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View Full Version : How Much Ammo, Legally Stored?


Phil3
10-18-2009, 4:15 PM
Was wondering if there are any laws on how much ammunition one may store at a personal residence. I see no ordinances where I live, but maybe so in my county of Contra Costa, or is there a state law?

One could store 100,000 rounds of 45 ACP or 223 Remington in a 30" x 30" x 36" space. I have no need to store this much, but just wondering if there are limits.

Ding126
10-18-2009, 4:16 PM
The limit is in your wallet

someR1
10-18-2009, 4:23 PM
The limit is in your wallet

haha so damn true

forgiven
10-18-2009, 4:41 PM
You got that right

floogy
10-18-2009, 4:44 PM
+1 to that. Need to start reloading already.

Seesm
10-18-2009, 4:58 PM
1 billion rds.

striker3
10-18-2009, 5:10 PM
+1 to that. Need to start reloading already.

No limit on rounds, but I believe that there is a limit on how much powder you can store, is there not?

Lone_Gunman
10-18-2009, 5:19 PM
Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

zx10r203
10-18-2009, 5:20 PM
Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

That sounds like a plan!!!

mcsoupman
10-18-2009, 5:58 PM
Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

+1 to that!

tiko
10-18-2009, 6:03 PM
Yes, powder got a limit, and over a certain amount you got to store in a woodbox with spec thickness. If you buy a 8 lb keg from a dealer, it is OK with the original container.

ontargetrange
10-18-2009, 7:15 PM
A quick answer is what I went through with the wonderful county of Orange -- whatever the inspector says is OK ---

Some anal fireman/Marshall can declare a public hazard and then you have to prove it is not - good luck with that -

Store it dry
Store it WELL away from any fire source or possible source
KEEP it covered from any public view (nosey neighbors that would drop a dime on you)
Use with great joy and safety

paul0660
10-18-2009, 8:15 PM
Can you tell us more about your situation, ontargetrange? For instance, if it is declared a hazard, do they show up to remove it?

HowardW56
10-18-2009, 8:30 PM
5251. Storage of Explosive Materials.

(a) All explosive materials as defined in these orders, including industrial high explosives and any newly developed and unclassified explosives, shall be stored in the appropriate magazine as shown in Table EX-3. Magazines shall be constructed in conformity with the provisions of this Article.

(b) The following materials/devices shall be kept in their shipping containers until used:

(1) Explosive materials such as explosive power packs in the form of explosive cartridges or explosive-charged construction devices, explosive rivets, explosive bolts, explosive charges for driving pins or studs.

(2) Cartridges for explosives actuated power devices when in quantities of less than 50 pounds net weight of explosives.

(3) Stocks of small arms ammunition, propellant-actuated power cartridges, small arms ammunition primers in quantities of less than 750,000, and smokeless propellant in quantities of less than 750 pounds.

(4) Fuse lighters and fuse igniters.

(5) Safety fuses.

(c) Detonating cord shall not be kept or stored with blasting caps, but may be stored with other explosives.

(d) All magazines shall be located or protected as to minimize accidental impact from vehicles or falling objects.

(e) Area surrounding magazines shall be kept clear of brush, dried grass, leaves, and other combustible materials for a distance of 50 feet.

(1) Magazine contents shall be protected from flooding. The ground around magazines shall slope away from the magazine or drainage shall be provided.

(f) Electric power lines shall be kept at least 5 feet away from the exterior of any underground magazine except underground service.

(g) Magazines shall be located at least 25 feet from low-voltage electrical lines and 100 feet from high-voltage electrical lines. Care should be taken that they be placed in such a manner that should a line break, it would not fall within this distance except for underground service.

(h) Quantity and Storage Restrictions.

(1) Explosive materials in excess of 300,000 pounds or detonators in excess of 20 million shall not be stored in one magazine.

(2) Detonators shall not be kept or stored in any magazine with other explosive materials, except under any of the following conditions:

(A) In a Type 4 magazine, detonators that will not mass detonate may be stored with electric squibs, safety fuse, igniters, and igniter cord.

(B) In a Type 1 or Type 2 magazine, detonators may be stored with delay devices and any of the items listed in subsection (h)(2)(A) of this Section.

(C) When approved by the Division.

(3) No more than 50 pounds of high explosives shall be stored in an indoor magazine.

(i) Type 3 magazines "Day Box" shall not be used for storage of more than 110 pounds of explosive materials.

(j) All magazines shall be kept closed and locked, except when contents are being removed or replaced. Keys or combinations shall be kept in a safe place. Only persons authorized by the employer or licensed blaster shall be permitted to unlock or remove supplies from a magazine.

