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cyrus
10-16-2009, 7:14 PM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

I bought my first gun ever as soon as Obama was elected. I bought a beautiful M1A Load From Springfield. Marched down to WalMart and got sticker shock! $0.80 dollars a shot and the good stuff is $1.50. So I bought a Remington Milspec 5R 700. Still 308 but bolt. I figured that would save money. Both eventually went way (unfired). 223 for me! I bought a thousand rounds at the worst time for $465 (newb). Thinking more I added a .22 CZ 452 to mix. Wow, Finally something I can shoot till drop without worring about $$$.

I have a good Engineering job and all but when I go ammo shopping I am amazing at all the rounds that are 80 cents, $1.00, $1.25, and higher. I can not even imagine buying a Big Bore rifle, who can feed it!? I never thought of shooting as being a RICH MANS SPORT, but rather just a blue collar past time. I heard it was not always this way.

Let me hear stories back in the day about the cost of 30-06 when surplus as available. About shooting when cost was not a concern and when I could have afforded my 2nd amendment right.

CGT80
10-16-2009, 7:24 PM
I bought my xd 40 cal pistol in 2005 when winchester white box ammo at wallyworld costed something like $16 per 100 pack if I remember correctly. Now the price is about $32 per 100 from what I am told. I have reloaded for it since I bought it and right now my handloads cost $0.146 each. Last summer I bought a mini 14 target model rifle. My reloads for it cost me $0.187 each.

It is amazing that the price of ammo has doubled or more in less than 5 years. Reloading brings the cost way down, but it takes time and money for equipment. 30-06 can be reloaded for far less than what new ammo sells for also, but I don't recall how much it used to cost or what my reload cost is.

sargenv
10-16-2009, 7:26 PM
Um.. if you are buying factory well, you are likely paying way too much. But then when I started shooting, 308 Win ammo was about $7/20 for domestic and $4.50/20 for the fire once and forget Norinco stuff. SKS's were the rage and 7.62/39 was $80 per case of 1000. It was all steel jacket/steel case stuff, but it was dirt cheap.

.223 Rem could be had for $4/20 and $2.99/20 if it was chinese or russian, but again it was steel case/steel core bullet.

9mm was hardly worth reloading when the cheap stuff was $5.99 or less per 50. I remember when .40 S&W came out, it was $10/50 and 45 acp was hovering about the same for domestic and cheaper if you bought mil surp or in bulk.

Recent prices are scary expensive but you pay the price if you want to shoot it. The days of cheap ammo appear to be all but gone due to various conflicts around the world and laws placed into effect that restrict pulldown milsurp components being sold on the open market.. Toss in the new current handgun ammo law, and likely prices will rise yet again as supplies will be stripped while people stock up before the enaction date in a bit less than a year and a half.

I was shooting a friend's .338 Lapua Magnum one day. I think I fired maybe a box of shells.. he had about 100 or so.. and I felt bad that every shot was costing him $3.. :shock: I felt a little better when he said he had to shoot it up since he wanted to brass for reloading and someone had to shoot it anyway, may as well have been me.

mif_slim
10-16-2009, 7:28 PM
I think Walmart has held their price pretty well. I remember Blazer Brass for .40 going for 11 bux or something. It made me wish I had gotten more at the time but its fine with me because Im still getting .14 per round or .27 per .223 rounds.

THT
10-16-2009, 7:33 PM
The funny thing about shooting is the real aficionados, the guys with NFA goodies, are typically very well-off as the hobby demands it. When a single firearm could cost more than a car, feeding it isn't that big of a concern. To put that in perspective, a $200K+ minigun eats $25 in ammo per second.

sevensix2x51
10-16-2009, 7:34 PM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

I bought my first gun ever as soon as Obama was elected. I bought a beautiful M1A Load From Springfield. Marched down to WalMart and got sticker shock! $0.80 dollars a shot and the good stuff is $1.50. So I bought a Remington Milspec 5R 700. Still 308 but bolt. I figured that would save money. Both eventually went way (unfired). 223 for me! I bought a thousand rounds at the worst time for $465 (newb). Thinking more I added a .22 CZ 452 to mix. Wow, Finally something I can shoot till drop without worring about $$$.

I have a good Engineering job and all but when I go ammo shopping I am amazing at all the rounds that are 80 cents, $1.00, $1.25, and higher. I can not even imagine buying a Big Bore rifle, who can feed it!? I never thought of shooting as being a RICH MANS SPORT, but rather just a blue collar past time. I heard it was not always this way.

Let me hear stories back in the day about the cost of 30-06 when surplus as available. About shooting when cost was not a concern and when I could have afforded my 2nd amendment right.

i dropped out of high school and joined a union, so i have no student loans and make $130k a year. 80 aint so bad... but as far as shooting a crapload of ammo goes, nothing beats .22lr. or .17hmr for a "hot" load. i like to do my scoped rifle shooting with my .17, it's really fun, and the groups are -tiny- when all the rounds touch. makes me feel better about myself. also, squirrels and english sparrows go "POP" when they get hit by a CCI TNT... $13-$15 for a box of 50, and a 2550fps muzzle velocity makes it a pretty awesome rimfire.

oh, and wolf .308 is 48/rd at midway.. that helps me a lot..

