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rp55
10-18-2009, 11:14 PM
Reported out of St. Paul, MN but took place in Hudson, WI right across the river on I-94

Tea Party With Guns Held in Hudson (http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1197061.shtml?cat=1)

Hundreds of armed people filled a Hudson park Saturday afternoon as part of an anti-tax and pro-second amendment rally.

"It's our right to carry guns and I think everyone needs to know," said a gun rally supporter.

Openly carrying a firearm is legal in Wisconsin, in fact the only legal way to have a firearm there is to openly display it, but it is rare to see so many people doing so at once.

Not everyone near the tea party was keen on the idea of so many people carrying guns. "I thought not in my backyard. I didn't like the idea and i still don't like the idea," said Greg Leaf, a gun rally opposer.

Some came to the park hoping to change laws. "I'm here today to support hopefully getting a conceal and carry permit in Wisconsin," said Spc. Alex Getty.

A few came hoping to change minds. "I have people who call me baby killers because they assume I voted for Obama, which I did, but I don't think that makes me a baby killer," said Greg Leaf.

Different viewpoints were plentiful, but the event remained peaceful and supporters of both sides on gun control issues agreed to disagree.

BigDogatPlay
10-18-2009, 11:21 PM
And this is why, IMO, an event like this is a bad idea. Good on the OC supporters for trying, but it's an almost no win situation for us.

nicki
10-18-2009, 11:30 PM
I like the lady who said "why are you people carrying guns".

Obviously this lady forgot American history, say from 1770 thru 1791.

It is obvious that "open carry" makes a "political statement". Eventually we may have a day where we will be doing the same here in California with the blessing of the "right people".

I thought the news coverage wasn't too bad, our side could have been better, but that will come with time.

The TEA parties are growing, if the leadership of the TEA Parties can keep control of their people at their rallies, they would be powerful allies.

I think the TEA party rallies should be targeted for Calguns outreach.

Many people who go to gun shows do so to buy guns and gear, not to get politically involved.

People who show up at TEA Parties are there because they are politically involved.

Nicki

BigDogatPlay
10-18-2009, 11:41 PM
Tea parties... great idea. The people need to take back control of their government.

Synergy
10-18-2009, 11:48 PM
I guess if it was a police rally and a bunch of officers were in uniform with their sidearm it would have been ok to the public. Just shows how ill informed the majority are!

p.s. That was not an attempt to start a cop bashing topic, just a comparison to the idiotic sheeple.

wildhawker
10-18-2009, 11:51 PM
There is no benefit to either movement by mixing the issues of 2A and taxes, and in a state like California such an event as occured in MN would be spun entirely against us.

JDoe
10-19-2009, 8:24 AM
0287gcVCCXA

yellowfin
10-19-2009, 9:07 AM
In WI open carry isn't just political, it is in fact the only way they can have the best tool for defense of life and property available to them. It astounds me as to how so simple a point doesn't reach some people here, apparently. "It's a bad idea" "This won't end well" "They'll turn it against us"...good grief, Chicken Littles.

dustoff31
10-19-2009, 10:07 AM
In WI open carry isn't just political, it is in fact the only way they can have the best tool for defense of life and property available to them. It astounds me as to how so simple a point doesn't reach some people here, apparently. "It's a bad idea" "This won't end well" "They'll turn it against us"...good grief, Chicken Littles.

There is no doubt that antis will try spin this, just as they do with anything involving guns.

I think a lot of the initial reaction here is simply due to years of mental conditioning.

OC in WI is perfectly legal. So for those asking, why would it not end well? In fact, it appears that it did end rather well.

Different viewpoints were plentiful, but the event remained peaceful and supporters of both sides on gun control issues agreed to disagree.

Werewolf1021
10-19-2009, 10:34 AM
But but but the Chiiiiiiiiiiiillllldren!

Flopper
10-19-2009, 10:38 AM
Although OC is a bad idea in CA right now, OC in WI is the avenue by which they will obtain CCW.

bulgron
10-19-2009, 10:42 AM
Although OC is a bad idea in CA right now, OC in WI is the avenue by which they will obtain CCW.

'right now' being the operative phrase.

And in WI, OC doesn't always end well. There's been plenty of drama around OC in Milwaukee. So much so, in fact, that I'm half expecting the WI supreme court to impose shall-issue CCW on the state by court decree.

wildhawker
10-19-2009, 11:03 AM
My comments were specifically addressed in the context of a California audience.

Yellowfin, it is asinine to argue that the WI event had anything to do with group self-defense. Guns are being used as political props to reinforce a message, and most Americans "get" the implication.

Do that here and watch the backlash.

For someone 3,000 miles away to be egging on dangerous and politically foolish behavior in California is fascinating to me.

