PDA

View Full Version : AR 15 Torture Test?


sspen003
10-18-2009, 7:04 PM
Has anyone ever put their AR-15 through a torture test? Ever seen anybody do it? I have been looking online but I have not really found anything that seems realistic.

Plisk
10-18-2009, 7:08 PM
Some have on here, I would love to do one for mine. But I cant afford it lol.

Nxd9ar15xcrL
10-18-2009, 7:12 PM
hmmmmm, yeah.

The Vietnam War
The Gulf War
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Afghanistan

As for the results? The reviews are mixed.

sspen003
10-18-2009, 7:28 PM
hmmmmm, yeah.

The Vietnam War
The Gulf War
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Afghanistan

As for the results? The reviews are mixed.

Oh man you got me

So its clarified I am referring to private sector tests with civilian rifles. Kinda like the Glock torture tests.

Noobert
10-18-2009, 7:30 PM
Oh man you got me

So its clarified I am referring to private sector tests with civilian rifles. Kinda like the Glock torture tests.

See, no one wants to ruin their AR incase something happens. Now for the glock, everyone does torture tests because it was made for the trash can anyways:43:

Brian_L
10-18-2009, 7:32 PM
Nothing can beat the GLOCK torture test. Are there any AK torture tests?

slappomatt
10-18-2009, 7:33 PM
See, no one wants to ruin their AR incase something happens. Now for the glock, everyone does torture tests because it was made for the trash can anyways:43:

lol. I would have to agree.

as for torture tests you could look into the HK 416 testing. they also tested standard ar15's along with their piston AR. Its probably not the most scientific... but hey they are German :chris:

sspen003
10-18-2009, 7:34 PM
See, no one wants to ruin their AR incase something happens. Now for the glock, everyone does torture tests because it was made for the trash can anyways:43:

Hahahahahaha... You dont miss a beat. Nice signature

sspen003
10-18-2009, 7:38 PM
lol. I would have to agree.

as for torture tests you could look into the HK 416 testing. they also tested standard ar15's along with their piston AR. Its probably not the most scientific... but hey they are German :chris:

Yeah its about the closest thing I can find right now. Not to mention, their tests are pretty biased.

I am thinking about doing this with my AR. Its going to be hard to get a red-hot barrel here in Cali though....but we have alot of sand

The only thing I wouldnt do is the water test... I dont want a face full of shrapnel

Sheepdog1968
10-18-2009, 7:42 PM
Most civilian ARs aren't made to milspec. My guess is most wouldn't meet milspec conditions. That's probably why we don't see torture tests on them.

Seesm
10-18-2009, 8:21 PM
just for giggles...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232868

Josh3239
10-18-2009, 8:38 PM
I would love to torture test mine. Dirt can be cleaned off and I can remove weak points and test what other people claim. A friend and I are always talking about taking our rifles out to BLM land in AZ and doing a torture test on 'em but he is always busy with school. I would love to do it, though it seems a carbine course in a state with lots of mud would be a just as good of a way to gauge your rifle.

sspen003
10-18-2009, 8:50 PM
I would love to torture test mine. Dirt can be cleaned off and I can remove weak points and test what other people claim. A friend and I are always talking about taking our rifles out to BLM land in AZ and doing a torture test on 'em but he is always busy with school. I would love to do it, though it seems a carbine course in a state with lots of mud would be a just as good of a way to gauge your rifle.

Where you at? Lets get it done

technique
10-18-2009, 8:53 PM
Why don't we put some criteria together...what kind of tests should be done?

sspen003
10-18-2009, 9:00 PM
Deff some sand tests..with the dust cover OPEN.

We cant do full auto...maybe prebans on a featureless build

Shooting large amounts of Wolf ammo to show it can be done

No cleaning for thousands of rounds

All of this should be done with a typical AR rifle..ie Stag, DPMS, RRA.. stuff like that

johnthomas
10-18-2009, 9:12 PM
My Colt M-16 in basic had already been in the system for about 2 years before I got it. You can't torture it any worse that running a gun thru several cycles of kid's that never shot a gun and didn't know how to treat them right.

sspen003
10-18-2009, 9:14 PM
My Colt M-16 in basic had already been in the system for about 2 years before I got it. You can't torture it any worse that running a gun thru several cycles of kid's that never shot a gun and didn't know how to treat them right.

+1 on that. I heard the ones they issue at OCS are well taken care of though and the SI's are very meticulous about them being clean

Ross
10-18-2009, 9:24 PM
I put mine in the safe and didn't shoot it for a few months.

Talk about torture.


But we're good now. A little tickling with my finger and she'll be hot in a matter of seconds.

technique
10-18-2009, 9:28 PM
Deff some sand tests..with the dust cover OPEN.