(k) Fuse caps with attached safety fuses shall not be stored in an explosives magazine, but may be stored in a magazine with other detonators.

(l) Vehicular storage facilities for Types 2, 4 and 5 magazines shall have wheels removed or shall be immobilized by kingpin locking devices.

(m) Explosive materials shall not be left unattended in Type 3 magazines. The explosive materials shall be removed to a Type 1 or 2 magazine for storage.

(n) A running inventory shall be maintained for the magazine to indicate the quantity of explosive materials in storage, quantity removed, date of removal and the name of the person responsible for transfer/removal of the explosive materials.

Exception: A Type 3 magazine (day box).

(o) Magazines shall not be located within 300 feet of the entrance (portal) of an active tunnel or mine.

(p) Signs shall be posted on the premises where magazines are located with the words "EXPLOSIVES - KEEP OFF" legibly printed thereon in letters not less than 3 inches high with a 1/2 inch stroke. Such signs shall be within 100 feet of the magazine and so placed that a bullet through the sign will not strike the magazine.

(q) Metal magazines shall be equipped with electrical bonding connections between all conductive portions so the entire structure is at the same electrical potential. Suitable electrical grounding methods include welding, riveting, or the use of securely tightened bolts where individual metal portions are joined. Conductive portions of non-metal magazines shall be grounded.


Note: Authority cited: Section 142.3, Labor Code. Reference: Section 142.3, Labor Code; and Section 12006, Health and Safety Code.

Sheepdog1968
10-18-2009, 8:55 PM
You would think there would be more clarity re ammo. I've looked and haven't found an answer. From the law above it sounds like I can have 750,000 rounds.

mmartin
10-18-2009, 9:50 PM
Note: Authority cited: Section 142.3, Labor Code. Reference: Section 142.3, Labor Code; and Section 12006, Health and Safety Code.

Universal building code (fire and safety) is the basis for state building code and many county or city building, fire and safety codes. for SD county it shows:
- 20 lbs smokeless powder or 5lbs black powder.
- if stored in a cabinet with 1" thick wood walls, 50 lbs smokeless powder.
- max 10,000 primers.
- no listed limit on completed cartridges/rounds.

interested in details on how your listed code intersects with the UBC...?
thanks, megan

Uriah02
10-18-2009, 9:59 PM
yea I am seeing 3/4 Million as the numerical cap.

Hunt
10-18-2009, 11:04 PM
Can you tell us more about your situation, ontargetrange? For instance, if it is declared a hazard, do they show up to remove it?

building inspector or fire marshall can force you to do many things that are not ordinances.

Hunt
10-18-2009, 11:19 PM
Universal building code (fire and safety) is the basis for state building code and many county or city building, fire and safety codes. for SD county it shows:
- 20 lbs smokeless powder or 5lbs black powder.
- if stored in a cabinet with 1" thick wood walls, 50 lbs smokeless powder.
- max 10,000 primers.
- no listed limit on completed cartridges/rounds.

interested in details on how your listed code intersects with the UBC...?
thanks, megan

don't bank on it they switched to the IBC last year and got rid of the UBC all together.

DesertDawg
10-19-2009, 4:19 AM
For several years, the governments (both federal and state) have considered imposing "arsenal taxes" on ammunition, plus requiring owners of ammo to obtain "arsenal permits". These are above and beyond the "regular" taxes that are already imposed on ammo at the time of purchase.

With the way our "freedoms" are being shut down, plus the way that the economy is, I don't doubt that these requirements will "someday" be authored in legislative papers. Just consider how the State of California has "demonized" not only guns, but now ammunition.

not-fishing
10-19-2009, 5:25 AM
- max 10,000 primers.

Wow that ain't much. Maybe I'll have to rearrange my primers into a couple of separate containers. Right now they're in one locked, vandel-proof, heavy steel tool box.

But the 5 gallons of gasoline in the plastic jug on the self is ok. :D

cbn620
10-19-2009, 5:28 AM
Good posts by ontargetrange and HowardW56. Another consideration is if you live in an apartment, or if your block is governed by a home owner's association. Check all contracts you have signed, etc.

pigiron
10-19-2009, 6:01 AM
To be safe and sure, find out what version of the Uniform Fire Code your community has adopted. More often than not, it is primers and powder that are a concern rather than bulk ammo storage.

mmartin
10-19-2009, 7:41 AM
don't bank on it they switched to the IBC last year and got rid of the UBC all together.

pretty sure IBC reads the same on that subject... I'll check.
megan

thefurball
10-19-2009, 8:17 AM
... no need to store this much...

