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Dubster
10-19-2009, 5:27 PM
A week ago last Thursday I was packing up to go camping in the Sierras. Had the front door propped open for ease of loading. Back door was open with our dog laying just outside the back door.

I'm returning from the bedroom down the hallway to discover a neighbors two pit bulls IN MY HOUSE crouching and trying to sneak up on my dog. I immediately jumped between the two pits and my dog and starting yelling at them to "get out, go home". The back up into my entryway and I grab the shotgun. My Wife immediately yells at me "don't shoot them", "we won't go camping if you do with all the crap we'll have to deal with". The whole time I'm holding the dogs off trying to get them to back out of the house.

So, I use the strobe feature of my Streamlight flashlight on the dogs and it dissorients enough to yell at them and get them our on the porch. I then tried to push them farther and one of them lunges at me and I punch it in the head with the flashlight in my hand. Hurt like hell.

The dogs finally retreat enough for me to go back in the house and close the door. My Wife is on 911 at this point. Sheriff shows but Animal Control didn't come out and contact the owners until the following Monday. Sherrif talks to Animal Control on the phone and decides to let them deal with it. Animal control suggest we do a Private Persons Arrest on the owner and we agree. They say they will come out to do this on Friday, Saturday or Sunday and that they would call if they weren't coming on each day. They called on Friday, too busy. We waited all day Saturday and Sunday, no call, no show.

Any advice? Would I have been justified in shooting the dogs even though I'm sure it would have ruined our trip?

I feel stupid letting it get to the point where I had to punch one of the dogs.

Dub

HondaMasterTech
10-19-2009, 5:30 PM
I think you would have been justified.

LAK Supply
10-19-2009, 5:36 PM
I shot a neighbor's Pit a few years back... had been out constantly... attacked people and attacked/killed pets. Animal control was never able to make it out before the dog was gone... they said if it came back on the property we could shoot it. I did... problem solved. I would have blasted them... they're obviously not scared of invading your space, or of you if they're willing to attack you to the point of physical contact.

Katana
10-19-2009, 5:44 PM
You're lucky it turned out the way it did. It's good you didn't have to shoot the dogs, but you took a huge chance by not doing so.

Super Spy
10-19-2009, 6:02 PM
I hear pepper spray works great on dogs too.

bigmike82
10-19-2009, 6:12 PM
Is there a reason you haven't spoken with the neighbor about what happened?

Dubster
10-19-2009, 6:42 PM
Is there a reason you haven't spoken with the neighbor about what happened?

Twice, but there is a cultural/language barrier. Two families with renters on top of that in one house. They're not close to me as we are on acreage. First time, politely told them they have to control the dogs. Second time told them I wasn't going to put up with it and now this. Animal Control is neutered.

They absolutely will not do anything about it until somebody gets bit or worse.

Dub

Glock21sfsd
10-19-2009, 6:53 PM
I am a dog lover but I will say this if any dog was in my house and came at me it would be 1 dead dog. I am sure my wife would hate me but I wont let someone elses pet hurt my family or my pets. But thats just me

berto
10-19-2009, 7:00 PM
You could have shot it when it lunged at you but it was on your porch and some folks would say you should have ushered the dogs out of your house and closed the door. It was really a no win situation for you. It's too bad the dogs will likely end up bearing the brunt of their owner's stupidity.

1859sharps
10-19-2009, 7:02 PM
If you choose to shoot. Just remember, while shooting the dogs maybe justifiable.... YOU are still responsible for where your bullets go. Just like in a human on human shooting.

I know someone who was being terrorized by a neighborhood dog. the local LEO actually said it would be ok to shoot the dog given the circumstances. I can't remember them...but where I am going with this is, she talked to me for gun advice, what to buy, how to shoot etc.

bottom line in this case I strongly advised against getting a gun solely for possibly shooting the dog if it attacked again. why? where she lived there was no possible way she could discharge a firearm and not risking shooting a bystander.

nicki
10-19-2009, 7:05 PM
About 15 years ago I was collecting signatures for petitions in the neighborhood when a dog came off the property and bit me in my right arm by my elbow.

The bite didn't go through my jacket, but their was enough pressure than my skin was broken, I still have some residual scar by my right elbow.

I smacked that dog with a clip board and I was ready to kill that dog with my bare hands, I just felt a primal rage, I was pissed.