Nessal
10-16-2009, 7:34 PM
That's like owning a Honda Civic and asking why people buy corvettes. Both goes from point A to point B, buts its how you get there.

5ohguy
10-16-2009, 7:37 PM
Try hunting larger game with a 223. You better be a very good shot. 223 is a great caliber, but it does have some pretty significant limitations.

9mm can be a very good man stopper with the right ammo, but a lot of people just prefer the long proven stopping power of the 45.

It really just comes down to preference and how often you shoot.

cyrus
10-16-2009, 7:41 PM
Try hunting larger game with a 223. You better be a very good shot. 223 is a great caliber, but it does have some pretty significant limitations.

9mm can be a very good man stopper with the right ammo, but a lot of people just prefer the long proven stopping power of the 45.

It really just comes down to preference and how often you shoot.

It is a retorical question.

technique
10-16-2009, 7:45 PM
Heh, I have slowed on the .458 SOCOM. It was at a minimum of $56 a box of 20 when I started shooting it. I would still fire a few hundred per session. Then more mfg's started producing it, and I also started reloading it.

I still fire 5.56 like its free. I buy wolf because my gun can hang with it without issue. In Ca, I had stopped going to the range, it was a waste of time.
I would rather pay $500 for a class and expend 1500rnds ($525) in 2 days...it just feels better.
Now, I have a range in my back yard (I will wait til I have a silencer to use it frequently), but I go down the road to an unmanned range, its divided into sections...you can basically have your own range (theres about 15 individual ranges on the lot) you can run up and down range at your leisure....Bring your own barricades, targets, etc..THIS is no good for my ammo supply.

ShelbyGT500
10-16-2009, 7:51 PM
That's like owning a Honda Civic and asking why people buy 240zs. Both goes from point A to point B, buts its how you get there.

fixed, lol

anyway, yeah ammo prices are ridiculous, but im only 21 so I couldnt start this fine hobby earlier :(

rg_1111@yahoo.com
10-16-2009, 7:54 PM
In the good old days. .223 at RCGE 1.99 for 20 rounds.
In late 1970s SA Battle pack $18.
.357 $5. a box of 50
.22 50 cents for 50 rounds.

5ohguy
10-16-2009, 7:57 PM
It is a retorical question.

Then I guess I should shut up. :rolleyes:

jyo
10-16-2009, 8:13 PM
Well, at fear of sounding truly old, lets start at the bottom---22lr used to cost $8-10 dollars a brick (for 25+ years!) of 500 copper coated until a couple of years ago then shot-up $16 and now you see people selling for $25 to even $35 for 500. When I first starting shooting 9mm it was NOT a common cartridge---you only saw old guys from WW11 shooting old Lugers and P38s with the very occasional Browning P35. Ammo prices (often WW11 corrosive) was often as cheap as 22lr---just clean your gun! Until a couple of years ago, you could get brand new 9mm ammo shipped to your door for approx $100 a case of 1000---then 200---now close to 300---you get the picture. This was "white box" FMJ (US made) practice ammo and imported stuff like S&B, PMC etc. .223 was selling for $2.99 a box of 20 (US made) and because I was managing a large gunstore, I paid only about 2.50 a box---.308 was about $4 a box of 20---mostly foreign military non-corrosive and again I paid less as a store manager. Yes, shooting has become a more expensive sport then it used to be for sure---but every other sport has had similar price hikes---just look at fees for golf or go to a music concert! Good luck and I hope you enjoy your new hobby.

Desert_AIP
10-16-2009, 10:09 PM
If price is your only criteria, stick to .22LR.

NSR500
10-16-2009, 10:37 PM
You gotta pay to play... That's just the way it works.

ponderosa
10-16-2009, 10:48 PM
I have a box of .38 supers with a 9.99 price tag...

five.five-six
10-16-2009, 10:52 PM
9mm will not stop a threat as effectively with the same shot as a .45acp

and .223, just won't reach out and touch somebody at 1km like a .308

simple as that

pipboy
10-16-2009, 11:10 PM
10 years ago when I started shooting on a regular basis, I used to buy 9mm at Trader's Sports for $130/1000 rnds. CCI mini-mag .22lr 100 packs were around $4-$5. I shot without a worry in the world. Now everything has nearly doubled if you can even find it. Whenever I shoot .45 I think twice and it makes me cringe...

dchang0
10-16-2009, 11:40 PM
I wonder what the cheapest centerfire rifle round is, since we're on the topic of shooting economically.

NSR500
10-17-2009, 12:02 AM
I wonder what the cheapest centerfire rifle round is, since we're on the topic of shooting economically.

Hmmm... I'd say 5.45x39 is the cheapest right now.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-17-2009, 12:21 AM
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs. Especially if you are buying all of your ammo at the store. Give it a couple of years and then come back and tell me how many calibers you have. Don't get me wrong here. I like them both. But they are both very limited in what they can do. I can reload some of my rifle cartridges for literally pennies a pop. And I can take anything on the continent with some of them. That .223 is only going to annoy a bear, and is outright illegal for deer in many states. So please don't come into a gun forum after admitting buying your first gun less than a year ago and try to lecture us on the folly of owning anything other than your two favorite cartridges. There are people on here that have shoes older than you. And some of us still shoot guns older than your grandparents. Either show some respect by not foolishly trolling, or get out. You ain't some font of wisdom pointing out something the rest of us don't know.

