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View Full Version : 10/19 Update: VLTOR supplying DSA 6061 receiver extensions with stock kits....


missiontrails
10-16-2009, 12:22 PM
10/20- Received confirmation from VLTOR that they did contract out to DSA for receiver extensions to satisfy demand. However, VLTOR "stands behind them.". Would you order this?:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=779569


10/19- Received e-mail from Blaine at VLTOR, and despite what I "thought" about my measurements, he confirmed that a whole bunch of stock kits were supplied with 6061 (not 7071 or 7075) receiver extensions to help keep up with demand. Since I have not shot mine yet, I asked him if I can exchange mine for a REAL hardened forged 5-position model. Let's see what kind of answer I get. To me, if they advertise stock kits as coming with RE-1 forged tubes, that is what I should get. The extruded tubes were NEVER sold as a separate accessory like the real ones, they were only added to the EMOD and Modstock kits.


The VLTOR receiver extensions I have owned in the past were 5-position, and has VLTOR engraving at the rear of the tube. The tube that came with this kit is 6-position, still has the laser etched numbers along the top, but instead of engraving in the rear, it has 3 little white laser etched VLTOR logos.

http://members.cox.net/dehlers/M451.jpg

technique
10-16-2009, 1:20 PM
That stock is much better than the club foot/Emod one huh?

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 1:43 PM
That stock is much better than the club foot/Emod one huh?

Had the Emod once upon a time, it was good. Ever since I used this "stripped down" modstock when it came on my N4, I have been hooked. I don't need battery storage, and if I decide to go rubber butt pad, I will get the SOG for this.

Jpach
10-16-2009, 2:05 PM
^^^What stock is that? modstock? ? Its very sexy

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 2:09 PM
^^^What stock is that? modstock? ? Its very sexy

Just the basic Modstock kit.

Jpach
10-16-2009, 2:54 PM
Wow Im dumb. I came back on here to see if I got a response and realized that it says the stock name in the title... Jeez. How do you like that SAW grip?

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 4:19 PM
Wow Im dumb. I came back on here to see if I got a response and realized that it says the stock name in the title... Jeez. How do you like that SAW grip?

SERIOUSLY, I have owned a MIAD grip, TD, Hogue, CAA G37... and to me the SAW has "the feel.". There was a magazine (maybe Special Weapons, or SWAT) that did a field test of 6 grips, the SAW was their favorite. By far my favorite Tapco product.

Vinz
10-16-2009, 5:09 PM
I love the way the basic mod feels. It fits my chest much better. Its super light too.
I just ordered a Vltor tube and FDE basick stock and parts from Rainier, I couldn't find it as a complete kit. Everyone was out of stock.
where did you buy MT?
vinz

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 5:25 PM
I love the way the basic mod feels. It fits my chest much better. Its super light too.
I just ordered a Vltor tube and FDE basick stock and parts from Rainier, I couldn't find it as a complete kit. Everyone was out of stock.
where did you buy MT?
vinz

I bought the complete kit from Cal's Sporting Armory, $140, because everyone else was out of stock.

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 9:50 PM
OK, I just figured out what the Sam Hill is going on with the receiver extensions. I was just over at AR15.com, and apparently a few people asked VLTOR WTF when they received 6-position tubes w/rear sceen printing with their EMOD kits, and VLTOR said that they had supply issues, and that they were contracting out to another vendor to supply tubes so that they could meet demand. There was a post there that compared side-by-side a DSA tube with one of the new VLTOR tubes, and they were clearly made by the same vendor. DSA sells tubes for $25, extruded. I sure f____ing hope VLTOR did not give me a "milspec" 6061 extruded tube.

Vinz
10-16-2009, 10:05 PM
Interesting....Im pretty sure you can tell by weight right. I have an older one (purchased last year) and a new one coming from Rainier tomorrow. I will see if they are at least close as far as weight.

you have a link to that other thread?
vinz

missiontrails
10-16-2009, 10:15 PM
Interesting....Im pretty sure you can tell by weight right. I have an older one (purchased last year) and a new one coming from Rainier tomorrow. I will see if they are at least close as far as weight.

you have a link to that other thread?
vinz

Mine is already installed, so I wont be doing a weight comparison. Let me know what you think about yours if it's one of the screen printed ones. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=459734

SMGLee
10-17-2009, 7:09 AM
The VLTOR receiver extensions I have owned in the past were 5-position, and has VLTOR engraving at the rear of the tube. The tube that came with this kit is 6-position, still has the laser etched numbers along the top, but instead of engraving in the rear, it has 3 little white laser etched VLTOR logos.