I went home and I did call animal control. I never saw that dog again. I never contacted the owners and didn't bother trying to sue.

Animals don't think, they act, you can't reason with them. If an animal attacks you, by all means, defend yourself.

It is better to fill out a police report than get mauled.

Nicki

thefurball
10-19-2009, 8:04 PM
12ga, #2 shot. Effective and not a lot of over penetration. Had to use it years ago back on the farm on a shepard that was attacking livestock.

If a dog attacks you defend yourself.

Peter W Bush
10-19-2009, 8:12 PM
If I saw a pitbull in my house I think I would have shot it right then and there. The only thing I would be posting here is "Questions on how to clean up pitbull guts"

CSACANNONEER
10-19-2009, 8:21 PM
I had to kill a neighbor's shepard once. They refused to control and contain their dogs and sometimes I'd find up to TEN dogs running in a pack on the back of the 10 acres I was living on. No LEA would do anything except to tell me that "people out there have their own ways of solving problems." So, I finally did. I ended up shooting one dog, the father of my puppy (unplanned/unwanted litter) and some how, I never saw the pack again. Funny how that worked.

In your case, sure, I bet you felt threatened and had resonable cause to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family. But, it would have been a mess to clean up. Your gun might have been "booked into evidence". And, you would have spent the next few days explaining yourself over and over to every different agency you can think of plus each one of your neighbors. You did good and were able to keep control of the situation. Now, go after the SOB dog owner and make him pay for his irresposible actions. (legally, of course). It's a shame that the poor inoccent dogs had to get mixed up with him. Good Luck!

glockman19
10-19-2009, 8:48 PM
I have no doubt that in CA you would have been brought up on charges for at very least discharging a firearm in the city limits.

I have been attacked by dogs 3 times one a doberman, one a pit, one a shepard mix. All happened in my late teens and early twenties...over 2 dacades ago...Shepard mix took a bit out of my butt. hurt to sit for a week. Lesson...don't turn your back on wild dogs. Doberman got my right arm. Best position to be in IMHO. once your arm is in their mouth just push forward and down a dog's jaw to make the bite harder they choke... I grabbed the windpipe of the dog as it clutched to my arm and pried him off. he didn't liek it and wimpered away. I grabbed his windpipe really hard. Pit got a swift kick and ran awayafter rethinking another attack. I gave a swift kick to his face and really rang his bell.

I'm not sure I'd shoot a dog unless he were IN my house. Still discharging a firearm unless your life in in iminent danger will always get you into trouble. A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life.

1859sharps
10-19-2009, 8:59 PM
I am fairly certain that even in California shooting a dog under the right circumstances would be considered ok. I am also thinking the OP's situation falls into reasonable.

I suspect, shooting a dog would be treated just like shooting a human from the stand point of was it reasonable. You shoot a chiwawa there is going to be a lot of questions. And you are going to probably have a very hard time justifying it. You shoot an aggressive pit bull in your house...I am thinking your probably going to not face criminal issues. Civil maybe another issue, but criminal, probably not. Not that I am a lawyer or anything. But it stands to reason if it is legal to shoot a human intruder in your house, it's probably also legal to apply the same to a dog.

Katana
10-19-2009, 9:24 PM
I'm not sure I'd shoot a dog unless he were IN my house. Still discharging a firearm unless your life in in iminent danger will always get you into trouble. A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life.
Two pit bulls working as a team is definitely an imminent danger.

Rule .308
10-19-2009, 10:19 PM
My uncle had to smoke the neighbor's dog one time, sheriff's main concern was that it was harrassing his livestock and that he shot it with a multiple projectile weapon. Took down a good sized Chesapeake Bay Retriever with a Remington 870, pissed off the neighbors good and proper but there were no repeat offenses.

To answer your question though, I would have smoked both of them, which ever one was closest to the door would've got it first and then his buddy, beware of your backdrop though.

CSACANNONEER
10-19-2009, 10:21 PM
I'm not sure I'd shoot a dog unless he were IN my house. Still discharging a firearm unless your life in in iminent danger will always get you into trouble. A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life.

Uh, your life doesn't need to be being threated, just your safety and well being. It is perfectly acceptable (and commendable in my book) to shoot or use any kind of deadly force on a rapist even though the rapist was not threatening to kill you. Also, if the OP had chosen to make a mess in his home, he would have been protecting his family as well as his own self. Since his dog is considered "property", I'm not sure if the use of deadly force to protect his "property" would be easily defendable though.