-Mb (who has little use for trolls)

k_corj
10-17-2009, 12:38 AM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

Simple, penis size :D

The smaller the wang the larger the caliber. Remember this when someone is shooting a .44mag next to you.

gun toting monkeyboy
10-17-2009, 12:40 AM
Simple, penis size :D

The smaller the wang the larger the caliber. Remember this when someone is shooting a .44mag next to you.

(sigh) The trolls are out late tonight...

The right tool for the job, people. You can't drive a nail with an egg beater.

RT13
10-17-2009, 1:03 AM
...because .223's are for wussies, lol. J/K!:cool:

I can understand the price differences and concerns and have done somewhat similar things. I use to own different caliber semiautos and ended up revamping the safe collection and stuck to only 9mm and .45 semiautos, but I have much more 9mm semiautos than .45's. For long guns on the otherhand, I went the opposite. I started small from .22, .223. and .17 and jumped to .308. I fell in love with the .308 so much that I no longer shoot my smaller caliber rifles. Everything I shoot is 30 caliber now, the 7.62X39 being the smallest on my Saiga. I just love shooting the .308 out of my M1A Scout and Rem 700. As someone else here put it as a car analogy. For me it's like owning a Camry and a Civic while also owning a let's say, the new Camaro Z28 with an LS3 motor, lol. It's just damn hard to drive the other two ever again after you drive your new Camaro for the first time. I know it will cost more, but it will put a smile on your face everytime you are driving.

Amacias805
10-17-2009, 1:43 AM
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs. Especially if you are buying all of your ammo at the store. Give it a couple of years and then come back and tell me how many calibers you have. Don't get me wrong here. I like them both. But they are both very limited in what they can do. I can reload some of my rifle cartridges for literally pennies a pop. And I can take anything on the continent with some of them. That .223 is only going to annoy a bear, and is outright illegal for deer in many states. So please don't come into a gun forum after admitting buying your first gun less than a year ago and try to lecture us on the folly of owning anything other than your two favorite cartridges. There are people on here that have shoes older than you. And some of us still shoot guns older than your grandparents. Either show some respect by not foolishly trolling, or get out. You ain't some font of wisdom pointing out something the rest of us don't know.

-Mb (who has little use for trolls)

what crawled up your but and died?

epic4444
10-17-2009, 1:46 AM
You gotta pay to play... That's just the way it works.

my life motto

epic4444
10-17-2009, 1:49 AM
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs. Especially if you are buying all of your ammo at the store. Give it a couple of years and then come back and tell me how many calibers you have. Don't get me wrong here. I like them both. But they are both very limited in what they can do. I can reload some of my rifle cartridges for literally pennies a pop. And I can take anything on the continent with some of them. That .223 is only going to annoy a bear, and is outright illegal for deer in many states. So please don't come into a gun forum after admitting buying your first gun less than a year ago and try to lecture us on the folly of owning anything other than your two favorite cartridges. There are people on here that have shoes older than you. And some of us still shoot guns older than your grandparents. Either show some respect by not foolishly trolling, or get out. You ain't some font of wisdom pointing out something the rest of us don't know.

-Mb (who has little use for trolls)

dang are military is full of noobs, i guess me and every other AR owner are noobs to

ShelbyGT500
10-17-2009, 2:06 AM
9mm and .223 WILL take down a man, now the argument on whether .45 has better stopping power, well theres a reason we have magazines :p

not-fishing
10-17-2009, 3:16 AM
Another look...

9mm and .223 WILL take down a man, now the argument on whether .45 has better stopping power, well theres a reason we have magazines

Yeah, my problem is I'm not a very good shot, I'm to slow to run away, I'm to old to wait for a guy to fall down and I'm to stupid to deal with all the problems of semi-autos.

I like wheel guns and double barrels with double triggers. So I stick to wheelguns that start with four and one day I might be able to afford a double barrel that is not for the birds. you gotta love that nitro express hammer

I figure shooting is a lot like fly fishing; you can buy your ammo (or fly) retail or you can "roll your own". Both are not appreciably cheaper untill you get into the 10,000's of bullets, shells or flies. But I'm a do it yourself type of guy and supply the ammo when I shoot with my kids. I go thru 300+ rounds of centerfire rifle, shotgun shells or centerfire wheelgun/pistol shells in a single low-shooting morning with some of the kids. I've never been able to schedule all of them at the same time. I couldn't afford the ammo otherwise.

It's your choice reload, tie your own flies or buy retail.I have the bad habit of trying to cast under the overhanging trees so I loose flies by the dozens

My biggest problem is I'm busted up and old so I drive an old man's Cadillac that I still have to shift because I like having fun. a Cadillac CTS-V :)

becxltoo984
10-17-2009, 3:39 AM
After a while shooting 9mm and 5.56 gets real boring . Thats when FN Fal gets taken out and i start ringing that 400 yard gong target . :p

cgseanp1
10-17-2009, 7:28 AM
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs. Especially if you are buying all of your ammo at the store. Give it a couple of years and then come back and tell me how many calibers you have. Don't get me wrong here. I like them both. But they are both very limited in what they can do. I can reload some of my rifle cartridges for literally pennies a pop. And I can take anything on the continent with some of them. That .223 is only going to annoy a bear, and is outright illegal for deer in many states. So please don't come into a gun forum after admitting buying your first gun less than a year ago and try to lecture us on the folly of owning anything other than your two favorite cartridges. There are people on here that have shoes older than you. And some of us still shoot guns older than your grandparents. Either show some respect by not foolishly trolling, or get out. You ain't some font of wisdom pointing out something the rest of us don't know.

