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aethyr
10-19-2009, 9:53 AM
In my life I've endeavored to learn some new things/hobbies/activities. When I learned to ride motorcycles years ago, everyone said start small. When I picked up tennis, they said avoid buying the best racquet. The general advice for noobs is to avoid buying the best equipment...I've sometimes followed that advice and other time I haven't.

So here I am considering reloading and the general advice is to avoid the "best" reloading equipment if you're a first time reloader.

My main reason for considering a 1050 is speed. I have a few hours of free time a day and frankly I don't want to spend it reloading...I'd rather be shooting. I'm willing to pay the initial cost of learning. The question is, can I learn reloading on a 1050 and will it actually be faster?

I am kind of a DIYer so I think I will stick with it. But at the same time I know some things you just can't DIY.

Mikeb
10-19-2009, 9:59 AM
I'm not familiar with the 1050 but from what I understand it is intended as a professional machine. I don't believe it has the same warranty as the other Dillon presses and I understand it is more difficult to change calibers.
You never mentioned what you want to reload.
take care
Mike

aethyr
10-19-2009, 10:07 AM
Pistol initially - 9mm, 40, 45...

But later 223/5.56, 6.5 grendel...

I shoot around 1000-1500 /month. I know from my research that those numbers point to dillon 550 or 650. But I don't want to spend 2-3 hours reloading.

I know the 1050 is billed as a commercial press. My main concern is speed. If its fast and learnable then maybe its for me.

Triple R Munitions
10-19-2009, 10:20 AM
the 1050 is a great machine. but to get into reloading i would recomend doing some reading. start learning the lingo and why things do "what they do". the 1050 does alot of things all at once and can be intimindating because it is happenig so fast. but if your down in my area, y ar welcome to come by and take a look at one and how it works. im in 91010.

Milsurp Collector
10-19-2009, 10:42 AM
I shoot around 1000-1500 /month. I know from my research that those numbers point to dillon 550 or 650. But I don't want to spend 2-3 hours reloading.

I know the 1050 is billed as a commercial press. My main concern is speed. If its fast and learnable then maybe its for me.

Most people probably don't shoot as much as you do or are willing to spend $1559 at first. But in your particular case it might be a smart way to go. :cool:

maschronic
10-19-2009, 10:43 AM
get yourself a 550. start from there. once you get better, move up.

aethyr
10-19-2009, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the offer. That's kind of a drive, but maybe oneof these days. I do have a friend who reloads on an old dillon 450 so its not like I would be completely helpless.

joelogic
10-19-2009, 10:59 AM
Sure you could start on a 1050 but it's through put is only a couple hundred more per hour. And yes it doesn't have Dillon's lifetime warranty which is important as a lot of pieces breaks. The 1050 shines in processing military brass. Total reloading time is far longer than the ratings for the machines. You have to sort, clean, process, polish, and load. Dillon saying the machine can load 800 rounds per hour is great but that assumes prepped rifle brass or you are loading pistol.

mmartin
10-19-2009, 11:05 AM
if you want to talk about the usefulness of starting on the 1050, PM my hubby Dragonaught...
he's got a 550 and two 1050s (and a bunch of other stuff) and can talk to you about what it takes to get proficient on the 1050.
megan

mmartin
10-19-2009, 11:07 AM
also search in the reloading forum on "reloading clinics forming" if you're interested in more hands-on and info... we've got a bunch of these clinics in planning right now. let me know if you need links.
megan

Spyduh
10-19-2009, 11:18 AM
Pistol initially - 9mm, 40, 45...

But later 223/5.56, 6.5 grendel...

I shoot around 1000-1500 /month. I know from my research that those numbers point to dillon 550 or 650. But I don't want to spend 2-3 hours reloading.

I know the 1050 is billed as a commercial press. My main concern is speed. If its fast and learnable then maybe its for me.


This is a lot of information that I'm about to give to you below for a new reloader. I highly recommend you check out a reloading clinic before making a decision on buying anything first.
Sign up for one of them here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232460



If you plan on reloading that many calibers. You DO NOT want a 1050. 1050's are intended for commercial reloaders and people who rarely switch calibers and want to loads 2k+ in one sitting. Most people who own 1050's also own a 650 and/or 550s. The 1050's is not their only press!

650's are the best for people who want to reload multiple calibers. 650's can easily pump out 1k once you know what your doing and get into rhythm.

550's is better for new reloaders as 650's have a lot more steps to look out for and more potential to go wrong very quickly if you are not an experienced reloader.

I personally recommend either a Lee 4 Hole Turret or a RCBC Rock Chucker. Lee Turret is a great begineer machine to learn off of and you can get a kit from midway or where ever dirt cheap. You can also find great deals on used Lee's all the time. However if you plan on shooting long range target shooting or making hunting rounds. I recommend you purchase the Rock Chucker as this is a machine you will always want even if you have a progressive press to make extremely accurate ammunition.

Reloading is very expensive to get setup. Most people forget to realize that not only you need the press and dies. You will also need to buy brass, bullets, powder, primers, case (cleaning) tumbler, brass polish (use NuFinish (Car) Polish), walnut or corn media (I use both and stock both), Case separator, case gauge, calipers (measure the OAL), SEVERAL reloading manuals (this is mandatory you at least buy 1. The more the better because each manufacture uses different data).

This is just the basic stuff you need to buy and the deeper you get into it, the more expensive it gets. If you plan on reloading multiple calibers, you'll need to buy additional tool heads, dies, and components for it.

My 650 tool heals for pistol calibers cost roughly $200 with my C&R dealer discount. If you don't have a C&R, then it would cost roughly $250.
My 650 tool heads for rifle calibers cost roughly $300 with my C&R dealer discount. If you don't have a C&R, then I think it would cost about $350?

