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View Full Version : Someone schoool me on Saiga/Ak74 real quick like:)


cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 11:05 AM
So, I'm really close to picking up either a saiga in 5.45, or an AK-74. Henderson Defense is advertising the 74 for 425, and I can pick up a Saiga for under 400.

Is the Saiga just an AK without the pistol grip? Is one more reliable than the other? I like the Saiga because it's featureless and you don't have to bother with the maglock, but if the AK74 is a better overall gun, I might go that route. And I can't afford both!!

thanks

stix213
10-20-2009, 11:44 AM
The Saiga is an AK variant, made by the company where Mr Kalashnikov still has his office, though they are slightly different.

The main differences off the top of my head:
1) trigger is moved rearward without a pistol grip - it is common for people to convert them back to pistol grip by moving the trigger forward, but it is more tricky than simply screwing on a pistol grip alone, see the forums at saiga-12.com for detailed instructions and help
2) The handguards fit differently, usually people buy Saiga specific handguards
3) The rifle is missing a bullet guide, which Saigas have built into the magazines - you can easily modify the Saiga to take standard AK mags but they don't work stock

I haven't fired a 5.45 version of the Saiga, but all Saigas are known for their AK reliability. My 7.62x39 Saiga has been fired about 2200 times, without a single failure of any kind at all, even with the cheap Russian Wolf and Bear ammo I always use. 2200 times the trigger has been pulled, and 2200 times a round went where it was supposed to. Doesn't get more reliable than that.

supersonic
10-20-2009, 12:57 PM
I just got a Saiga 5.45 and I can tell you a few things. First, it is very well made. Built like the proverbial 'AK tank', the fit & finish for a brand new, sparkling ALL black, sub-$400 rifle is exceptional. Plus, it really is the only "real AK" you can still get new (the Izhmash factory went bankrupt & ceased all manufacture, so buy NOW!), so you get that 'heritage' feeling with it. Mine came from Atlantic Firearms still sealed in the box. Inside, it comes wrapped in 1 layer of oil paper, and 1 layer of foam, all of which is enclosed in a big, plastic bag. You will also find in the box: 2 booklets - one is a 'proof' or 'certification/inspection' book with factory stampings & signatures (in Russian!!) from the people who built your gun. The other is the owner's manual; a cleaning rod, Military-type cleaning kit, and black plastic oil bottle. Just a great package for under four bones. Put that together with a 1080-rd. can of 5.45 (from AIM - $150), and you have about the BEST 'bang-for your-buck' shooting package available anywhere! Oh, and AK-74 mags work perfectly well in it. No bullet guide need be installed (at least that's the case with my 30-rd. Russian 'plum' mags from the 1970's - 1980's).:cool:

stix213
10-20-2009, 1:14 PM
Oh, and AK-74 mags work perfectly well in it. No bullet guide need be installed (at least that's the case with my 30-rd. Russian 'plum' mags from the 1970's - 1980's).:cool:

Sorry, about my bullet guide comment then, that must only be the 7.62x39 (I swear I read it was needed in the 5.45, ohh well...)

SJgunguy24
10-20-2009, 1:18 PM
Who build the rifles for Henderson, and what receiver is it built on? Thats what i'd ask.
The Saiga I know will work and the receiver is fully heat treated and of the Saigas i've seen they have a smooth action.

The 223 and 762 need B.G.'s

Rob454
10-20-2009, 5:18 PM
Is the Saiga just an AK without the pistol grip? Is one more reliable than the other? I like the Saiga because it's featureless and you don't have to bother with the maglock, but if the AK74 is a better overall gun, I might go that route. And I can't afford both!!

thanks

A saiga is just a AK without the pistol grip. The guts are the same. if you want the cool factor of a AK then get a AK. otherwise a saiga is just as accurate. The trigger isnt as great due to the weird lever arrangement but overall its not bad. The ince thing is that the saiga IS featureless so if you legally owned/have 30 round mags you can legally use them

strangerdude
10-20-2009, 5:23 PM
Trust me get a saiga, I love my 5.45 and i didn't even need a mag conversion, 74 mags fit without converting. Plus bullet buttons are annoying. Plus it's Russian, why would you get a crappy century which i think henderson is selling when you can get an actual Kalashnikov straight out the factory.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/ak-18/DSC04678.jpg

cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 5:26 PM
Since these things are pretty much AKs, they can handle the cheap russian wolf/brownbear ammo without any problems?

shoushuninja
10-20-2009, 5:28 PM
f#ck yea! i just ordered a saiga 762x39. picking it up in a couple weeks. im sure ill post when i do. its my first

strangerdude
10-20-2009, 5:29 PM
Since these things are pretty much AKs, they can handle the cheap russian wolf/brownbear ammo without any problems?

Yes, i have 70's surplus ammo dude. Trust me, this is a badass gun!

cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 5:30 PM
Yes, i have 70's surplus ammo dude. Trust me, this is a badass gun!

sweet, that 70s surplus ammo is a big reason why I want this gun.. 150 for over 1k rounds sounds pretty good.

strangerdude
10-20-2009, 5:35 PM
sweet, that 70s surplus ammo is a big reason why I want this gun.. 150 for over 1k rounds sounds pretty good.

True but you also want to stay away from corrosive ammo with any gun. Just get wolf or silver bear, those are still well priced.

supersonic
10-20-2009, 5:40 PM
True but you also want to stay away from corrosive ammo with any gun..

Why? To pass up DIRT-cheap prices just so you don't have to run a wet patch through your bore after each firing session? That's crazy! Besides, I don't think 5.45 surplus is even available any other way.

cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 5:43 PM
Why? To pass up DIRT-cheap prices just so you don't have to run a wet patch through your bore after each firing session? That's crazy! Besides, I don't think 5.45 surplus is even available any other way.