It is still a very good tube.

missiontrails
10-17-2009, 8:19 AM
It is still a very good tube.

Looks like any other milspec tube, but the reason I bought this kit was because I wanted that robust VLTOR 5-position tube. If the rumors are correct, and this is a "Milspec" diameter tube, but made from non-milspec materials, I'm gonna be pissed.

missiontrails
10-17-2009, 3:50 PM
For the 6-position tube that came with my kit, the caliper measurement at the threaded portion of the tube is 1.1715", and the measurement taken on the rear section of the tbe itself is 1.1480".

http://members.cox.net/mephoto/tube1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mephoto/tube2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mephoto/tube3.jpg

tomd1584
10-17-2009, 3:54 PM
lol. you've had too much fun with that caliper. /sarcasm

sorry about all your problems with your rifles.

missiontrails
10-17-2009, 4:01 PM
lol. you've had too much fun with that caliper. /sarcasm

sorry about all your problems with your rifles.
This will only be a problem if I find out it's a 6061 aluminum piece.

sevensix2x51
10-17-2009, 4:15 PM
hey, if you shoot me your email, i have a half dozen photos of the two tubes side by side... or i might very well be right down the road from you, given your screen name... feel free to stop by with your caliper. but i can tell you, theyre both really nice. i didnt notice a difference until i saw your thread, and looked more closelier.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35405&d=1255824901

Vinz
10-17-2009, 5:02 PM
My order just came in, yeah they are different. I like the older (engraved rear logo) version better. The new one does feel alot lighter. I don't have a scale but you can tell. The one that I have is a 5 position. Rip!

I hope this is just temporary and they go back to the older version because they are a better quality. Stock has a tighter fit too. I guess they have to do what they can to get product out.

Im gonna try to see if I can find one at the gun show tomorrow.

vinz

missiontrails
10-17-2009, 5:26 PM
Now I have a 6-position instead of a 5-position adjustment. Hell, when I had the factory Noveske N4, that came with the modstock, but it had a non-marked milspec receiver extension that was obviously not a VLTOR, but a CMT.

Richie Caketown
10-17-2009, 5:30 PM
It is still a very good tube.



THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ok and since i have nothing useful to contribute , i am out

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 8:42 AM
New info in first post.

pacrimguru
10-19-2009, 8:47 AM
yea, try to get a forged one from them. blaine's a good guy, i hope he can pull through for you. i was thinking of buying another stock from them but now i think i'll hold off until they put the forged ones back in the kits.

dot429
10-19-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm really glad you posted this. It got me to look at my Vltor stocks. The first one I bought, a Clubfoot, has an engraved logo on the end of the tube, however; I've had this one laying around for a while:

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686101156_STRA3-L.jpg

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686101900_ud2UD-L.jpg

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686102779_WPASN-L.jpg

I ordered it from midway:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=661678

It is the EMod kit, and I waited almost three months for it come in on backorder. I had pretty much given up on it and used a different stock for the build I intended it for, hence, it's still NIB.

Because of your post, I decided to give Vltor a call and spoke w/Blaine at length regarding this. He did verify that Vltor outsourced the production of the tube when they were very behind in production and the decision was made to outsource so they could get products to customers. I didn't ask and wasn't told who they outsourced to, however, Blaine said that Vltor chose a high-quality manufacturer. He also told me that all Vltor tubes are Mil-Spec and that they are all extruded, and have always been made that way. In addition, Blaine told me that Vltor stands behind their products and that to his knowledge, they have not seen any broken tubes or had problems with the outsourced tubes. Blaine directed me to the following link as an example of how the tubes are extruded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMhVPId-pRA

At first, when I saw that my tube didn't have the engraved logo on it, I was worried -yeah, I know, I need to get a life, but after talking to Blaine, I'm not going to give it another thought. I've got tons of spare parts and more stocks than I can use right now, so what-the-heck, I'm going to the range later if I can and enjoy life.

Best,

Michael

p.s.

Mission Trails,

I'm in the East County, I take it you are in Santee? Perhaps you could PM me? I always enjoy meeting another Calgunner.