One nice feature with the 1050, is the built in swager. If you go with any other press you will need to buy a swager. Dillon Super Swager are about $100 shipped.


When you reload rifle calibers you will need to Trim! So on top of the already expensive cost, you will need to buy a trimmer for that 1050 which is about $250+. With out that 1050 trimmer, then its worse off than a 650 or 550. It's like having a big car with a small engine.

You will want to buy a Giraud or Gracey power trimmer. I purchased a RCBS Trim Matte Center, while it still beats the hell out of trimming by hand it's not effective for bulk reloading and better suited for match/hunting reloaders. I learned the hard way that the Giraud is the best for trimming bulk brass if you use a 550/650.

Edit: One benefit that Dillon has over most other reloading press companies is the massive community on http://www.brianenos.com/forums/

aethyr
10-19-2009, 12:13 PM
I do plan to churn out batches of ammo, even though its for different calibers. So I plan to pump out maybe 8-10k of 9mm, then same for 40 and so on. I will not be switching calibers every few hundred rounds, regardless of which setup I end up getting. I don't want to spend time reloading every week. I'd rather devote 1 or 2 evenings and pump out all my caliber needs for the next 6 months and not touch it again until I need to.

My plan is to spend roughly 2x the cost of the reloader itself for my startup equipment. So for a 650 which costs about $600, I plan to spend around $1200. For the 1050 I would plan to spend about $3k in total equipment.

I will most likly add a bulllet feeder like GIS or kiss and will definitely get a case loader if I go 650.

Spyduh
10-19-2009, 12:41 PM
I do plan to churn out batches of ammo, even though its for different calibers. So I plan to pump out maybe 8-10k of 9mm, then same for 40 and so on. I will not be switching calibers every few hundred rounds, regardless of which setup I end up getting. I don't want to spend time reloading every week. I'd rather devote 1 or 2 evenings and pump out all my caliber needs for the next 6 months and not touch it again until I need to.

My plan is to spend roughly 2x the cost of the reloader itself for my startup equipment. So for a 650 which costs about $600, I plan to spend around $1200. For the 1050 I would plan to spend about $3k in total equipment.

I will most likly add a bulllet feeder like GIS or kiss and will definitely get a case loader if I go 650.

11k of 9mm for just components is roughly $1100 with todays market price if you were able to get everything with a dealer discount or find dirt cheap deals. That's roughly 10 cents per round. You may be able to find cheaper if you look really hard and buy in massive bulk. This does Not include brass which ranges from as low as 3 cents to 6 cents per piece.

Make sure to budget those large component costs that into your fiances.

aethyr
10-19-2009, 4:00 PM
ok maybe 11k was a bit high. But 5K easily. I just spent almost $460 for 2k rounds of factory 9mm, so if I can go over 2x that for the same price, and some initial cash and time investment, its worth it for two reasons:

1) cheaper in the long run

2) ab962 will make ammo too scarce

Spyduh
10-19-2009, 4:40 PM
ok maybe 11k was a bit high. But 5K easily. I just spent almost $460 for 2k rounds of factory 9mm, so if I can go over 2x that for the same price, and some initial cash and time investment, its worth it for two reasons:

1) cheaper in the long run

2) ab962 will make ammo too scarce

Seriously, before you do anything. Go to your local Reloading Clinic and see if you even like reloading first. Getting a hands on before even buying anything is very important.

Reloading isn't for every! There are some people who buy all this equipment and turn out that they hate it with passion. I'm not saying you will or will not, but it's very typical that people jump into reloading and don't realize how much time and money it really takes to reload and they end up either boxing it up or selling the equipment at a loss. There's also different type of reloaders out there and not one press fits each reloading niche.

Which area do you live in I'm co-teaching the Sac Reloading Clinic if you're in that area and would like to join, please sign up here.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232460

I actually live in the SF Bay Area but driving up to co-teach it with my buddy. After that first one, I might be teaching or co-teaching one closer in my area. Only problem is my garage is very small but my setup is very efficient for a few people at a time. Max is prob 5-6 people at a time.


But your best bet if you want to reload multiple calibers. Just even 3 calibers is to go with a 650. The 1050's are very difficult to change calibers from what i hear. It takes me 2-3 minutes to do a complete caliber change from say 45ACP to 223REM. This includes cleaning the press off and re-oiling/greasing spots and changing the priming setup from LARGE to SMALL.

joelogic
10-19-2009, 6:05 PM
Reloading saves money because you reload not cause you load. If you are going to load 8000 rounds of 9mm, thats a lot of money tied up.

Spyduh
10-19-2009, 6:10 PM
Reloading saves money because you reload not cause you load. If you are going to load 8000 rounds of 9mm, thats a lot of money tied up.

Exactly!


Unless you shoot like 2k+ of 9mm a month. Then yes you'll save money not buying factory. But if you plan to shoot 500 rounds of 9mm a month and store the rest. It's a lot of cash tied up into one caliber. Especially if you want to load multiple calibers and have components on hand for each one.

docrice
10-19-2009, 6:45 PM
There's another angle to reloading: learning the intricacies of ammunition construction and their variances. I'm just starting to reload, but I went straight to a XL 650 because, like you, prefer to shoot rather than reload. However, for me the understanding of cartridge construction process is an important step in gaining knowledge of firearms use in general.

freakshow10mm
10-19-2009, 7:21 PM
The 1050 loads just as fast as the 650 with a case feeder, about 800-1000rds per hour.

With the 1050 you gain a thousand dollars in price, a pocket swaging station (to remove military crimp and uniform pockets), an extra station for powder check die or bullet feeder, but only get a one year warranty. Your conversions are twice as expensive and take a lot longer. Dillon has a stretch payment; 1/3 when it ships, then another 30 days later and final payment 30 days after that.