-Mb (who has little use for trolls)

:rolleyes: tough guy

a1fabweld
10-17-2009, 7:30 AM
I just got out of drag racing/hotrodding & sold my car a few weeks ago. Didn't have time anymore to enjoy it with work & family. THAT was expensive. To make a mistake & blow up your $10k engine, that hurts. Plus all the maintenance adds up. My guns/ammo/shooting hobby costs a fraction of racing. When I spend $200 a month on ammo, I hardly even notice it in comparison. Building up my inventory of the guns I wanted got a little expensive at times. But, maintenance cost almost nothing. Ammo is cheaper than $8 per gallon race fuel.

cyrus
10-17-2009, 8:08 AM
Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs. Especially if you are buying all of your ammo at the store. Give it a couple of years and then come back and tell me how many calibers you have. Don't get me wrong here. I like them both. But they are both very limited in what they can do. I can reload some of my rifle cartridges for literally pennies a pop. And I can take anything on the continent with some of them. That .223 is only going to annoy a bear, and is outright illegal for deer in many states. So please don't come into a gun forum after admitting buying your first gun less than a year ago and try to lecture us on the folly of owning anything other than your two favorite cartridges. There are people on here that have shoes older than you. And some of us still shoot guns older than your grandparents. Either show some respect by not foolishly trolling, or get out. You ain't some font of wisdom pointing out something the rest of us don't know.

-Mb (who has little use for trolls)

uhh.... Question was retorhical. I would love larger calibers, but my wallet doesn't (especially with 2 babies at home.) Maybe I can afford them in the future.

No troll here.

Cheers

gun toting monkeyboy
10-17-2009, 8:17 AM
dang are military is full of noobs, i guess me and every other AR owner are noobs to

That is one of the specific uses that 5.56 is good for. And exactly how many of you would spurn all other rifle cartridges and try to use your AR for everything? None of you? That would be because you know that it isn't the end-all, be-all cartridge for everything. What he was saying was that, as an admitted noob, the rest of us were wasting out time and money going with anything other than his annointed flavors. I freely admit that I don't know everything about guns. But to have somebody who got his first one less than a year ago come in and act like he knows all ticks me off big time.:mad:

CSACANNONEER
10-17-2009, 8:38 AM
Try feeding a 3" Parrot Rifle. No, I don't own one but, I have live fired one of my friends several times. It's about $75/round right now. Or, I can cast .69cal round balls for about two hours and make a single load of canister shot for about $40 including lead, powder and a friction primer. Since none of us can afford to shoot it often, I downsized to 50BMG a few years back. Seriously OP, you are so new to the shooting sports, I don't understand how you can be so opinionated so quickly. I like .22lrs a lot! they are much cheaper to shoot than your wimpy 9mm! Oh, I also cast my own bullets so a box of .25acp, 9mm, .45acp, .44mag, .45LC, etc. all cost about the same (within $0.50/box). I prefer .45acp to 9mm and I don't understand why anyone would buy and prefer to shoot a 9mm. This is not really true, there are some forms of compition where 9mm has advantages. As far as rifle calibers go, haha! .223 is definately not the ultimate, do all, rifle caliber. In fact, it's one of the last caliber's I'd recommend to anyone who is learning to shot. First, I'd have a newbie get a .22lr and learn to shoot it properly. Then, it would really depend on his/her wants and needs before thinking of getting a centerfire gun to suppliment the rimfire one. For SD/HD, I'd probably not recommend any rifle. Instead, I'd push for a shotgun. For competitive shooting, the caliber and type of rifle would depend on the type of competition. For hunting, the caliber and type of rifle would depend on the intended game and type of terrain being hunted. For plinking, all bets are off and it's get whatever makes you happy.

BTW, surplus 30-06 was available through CMP until a week or two ago. It will be back and it will probably be still be cheaper than $0.40/round. I don't think it has ever been that high yet!

cgseanp1
10-17-2009, 8:39 AM
That is one of the specific uses that 5.56 is good for. And exactly how many of you would spurn all other rifle cartridges and try to use your AR for everything? None of you? That would be because you know that it isn't the end-all, be-all cartridge for everything. What he was saying was that, as an admitted noob, the rest of us were wasting out time and money going with anything other than his annointed flavors. I freely admit that I don't know everything about guns. But to have somebody who got his first one less than a year ago come in and act like he knows all ticks me off big time.:mad:


Uhh, I don't think he was saying that at all. Maybe if you can get past his first sentence. What he should of said is it's hard to understand how anyone can AFFORD to shoot anything larger than 9mm or 223.