So maybe throw some dirt in an open bolt, shake it off, insert mag, close bolt and fire?

We cant do full auto...maybe prebans on a featureless build

I have a full featured rifle..

Shooting large amounts of Wolf ammo to show it can be done

No cleaning for thousands of rounds

Done that already..:cool:

All of this should be done with a typical AR rifle..ie Stag, DPMS, RRA.. stuff like that

Don't own any of those...


I can do the dirt test, possibly Thursday or Friday with wolf...I have 60 or so rounds of wolf...100 or so S&B SS109, and some random brass to donate to the cause...

Lets see if we can figure out exactly what can be done safely to do an in the upper dirt test....

sspen003
10-18-2009, 9:32 PM
I can do the dirt test, possibly Thursday or Friday with wolf...I have 60 or so rounds of wolf...100 or so S&B SS109, and some random brass to donate to the cause...

Lets see if we can figure out exactly what can be done safely to do an in the upper dirt test....

Excellent. God I hate California. Your lucky your not here.

I think I am going to do some later this week when I go to the range

cfm117
10-18-2009, 10:15 PM
Well I guess the M4's at that last Taliban assault failed the test. I suppose doing a 13 magazine ammo dump laying down suppressive fire would be a pretty legit test. How many of our rifles do you think could stand up to that?

KAVEMAN762
10-18-2009, 10:19 PM
Deff some sand tests..with the dust cover OPEN.

We cant do full auto...maybe prebans on a featureless build

Shooting large amounts of Wolf ammo to show it can be done

No cleaning for thousands of rounds


All of this should be done with a typical AR rifle..ie Stag, DPMS, RRA.. stuff like that


Ive been doing this to one of my stags and one LMT, about 3300 rounds of remington 55 grain through the stag no cleaning. The bolt is pretty crudded up but still seats. The inside of the upper reciever is also a little cruddy. The stag i treated the bolt carrier group and the whole inside of the upper reciever with this dry film graphite lubricant (now its baked on from use) and it doesnt get sticky like my non treated LMT at 2200 or so rounds. The crud actually seems to come off the parts without me physically touching it, Ive found a bunch in my magazines and in the lower. A few times I have to hit the forward assist on my LMT for the bolt to fully go forward. I havent oiled either one yet, so they are ran dry. Waiting for my camera so I can post pictures of my LMT which looks way dirtier than my treated stag 2h. I have another stag upper 2h that has about 700 rounds through it, but cleaned all the time and lubed and it looks brand new. The old stag seems to have smaller groupings than my new 2h for a beat to hell upper which is confusing.


picture:
00392 is at 3000 rounds
00393 is at 3000 rounds showing front of bolt and lugs
00143 is my newer 2h upper/bcg at 700 rounds with remington ammo looks good

Josh3239
10-18-2009, 10:21 PM
Where you at? Lets get it done

Ventura county, 'bout an hour northwest of LA. I just transferred my handguards, bolt, and possibly my buttstock to a franken/hobby gun I have so my "primary" is a bit naked. I am definetly getting a TRX Extreme HG and will probably get a Fail Zero bolt. What I am really curious is to see is how my side charger uppers holds up.

I got a mixture of dirt from firing a couple hundred rounds through my rifle, Breakfree CLP, and grease on my BCG. I don't want to clean it, in fact I want to see how long it lasts without being cleaned (at the rate I am shooting it I doubt it'll ever need cleaning), but I would really like to get the CLP and grease out because that *#@! is a dirt magnet and that stuff mixed together doesn't sound good. I'd prefer to try the TW25B I have or pick up some SLIP2000 EWL.

So maybe throw some dirt in an open bolt, shake it off, insert mag, close bolt and fire?


Now that is what I was thinking of. Maybe drop a loaded mag into the dirt and then insert it. Maybe dropping some water into the sand following the dust test.

five.five-six
10-18-2009, 10:23 PM
Nothing can beat the GLOCK torture test. Are there any AK torture tests?

this looks like torture

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/slik556/glock_girl.jpg

Josh3239
10-18-2009, 10:23 PM
Ive been doing this to one of my stags and one LMT, about 3300 rounds of remington 55 grain through the stag no cleaning. The bolt is pretty crudded up but still seats. The inside of the upper reciever is also a little cruddy. The stag i treated the bolt carrier group and the whole inside of the upper reciever with this dry film graphite lubricant (now its baked on from use) and it doesnt get sticky like my non treated LMT at 2200 or so rounds. The crud actually seems to come off the parts without me physically touching it, Ive found a bunch in my magazines and in the lower. A few times I have to hit the forward assist on my LMT for the bolt to fully go forward. I havent oiled either one yet, so they are ran dry. Waiting for my camera so I can post pictures of my LMT which looks way dirtier than my treated stag 2h. I have another stag upper 2h that has about 700 rounds through it, but cleaned all the time and lubed and it looks brand new. The old stag seems to have smaller groupings than my new 2h for a beat to hell upper which is confusing.