The 650 is just as fast as the 1050 but can load more cartridges than the 1050, is $1000 less, has much cheaper caliber change costs, and retains the lifetime warranty.

The 550 is a manual index that can load 500/hr, is $100 cheaper than the 650, cheaper changeover costs, and it only takes 5 minutes to change it out.

Mikeb
10-19-2009, 7:28 PM
There's another angle to reloading: learning the intricacies of ammunition construction and their variances. I'm just starting to reload, but I went straight to a XL 650 because, like you, prefer to shoot rather than reload. However, for me the understanding of cartridge construction process is an important step in gaining knowledge of firearms use in general.

Give that man a gold star. It is a wonderful process for those inclined. For myself I have to make sure I'm in the right state of mind. Focused and without distractions are the first requirements. If you have the brass you save some money, but not all brass likes to be reloaded forever. So brass management becomes an issue (in some cases).
You said you're familiar with the process...
take care
Mike

cornflake
10-19-2009, 8:34 PM
Have you considered other brand? IMHO, Any of Dillon reloaders are priced higher then its worth. Both in initial investment and caliber conversion.

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bruce381
10-19-2009, 8:40 PM
The 1050 loads just as fast as the 650 with a case feeder, about 800-1000rds per hour.

With the 1050 you gain a thousand dollars in price, a pocket swaging station (to remove military crimp and uniform pockets), an extra station for powder check die or bullet feeder, but only get a one year warranty. Your conversions are twice as expensive and take a lot longer. Dillon has a stretch payment; 1/3 when it ships, then another 30 days later and final payment 30 days after that.

The 650 is just as fast as the 1050 but can load more cartridges than the 1050, is $1000 less, has much cheaper caliber change costs, and retains the lifetime warranty.

The 550 is a manual index that can load 500/hr, is $100 cheaper than the 650, cheaper changeover costs, and it only takes 5 minutes to change it out.


I agree 100% but I would start with a 650

Spyduh
10-19-2009, 9:35 PM
I agree 100% but I would start with a 650

I also agree that Dillon stuff is priced high.

But with the transferable NO BS warranty will last many lifetimes. In 30-40 years, I bet my grand kids will still be using my press and get all parts warrantied for free.

To add to that, there is something no other press company has: The Brian Enos forums http://www.brianenos.com/forums/ forum. That in itself is very valuable to have a community that can help with reloading. That is why we are all on Calguns is it not? To belong to a community that believes in firearm ownership for California residents.

I'm not bias against other presses as they all will work but with different levels of ease and functionality. I started off with a Lee 4 Turret and used a Lee Loadmaster. They all worked but every press has it's own little quirks. The best support and easiest to get going and change calibers was by far my 650. The Lee Loadmaster was horrible in comparison and an expensive mistake trying to go cheap.

It was an expensive investment but how I see it is. If you're going to buy something. Buy something that's quality and will last a long time. That's how you get your best bang for your buck. If you buy a low quality product you will have to replace it over and over. I.E. buying a $200 MAACO paint job that will last 2 years max or a quality auto shop paint job for $2000 that will last the lifetime of the car.

There will always be people who buy the lower end stuff and just replacing it over and over. Everyone does their own thing and everyone's an adult that can make their own financial decisions that's best for them.

cornflake
10-19-2009, 10:58 PM
But with the transferable NO BS warranty will last many lifetimes. In 30-40 years, I bet my grand kids will still be using my press and get all parts warrantied for free.


IMHO, with any luck, reloading technology like Dillion 650 would probably be available for entry level price in 10 years. Your grand kids will either be shoting ray gun or if conventional firearm are still in use, their top-of-line reloader would be fully automatic. :) So, buying a Dillion for your its lifetime warranty is probably not a smart move.

Oh, almost forgot, if your grand kids still in live in CA by then, they probably wouldn't allow to have gun altogether. :p

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freakshow10mm
10-20-2009, 5:47 AM
Have you considered other brand? IMHO, Any of Dillon reloaders are priced higher then its worth. Both in initial investment and caliber conversion.

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For volume, the only other press that compares is the LNL AP. The Lee progressives are a joke. The RCBS isn't as refined as the others. The LNL AP has Dillon 650 features for a Dillon 550 price. If you want the best value that's probably your better choice.

aethyr
10-20-2009, 9:33 AM
How well does the case feeder work on the LnL?

One of the reasons I want to go dillon are the safety features. There are threads of primer accidents where the dillon's safety features protected the reloader from injury.

cornflake
10-20-2009, 9:48 AM
Got a link to the Dillion's primer safety features info?? I wasn't aware any special was done to Dillon's primer feeding assembly.

As for the case feeder, if you ever see both unit work, they are pretty much the same.

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freakshow10mm
10-20-2009, 9:49 AM
The case feeder of both the Horndy and Dillon operate on the same design principles. I don't think there is much difference and it's rumored both of theirs is made by the same subcontractor.

freonr22
10-20-2009, 9:53 AM
I used my LNL yesterday as a single stage w/ case feeder to deprime and size so I could remove the lc crimp on the .223. It really was a pleasure. the only issue I had was my palm is getting sore from pulling the handle 2000 times.

Spyduh
10-20-2009, 11:13 AM
I used my LNL yesterday as a single stage w/ case feeder to deprime and size so I could remove the lc crimp on the .223. It really was a pleasure. the only issue I had was my palm is getting sore from pulling the handle 2000 times.

That's what us 650 owners do for rifle calibers. We have 2 tool heads setup.
Edit: *some 650 owners do*. This is the most efficient way. However some are strapped for cash and go with the 1 toolhead method and remove that sizing die in and out.


Toolhead 1 does the sizing/depriming
Toolhead 2 does the reloading

Sheldon
10-20-2009, 10:52 PM
The 1050 loads just as fast as the 650 with a case feeder, about 800-1000rds per hour.