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 1:13 PM
I'm really glad you posted this. It got me to look at my Vltor stocks. The first one I bought, a Clubfoot, has an engraved logo on the end of the tube, however; I've had this one laying around for a while:

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686101156_STRA3-L.jpg

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686101900_ud2UD-L.jpg

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/686102779_WPASN-L.jpg

I ordered it from midway:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=661678

It is the EMod kit, and I waited almost three months for it come in on backorder. I had pretty much given up on it and used a different stock for the build I intended it for, hence, it's still NIB.

Because of your post, I decided to give Vltor a call and spoke w/Blaine at length regarding this. He did verify that Vltor outsourced the production of the tube when they were very behind in production and the decision was made to outsource so they could get products to customers. I didn't ask and wasn't told who they outsourced to, however, Blaine said that Vltor chose a high-quality manufacturer. He also told me that all Vltor tubes are Mil-Spec and that they are all extruded, and have always been made that way. In addition, Blaine told me that Vltor stands behind their products and that to his knowledge, they have not seen any broken tubes or had problems with the outsourced tubes. Blaine directed me to the following link as an example of how the tubes are extruded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMhVPId-pRA

At first, when I saw that my tube didn't have the engraved logo on it, I was worried -yeah, I know, I need to get a life, but after talking to Blaine, I'm not going to give it another thought. I've got tons of spare parts and more stocks than I can use right now, so what-the-heck, I'm going to the range later if I can and enjoy life.

Best,

Michael

p.s.

Mission Trails,

I'm in the East County, I take it you are in Santee? Perhaps you could PM me? I always enjoy meeting another Calgunner.

Michael, very interesting conversation. I have heard more than once that the "normal" RE-1 tubes are forged, and hardened. Follow this link here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=459734 , these substitute VLTOR tubes appear to be identical to the $19.95 DSA tubes. Now wether that translates into future problems- I don't know. Also, last time I checked, extruded tubes are also made from 6000 series aluminum, because it's softer and due to the pressing process. Forged Colt style tubes are harder 7000 series aluminum.

Also Michael, your substitute tube is 5-position, my substitute tube is 6-position, so it looks like maybe 2 different suppliers. Does the thickness of your tube match the thickness at the threads, or are the threads a little higher?

RECCE556
10-19-2009, 1:21 PM
The DSA Tubes are also made from lesser material (6061 I believe) which means the extruded Vltor tubes are probably the same. Milspec tubes should be made from 7071 which is stronger.

I do believe that Colt is the only one who makes FORGED RE's. From what I've heard, the TDP doesn't require it to be forged but it does require it to be the right material (7071).

Either way, the original Vltor RE-1's are VERY different from the ones they're currently shipping with the kits. I'm returning all of mine to Vltor for exchange.

Joe788
10-19-2009, 2:27 PM
M203 barrels start life the exact same way that DOT429 linked to in that YouTube video. Mayyyyybe even by extruded by the exact same company....

dot429
10-19-2009, 5:24 PM
Michael, very interesting conversation. I have heard more than once that the "normal" RE-1 tubes are forged, and hardened. Follow this link here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=459734 , these substitute VLTOR tubes appear to be identical to the $19.95 DSA tubes. Now wether that translates into future problems- I don't know. Also, last time I checked, extruded tubes are also made from 6000 series aluminum, because it's softer and due to the pressing process. Forged Colt style tubes are harder 7000 series aluminum.

Also Michael, your substitute tube is 5-position, my substitute tube is 6-position, so it looks like maybe 2 different suppliers. Does the thickness of your tube match the thickness at the threads, or are the threads a little higher?

Just checked, and the threads are a little higher. What does that mean??

Based on what you are stating, does this mean that Blaine was not telling me the whole story???

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 5:40 PM
Just checked, and the threads are a little higher. What does that mean??

Based on what you are stating, does this mean that Blaine was not telling me the whole story???

If the threads are higher, that means they were "rolled" on, as opposed to "cut." (cutting weakens the area). I have been doing alot of reading, if these are made by "impact extrusion", AND they are made out of 7000 series aluminum, then they qualify as real milspec. The TDP does NOT require forging for receiver extensions to qualify as milspec. 7000 series aluminum will have twice the tensile strength of 6000 series aluminum. For example, Armalite uses 6000 series, whereas Colt, LMT, and CMT use 7000 series. Blaine is now playing "hard to get" now that I have asked for clarification on material.

dot429
10-19-2009, 7:14 PM
If the threads are higher, that means they were "rolled" on, as opposed to "cut." (cutting weakens the area). I have been doing alot of reading, if these are made by "impact extrusion", AND they are made out of 7000 series aluminum, then they qualify as real milspec. The TDP does NOT require forging for receiver extensions to qualify as milspec. 7000 series aluminum will have twice the tensile strength of 6000 series aluminum. For example, Armalite uses 6000 series, whereas Colt, LMT, and CMT use 7000 series. Blaine is now playing "hard to get" now that I have asked for clarification on material.