picture:
00392 is at 3000 rounds
00393 is at 3000 rounds showing front of bolt and lugs
00143 is my newer 2h upper/bcg at 700 rounds with remington ammo looks good

Very neat! So that all just Remington 55gr huh? Nothing else?

technique
10-18-2009, 10:27 PM
this looks like torture

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/slik556/glock_girl.jpg

how in the world did she, let alone those glocks get in there? Those pants I mean:eek:

KAVEMAN762
10-18-2009, 10:30 PM
yeah, i want to try wolf, but I havent tried yet. I only have wolf 7.62 for my AK's. Remington is all they have at the walmart here ($9.00 a box), I have one case of some PMC stuff but Im saving those for... I have no idea, just to have i guess LOL. Ive used the dry film lubricant on all my handguns now that I see side by side what it does to my stag and LMT rifles. The bottle (which I'll take a picture of tomorrow) specifically states that it will not attract dirt like liquid lubricants. The crud seems to "flake" off if you jar or drop the rifle. I think the dry film stuff wont let the scum stick! but we'll see after another 3k or so rounds.

sspen003
10-18-2009, 10:35 PM
Thats awesome Kaveman. Great pics and keep me updated with your rifle.

I am trying to get my rifle to run wolf flawlessly. I have a failure to eject about 1/100 rounds.

I bought a new ejector package from Bravo Company, I am hoping this will fix the problem.

Will getting sand in the upper damage it? I dont want it damaging the metal

sspen003
10-18-2009, 10:37 PM
yeah, i want to try wolf, but I havent tried yet. I only have wolf 7.62 for my AK's. Remington is all they have at the walmart here ($9.00 a box), I have one case of some PMC stuff but Im saving those for... I have no idea, just to have i guess LOL. Ive used the dry film lubricant on all my handguns now that I see side by side what it does to my stag and LMT rifles. The bottle (which I'll take a picture of tomorrow) specifically states that it will not attract dirt like liquid lubricants. The crud seems to "flake" off if you jar or drop the rifle. I think the dry film stuff wont let the scum stick! but we'll see after another 3k or so rounds.

What is the stuff called? is it safe to use in a barrel?

KAVEMAN762
10-18-2009, 10:52 PM
This is the stuff right here. It will eventually rub away from friction places, but I still can see this coating on the inside rails were the carrier rides, and it still is on the inside and all over my carrier group and upper reciever after 3000 rounds. I just notice how the dirt bareley sticks to the rifle compared to my LMT thats not treated with this stuff. And when the crud turns hard, Ive seen chunks just fall out of the upper. I disassembled my upper and bcg and sprayed everything, all moving parts etc. I used a blow torch to slowly heat everything up afterwards, not sure if it helped LOL

Dry-Film Graphite Lubricant
DESCRIPTION
A fast-drying dry-film graphite lubricant which forms a conductive coating and lubricates up to 1000F.
FEATURES BENEFITS
Excellent extreme-temperature lubrication: provides excellent lubrication up to 1000F (538C).
Superior adhesion: Thermoplastic resins promote adhesion to all metals and most plastics.
Environment friendly: Advanced formula contains no ozone-depleting compounds.
Fast-drying film: Does not attract dust or other airborne particulates.
Versatility: Also effective as an anti-seize compound and release agent.
Electrical conductivity: Can be used to lubricate contact points where electrical conductivity must be maintained.

APPLICATIONS
Use for engine assembly and break-in, hydraulic pumps, conveyor systems, automotive and industrial gaskets, tumbler locks, oven, furnace, and kiln mechanisms, any application where an extreme temperature dry-film lubricant is required. And kavemans POS stag! LOL

SPECIFICATIONS
Physical Form . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... .Aerosol
DOT Shipping Label.......................None
Propellant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hydrocarbon
Shelf Life ....................................1 year minimum
Can Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .24 fl. oz.
Flammability .................................Not Flammable
Net Weight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..1 lb.2 oz.(510 g)
Shelf Life . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 year minimum
Storage Temperature.....................0F(-18C) to 120F (49C)



Not sure about useage in the barrel. I wouldnt try it. Otis has treatment for the barrel, similar to microlon. There is also a dry moly or something that can hold 100,000psi, but only 750 degrees and it replaces the graphite dry lube.
Im guessing if I ever use wolf, I will get jams and broken extractors LOL just kidding. If the rifle can handle any ammo made, from norinco to wolf to remington etc, then that right there is good enough for me. Most say wolf dont run good in AR's. That should say something already. But Im too pu$$$y to try wolf yet........