With the 1050 you gain a thousand dollars in price, a pocket swaging station (to remove military crimp and uniform pockets), an extra station for powder check die or bullet feeder, but only get a one year warranty. Your conversions are twice as expensive and take a lot longer. Dillon has a stretch payment; 1/3 when it ships, then another 30 days later and final payment 30 days after that.

The 650 is just as fast as the 1050 but can load more cartridges than the 1050, is $1000 less, has much cheaper caliber change costs, and retains the lifetime warranty.

The 550 is a manual index that can load 500/hr, is $100 cheaper than the 650, cheaper changeover costs, and it only takes 5 minutes to change it out.

I have to disagree with this. I think the 1050 is faster and has built in features to make things run smoother and easier. What makes it really faster to me is the priming system is different on the 1050 than the other presses Dillon sells. It primes on the downstroke of the operating handle, whereas on the other machines you need to push forward on the operating handle at the end of the stroke. That little extra move takes that little bit of effort and time that adds up in the long run. You may forget to do it sometimes as well, but you can't on the 1050. The swager feature is nice, but if you run mixed brass you will feel the differences in web thickness in cases as the swager works and truth be told, I usually take the swager off. Toolheads are crazy expensive....about $200 each and the changeover time is longer. I run mine for 9mm, 38 Spl, and 45 ACP......I would like to get another toolhead for .223 Rem sometime in the future. I also still have a 550B press for all the other calibers I load....the lower volume stuff.

For rifle ammo I prep the cases beforehand and then load them up as needed. I picked up a Giraud trimmer after selling off my Dillon trimmer. I like the Giraud better, but there are plenty of guys who think the Dillon is better/quicker.

The 650XL presses are fine too. The security of the lifetime warranty is nice. I sold off my two 650 presses when I found a cheap used 1050 press. I originally got the 1050 to flip on Ebay for a quick buck, but after using it, decided to sell off the 650 presses. If I had not found that 1050 set up already with a couple calibers that I needed, I probably would not have kept it. The toolhead and conversion kits costs would have been expensive for my meager budget, but as it was it came with 3 conversion kits (of which 2 I needed) and an extra toolhead. So all I needed to do was trade the kit I didn't need for one I did and buy a used toolhead to be set up for 3 calibers. If I hadn't found that deal I would still be happily running the two 650s.

aethyr
10-20-2009, 10:53 PM
Got a link to the Dillion's primer safety features info?? I wasn't aware any special was done to Dillon's primer feeding assembly.

As for the case feeder, if you ever see both unit work, they are pretty much the same.

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Sorry, there was a post on brianenos site about a guy that had a primer det on a 650 and was unscathed. Maybe the hornady has protection too.

freakshow10mm
10-21-2009, 6:24 AM
I have to disagree with this. I think the 1050 is faster and has built in features to make things run smoother and easier. What makes it really faster to me is the priming system is different on the 1050 than the other presses Dillon sells.
Both will load about the same speed, 800-1,000 per hour. The 1050 will be closer to 1,000 per hour than the 650 w/feeder, because, as you mentioned it primes on the down stroke. With an auto drive you can run 1200rph and manually with a bullet feeder you can run about 1800rph.

The swager feature is nice, but if you run mixed brass you will feel the differences in web thickness in cases as the swager works and truth be told, I usually take the swager off.
Most remove the swager unless they know they are running crimped brass.

Dragonaught
10-21-2009, 9:39 AM
In many ways the 1050 is easyer to load on ONCE IT'S SET UP it's a no brainer.
I have 2 1050's one set up for small primers and one for large, that is the tricky part of the change over.
The 1050 has interchangeable tool heads to facilitate diffrent calibers and you have to change shell plates as well.
It comes with auto case,powder and primer feeders and you can add bullet & case trimmer to that as well.
If you get the auto primer fill tube tool you will be screaming your way to 2000+ rounds per hour...........oh what fun!!!!! Every crank of the handel is a loaded round.
With 8 stations there is almost no limit to what you can do and it produces a more factory type loading.
Seating and crimping are done at diffrent stations.

Who said going for the best is not so wise...........have fun!!!!!

aethyr
10-21-2009, 9:45 AM
Can I get the same speed using. 650 with bullet and case feeder as I can with a 1050?

Dragonaught
10-21-2009, 9:53 AM
Close but not quite.
As far as the warranty goes, over the years Dillon has replaced EVERY part on my 1050 that I had a problem with so they kinda ignore the 1 year bit.
I also feel that the 1050 is a lot stronger press.

Dragonaught
10-21-2009, 9:56 AM
BTW I've had my 1050's for over 22 years now.

freakshow10mm
10-21-2009, 9:57 AM
Can I get the same speed using. 650 with bullet and case feeder as I can with a 1050?
The 1050 will always be slightly faster than the 650 due to the priming method. You can get close, but not exactly the same speed; talking a few hundred rounds per hour.

Wulf
10-21-2009, 10:02 AM
Do the 550. It will make it easy and quick to learn what you need to. Once you're up to speed it will be far from a boat anchor. Even after you upgrade it will still be worth the bench space it takes up. Even if I'm all wrong the resale is so close to 100% you can hardly loose.

Dragonaught
10-21-2009, 10:22 AM
I still use my 550 for loading my .41AE,50AE and most of my larger rifle calibers.

cornflake
10-21-2009, 10:52 AM
Sorry, there was a post on brianenos site about a guy that had a primer det on a 650 and was unscathed. Maybe the hornady has protection too.

I can't seems to find it on his site. So, I'm still not sure what you are referring to as the safety feature on Dillion's primer assembly. A friend of mine have a 650 and I did not recall much difference between Dillion's primer's feeding assembly and that of LNL AP.