Interesting... when I spoke w/Blaine, I asked him specifically if he did NOT mind if I quoted him on the Calguns forum. I told him, roughly, what I wanted to post and he had no objections.

One thing that he did say that I remember now, is that the tubes, whether they were outsourced or not, are strong enough that it would take a serious trauma to the rifle to damage one.

All in all, I just don't think that we need to worry. If I was run'n-and-gun'n for a living, I might think about it more, but the occasional class and range sessions aren't likely to be of any issue, IMO. Unless I learn something really egregious about the tube I've got, I don't think it's worth much more bother, do you?

Best,

Michael

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 8:00 PM
Interesting... when I spoke w/Blaine, I asked him specifically if he did NOT mind if I quoted him on the Calguns forum. I told him, roughly, what I wanted to post and he had no objections.

One thing that he did say that I remember now, is that the tubes, whether they were outsourced or not, are strong enough that it would take a serious trauma to the rifle to damage one.

All in all, I just don't think that we need to worry. If I was run'n-and-gun'n for a living, I might think about it more, but the occasional class and range sessions aren't likely to be of any issue, IMO. Unless I learn something really egregious about the tube I've got, I don't think it's worth much more bother, do you?

Best,

Michael

I don't plan on breaking one.... But when I open a box and expect one thing because that is what is advertised, and find something different that is possibly lower quality, well...... We can all but what we want, and I feel like I was quietly FORCE FED something that was not as advertised. I don't think Blaine is going to get back to me about the materials, because he probably knows what I will say next if he says "6061.". I already made the DSA comparison to him, and how I hope I did not get a $19.95 receiver extension in my VLTOR stock kit.

sevensix2x51
10-19-2009, 8:02 PM
I don't plan on breaking one.... But when I open a box and expect one thing because that is what is advertised, and find something different that is possibly lower quality, well...... We can all but what we want, and I feel like I was quietly FORCE FED something that was not as advertised. I don't think Blaine is going to get back to me about the materials, because he probably knows what I will say next if he says "6061.". I already made the DSA comparison to him, and how I hope I did not get a $19.95 receiver extension in my VLTOR stock kit.

so does that mean you need some backup for your cause? i can send correspondence also, if need be.

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 8:10 PM
so does that mean you need some backup for your cause? i can send correspondence also, if need be.

I appreciate that, buy probably not. I'm probably just gong to EAD on this one. Seriously though, do ANY of you think that LMT would substitute a lower grade tube in a SOPMOD kit for ANY reason? I bet not, that's why they are out of stock. Quality first over distribution.

sevensix2x51
10-19-2009, 8:21 PM
I appreciate that, buy probably not. I'm probably just gong to EAD on this one. Seriously though, do ANY of you think that LMT would substitute a lower grade tube in a SOPMOD kit for ANY reason? I bet not, that's why they are out of stock. Quality first over distribution.

dude, EAD??? omglmmuthafao... bwahahaha sorry for your misfortune and all, but lmmfao...... whew.....

dot429
10-19-2009, 9:05 PM
MissionTrails,

You added this to my quote: "Do you think LMT would substitute a cheaper tube with a SOPMOD kit for ANY reason?"

Perhaps you were working more than one tab or something, but if you go back to my last post, you will see that I didn't write that. Could you please correct that?

Thanks.

Also, I would appreciate you passing on what more you learn regarding this, given that I spent 200 bucks on the EMod kit, but in the mean time, I'm not going to worry too much; if mine breaks -if I ever use it, I feel confident that Vltor will send me a replacement. I've got rifles to build, shoot, and then, unfortunately, clean. :D

Best,

Michael

missiontrails
10-19-2009, 9:22 PM
MissionTrails,

You added this to my quote: "Do you think LMT would substitute a cheaper tube with a SOPMOD kit for ANY reason?"

Perhaps you were working more than one tab or something, but if you go back to my last post, you will see that I didn't write that. Could you please correct that?

Thanks.