If a full grown dog isn't a danger to a healthy, full grown man, why are so many criminals more scared of police dogs than police officers with guns?

wash
10-20-2009, 8:22 AM
A nasty Pitt Bull could kill just about anyone if it had a mind to.

Since you said you are on acreage, I would have been tempted to shoot, shovel and shut up.

No police or animal control interference. I'm guessing that you're not in city limits so no one will come out for shots fired. If the neighbors are upset, tell them to pound sand. The police will never get a warrant to dig up several acres to find a couple nuisance Pitt Bulls.

Then go on your trip.

not-fishing
10-20-2009, 9:00 AM
Three S's

Shoot

Shovel

Silence

A buddy of mine has been doing it for 30 years. He never has to with the good neighbors, only the worthless ones.

xxdabroxx
10-20-2009, 9:26 AM
One question, tile or carpet. If carpet i would have done anything within my power not to shoot.

Dubster
10-20-2009, 12:39 PM
To answer your question though, I would have smoked both of them, which ever one was closest to the door would've got it first and then his buddy, beware of your backdrop though.[/QUOTE]


Backdrop is not an issue. We're on acreage and my land butts up against 35 acres of Avacados. It's unincorporated and the neighbors have actually encouraged my squirrel iradication campaign with the shotgun. Although it's the fun way to deal with the pests I've found a more effecient way to deal with the squirrels. The squirrelinator rocks!

Dub

Steyrlp10
10-20-2009, 12:52 PM
Holy cow, what a scary situation!

That's one of the conversations in my house because our neighbors (nice people, but poor judgment in a lot of areas) has a female pit. Whenever I'm in our yard with my two dogs, that thing rams the fence boards and is clawing like mad. I try not to be out for an extended period because I know if it comes crashing through, I'll have to kill it or have my dogs/me/my family get the wrong end instead of it.

My lady neighbor is not too bright and has already told me that her pit tore into her other two little, lap dogs. (I don't understand some people.)

Meanwhile, we make sure the fence is in good shape and have something within hand's reach...

gaucho750
10-20-2009, 12:59 PM
One question, tile or carpet. If carpet i would have done anything within my power not to shoot.

That would be my only concern if I lived on acreage.

dantodd
10-20-2009, 1:17 PM
I try not to be out for an extended period because I know if it comes crashing through, I'll have to kill it or have my dogs/me/my family get the wrong end instead of it.

Staying in the yard a little longer once means peace in the backyard for years to come.

Kid Stanislaus
10-20-2009, 8:31 PM
Is there a reason you haven't spoken with the neighbor about what happened?

WHAT? And become the recipient of biggest pile of invective since Adolph Hitler realised the Allies had landed?

Kid Stanislaus
10-20-2009, 8:36 PM
.....bottom line in this case I strongly advised against getting a gun solely for possibly shooting the dog if it attacked again. why? where she lived there was no possible way she could discharge a firearm and not risking shooting a bystander.

Does the word SHOTGUN ring a bell with you?! Even birdshot at close range will stop any dog in its tracks if you hit it in the face.

Kid Stanislaus
10-20-2009, 8:40 PM
Glockman19 wrote: "A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What galaxy did YOU just fly in from?!

ilbob
10-21-2009, 6:37 AM
There seem to be two kinds of pit bull owners. The ones that think it is funny to allow their dogs to run loose and attack people and the responsible ones that keep them secured.

I would hate to have to shoot a dog that came in my house, just because of the mess. If I did, and I knew who the owner was, I would be demanding damages from them. Small claims court.

I think you did the best thing you could under the circumstances.

You probably need to become a pest at animal control and start demanding they do their job and deal with these irresponsible dog owners. Get other people involved to help you.

SJgunguy24
10-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I wish I still had my Bobcat. Geronimo shredded my neighbors 180lb Rottwieler. I'm sure he could take 1 Pit but 2 I wouldn't like his chances. I'll tell you though, 35lbs of muscle, teeth, and claws might have stopped those dogs in their tracks.

I would treat those dogs just like a person, to hell with the neighbors and what they think.

cineski
10-21-2009, 1:30 PM
Yes, dogs do kill, and they can maul you. I don't care what the judges would say, I'm not going to let this happen to my fiancee or myself. The dog would have been smoked.

http://pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm

I have no doubt that in CA you would have been brought up on charges for at very least discharging a firearm in the city limits.