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freakshow10mm
10-21-2009, 11:01 AM
The Dillon has a primer shield that is thicker and stronger steel than the others like it. If you blow a Dillon shield you had some primer drama going on.

cornflake
10-21-2009, 12:45 PM
What type of steel is used on Dillon? and at what thickness?

I am going to see if I can get the same information on LNL.

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ar15barrels
10-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Have you considered other brand?
IMHO, Any of Dillon reloaders are priced higher then its worth. Both in initial investment and caliber conversion.

Just so we know where you are coming from, how many rounds do you load per year?

freonr22
10-21-2009, 10:35 PM
Randall what would be the cutoff/payback number for you? I probably gonna do a small 10k batch for storage then maybe 3-500 @ a time every 3 months after that...

ar15barrels
10-21-2009, 10:39 PM
I would not recommend a 1050 unless you want to dedicate one to each cartridge.
The 650 is much easier to swap setups around.
The big advantage of the 650 is the priming and the shorter index of the 8 position shellplate vs. the 5 position shellplate.
Old 1050's are smoother running than Super 1050's due to the older machines having a shorter stroke.

I have 8 dillons right now, two 1050's, two 650's, three 550's and a 450.

Knowing what I know now, I could do everything with a 650 if I was only going to have one press.
I could not ever imagine only having one press though.

I have dedicated my 1050's to 9mm and 223, the two cartridges I shoot the most.
They are also the two most likely cartridges to encounter with crimped primer pockets.
Since I don't sort brass, I don't have to worry about crimped primer pockets when loading on a 1050.

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/dillons.jpg

ar15barrels
10-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Randall what would be the cutoff/payback number for you?

I'm not sure what you are asking.

freonr22
10-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by cornflake http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3240960#post3240960)
Have you considered other brand?
IMHO, Any of Dillon reloaders are priced higher then its worth. Both in initial investment and caliber conversion.


Just so we know where you are coming from, how many rounds do you load per year?


well this is what I was referring to

I have learned from my fuddling around if you are going to do VOLUME then dillon seems to be THE way to go.

ar15barrels
10-21-2009, 10:47 PM
well this is what I was referring to

I'm still not clear on what you are asking.

I was asking him how much he reloads to put his experience level in perspective.
I'm not going to listen to some 3k per year reloader tell us about how Dillon presses are too expensive.
Just because someone does not require a specific level of quality in their tools, that does not mean that other people are not justified in needing/wanting higher quality tools.

The average guy that works on his car can get along just fine with craftsman tools.
The mechanic that makes a living with his tools can certainly justify only owning snap-on.
That average guy is just not qualified to make blanket statements that snap-on tools are too expensive.

freonr22
10-21-2009, 10:49 PM
well put thank you. @ what quantity per year, would you recommend someone go to a 1050 vs a 650 if they are going to have 1-2 main presses

ar15barrels
10-21-2009, 10:54 PM
well put thank you. @ what quantity per year, would you recommend someone go to a 1050 vs a 650 if they are going to have 1-2 main presses

If you load over 1500 a month of a SINGLE cartridge, I would dedicate a 1050 to it.
Under 1000 a month of a SINGLE cartridge and I would swap setups around on a shared 650.
Everyone's tolerance for work is different but most people would probably fall somewhere between those two levels.
The presence of crimped primer pockets can DRASTICALLY lower the pain threshold to make someone want a 1050 for only 300 rounds per month.

cornflake
10-21-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm not going to listen to some 3k per year reloader tell us about how Dillon presses are too expensive.


I was wondering when you are going to get here. :) I'll go ahead and retire from this thread as we have all been down this road before.

Good luck!!

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freakshow10mm
10-22-2009, 5:37 AM
Depends, like Randall said, on how much you reload every month.

To put it in easy ratios, the 550 will load a half a case per hour and the LNL AP, 650 and 1050 will load twice that at a case (1,000) an hour.

Once you determine your average monthly reloading quota, then decide how long you want to spend reloading. If you shoot 2,000 rounds a month but don't mind spreading your time out, then a 550 at 500rph might be a better choice. It will take about 4 hours to load 2 cases, so an hour each Saturday.

On the other hand if you have more money than time and are willing to pay more for speed, then a 650 or 1050 would be better. Two hours on either machine one Saturday is your reloading time.

As stated above, the 1050 shines setup as one cartridge, since caliber changes are expensive and time consuming. Then again buying another $1600 press doesn't seem like it's a worthwhile investment when a caliber change kit is $200-odd and a half hour's time. Doing so is really only worth it if you have the money to burn or are doing it as a reloading business where downtime is a burden and a half hour to 45 minutes is money in the garbage.

aethyr
10-22-2009, 11:08 AM
If you load over 1500 a month of a SINGLE cartridge, I would dedicate a 1050 to it.
Under 1000 a month of a SINGLE cartridge and I would swap setups around on a shared 650.
Everyone's tolerance for work is different but most people would probably fall somewhere between those two levels.
The presence of crimped primer pockets can DRASTICALLY lower the pain threshold to make someone want a 1050 for only 300 rounds per month.

Can you elaborate on the crimped primer pockets issue? How often does it occur and can you buy a separate tool to efficiently deal with it?

freonr22
10-22-2009, 11:13 AM
in Military brass and some others, (lake City, Federal and i am sure more) also brass from the Prison system I have found. and yes you can buy a Dillon Super swager for $100

RaymondMillbrae
10-23-2009, 5:37 AM
I've been shooting for mucho many years. I try to shoot 2 times a week, and blow off around 400 rounds at a pop. (This is not counting our summer mountain trips that can almost double the rounds on a warm weekend).

Recently I have found USPSA Pistol Matches (and 3-gunning), and am gearing up to go in that direction.

I have had a Dillon XL650 for around 14 years now.