CSACANNONEER
10-17-2009, 8:46 AM
dang are military is full of noobs, i guess me and every other AR owner are noobs to

You arre right! The military is comprised mainly of newbies! BTW, no one if all you have is an AR or two in .223, I'd probably classify you as a noob. Many AR owners own other guns an/or other caliber ARs as well. Don't be so narrow minded

After a while shooting 9mm and 5.56 gets real boring . Thats when FN Fal gets taken out and i start ringing that 400 yard gong target . :p

Hell, if you can't hit a gong at 400 with a .223, you need to practice more. BTW, out to 400, I prefer to shoot with irons, does your FAL have optics? If not, that's better shooting than many here can ever hope to do. I love plinking the 300 & 400 yard gongs at Angeles with cheap surplus rifles like Mausers and my K31. If the lighting is right, I've been taking them out to 600 lately.

Beelzy
10-17-2009, 9:15 AM
Simple, penis size :D

The smaller the wang the larger the caliber. Remember this when someone is shooting a .44mag next to you.

Especially when it's a Hot Female.:rolleyes:

Sounds like someone can't "handle" a large caliber yet..........:p

Poor you. :(

dchang0
10-17-2009, 10:13 AM
Hmmm... I'd say 5.45x39 is the cheapest right now.

Yeah, that's what I thought. It might be time to build a 5.45 AR, though I'd heard that all of the 5.45 out there is steel core, ruling it out for use at the SoCal ranges most of the year. Are there copper+lead 5.45x39 ammo?

bridgeport
10-17-2009, 10:31 AM
Here's the deal OP, Yes .. you are absolutely correct about sticker shock when looking at new ammo in the store. Most guys who shoot even .223 and 9mm
either reload, or buy surplus in bulk from places on the net, or buy it from
vendors at guns shows etc. Think of buying a case of wolf ammo or yugo
or milsurp combloc etc. It is possible to shoot even today larger bore rifles
without breaking the bank. You bought a rifle (M1-A) that is a bit pricy to feed now, by historical standards, with the ammo rush on and all that.
Look on the bright side though... you cant take it with you, so spend it on some ammo and enjoy yourself.

ShelbyGT500
10-17-2009, 10:43 AM
My biggest problem is I'm busted up and old so I drive an old man's Cadillac that I still have to shift because I like having fun. a Cadillac CTS-V :)

:eek: :cool2: If I had the money this is what I would buy, congrats

freakshow10mm
10-17-2009, 11:01 AM
My caliber footprint. I've owned weapons in the following cartridges:

25 ACP
256 Win Mag
380 ACP
9mm
38Spl
357 Mag
357 Max
10mm
41 Mag
45 ACP
45 Colt
44 Mag
50 AE
223
22-250
250 Savage
7mm-08
308 Win
300 Win
8mm Mauser
8mm Mag
338-06
376 Steyr
375 H&H
45/70

Currently own 223, 9mm, 10mm, and 20ga. Have no real desire to have anything else. Might play with .300 Whisper and 50 BMG for a bit.

Mr.Pickles
10-17-2009, 11:14 AM
I like all calibers especially rare ones I will always will love my 8x56r M95. for modern just like to mix it up with different guns and calibers. .223 and 9M like some other posters said would get boring really fast. I actually dislike 9mm because is says Europe too much to me and .223/5.56 says AR/tacticool mallninja(I like them, but not crazy for them, just K.I.S.S). give me .308 and a boltgun and I will be happy at long range. and for the cheap/plinking I break out this:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm221/kennethurdiales/th_1238186293749.jpg (http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm221/kennethurdiales/?action=view&current=1238186293749.jpg)

tombinghamthegreat
10-17-2009, 11:37 AM
to the OP: maybe the problem is you are buying from the wrong source. I remember buying 30-06 surplus ammo for like .30 or .40 cents a round. Heck i got 440 rounds of 7.62x54r 2 years ago for like 70 dollars.

http://ammoman.com/ try this site

ArkinDomino
10-17-2009, 11:47 AM
Not to be rude, but .223 and 9mm are for noobs.

I like how you then call other people trolls...

Funny how the professional operators out there use these 2 calibers for many applications eh? :rolleyes:

B Strong
10-17-2009, 1:16 PM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

I bought my first gun ever as soon as Obama was elected. I bought a beautiful M1A Load From Springfield. Marched down to WalMart and got sticker shock! $0.80 dollars a shot and the good stuff is $1.50. So I bought a Remington Milspec 5R 700. Still 308 but bolt. I figured that would save money. Both eventually went way (unfired). 223 for me! I bought a thousand rounds at the worst time for $465 (newb). Thinking more I added a .22 CZ 452 to mix. Wow, Finally something I can shoot till drop without worring about $$$.

I have a good Engineering job and all but when I go ammo shopping I am amazing at all the rounds that are 80 cents, $1.00, $1.25, and higher. I can not even imagine buying a Big Bore rifle, who can feed it!? I never thought of shooting as being a RICH MANS SPORT, but rather just a blue collar past time. I heard it was not always this way.

Let me hear stories back in the day about the cost of 30-06 when surplus as available. About shooting when cost was not a concern and when I could have afforded my 2nd amendment right.

Better get your crying towel out before reading any farther.

Back in the 1970's- 1980's the average price for surplus 7.62 NATO M80 type ball in quantity was less than $140.00 a thousand. I went in with two friends of mine in the mid-80's and bought Israeli surplus black-tip 7.62 NATO for $99.00 a thousand FOB.