Do you have to worry about other parts of the rifle rusting, other than just the barrel?

Stooman
10-20-2009, 5:56 PM
Just a quick question about the Saiga, does anybody have a picture of the gun with ak74 hand guards and gas tube but with the fixed stock? I was trying to imagine this but couldn't quite picture it.

cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 5:59 PM
Just a quick question about the Saiga, does anybody have a picture of the gun with ak74 hand guards and gas tube but with the fixed stock? I was trying to imagine this but couldn't quite picture it.

I'm not sure what AK74 handguards look like, but there is a guy in the for sale section selling a saiga with all kinds of aftermarket parts.. Looks pretty sweet, just a little out of my price range though!

strangerdude
10-20-2009, 5:59 PM
Do you have to worry about other parts of the rifle rusting, other than just the barrel?

I believe it's the bore, chamber, and bolt. When I shoot my surplus i spray it down with windex just before i leave the range and clean at home.

cgseanp1
10-20-2009, 6:04 PM
I believe it's the bore, chamber, and bolt. When I shoot my surplus i spray it down with windex just before i leave the range and clean at home.

cool, well I'm for sure getting one!

sd_shooter
10-20-2009, 8:30 PM
I believe it's the bore, chamber, and bolt. When I shoot my surplus i spray it down with windex just before i leave the range and clean at home.

I just run a patch soaked in Windex down the bore and then clean as usual. No rust in my SKS or 7.62 Saiga after 8 months of using cheap surplus ammo.

69Mach1
10-20-2009, 8:59 PM
Just a quick question about the Saiga, does anybody have a picture of the gun with ak74 hand guards and gas tube but with the fixed stock? I was trying to imagine this but couldn't quite picture it.

Here you go.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230252

69Mach1
10-20-2009, 9:00 PM
I just got a Saiga 5.45 and I can tell you a few things. First, it is very well made. Built like the proverbial 'AK tank', the fit & finish for a brand new, sparkling ALL black, sub-$400 rifle is exceptional. Plus, it really is the only "real AK" you can still get new (the Ishmash factory went bankrupt & ceased all manufacture, so buy NOW!), so you get that 'heritage' feeling with it. Mine came from Atlantic Firearms still sealed in the box. Inside, it comes wrapped in 1 layer of oil paper, and 1 layer of foam, all of which is enclosed in a big, plastic bag. You will also find in the box: 2 booklets - one is a 'proof' or 'certification/inspection' book with factory stampings & signatures (in Russian!!) from the people who built your gun. The other is the owner's manual; a cleaning rod, Military-type cleaning kit, and black plastic oil bottle. Just a great package for under four bones. Put that together with a 1080-rd. can of 5.45 (from AIM - $150), and you have about the BEST 'bang-for your-buck' shooting package available anywhere! Oh, and AK-74 mags work perfectly well in it. No bullet guide need be installed (at least that's the case with my 30-rd. Russian 'plum' mags from the 1970's - 1980's).:cool:

Supersonic, no need to panic buy, there was no bankruptcy.

supersonic
10-21-2009, 6:04 AM
Unless the situation has changed??? http://english.pravda.ru/business/companies/21-09-2009/109412-kalashnikov-0

69Mach1
10-21-2009, 7:13 AM
Unless the situation has changed??? http://english.pravda.ru/business/companies/21-09-2009/109412-kalashnikov-0

http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=109991

Арбитраж прекратил производство по иску о банкротстве Ижмаша
Арбитражный суд Удмуртии в среду прекратил производство по иску удмуртского ООО Гремиха о банкротстве Ижевского машиностроительного завода (Ижмаш), сообщил представитель Ижмаша.
С иском о признании Ижмаша банкротом Гремиха обратилась в сентябре. Суд назначил рассмотрение дела на 7 октября. Ижмаш, со своей стороны, заявлял, что проверит обоснованность претензий ООО Гремиха через правоохранительные органы. По версии завода, эта компания не имеет к нему отношения.
Дело было урегулировано в досудебном порядке, сказал представитель завода. РИА Новости

Translation

Arbitration dismissed the claim bankruptcy Izhmash
Arbitration Court of Udmurtia on Wednesday dismissed the lawsuit Udmurt OOO Gremikha "the bankruptcy of the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant (Izhmash), said the representative of Izhmash.
Since the claim for recognition Izhmash bankrupt "Gremikha" addressed in September. The court appointed a hearing on October 7. Izhmash.However, for its part, claimed that checks the validity of claims OOO Gremikha "through law enforcement agencies. According to the plant, the company has no relation to him.
"The case was settled in pre-trial order", - said the representative of the plant. RIA Novosti

crassus
01-21-2010, 7:32 PM
I have the 380 with the long barrel. I can get 1.5" group at 100Yds with my Nikon Prostaf 3-9X40 and about a 4 inch group with the open sights, not clamped down. This gun is accurate and reliable. The action is smooth and has never failed. The problem is the 1.5" scope group is about two foot off center. I have bought three different brackets and every one gives the exact same bad alignment to the bore. I have taken it back to the vendor and all they could do was bore site it' even worse that i had it. RAAC is the warranty vendor and they keep blowing me off. Their service after the sale sucks. I just ordered some Burris Z Rings that allow you to orient the scope closer to center. I had to buy a R700 just to hunt with a scope this year. Buyer beware!!

killshot44
01-21-2010, 7:48 PM
I have bought three different brackets and every one gives the exact same bad alignment to the bore. I have taken it back to the vendor and all they could do was bore site it' even worse that i had it.

Check out the TWS Rail at SolarTactical.com. It mounts solid, hugging the dust cover. Holds zero. Machined aluminum, very light. Puts the rail over the receiver.

No strange off-center, too-high side mounts....