When I first purchased my XL650, I had similar questions. But life has taught me to always buy a little more than you need, (without going overboard), and you will not have to worry about out-growing it.

The XL650 was a great investment, and it is still going strong.

I have been reloading for .45 ACP, .357 mag, and 10mm for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time. And recently I have set myself up for .223 black rifle loads.

What I really like about the XL650, is the ease of changing-out the components to be able to load for various cartridges. (I have a different toolheads for each of the 4 calibers I load for).

Something that I have not heard mentioned is the SPACE SAVINGS that the XL650 will give you. You do not have to worry about filling up a giant bench full of reloading presses for your different calibers. Just place your XL650 in a comfortable place, and set the different toolheads nearby.

Personally, I do my reloading in a relaxed, 2-day, process. (Unless it is a spontaneous decision to shoot a match on a weekend, it's Friday afternoon, and I have no bullets on hand). I will usually come home from the range/match, etc...and drop all the collected brass into a SHELL SORTER (http://www.shellsorter.com/). (I usually pick-up specific caliber brass after shooting, but you can never be too sure). This takes me a few minutes, and I will also peek at the condition of the brass at this time. Then I dump it into a vibratory tumbler, and leave it there for a few hours...or overnight if I am tired and fall asleep. When it is done, it goes into a plastic bucket, until I am ready to actually reload. (Which may be THEN...or a few days later).

Then when I am ready to reload, I dump the cleaned brass into a large bowl, and do my "salad tossing technique" to lube all the brass. It usually takes me a whole 10 minutes for up to 2000 rounds of brass. (Ask me if'n you're interested, and I'll explain it). Then it gets dumped into the casefeeder, and the reloading comenses.

I can knock-out a decent 900 rounds of tight-tolerance bullets in about an hour of press time. This is taking my time, being consistent, and ensuring the press does not get jarred to give inconsistent powder charges.

What takes the most time is tumbling them one last time after they are done to remove the lube. (For pistol bullets). My LYMAN PRO MAGNUM (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=910617&utm_source=reloading_LymanTurboTumbler&utm_medium=category0909) can only handle a certain amount of bullets at a time. So with 2000 rounds, I usually have to divide it into 3 or 4 loads - of 20 minutes each. (Don't tumble too long to remove the lube, or you take the chance of the powder breaking down and changing it's properties).

It's kinda like drying clothes, in that you have to wait on the first load to finish before you add the next load.

Then, when the first load gets removed, the second load goes into the vibratory tumbler.

I will then get the first load of finished bullets, place them bullet down into an MTM plastic case, and I give the primers a solid once-over with my fingertips. This is where I usually catch a fudged primer. (Inserted upside-down, sideways, crunched, missing, etc...).

Wa-La...done.

When you are first shopping for a press, you are looking at all these incredible numbers on the press websites, and are probably trying to convince yourself (and your spouse) that you will be pumping-out these fantasy huge numbers of finished bullets in a certain time period. But the fact is that unless you are a pro shooter (or a fanatic), you will not really blow-off the amount of rounds you can produce with an excellent progressive press. Where these presses really shine is in the convenience, and the time saved.

Once I am finally loading on the Dillon press, I can finish 2000 rounds in around 2 hours 45-minutes (including tumbling time to remove the lube), and then kick back with the wifey for the rest of the night, snuggling. My bullets finished, packed in their MTM plastic cases, and stored in the safe.

But remember, this is only after the bullets have been prepped and the reloading has started. You ultimately need to sort, clean, lube, reload, re-vibrate (to remove the lube on pistol rounds after they come off the press), and recheck for fudged rounds - before you have a finished bullet. So the actual bullet-making time is much longer. When they say "800 to 1000 rounds per hour"...they are only talking about actual press time, and not prep time. And if you are loading for rifle...well...you can also add "case prep time" before it actually goes into the press itself. (Annealing, swaging, trimming, lubing, headspace & timing, etc...). Which is a whole other story.

As you learn and safely experiment with different loads, the satisfaction of having custom-made bullets BUILT TO YOUR OWN SPECIFICATIONS is an awesome feeling. It is not the amount of time it took to make the bullets that was important (you shouldn't hurry through anything), nor the massive amounts of bullets you created in a short amount of time...but the finished product that was produced after all the steps were properly taken. It is a good pride to take in yourself.

I remember someone telling me years ago, "Reloading does not save you money. Because you will still spend the same amount of money...but shoot more".

No truer words have passed by this shooters ears!!

Get a solid progressive reloader, get a good handle of what it is capable of dong, and never look back.

For me...it was the Dillon XL650. (I have the HORNADY 366 AUTO (https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=bb522fc8baebdafe024f8dac3603da9b&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=905186f9f77fca6d19b489eb60dd8509)for my shotshell reloader).

Bottom line...get a little more than you need, and drive on! Forget all the fantasy numbers that you THINK you will be producing at a sitting. Get something that will pump out a decent number of rounds, give you great finished rounds, and that has great customer support. You will be a happy camper in the long run. (You can thank me later). ;)

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Boy...I can ramble, huh?

Lancear15
10-23-2009, 9:28 AM
If you could only have one reloading manual what would it be? Would you recommend that same book for a beginner? If not what book should a noob reloader buy?

Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice BTW.

qtrxist
10-23-2009, 10:41 AM
i think the key is you should never have just a single book for a reloading manual. thats me. i bought Lyman and Speer and read the first few chapters about reloading. it helps. because one principle can be explained in so many ways, and for one book its may not be explained as easy..

and to the OP. im a noob reloader too, i went with XL650. why not 1050? too expensive, twice the price. im shooting right around 1500 rounds a month, so the XL650 is plenty enough.