When the first 7.62 x 39 Chinese stuff was available in quantity in the early 80's it was $100.00 a thousand, you could get 1400 round cases out of SGN for 120.00ish if you bought ten or more cases.

We used to get 30-06 black tip in M1 Garand clips for 165.00 a thousand.

SNEAKS
10-17-2009, 1:29 PM
I think the OP should look into a pellet gun. You could shoot all day for a few bucks. When you start shooting some of the bigger bore handguns and rifles you will get what all of the hype is about with owning one. It will be well worth it if you really are into shooting plus they are not the daily shooters in ones arsenal.

SJgunguy24
10-17-2009, 1:29 PM
Bill, I like you. Please stop dating yourself for crying out loud!!!!
Hell it wasn't that long ago (late 90's) I bought 8 cases(1320rd) of surplus russian military ammo for 1K. Hell even Walmart had Rem green box jhp 9mm for 13.44 per 100.




Better get your crying towel out before reading any farther.

Back in the 1970's- 1980's the average price for surplus 7.62 NATO M80 type ball in quantity was less than $140.00 a thousand. I went in with two friends of mine in the mid-80's and bought Israeli surplus black-tip 7.62 NATO for $99.00 a thousand FOB.

When the first 7.62 x 39 Chinese stuff was available in quantity in the early 80's it was $100.00 a thousand, you could get 1400 round cases out of SGN for 120.00ish if you bought ten or more cases.

We used to get 30-06 black tip in M1 Garand clips for 165.00 a thousand.

epic4444
10-17-2009, 2:10 PM
You arre right! The military is comprised mainly of newbies! BTW, no one if all you have is an AR or two in .223, I'd probably classify you as a noob. Many AR owners own other guns an/or other caliber ARs as well. Don't be so narrow minded



Hell, if you can't hit a gong at 400 with a .223, you need to practice more. BTW, out to 400, I prefer to shoot with irons, does your FAL have optics? If not, that's better shooting than many here can ever hope to do. I love plinking the 300 & 400 yard gongs at Angeles with cheap surplus rifles like Mausers and my K31. If the lighting is right, I've been taking them out to 600 lately.

are you serious?

God Bless The Mauser
10-17-2009, 2:11 PM
Try $37 for a box of 20 rounds for Federal GMM .308.

locosway
10-17-2009, 3:19 PM
Didn't read all the posts, but from the title...

.223 and 9mm are not the answer to all situations. They do have limitations. Reasons to buy larger caliber guns is obvious to most people who understand these limitations.

With that said, I'd hate to be limited to a .223 and 9mm if I was wandering the AK wilderness.

CSACANNONEER
10-17-2009, 3:27 PM
are you serious?

Am I serious about what?

Most people in the military learn to shoot after they enter the military. That makes them newbies right?

Also, if you can't hit a 12" gong at 400 yards with iron sites on a standard AR, you need a lot more practice and a better coach.

so, yea, I guess I'm serious. Do you need a coach?

hnoppenberger
10-17-2009, 3:36 PM
OT, but one guy mentioned the price of concerts and other things.

i used to go to big time bands shows only a few years back as a kid, and be able to get pit tickets or rad seats for less than 50 a ticket.

now its 200 bucks a pit ticket since ticket master is a scam and wont sell the good seats.

so everything is a rip off nowadays, not just ammo.

oh and cyrus the OP, your a cheap skate. you have a good job and bought high dollar guns. sack up and buy ammo for them. and quit your *****en.

MissionMTMan
10-17-2009, 3:46 PM
So would it make you guys mad if I told you I bought 5000 rounds of .223 (some wolf but mostly brass) last december for $120/1000 and brass cased .45acp for $100/1000? I have the best friends in the world, that is all I can say. If I could get more of it, I would have and sold the rest to you guys at a good price. I am actually working on getting Chinese ammunition back into the states with a board of lawyers. Everyone says it can't be done but somebody has to try. The people we have been talking to in China claim they produce a lot of ammunition for Remington. I have no idea and really don't care as long as I can get a batch to test fire and function myself before selling. It is a long road ahead but if it could be done, it could be just like the good ol days. I remember not even thinking about ammo prices while shooting.

Buddhabelly
10-17-2009, 3:46 PM
Am I serious about what?

Most people in the military learn to shoot after they enter the military. That makes them newbies right?

Also, if you can't hit a 12" gong at 400 yards with iron sites on a standard AR, you need a lot more practice and a better coach.

so, yea, I guess I'm serious. Do you need a coach?

Dude, you need to chill out.

The OP started his thread talking about how anyone can afford to shoot anything other than .223 or 9mm. OK. His social, economic and family situation may dictate his expendeable expenses and the feasibility of reloading ammo. Then the posts started getting ugly, to your condesending post about shooting gongs at 400 yards with iron sights!!!

Really, good for you, who cares??!!!

Are you contributing to the OP's message spirit? It may not have been very eloquent nor expressed his original intent accurately. But throughout the 6 pages of this thread, he has not said one thing that's provoking or demeaning. Instead, I read a lot of other people on their soap box calling him out, and bragging about their shooting/reloading prowness. I, for one, don't really care if you shoot the fly's wings off at 10000 yards, but I do care that we treat one another with respect and dignity.

