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new1911
10-16-2009, 7:32 AM
Greetings everyone!

Quick question about the CA laws regarding AR: My father owns an AR-15 pre-ban purchased and registered in 1993. He no longer fires it and I was wondering what the CA AR laws are as far as transfer of ownership between immediate family members? Can I take legal possession of the assault rifle? TIA

fairfaxjim
10-16-2009, 7:34 AM
Not if you are in CA. Can only be sold to AW dealer or transferred out of state.

wash
10-16-2009, 7:40 AM
Unless he was listed on the registration, then he could inherit the rifle.

new1911
10-16-2009, 8:58 AM
bummer...but thanks for the quick replies!

trykp
10-16-2009, 9:09 AM
just curious, what kind of make AR is it? by assault rifle, this actually has all evil features, detacheable mag, and 30rd magazine?

Decoligny
10-16-2009, 9:14 AM
If it is an AW because it has a listed lower, simply have your father remove the lower and replace it with an OLL. Then have him store the listed lower out of State. He could then transfer ownership of the OLL firearm to you.

ac427cpe
10-16-2009, 9:15 AM
Could the OP buy his own OLL with a bullet button, some 10 round mags, and just use all the other parts off of his dad's rifle?

wash
10-16-2009, 9:16 AM
Oh, if the receiver isn't listed, you could make the rifle a non-AW but CA needs more RAW's, not less.

The other option is to buy an OLL and swap parts to make a non-AW that you can own.

I would suggest leaving the RAW lower mostly complete, an LPK is pretty cheap...

wildhawker
10-16-2009, 9:54 AM
Someone with a better memory than I should please correct me if I'm wrong, but being that the OP stated it was "registered in 1993" I'm thinking it fell outside the original RR reg period and wondering if it's truly a RAW.

new1911
10-16-2009, 11:19 AM
http://i2.photoblog.com/photos8/52320-1255718379-0.jpg

Colt Sporter Match HBar

Pardon my ignorance but what's RAW and LPK?

CWM4A1
10-16-2009, 11:29 AM
RAW: Registered Assault Weapon
LPK: Lower Parts Kit, basically fire control group of the lower, plus some other parts (pistol grip, springs, detents, etc.).

Since your gun is a Sporter and not Colt AR-15 series that was named in 1989 CA AW ban, it's likely the gun is NOT registered based on the 2000 SB23 Ban. The paperwork and back-ground check at the time of purchase is NOT AW registration!!! Check with your dad to see if he did register it again as assault weapon by Y2K. If not, you are in possession of an unregistered AW and you need to at least get the lower out of state ASAP.

Edit to add: The lower parts kit on your Colt Sporter, at least the hammer and trigger cannot be used on other OLL as the pin size is different, so most likely you will need to purchase a new LPK if you buy an OLL.

CaliforniaCarry
10-16-2009, 11:45 AM
If not, you are in possession of an unregistered AW and you need to at least get the lower out of state ASAP.

Um... please don't listen to this.

If this is, in fact, a registered assault weapon (not just a registered rifle, but actually registered as an assault weapon), then the below doesn't apply, and you can ignore it.

If the lower is listed, you need to IMMEDIATELY STRIP THE LOWER, AND CONTACT A LAWYER ASAP TO ARRANGE FOR SURRENDER TO LAW ENFORCEMENT. My understanding is that if this is done correctly you don't need to fear any charges. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REMOVE AN UNREGISTERED LISTED LOWER FROM THE STATE. If you're caught with it, you'll be popped for transporting an unregistered AW. That's a felony. Say goodbye to your gun rights forever.

If the lower is NOT listed, you need to IMMEDIATELY RENDER THE WEAPON A NON-AW. The quickest way to do this is to separate the upper from the lower. Do not reassemble the rifle until you have either removed all the "evil" features from it (flash hider and pistol grip, in your case), or installed a bullet button in the lower. If you go the bullet button route, DO NOT USE THE RIFLE WITH MAGS WHICH HOLD MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS. Doing so triggers and alternate definition of "assault weapon", and the rifle would be just as illegal as it probably is now. Note that doing this will not erase the prior crime of possessing an unregistered AW, but it will stop the continuing crime. If you're asked about the situation by law enforcement, keep your mouth shut and tell them to talk to your lawyer.

wash
10-16-2009, 11:46 AM
If it's not registered as an AW and it's not listed, he could get a bullet button and keep it as is. I'm not sure if the Sporter is listed, look it up.

new1911
10-16-2009, 11:52 AM
thanks again for the quick replies. Just spoke with him and yes the rifle was registered as an AW prior to 2000.

I guess i'll be sticking to handguns for now..
:25: ca gun laws

dantodd
10-16-2009, 12:54 PM
thanks again for the quick replies. Just spoke with him and yes the rifle was registered as an AW prior to 2000.

I guess i'll be sticking to handguns for now..
:25: ca gun laws

As others have said you can buy a new lower receiver and lower parts kit plus a bullet button and hang your dads stock, upper, etc. on the lower and have a working AR completely legal (as long as you use 10 rd. magazines) for less than $300.

SKSer
10-16-2009, 1:45 PM
thanks again for the quick replies. Just spoke with him and yes the rifle was registered as an AW prior to 2000.

