being dismissed and his ability to be an upstanding, righteous Sheriff for OC - because I just don't see the correlation.

You know, I think if Greg Block isn't backing Hunt, he has his reasons. I know some of them. There are others I don't. Someone should ask him to post them, being that some consider him a valuable member of the pro-CCW, pro 2nd amendment community.

I posted the case as it had just hit the waves. I didn't think of it as a pure reply to the previous question.

I've responded in a couple of threads why I think there are some reasons that this case make Mr. Hunt a LOSER.

I want to like the guy, I just don't think he's electable. I want to spend my money and efforts on someone who is.

I've spoken to Bill Hunt, and SafeOC. I like what he says. I just don't think the public will like him enough to elect him...particularly an organization that demoted him. Sour Grapes. I also spoke to SafeOC about backing a candidate at the right time that was electable, and that we had concerns about Hunt. Yesterday, Hunt Lost. I predict he will lose far more than once.

Mr. Nightswonger is still there. What will Mr. Hunt do about him? Retaliate against him like he thinks Mr. Carona did to Mr. Hunt when Mr. Nightswonger was part of the Demotion hearings?

dantodd
10-23-2009, 2:07 PM
I don't understand how this video would reflect poorly on Bill Hunt. He never said that he was associated with OCCCWS nor did he say that he was the leader of some CCW movement. As for not attending the meeting in question, that would have been very bad, the board and Mr. Hunt are not exactly best buddies and his appearance would have reflected negatively on the CCW movement in the eyes of the board.

I don't know what other issues there are that make Bill a bad candidate and I have no vote in OC but I do have a considerable interest in the outcome and family that does vote in OC and will likely throw support behind a pro-CCW candidate. It would truly be a shame to be stuck with no-change because we split the pro-2A vote.

yellowfin
10-23-2009, 2:16 PM
Whatever is done, GET HUTCHENS OUT! The rest is petty details. Don't lose focus on that.

GuyW
10-23-2009, 3:11 PM
The OCCCWS folks and the SafeOC group are not affiliated, but are working towards the same goal - getting Hutchens replaced with a Sheriff who respects all the rights of the Orange County constituency.


By endorsing 2 different pro-gun candidates and splitting the vote, they open the specter of Hutchens pulling 50%+1 votes in the Primary....IIRC - that means game over, she's Sheriff....
.

Mute
10-23-2009, 3:12 PM
If OCCCWS doesn't support Hunt, who do they support? Doesn't help much if there isn't another candidate.

glbtrottr
10-23-2009, 3:19 PM
People announce in January.

We're in mid-late October. November and December are left.

There's a little bit of time, though not much. I can't imagine that there won't be other candidates.

OCCCWS will undoubtedly back a candidate.

Right now the only candidate that announced is Bill Hunt.

I'm confident in saying that OCCCWS will not be backing Bill Hunt.

Paladin
10-23-2009, 11:43 PM
Two mistakes the members of the audience kept making were mentioning: (1) the 2nd A RKBA; and (2) "Shall Issue" states.

Re. (1): right now, we don't have incorporation (a McDonald win), much less a RKBA in this state (a Sykes win). Sure, we think we will, and we probably will, but we don't right now, so drop it for now.

Re. (2): CA is not "Shall Issue." Talking about other states will not persuade the sheriff or put her on the defensive. It allows her to take the high road by saying she is not above the law and cannot change the law which requires GC.

What they should have done/do in the future is press her on why she refuses to accept self-defense for GC and use the state statistics on CCW issuance (now almost 3 months late for the year 2008 . . .) to show how 35 out of 58 sheriffs readily issue, so state law obviously will allow her to as well (unless she's claiming those 35 sheriffs are violating state law . . .). Badger her on that, nail her on that. She cannot easily deflect that she has w/in her discretion, the ability to readily issue CCWs for general self-defense/avid shooter. Search every "green" (see image below) SO website to see what they'll accept for GC, print out (or get mailed copies), and use those as evidence to present to her and the Board of Supervisors. This is the most powerful attack against her insistence that she cannot change the law -- that is a strawman argument. She doesn't have to change the law to reasonably issue CCWs. This is demonstrated by a majority of CA sheriffs' policies.

A few of those sheriffs might even be willing to give video taped statements re their experiences w/"reasonable issue" of CCWs (vs restrictive issuance). Fresno went "reasonable issuance" just a couple of years ago, so their new sheriff might insights into what happens when you switch to "reasonable issuance." (The stuff in this paragraph is directed to the Board, even though it may be given to them via a debate w/the sheriff. You're trying to convince the Board that OC should go back to "reasonable issuance" and be against Hutchens' policy with this stuff.)

JMHO

Wish the CalGunners in OC the best in taking Hutchens down. :chris:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/clownburner/OCCCWS/ca_ccw_map-big.png