In WI open carry isn't just political, it is in fact the only way they can have the best tool for defense of life and property available to them. It astounds me as to how so simple a point doesn't reach some people here, apparently. "It's a bad idea" "This won't end well" "They'll turn it against us"...good grief, Chicken Littles.

ETA: I'm waiting for the thousands of pro-gun converts to line up at the doors of the Hudson, WI NRA office. Keep me posted when we get word of all the new members...

wash
10-19-2009, 11:28 AM
When the tide changes we're going to have one hell of a UOC event at the Alameda County Fairgrounds.

We've got to start planning for that.

510shooter510
10-19-2009, 11:46 AM
At first I thought, "oh no, the public will see a bunch of crazies marching through a park with rifles and wish a ban on guns!" But after seeing the method with which these people rallied and the overall appearance of this event, I am proud of what these people are doing and wish them all the luck in the world.

ilbob
10-19-2009, 11:49 AM
A few came hoping to change minds. "I have people who call me baby killers because they assume I voted for Obama, which I did, but I don't think that makes me a baby killer," said Greg Leaf.

At the very least it makes you an accessory.

MolonLabe2008
10-19-2009, 12:04 PM
All of those law abiding citizens exercising their “right to keep and bear arms” by openly carrying while peaceably assembling and not one gun related incident.

Hmmmm. Interesting.

MolonLabe2008
10-19-2009, 12:07 PM
And this is why, IMO, an event like this is a bad idea. Good on the OC supporters for trying, but it's an almost no win situation for us.

And we also have the right to free speech, but according to your logic we should just shut up.

MolonLabe2008
10-19-2009, 12:10 PM
In WI open carry isn't just political, it is in fact the only way they can have the best tool for defense of life and property available to them. It astounds me as to how so simple a point doesn't reach some people here, apparently. "It's a bad idea" "This won't end well" "They'll turn it against us"...good grief, Chicken Littles.

This^

MolonLabe2008
10-19-2009, 12:14 PM
There is no doubt that antis will try spin this, just as they do with anything involving guns.

I think a lot of the initial reaction here is simply due to years of mental conditioning.

OC in WI is perfectly legal. So for those asking, why would it not end well? In fact, it appears that it did end rather well.

Sadly, "mental conditioning" affects many law abiding gun owners in California.

I'm 45 and was born in California, but my mindset is that of someone living in a free state.

BigDogatPlay
10-19-2009, 5:10 PM
And we also have the right to free speech, but according to your logic we should just shut up.

Not what I said or thought at all, and thank you for putting words in my mouth.

We can not win in the court of public opinion... not in California anyway. Not yet anyway.That is what I am talking about. There has to be one heckuva big sea change in the attitudes of a majority of Californians, and the media that feeds them bilge by the gallon, before this type of peaceful assembly is going to be acceptable to the general public here.

Things are changing, to be sure, but it may take years or even decades for that to happen. I'm of the opinion that it's better to lay low and continue to work for a better future than it is to make overt statements that can easily be spun into crap to feed the masses and keep those masses against us.

Wisconsin, specifically the University of Wisconsin, Madison (UMAD to it's students, friends and alumni) is pretty much the birthplace of the Political Correctness movement. I am impressed that these folks were able to stage their event, but between the small crowd and the rogering they seem to be getting in the media I am left to wonder if it was worth it.

M. Sage
10-19-2009, 5:19 PM
With support for gun control clocking in at all-time lows, is it any surprise that people opposed to higher taxation and more government control would try and provoke politicians in DC into doing something dumb like attempting a gun ban?

It's just a smart political move if you ask me, and we could kill two birds with one stone by using this tactic.

Bad idea in CA, though. You don't have nearly enough support.

7x57
10-19-2009, 5:25 PM
The TEA parties are growing, if the leadership of the TEA Parties can keep control of their people at their rallies, they would be powerful allies.


Fine, but the issues should be kept separate. Economics--fine, have a Tea Party. WI concealed carry--if the politics are right (i.e. more like Ohio than California), fine, OC .50 BMGs if you want.

But not at the same event. It's handing ammo to the other side.

Come to think of it, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying it, this was a problem with the Ron Paul campaign--too many issues at once.

I have a saying, not because I'm good at following it but precisely because I'm not: "You should only believe one wacky thing." What it means is that you might convince someone to believe something that conflicts with their world view. But if you try to convince them of a second, you not only will fail on that one but on the first as well. Too much world-view conflict and the pressure to dismiss you as a crackpot becomes too great.


I think the TEA party rallies should be targeted for Calguns outreach.


Interesting idea.

Dustin

M. Sage
10-19-2009, 5:27 PM
Hmm, that guy was an open Obama supporter at the rally?

It wasn't a Tea Party. It was a Tea Party-style open carry rally.