I have been attacked by dogs 3 times one a doberman, one a pit, one a shepard mix. All happened in my late teens and early twenties...over 2 dacades ago...Shepard mix took a bit out of my butt. hurt to sit for a week. Lesson...don't turn your back on wild dogs. Doberman got my right arm. Best position to be in IMHO. once your arm is in their mouth just push forward and down a dog's jaw to make the bite harder they choke... I grabbed the windpipe of the dog as it clutched to my arm and pried him off. he didn't liek it and wimpered away. I grabbed his windpipe really hard. Pit got a swift kick and ran awayafter rethinking another attack. I gave a swift kick to his face and really rang his bell.

I'm not sure I'd shoot a dog unless he were IN my house. Still discharging a firearm unless your life in in iminent danger will always get you into trouble. A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life.

OlderThanDirt
10-21-2009, 1:49 PM
I have a neighbor that likes dog very much. He would be glad to help you with your problem.

rambo
10-21-2009, 3:43 PM
I have had similar prob before.... my advice is shoot to kill dont wound them then it gets messy and long drawn out process. Make SURE they are dead in the process of STOPING them. You were just trying to stop them and a side effect is they died.

Meplat
10-21-2009, 4:25 PM
That would be my only concern if I lived on acreage.

But if the carpet needs replacing anyway..................

Why not let the dog owner pay for it?

Sunshine
10-21-2009, 5:26 PM
chainsaw :64:

KylaGWolf
10-21-2009, 8:45 PM
Pitbulls are considered a dangerous breed of dog. In most cases the courts would probably just dismiss the case on that ground alone. You said the dogs were in your house and going toward your dog to attack it. At that point you would have been justified in shooting the dogs and not had a problem. Animal control is pretty much useless in most places. I have been bitten by a dog and was not a fun experience. I came very close to having to get the rabies shots since they had trouble finding the dog.

M. Sage
10-21-2009, 8:59 PM
Uh, your life doesn't need to be being threated, just your safety and well being. It is perfectly acceptable (and commendable in my book) to shoot or use any kind of deadly force on a rapist even though the rapist was not threatening to kill you. Also, if the OP had chosen to make a mess in his home, he would have been protecting his family as well as his own self. Since his dog is considered "property", I'm not sure if the use of deadly force to protect his "property" would be easily defendable though.

If a full grown dog isn't a danger to a healthy, full grown man, why are so many criminals more scared of police dogs than police officers with guns?

It's only deadly force if it's directed at a person. Remember, a dog is only property. You're not using deadly force which injures or kills, you're destroying property with a firearm. The only question is if it's justified by the circumstances. I'd say that it is.

I think I'd drop the neighbors off a little pictogram showing them what would happen the next time their dogs decided that me casa es sus casa, their perros would be muy muerto. And I'll also say that the next time I caught those dogs on my land, I'd be expending at least two rounds of ammunition.

redcliff
10-21-2009, 9:13 PM
I have no doubt that in CA you would have been brought up on charges for at very least discharging a firearm in the city limits.

I have been attacked by dogs 3 times one a doberman, one a pit, one a shepard mix. All happened in my late teens and early twenties...over 2 dacades ago...Shepard mix took a bit out of my butt. hurt to sit for a week. Lesson...don't turn your back on wild dogs. Doberman got my right arm. Best position to be in IMHO. once your arm is in their mouth just push forward and down a dog's jaw to make the bite harder they choke... I grabbed the windpipe of the dog as it clutched to my arm and pried him off. he didn't liek it and wimpered away. I grabbed his windpipe really hard. Pit got a swift kick and ran awayafter rethinking another attack. I gave a swift kick to his face and really rang his bell.

I'm not sure I'd shoot a dog unless he were IN my house. Still discharging a firearm unless your life in in iminent danger will always get you into trouble. A dog is NOT, unless you're an old weak man or woman, a danger to your life.

Actually, we had an incident up here where a homeowner shot someone elses dog that had enterred his back yard and threatened him. No charges filed at all. Apparently there is a court case in California that sets a precedent whereby you can't be charged with discharing a firearm in city limits if you're doing it in self defense and the case was specifically about a dog attack. Edit: the citation is apparently People vs. Lee.