"Need" has nothing to do with it.

mmartin
10-19-2009, 8:47 AM
"Need" has nothing to do with it.

need is a time relevant term...

when all is under control in the world, it's "why do you need all that? are you crazy?"

when things go badly wrong, it's "wow we really needed all that, glad you planned ahead."

one day's crazy is the next day's prepared.

megan

wash
10-19-2009, 10:07 AM
I've got a pretty large flammables cabinet. My ammo only fills a little more than one shelf.

Once my cabinet gets about half full I'll have plenty and I'll still feel that it is stored safe.

RudyN
10-19-2009, 10:10 AM
The amount of ammo to have is limited only by the strength of the floor you will be stacking it one. ;)

tombinghamthegreat
10-19-2009, 11:00 AM
No limit.

Hunt
10-19-2009, 12:46 PM
pretty sure IBC reads the same on that subject... I'll check.
megan

it doesn't IBC appears much more restrictive see the note about sprinklered buildings. Really since the code changes best thing to do is talk to fire marshall. anyone brave enough to call FM ?

gazzavc
10-19-2009, 1:23 PM
How much you have is your business and yours alone. As long as you are storing it safely (IE: Not on top of the hot water heater or in a 5 gallon home depot bucket) there shouldn't be any problem.

Besides why advertise how much you have on an open forum anyway.

Gary

Phil3
10-19-2009, 9:28 PM
I actually have very little ammo. I will get more, but nothing like ten thousand rounds. I was just curious. One can accumulate a lot of 22LR for instance, without much effort.

- Phil

Hunt
10-19-2009, 10:46 PM
I actually have very little ammo. I will get more, but nothing like ten thousand rounds. I was just curious. One can accumulate a lot of 22LR for instance, without much effort.

- Phil

yeah sure we believe you, you probably have 100k rounds of 7.62 x39 and 10 AKs just waiting for the return of the Zombies

swhatb
10-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Universal building code (fire and safety) is the basis for state building code and many county or city building, fire and safety codes. for SD county it shows:
- 20 lbs smokeless powder or 5lbs black powder.
- if stored in a cabinet with 1" thick wood walls, 50 lbs smokeless powder.
- max 10,000 primers.
- no listed limit on completed cartridges/rounds.

interested in details on how your listed code intersects with the UBC...?
thanks, megan

interesting...

tombinghamthegreat
10-20-2009, 12:14 AM
I actually have very little ammo. I will get more, but nothing like ten thousand rounds. I was just curious. One can accumulate a lot of 22LR for instance, without much effort.

you can have 10,000 rounds for a reasonable price in a few days from buying sites like ammoman.;)

BLC
10-20-2009, 8:24 AM
Buy it cheap, stack it deep.

Well stack it deep anyway...

Ravenslair
10-20-2009, 10:14 AM
Store as much as the shelves will hold!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/Shelves20DFD.jpg

easy
10-21-2009, 6:54 PM
^ me likeee!

6172crew
10-21-2009, 9:05 PM
^ me likeee!

Makes my stash look sad, Im up on about 10k right now but without a good job to support I have been laying low.

ontargetrange
10-21-2009, 10:48 PM
Can you tell us more about your situation, ontargetrange? For instance, if it is declared a hazard, do they show up to remove it?

I wish that is all they would do -- rather they first have the LE's close me down -- have the firetrucks show up and probably the bomb squad -- give me a big "ticket" and then haul it all away for disposal -- after that I get to see a Judge and pay another fine for causing such a problem and I get to pay for everyone's time to dispose of my personal property. qiuck estimate from them was start at $5K and go up from there plus the cost of my property and the lawyer I have to hire

I asked and this was their "process", so I don't store or sell any powder

AndrewMendez
10-22-2009, 8:35 AM
I could have sworn it was infinity plus 1

AndrewMendez
10-22-2009, 8:38 AM
Universal building code (fire and safety) is the basis for state building code and many county or city building, fire and safety codes. for SD county it shows:
- 20 lbs smokeless powder or 5lbs black powder.
- if stored in a cabinet with 1" thick wood walls, 50 lbs smokeless powder.
- max 10,000 primers.
- no listed limit on completed cartridges/rounds.

interested in details on how your listed code intersects with the UBC...?
thanks, megan

I don't not believe this applies to Private Property.

mmartin
11-06-2009, 2:09 PM
I don't not believe this applies to Private Property.

pretty sure it does, as this part of the building code applies to both residential and commercial. there are call outs for storage of explosives for commercial ventures that deal with them, but I think this is not covered in that section. I've got the IBC on my home computer, I can check, but when I read it for this specifically, it looked like it applied to everyone.

megan