CSACANNONEER
10-18-2009, 8:35 AM
Dude, you need to chill out.

The OP started his thread talking about how anyone can afford to shoot anything other than .223 or 9mm. OK. His social, economic and family situation may dictate his expendeable expenses and the feasibility of reloading ammo. Then the posts started getting ugly, to your condesending post about shooting gongs at 400 yards with iron sights!!!

Really, good for you, who cares??!!!

Are you contributing to the OP's message spirit? It may not have been very eloquent nor expressed his original intent accurately. But throughout the 6 pages of this thread, he has not said one thing that's provoking or demeaning. Instead, I read a lot of other people on their soap box calling him out, and bragging about their shooting/reloading prowness. I, for one, don't really care if you shoot the fly's wings off at 10000 yards, but I do care that we treat one another with respect and dignity.


Dude,

First off, I only have a page and a half on this topic. I find it easier to read these threads if I set them to 40 posts per page. You might want to do the same. It sure makes it easier.

Next, I believe I've contributed to this thread in several ways. I've explained the costs of shooting bigger guns. I've touched on the benefits of reloading to cut ammo costs down (You will also get better ammo if you reload). I've agreed with epic4444 when he sarcasticly stated that the military was full of noobs. 'Cause, it really is. Most people entering the military have little or no experience with firearms. I've disagreed with those who have stated that you need something bigger than .223 for shooting out to 400 yards. You don't. You just need to know how to shoot. I was even the first one to suggest that the OP looks at buying a .22lr, or two, if ammo prices are his main concern.

So dude, except for telling me to chill out (BTW, I'm a pretty mellow guy. I know it can be hard to read tone into posts on the internet though), how have you contributed to this thread?:D

Afterburnt
10-18-2009, 8:40 AM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

I bought my first gun ever as soon as Obama was elected. I bought a beautiful M1A Load From Springfield. Marched down to WalMart and got sticker shock! $0.80 dollars a shot and the good stuff is $1.50. So I bought a Remington Milspec 5R 700. Still 308 but bolt. I figured that would save money. Both eventually went way (unfired). 223 for me! I bought a thousand rounds at the worst time for $465 (newb). Thinking more I added a .22 CZ 452 to mix. Wow, Finally something I can shoot till drop without worring about $$$.

I have a good Engineering job and all but when I go ammo shopping I am amazing at all the rounds that are 80 cents, $1.00, $1.25, and higher. I can not even imagine buying a Big Bore rifle, who can feed it!? I never thought of shooting as being a RICH MANS SPORT, but rather just a blue collar past time. I heard it was not always this way.

Let me hear stories back in the day about the cost of 30-06 when surplus as available. About shooting when cost was not a concern and when I could have afforded my 2nd amendment right.

ammo is not expensive it's your money that's worthless

CSACANNONEER
10-18-2009, 8:41 AM
ammo is not expensive it's your money that's worthless

Thanks. Now I finally have a sig line!

sevensix2x51
10-18-2009, 8:51 AM
that was pretty funny.

Rob454
10-18-2009, 9:11 AM
T That would be because you know that it isn't the end-all, be-all cartridge for everything. :

Sure there is. its a .308. Not too big not too small a cartrige. it will pretty much cover any scenario out there. Except maybe taking down a T rex. And even then just keep shooting. As for the 9mm or .223 yeah they are limited somewhat in usage but those calibers were never designed as anything but use for war between humans ammo. You guys say a 9mm is weak bla bla bla. Go get shot by a 9mm center mass and let us know how it feels. Same for a .223. Sure a 9mm or a .223 wont stop a bear but they weren't designed to. Now they were designed to stop a human. BIG difference between a 800 pound bear and a 180 pound human



What he was saying was that, as an admitted noob, the rest of us were wasting out time and money going with anything other than his annointed flavors. :

I don't feel like he was saying that at all. I think you're just taking it that way. he was simply asking a question. I agree with the OP somewhat. I always wonder to myself how some people have a ton of guns all different calibers and how they can afford to shoot them all. its funny that lots of the guns on the for sale forum are very low round count? I think a lot of people cant afford to shoot all their guns so theire either selling them or not shooting them

ammo is not expensive it's your money that's worthless

LOL thats one of the funniest likes in a long time.

Vinz
10-18-2009, 9:29 AM
It is hard to understand why anyone would buy anything larger than 223 or 9mm.

I bought my first gun ever as soon as Obama was elected. I bought a beautiful M1A Load From Springfield. Marched down to WalMart and got sticker shock! $0.80 dollars a shot and the good stuff is $1.50. So I bought a Remington Milspec 5R 700. Still 308 but bolt. I figured that would save money. Both eventually went way (unfired). 223 for me! I bought a thousand rounds at the worst time for $465 (newb). Thinking more I added a .22 CZ 452 to mix. Wow, Finally something I can shoot till drop without worring about $$$.

I have a good Engineering job and all but when I go ammo shopping I am amazing at all the rounds that are 80 cents, $1.00, $1.25, and higher. I can not even imagine buying a Big Bore rifle, who can feed it!? I never thought of shooting as being a RICH MANS SPORT, but rather just a blue collar past time. I heard it was not always this way.