BUT if you really want the 1050, then by all means go for it.

ill break down the advantage of 650 over 1050 IF YOU SHOOT 2000 ROUNDS or less PER MONTH.
1.with the half the price of the 650, you have more money to spend on primers, powder, bullets, and brass (if you dont want to pick-up).
2.its cheaper to convert caliber, say you do .40 then to 9mm, really easy.
3.smaller space
4.you get the NO BS warranty

1050 over the 650
-well it is rated to do more than 1000rph, but if your a noob like me, you want to make sure every station is right then this will significantly slow that 1000rph.

so bottom line is if you can afford it. then buy it. just take in consideration that your press is just a part of your reloading hobby. you will spend more on components.

my 2 cents. hope it helped.

Lancear15
10-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Another question, I have a lot of brass saved up.(no idea how much but a few large 50 cal. ammo cans worth) I would like to prep this brass for future reloading. I have 9mm, .40, .45, .38spl, 357mag, 5.56, and .300RUM. What would be the best tumbler I can buy that will handle this variety of brass sizes, what other items should I buy, IE trimmer, media separator, crimped primer pocket tool...etc.

I would like to start purchasing every tool I will need to completely prepare all my brass for reloading in a progressive. I want to buy the best and most efficient equipment available, as I plan on using this stuff for the rest of my life.

Thanks in advance.

freakshow10mm
10-23-2009, 11:52 AM
ABCs of Reloading will answer most questions about handloading.

Most any tumbler will work. I have a couple of cement mixers here for our brass and ammo tumbling.

ar15barrels
10-23-2009, 12:37 PM
1050 over the 650
-well it is rated to do more than 1000rph, but if your a noob like me, you want to make sure every station is right then this will significantly slow that 1000rph.

The difference is not so much the small difference in rounds per hour to LOAD, but for the whole process from fired brass on the ground to loaded ammo in the ammo can.
The 650 requires you to manually fix crimped primer pockets.
The 1050 does it for you.
That alone makes a significant difference in brass prep/inspection that has to occur BEFORE you ever put brass in the casefeeder.

Lancear15
10-23-2009, 12:56 PM
The difference is not so much the small difference in rounds per hour to LOAD, but for the whole process from fired brass on the ground to loaded ammo in the ammo can.
The 650 requires you to manually fix crimped primer pockets.
The 1050 does it for you.
That alone makes a significant difference in brass prep/inspection that has to occur BEFORE you ever put brass in the casefeeder.

Randall,

I would really appreciate your opinion on my questions in post #59.

Thanks,

Lance

ar15barrels
10-23-2009, 1:14 PM
Another question, I have a lot of brass saved up.(no idea how much but a few large 50 cal. ammo cans worth) I would like to prep this brass for future reloading. I have 9mm, .40, .45, .38spl, 357mag, 5.56, and .300RUM. What would be the best tumbler I can buy that will handle this variety of brass sizes, what other items should I buy, IE trimmer, media separator, crimped primer pocket tool...etc.

I would like to start purchasing every tool I will need to completely prepare all my brass for reloading in a progressive. I want to buy the best and most efficient equipment available, as I plan on using this stuff for the rest of my life.

Thanks in advance.

First off, you DON'T have a lot of brass saved up.
You only have a little brass saved up.
If you had a lot, you would have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of EACH cartridge.

Dillon makes the best tumblers.
For as little brass as you have, get the small or the medium one.
If you think you will load in much larger volumes later, just pop for the big one right away.
At least you won't outgrow the smaller one and the price is not that much different up front.

Get the dillon media seperator according to the size of tumbler you get.

9mm, .40, .45, .38spl and 357mag won't require trimming so you just sort them by cartridge type, tumble clean and start loading.

5.56, and .300RUM will need trimming.
You want to size before you trim and you want to tumble before you lube and size.
You won't be able to size or trim without a press.

I'll assume that you shoot a lot of 5.56 and very little 300 ultramag.
You can use a hand trimmer for the 300 ultra.
You may want to look at power trimmers for the 223, either Dillon which sizes and trims at once, or Giraud which trims and chamfers at once.
Read my tacked thread about bulk brass processing for more details on choosing your method.

Lancear15
10-23-2009, 1:57 PM
First off, you DON'T have a lot of brass saved up.
You only have a little brass saved up.
If you had a lot, you would have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of EACH cartridge.

^ Elitist.







J/k thanks for the info. I never look at stickies, I guess I should start, good stuff.

cornflake
10-23-2009, 2:12 PM
First off, you DON'T have a lot of brass saved up.
You only have a little brass saved up.
If you had a lot, you would have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of EACH cartridge.


Talking about abrasive personality!!!

ar15barrels
10-23-2009, 2:40 PM
Talking about abrasive personality!!!

http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/17/grinding-pipe_3279.jpg

freonr22
10-23-2009, 2:44 PM
HA!

freonr22
11-06-2009, 7:00 PM
So did you make a press decision?

freakshow10mm
11-06-2009, 9:24 PM
First off, you DON'T have a lot of brass saved up.
You only have a little brass saved up.
If you had a lot, you would have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of EACH cartridge.

Yeah, those amateurs with their 5 gallon buckets.:rolleyes:

That's all .223 brass in those tubs. 8K in the open one and 12K in each in the second pair. Also have 2 55gallon drums full of dirty .223 brass to polish, inspect, and load. Amateurs, when will they learn to know their place? 5 gallon buckets are for posers. :confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Freakshow%20Mfg/PB040017.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Freakshow%20Mfg/PB040018.jpg

Jonathan Doe
11-06-2009, 9:54 PM
1050 is a high volumn machine, and if you don't shoot so much, say 1,000 - 1,500 per month, 550B would be good enough. I used 550B and can load enough for my handgun loads.

joelogic
11-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Yeah, those amateurs with their 5 gallon buckets.:rolleyes:


Give us a break, you do it commercially. ;)

I have about 6 5 gal buckets of brass. But I always hoard when I can.

jwest
11-06-2009, 10:20 PM
I'm sure someone has already said this but the 1050 is more for commercial shops and doesn't come with the lifetime no 'B.S.' warranty. Warranty is standard commercial - 1 year. Makes sense due to wear and tear - and if your making and selling ammo - more than pays for itself anyway and you can write it off on the books.

freakshow10mm
11-06-2009, 10:27 PM
Give us a break, you do it commercially. ;)

I have about 6 5 gal buckets of brass. But I always hoard when I can.
AR15barrels acted in a condescending manner like usual. I was returning the favor.

ar15barrels
11-06-2009, 10:29 PM
AR15barrels acted in a condescending manner like usual. I was returning the favor.