Also, I would appreciate you passing on what more you learn regarding this, given that I spent 200 bucks on the EMod kit, but in the mean time, I'm not going to worry too much; if mine breaks -if I ever use it, I feel confident that Vltor will send me a replacement. I've got rifles to build, shoot, and then, unfortunately, clean. :D

Best,

Michael

Sorry Michael, this iPhone screen is small (compared to a desktop), and I lose track of where I am sometimes. I corrected it:)

dot429
10-19-2009, 9:41 PM
Sorry Michael, this iPhone screen is small (compared to a desktop), and I lose track of where I am sometimes. I corrected it:)

Thanks.

If you want to PM me please do. If you would prefer not to, I understand; security through obscurity can be a good thing, but I was planning a trip to P2K range this week w/my 9mm AR. Should be a hoot now that I have magazines that lock the bolt back after the last shot.

I get twitchy if I don't smell burnt powder at regular intervals. :D

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 12:52 AM
.......

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 10:06 AM
OK, received confirmation from VLTOR this morning that they did contract out to DSA for receiver extensions "to satisfy demand.". Here is what we got in the kits: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=779569. They said they stand behind their products, what else are they gonna say?

pacrimguru
10-20-2009, 10:09 AM
wow, that kinda sucks.

dot429
10-20-2009, 10:34 AM
OK, received confirmation from VLTOR this morning that they did contract out to DSA for receiver extensions "to satisfy demand.". Here is what we got in the kits: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=779569. They said they stand behind their products, what else are they gonna say?

So what are you going to do? Should we all call Vltor and demand that they replace our tubes w/the higher quality units? I really appreciate your efforts and I too can get tick'd off when I pay champagne money and get beer-budget products, however, I have come to like the ACE M4 SOCOM stocks ( http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#ACE%20SOCOM____-_1-2-4_8-16-32 ) far more than any other collapsible stock, so I might just sell my Vltor, the one in the pictures above.

Thanks for your PMs, I thought you might want to meet at P2K sometime, drop me a line if you do. I may go this afternoon, if the UPS guy shows up on time.

Best,

Michael

RECCE556
10-20-2009, 12:28 PM
OK, received confirmation from VLTOR this morning that they did contract out to DSA for receiver extensions.
Just as I thought....bad on Vltor for trying to pass a lower quality product for the same price. The combo kit with the cheaper DSA tubes should cost less.

technique
10-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Just as I thought....bad on Vltor for trying to pass a lower quality product for the same price. The combo kit with the cheaper DSA tubes should cost less.

but, but, but,....they laser engraved their good name on it:rolleyes:

RECCE556
10-20-2009, 2:37 PM
but, but, but,....they laser engraved their good name on it:rolleyes:
Yeah, I will NOT be buying Vltor's full EMOD kits until they correct this issue.

See folks, I'm MORE THAN WILLING to throw even "Tier 1" brands under the bus when they deserve it. Like I've always said, I'm not loyal to any brand. When the quality goes down, I'll be MORE than willing to point it out (like LMT)

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 4:12 PM
Yep, I just ordered the REAL tube for it, now I own the Modstock kit for MORE than the Emod kit. Yep, I had to EAD. I'm sure the pretty graphics on the included tube will fetch good money on Ebay though.

dot429
10-20-2009, 6:42 PM
Yep, I just ordered the REAL tube for it, now I own the Modstock kit for MORE than the Emod kit. Yep, I had to EAD. I'm sure the pretty graphics on the included tube will fetch good money on Ebay though.

I hate to ask, but what's "EAD" ???

Thanks.

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 6:55 PM
I hate to ask, but what's "EAD" ???

Thanks.

An expression my wife says sounds "very trashy" when I say it. E_t a d__k.

dot429
10-20-2009, 7:17 PM
An expression my wife says sounds "very trashy" when I say it. E_t a d__k.

Gotcha, yeah, that doesn't sound exactly positive.

Where did you order your replacement tube? And, is Vltor going to replace the lesser quality versions? Any word?

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 7:26 PM
Gotcha, yeah, that doesn't sound exactly positive.

Where did you order your replacement tube? And, is Vltor going to replace the lesser quality versions? Any word?