I guess i'll be sticking to handguns for now..
:25: ca gun laws

This guy is new and he probably does not understand that he can legally own an AR-15 in california. Lets try and explain it to him as if he is unaware of the current OLL frenzy. First when we say OLL what this means is a lower reciever that is not on the banned list, in which is legal to own in california by any gun owner. OLL means Off List Lower. 1 example of these would be a Stag-15 (my personal fav), If you purchase one of these lowers, you can own it as long as it is does not meet the generic assault weapon characteristics :

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.php

the way that most of us complies with this is by getting a part called a bullet button, after you install this, then your magazine cannot be released without the use of a tool : "1.A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: " when you take away the ability to accept a detachable mag, then you can have all the so called "evil" features. pistol grip, flash suppressor, etc... Just make sure you get a 10 round magazine. They sell magazines that are 10/30's meaning they look like a 30 rounder, but only hold 10.

So what everyone here is suggesting you do, which is the absolute best idea, is for you to purchase a stripped lower reciever from a gun store, a Stag-15 averages for about 195.00 plus dros, but you dont have to go with that one, there are about 20 different current lower reciever:

http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=32

This is the actual long gun, it has the serial number, and it is what all the parts connect to, and is what has to be dros'ed through a gunstore. As stupid as it is you still have to wait the 10 days just like a regular gun. Then some one mentioned you need a Lower parts kit because the colt lower parts are different and wont fit in the Stag lower, this includes stuff like the trigger hammer disconector etc. These are about 50 bucks. A bullet button, about 30 bucks. Then you take all the other parts off the colt and attach them to the Stag lower, the upper and barrel the buttstock and buffer assembly, this is very easy and can be done in about 15 to 20 minutes, these rifles were made to be easy to take apart. Then in the end what you will have is your most of your dads rifle but dros'ed to you on your reciever. Let us know where your located and we will direct you to a gun store that carries lower recievers. PM me if you need more details.

wildhawker
10-16-2009, 1:58 PM
To clarify, a lower is not a rifle nor are long guns registered in CA.

trykp
10-16-2009, 1:59 PM
Oh colt Hbar? aren't those off list? i remember one model of colt lower actually legal here. hbarA3 or something.

by the way, I'm assuming you guys had your 30rd magazines before the 2001 ban on high capacity magazines took affect. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but technically you can still use them (your dad at least)

If you got the magazines after January 1st 2001, you have a problem IF they can prove it. You'd probably be approached and asked questions using a 30rd mag anyhow.

bwiese
10-16-2009, 2:01 PM
O

If you got the magazines after January 1st 2001, you have a problem IF they can prove it. You'd probably be approached and asked questions using a 30rd mag anyhow.

WRONG. You're one year late.
The ban on hicap magazines began 1/1/2000.

bwiese
10-16-2009, 2:03 PM
To clarify, a lower is not a rifle nor are long guns registered in CA.

Yes, a listed lower is most probably defendably not an AW.

The ideal is to not get to that point. If you have an unregistered listed lower, contact an attorney to arrange its disposal.

trykp
10-16-2009, 2:13 PM
WRONG. You're one year late.
The ban on hicap magazines began 1/1/2000.

Ah..thanks, thats what i meant :p

wildhawker
10-16-2009, 2:14 PM
WRONG. You're one year late.
The ban on hicap magazines began 1/1/2000.

Looks like someone didn't get their Y2K patch...

new1911
10-16-2009, 2:16 PM
thanks for the advices. Quite a bit to digest but I understand the basis of building a legal rifle after browsing through all the links in this forum now.

sandsnow
10-16-2009, 2:28 PM
Ok this may be a dumb question, but why can't he just cut the listed lower into a couple pieces with a hacksaw?

mej16489
10-16-2009, 2:34 PM
Every time a RAW is destroyed, God kills a kitten :(

Build an entire new Lower Receiver including Bullet Button and stock. Get yourself some 10round mags.

Your father keeps his registered AW.
You both 'share' the upper receiver assembly.

SKSer
10-16-2009, 2:36 PM
To clarify, a lower is not a rifle nor are long guns registered in CA.

corrected, changed registered to drosed, and rifle to long gun

cessna182k
10-16-2009, 3:13 PM
Ok this may be a dumb question, but why can't he just cut the listed lower into a couple pieces with a hacksaw?

I was wondering the same thing, If someone had the remnants of a sawed up sporter (unreg'd) lower hanging around, is there any legal neccesity do do anything further? would it be better to have a record of it being destroyed?

fd15k
10-16-2009, 3:20 PM
Would cutting lower in half qualify as disposal ?

Yes, a listed lower is most probably defendably not an AW.

The ideal is to not get to that point. If you have an unregistered listed lower, contact an attorney to arrange its disposal.

lorax3
10-16-2009, 3:23 PM
Heh, edited.

wildhawker
10-16-2009, 3:34 PM
Lorax, I think you may be confusing comments with revisions and misinterpreting context.

lorax3
10-16-2009, 3:43 PM
Lorax, I think you may be confusing comments with revisions and misinterpreting context.

Ah, yeah. Gotcha. Never saw the original.

wash
10-16-2009, 3:46 PM
Still, if it's a RAW, just assemble an off list lower for yourself and use your dad's upper.

There is no reason for your dad to destroy a perfectly good RAW lower.

If the lower isn't a listed model, he could ask the DOJ to remove it from the registry, then it becomes any other OLL but it will never be able to be an AW again (it must be featureless or fixed magazine). Some people would consider this ruining a perfectly good RAW.

bwiese
10-16-2009, 4:14 PM
I am unclear if the OP's dad's gun is truly a registered AW.

He says it was registered in 1993. The DOJ did have registration open then (IIRC) as a "catch up" reg period for Roberti-Roos AWs.

It's somewhat unlikely this is a reg'd AW - as I understand it, DOJ refused to register non-Colt-AR15-marked rifles in general, though I am aware that a few did get registered as AWs back in the early 90s.

bigcalidave
10-16-2009, 6:31 PM
I doubt it's registered to the point of the registration letter some of us have...