technique
10-18-2009, 10:56 PM
Kaveman, I have put *now* 12000+ through my LMT...I would say 8-9K of that was 62gr FMJ Wolf...you should be fine there.

sspen003
10-18-2009, 10:57 PM
This is the stuff right here. It will eventually rub away from friction places, but I still can see this coating on the inside rails were the carrier rides, and it still is on the inside and all over my carrier group and upper reciever after 3000 rounds. I just notice how the dirt bareley sticks to the rifle compared to my LMT thats not treated with this stuff. And when the crud turns hard, Ive seen chunks just fall out of the upper. I disassembled my upper and bcg and sprayed everything, all moving parts etc. I used a blow torch to slowly heat everything up afterwards, not sure if it helped LOL

Dry-Film Graphite Lubricant
DESCRIPTION
A fast-drying dry-film graphite lubricant which forms a conductive coating and lubricates up to 1000F.
FEATURES BENEFITS
Excellent extreme-temperature lubrication: provides excellent lubrication up to 1000F (538C).
Superior adhesion: Thermoplastic resins promote adhesion to all metals and most plastics.
Environment friendly: Advanced formula contains no ozone-depleting compounds.
Fast-drying film: Does not attract dust or other airborne particulates.
Versatility: Also effective as an anti-seize compound and release agent.
Electrical conductivity: Can be used to lubricate contact points where electrical conductivity must be maintained.

APPLICATIONS
Use for engine assembly and break-in, hydraulic pumps, conveyor systems, automotive and industrial gaskets, tumbler locks, oven, furnace, and kiln mechanisms, any application where an extreme temperature dry-film lubricant is required. And kavemans POS stag! LOL

SPECIFICATIONS
Physical Form . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... .Aerosol
DOT Shipping Label.......................None
Propellant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hydrocarbon
Shelf Life ....................................1 year minimum
Can Size . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .24 fl. oz.
Flammability .................................Not Flammable
Net Weight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..1 lb.2 oz.(510 g)
Shelf Life . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 year minimum
Storage Temperature.....................0F(-18C) to 120F (49C)



Not sure about useage in the barrel. I wouldnt try it. Otis has treatment for the barrel, similar to microlon. There is also a dry moly or something that can hold 100,000psi, but only 750 degrees and it replaces the graphite dry lube.
Im guessing if I ever use wolf, I will get jams and broken extractors LOL just kidding. If the rifle can handle any ammo made, from norinco to wolf to remington etc, then that right there is good enough for me. Most say wolf dont run good in AR's. That should say something already. But Im too pu$$$y to try wolf yet........


Take the dive and save money. Im trying to convert people. $115 for 500 rounds is nice.

Your gun will shoot it. The only thing I have heard about wolf is that to shoot it reliably extractors and springs in the bolt need to be replaced with high quality after market stuff.

Hopefully it is true

KAVEMAN762
10-18-2009, 11:06 PM
Kaveman, I have put *now* 12000+ through my LMT...I would say 8-9K of that was 62gr FMJ Wolf...you should be fine there.

Damn! good stuff man! Im gonna do it! Do they have them without that wierd laquer finish on the cases? Do those ever gum up from the heat after firing a lot? Thanks

Josh3239
10-18-2009, 11:14 PM
The only thing I have heard about wolf is that to shoot it reliably extractors and springs in the bolt need to be replaced with high quality after market stuff.

Wolf is pretty rought on extractors. The black insert and the 4 coil spring will last longer, but they will last longer if you are using brass.


Do they have them without that wierd laquer finish on the cases? Do those ever gum up from the heat after firing a lot? Thanks

I don't think they use the lacquered anymore. It is still really dirty and the steel case does seem to cause more build up of dirt which can result in stuck cases.

technique
10-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Damn! good stuff man! Im gonna do it! Do they have them without that wierd laquer finish on the cases? Do those ever gum up from the heat after firing a lot? Thanks

this is the stuff...I have never had ANY failures in this LMT at all, only induced failures for training...I guess I'm lucky. I use an LMT bolt and barrel. I used a cerro forge upper and built my gun. I pay attention to detail when doing so.

Even when I buy a factory, I strip it down and rebuild it myself. No one has quality control and attention to detail like the owner of the rifle.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/wolf-1.jpg

lokmeup
10-19-2009, 1:14 AM
10,000 Rounds Non-Stop Torture Test...

bHNvUPjIOzY

1,100 Rounds in 15 minutes Torture Test...

u5CQOvdYW6c