As far as them replacing it, I asked, and here was their e-mail #1 today:

"In order to keep up with the overwhelming demands earlier this year, we did purchase receiver extension tubes from other manufacturers; DS Arms was one of the vendors that we used. It was our understanding that the tubes we purchased from outside sources met or exceeded the MilSpec requirements, and naturally we fully stand behind these products.
If the tube you have is somehow defective, we will of course replace it; customer satisfaction is a top priority.
Again, I regret any confusion as a result of this matter and I want to thank you for being a Vltor customer... please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns that you may have."

After this, I asked them if a $16.95 tube made of 6061 was what they consider "milspec," and here was the second response:

" Again, we fully stand behind everything that we sell... if your tube is defective or out of spec, we will replace it."

These were direct copy/paste from my e-mail. In otherwords, they said nicely to EAD.
*

"

pacrimguru
10-20-2009, 7:55 PM
LOL, well it's also an invitation to send it back to them for a replacement, right? just ship it off and include a note that says that it is out of spec and that you want their real forged tube.

missiontrails
10-20-2009, 8:40 PM
LOL, well it's also an invitation to send it back to them for a replacement, right? just ship it off and include a note that says that it is out of spec and that you want their real forged tube.
Oh ya, regarding that, Blaine there said ALL their tubes have always been extruded, not forged.

dot429
10-20-2009, 9:01 PM
Too bad about Vltor, I had higher expectations of them as a company and higher expectations of their products.

This is all the more reason I am going to ditch the Vltors and go with the ACE M4 SOCOM stocks. I just received another one today and it rocks! It is a no frills stock that is built to last. I don't think anyone could complain about how beefy their action spring tubes are. These things are solid and feel great.

Here is my 9mm AR build with my first ACE M4 SOCOM stock, and it will not be my last.

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/674308428_Af5iB-XL.jpg

http://s-prefix.smugmug.com/photos/674304405_G7rhj-XL.jpg

Anyone want to buy my Vltor EMod that I posted earlier? :D

akjunkie
10-20-2009, 9:58 PM
Does anyone know if the Stock Sets from Rock River Arms is Mil Spec or Commercial?

Over the years i've bought M4 stock sets from Bushmaster, Tapco, and RRA.

All were listed as Mil Spec. I'm in the market for an Extension Tube (stocking up on spare parts)

And now i see this...

Now i'm not sure what kinda Ext Tube i should buy.. Mil spec or Commercial.

http://store.a51tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_67_74_217&products_id=1438

technique
10-20-2009, 10:03 PM
the new one is Commercial Only...I don't know about the rest.

RECCE556
10-20-2009, 10:06 PM
The RRA tubes I've seen on their guns are commercial size and commercial grade.

BTW folks, LMT's REs are also extruded but I believe they follow the MILSPEC and make it with 7000 series aluminum (not 6000 series). LMT also DFL's them. Hopefully, they haven't lowered their QC standards on their RE's like they have on some of their other products.

akjunkie
10-20-2009, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the FAST responses.

Guess i should've asked in the previous post.. how bout Bushmaster? Mil spec or Commercial?

RECCE556
10-21-2009, 2:19 AM
Last I saw, the bushy's were commercial but I don't think there's a OLL bushy (except that plastic POS)....go to BCM if you want to mail order a MILSPEC size stock set (and/or receiver extension). Where are you located? Maybe I can direct to a good shop...

akjunkie
10-21-2009, 4:06 AM
I'm in Southern Cali. (L.A area).

Well, if both my Bushmaster and RRA stock sets are "Commericial size" i guess i need to order a Commericial tube then.

Mil spec tube and Commercial stock = Wobble?

thanks everyone for their input.

missiontrails
10-21-2009, 5:44 AM
The RRA tubes I've seen on their guns are commercial size and commercial grade.

BTW folks, LMT's REs are also extruded but I believe they follow the MILSPEC and make it with 7000 series aluminum (not 6000 series). LMT also DFL's them. Hopefully, they haven't lowered their QC standards on their RE's like they have on some of their other products.

Believe it or not, it's very difficult to find forged RE's, not even all Colt RE's are forged. The key is in the material, and the key is impact extrusion. CMT's are also extruded, and sometimes Colt buys those. Of course 6061 tubes are not going to break, but an elite maker of rifle parts/accessories should not have "bait and switched" customers with their kits by substituting parts that we can all identify as being the CHEAPEST possible. From a PR/reputation standpoint, forum threads like this and on AR15.com can get searched for years on google. The worst part about all of this is that VLTOR told me that now they are back to using the normal tubes again, and at the same time offered nothing along the way of an exchange for mine. The problem is there are still many altered kits floating around out there in stock at online and other vendors.