Let me hear stories back in the day about the cost of 30-06 when surplus as available. About shooting when cost was not a concern and when I could have afforded my 2nd amendment right.

op starts an interesting topic that friends and I have discussed. Rhetorical or not. Op, it might not be your situation but im sure it rings the bells on a lot of the new gun owners that began the trek last year.

There was a lot of rush buying during the Obama scare. People that thought they might have to have a gun. Now finding out they have to feed it.

There is a big difference between necessity buyers and true hobbyists as far as the gun lifstyle is concerned. Most of us started when we were young and are accustom to prices and calibers that suite us.

You have to admit the M1a is a hell of a gun to start with.

vinz

Haplo
10-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Rob454, your avatar is relevant to my interests :D

Noah
10-18-2009, 1:00 PM
Ammoman has .308 wolf 150g for $239 for 500rds.
That is $0.48 a round shipped to your front door.
Yeah there are better deals on .223 than .308 in general but to say you can't shoot a larger caliber for a similar cost is not correct.

Take CSACANNONEERs advice and buy calibers based on your needs. If you are simply looking for cheap shooting. Check out a Airsoft pistol at wallyworld. You can shoot pistol in your garage all night until you drop. :38:

Army GI
10-18-2009, 1:24 PM
Just wanted to add my 2 to the reloading pile...

I own a single stage press and some dies. I can reload 30-06 and .308 for around 24 per shot. Buy a box of 1k FMJ .308 caliber bullets for $180, your powder, primers, and brass (which last for 5 reloads or more of you shoot mild) and you're good:).

Army GI
10-18-2009, 1:27 PM
I don't feel like he was saying that at all. I think you're just taking it that way. he was simply asking a question. I agree with the OP somewhat. I always wonder to myself how some people have a ton of guns all different calibers and how they can afford to shoot them all. its funny that lots of the guns on the for sale forum are very low round count? I think a lot of people cant afford to shoot all their guns so theire either selling them or not shooting them.

True! I own several different rifles: 1898 Krag, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, 1903 Springy, AR15, Winchester 94, and a M91/30 Mosin. I definitely fall into the category of "owning lots of different calibers, but can't afford to shoot all of them". I might shoot, at most, 100 rounds per year from each of the lesser used calibers like .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30. I only shoot the AR15 with any level of frequency. All my other rifles are for show-and-tell:).

MontClaire
10-18-2009, 1:30 PM
you are still a newbie that's why you can't understand. give it sometime. every caliber has it's purpose. read gunwiki.

tombinghamthegreat
10-18-2009, 1:51 PM
Ammoman has .308 wolf 150g for $239 for 500rds.
That is $0.48 a round shipped to your front door.


+1 that. I don't understand why someone would buy most or all of their ammo from a gun store.

mds2004
10-18-2009, 1:54 PM
Ive shot dozens of calibers but my favorite is still the .22lr.
Of course I still use the others for hunting, paper punching, etc but the .22lr is just the most fun to me.
There are definitely needs for the larger calibers depending on the objective, be it hunting, long range paper punching, etc.

Note I did not read any of the above posts and I am certain what I said has already been posted. Im just confirming.

1988
10-18-2009, 2:31 PM
... every caliber has it's purpose.

+1

If you have no purpose, then the cheapest .22lr is all you need. ;)

I paid $.03/rd of .22lr. I can't believe why others paid $.07 or more on .22lr. :D:D

locosway
10-18-2009, 3:20 PM
I would and do own a 9mm, and I plan on owning something in or around the .223 class. However, I would by no means limit myself to only those two rounds.

My main rounds for carrying in a handgun or rifle if I was in the wild would be either a 10mm (autoloader) or .44Mag (revolver) and then a .308 for a rifle (semi-auto) or a .300WSM/WM (bolt).

If I was to choose only two guns it would be a Glock 20 and a M14. The nice thing is I don't have to choose, so that means I can own and shoot cheaper stuff like 9mm and .22lr.. :D

Spirit 1
10-18-2009, 5:19 PM
I remember buying the little cardboard boxes of .22 [what, 50 rounds?] for between $0.24 & $0.37 all the time, even 5 for $1.00, depending on quality & type, so that probably indicates bulk prices also, way back when.

I somewhat agree with your philosophical point and for me .22, 9mm and 20 ga fills a lot of needs, and I can defend myself & eat for life off of those anywhere in the world.

What's killing me is the price of everything on the planet is beyond sanity & it's usually junk in general. Of course that's including all the foreign stuff that was supposed to be such a potential money saver bargain for America, un-huh, right. 'They' never passed on the savings.

Amacias805
10-18-2009, 8:26 PM
My caliber footprint. I've owned weapons in the following cartridges:

25 ACP
256 Win Mag
380 ACP
9mm
38Spl
357 Mag
357 Max
10mm
41 Mag
45 ACP
45 Colt
44 Mag
50 AE
223
22-250
250 Savage
7mm-08
308 Win
300 Win
8mm Mauser
8mm Mag
338-06
376 Steyr
375 H&H
45/70

Currently own 223, 9mm, 10mm, and 20ga. Have no real desire to have anything else. Might play with .300 Whisper and 50 BMG for a bit.

Nice!

I own

25 ACP
30-30 win
22lr
270 win
223 rem
762x54r
762x39
17hmr