I necer said a 5 gallon bucket was a lot.
I simply said you would have to have "at least" a 5 gallon bucket.
I have several 5 gallon buckets of both 9mm and 223 which are my only high volume cartridges.

freakshow10mm
11-06-2009, 10:38 PM
I necer said a 5 gallon bucket was a lot.
Really?

If you had a lot, you would have at least a 5 gallon bucket full of EACH cartridge.

That statement from you indicates a 5 gallon bucket or more is a lot. The 5 gallon bucket being the threshold.

ar15barrels
11-06-2009, 10:53 PM
That statement from you indicates a 5 gallon bucket or more is a lot. The 5 gallon bucket being the threshold.

You can read into it however you want.

A 5 gallon bucket is not a lot.
You would have to have more than 5 gallons to have a lot.

RaymondMillbrae
11-07-2009, 1:19 AM
Words are useless without pictures to back them up.

Put em up...or shu_ up. Lest you become exposed as a fraud.

I wanna see 5-gall pails full of ammo. Not part full, but fully full.

Below is about 900 rounds from a recent reload of mine. But then again, I never claimed to have a ga-ba-zilion rounds in a bucket.

In Christ: Raymond

http://x3a.xanga.com/e1ff51f272130258163404/b205493328.jpg

ar15barrels
11-07-2009, 8:39 AM
Words are useless without pictures to back them up.

Put em up...or shu_ up. Lest you become exposed as a fraud.

I wanna see 5-gall pails full of ammo. Not part full, but fully full.

Below is about 900 rounds from a recent reload of mine. But then again, I never claimed to have a ga-ba-zilion rounds in a bucket.

In Christ: Raymond

http://x3a.xanga.com/e1ff51f272130258163404/b205493328.jpg

I never have full 5 gallon pails of loaded ammo around.
I simply load for each match, usually the night before the match.

aethyr
11-07-2009, 9:57 PM
So did you make a press decision?

I'm actually leaning towards the Hornady LnL AP. Progressive, same warranty, easier to change calibers and better design/usability in some areas. I forget the link, but someone wrote a detailed comparison between the LNL and the 650 and in the end the LNL looked like a better press.

I think what I really need to do is try out both presses and see which of each press' weaknesses bother me the most and which I can live with.

ar15barrels
11-08-2009, 12:02 AM
I think what I really need to do is try out both presses and see which of each press' weaknesses bother me the most and which I can live with.

I think the big difference between the hornady and the dillon will be ergonomics.
I saw a video of a guy running a hornady and he had to place the bullet and the brass on the left side of the press.
Dillons are all optimized so you place the bullet on one side of the press and the brass on the other.
That's the most efficient way to work.

grywlfbg
11-09-2009, 12:43 PM
To add my $0.02 I would say if you can afford it, skip the 550 and go right to the 650. IMO, the 650 is actually SAFER for a new reloader because you can't double-charge if you forget to rotate the shell-plate.

I bought a 650 w/ casefeeder as my first press and have been very happy w/ it.

aethyr
11-09-2009, 12:55 PM
I think the big difference between the hornady and the dillon will be ergonomics.
I saw a video of a guy running a hornady and he had to place the bullet and the brass on the left side of the press.
Dillons are all optimized so you place the bullet on one side of the press and the brass on the other.
That's the most efficient way to work.

Hmmm. Interesting. I will, however be getting a case feeder so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue.. Are there other ergos that I should be aware of?

Safety is big concern - if I ever get a primer explosion, the wifey might pull the plug on the whole operation.

ar15barrels
11-09-2009, 1:04 PM
Hmmm. Interesting. I will, however be getting a case feeder so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue.. Are there other ergos that I should be aware of?

Safety is big concern - if I ever get a primer explosion, the wifey might pull the plug on the whole operation.

With the difference in price of the casefeeders, the dillon is not nearly as much more money and it will have the option of a powder check station that rings a buzzer if the powder charge is out-of-tolerance.
The dillon primer system was designed to safely contain primer explosions of a full tube of primers.

super1050
11-12-2009, 7:56 AM
i started re-loading a year ago and bought a super 1050, it a great machine, and after reading all the documentation, i was able to start re-loading, also, Dillion has a tech support phone number and those guys will answer any and all questions as to the how to's with instruction and understanding, If you can afford it then buy it, you won't be sorry, though just to mention,the only cost to starting re-loading is not just the press, you also have to buy a brass polisher, a good scale ( i recomend dillions D-Terminator Electronic) a nice set of calipers, and any additional dies, toolheads, and quick change kits to reload additional calibers, the dillion does come with one caliber of your choice already set up on the tool head by the factory,

Rwnielsen
11-20-2009, 6:41 AM
That's what us 650 owners do for rifle calibers. We have 2 tool heads setup.
Edit: *some 650 owners do*. This is the most efficient way. However some are strapped for cash and go with the 1 toolhead method and remove that sizing die in and out.


Toolhead 1 does the sizing/depriming
Toolhead 2 does the reloading


That's a handy tip, thanks :D