RECCE556
10-21-2009, 5:21 PM
Well, if both my Bushmaster and RRA stock sets are "Commericial size" i guess i need to order a Commericial tube then.

Mil spec tube and Commercial stock = Wobble?

thanks everyone for their input.

Yes, a Commercial stock on a MILSPEC tube will rattle/wobble. I would recommend just buying a complete MILSPEC stock kit and getting rid of the commercial kit altogether.

japps
10-25-2009, 9:19 AM
missiontrails,

did you ever get an answer to what material was being used? 6061 or 7075? I just ordered the same stock you have from Bravo Company and it came with the "cheaper" extension tube. I'm dissappointed, but don't know what recourse we have...if it measures out the same, Vltor will just claim that it's all within milspec and no exchange. However, I would try an exchange if it was confirmed that the old RE-1's used 7075 and these cheap replacements use 6061. Whatever the outcome, I'm very dissappointed with Vltor over this

dieselpower
10-25-2009, 9:52 AM
I am not supporting what Vltor did, but this is not the first time a manufacturer has done this. I have been warning people for a long time about commercial grade "mil-spec" parts. People have been using the term "mil-spec" to state size of the tube. This opens the door to crush some coke cans into the size of a "mil-spec" tube and say its mil-spec.

I have said this 1000 times...........
I will take a Commercial sized tube made by LaRue, over a Mil-spec tube made by an unknown source.

This is one case where "size truly doesn't matter"....LOL

fliparch
10-25-2009, 11:15 AM
How ironic that I could NOT get a full EMod kit when I bought mine earlier this year, so I bought the tube separately from Bravo...glad I did.

japps
10-27-2009, 1:37 PM
I talked to Vltor today and Blaine stated that the extender tubes they are shipping seperately are the old (good) 7075 type. So although I purchased a Modstock kit already, I shelled out the additional $40 for another (correct) extender tube. I just know how anal I am and that I wouldn't have been happy with the cheaper replacement tube. I am dissappointed that Vltor would not give me a deal on the extender tube...I figured at least they could have let it go at cost considering the baiit & switch feeling I have. All in all it seems like Vltor has some killer products, but this really makes me think that their customer service needs an overhaul.

missiontrails
10-27-2009, 4:22 PM
missiontrails,

did you ever get an answer to what material was being used? 6061 or 7075? I just ordered the same stock you have from Bravo Company and it came with the "cheaper" extension tube. I'm dissappointed, but don't know what recourse we have...if it measures out the same, Vltor will just claim that it's all within milspec and no exchange. However, I would try an exchange if it was confirmed that the old RE-1's used 7075 and these cheap replacements use 6061. Whatever the outcome, I'm very dissappointed with Vltor over this

I received an e-mail from their marketing manager, Blaine was CC'ed, and he said definately 6061. They offered nothing in terms of an exchange. The imposter looked like nice quality, would probably never fail, but the surprise switch was BS. I'm using a Stag/CMT tube with my stock.

japps
10-27-2009, 4:35 PM
yeah...Blaine only kept saying the typical "we will only replace the tube if it is defective". And he confirmed that the RE-1 was 7075...So I basically caved and bought the correct tube and paid an additional $40. I wasn't really thinking that they would do an outright replacement...but was hoping for the correct RE-1 tube at cost...maybe $25 or so. Crappy customer service. I can only hope that in the future this somehow bites them in the *****. But then I suck for being a Vltor whore and having to have their stuff. *sigh*

missiontrails
10-29-2009, 8:16 AM
I'm using a Stag/CMT tube. I e-mailed Stag and asked what material theirs are extruded from, Answer: 7075. Definately milspec.

The Duke
02-10-2010, 11:17 AM
yeah...Blaine only kept saying the typical "we will only replace the tube if it is defective". And he confirmed that the RE-1 was 7075...So I basically caved and bought the correct tube and paid an additional $40. I wasn't really thinking that they would do an outright replacement...but was hoping for the correct RE-1 tube at cost...maybe $25 or so. Crappy customer service. I can only hope that in the future this somehow bites them in the *****. But then I suck for being a Vltor whore and having to have their stuff. *sigh*

I received similar poor customer service from Blaine. That guy has major PMS. You catch him on the right day and he's your best friend. But you call with a tough question or have a problem and you might even get YELLED AT! It's unacceptable. Calgun buyers can do better than to put up with that.