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OutlawDon
10-15-2009, 9:20 PM
in 7.62 flavor.

Keep your internet tough guy crap out of my thread this time!!!...don't need to get this one closed again like last time acting like kids on a playground! Grow up...we're on the same team.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39537&highlight=costa

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Battle%20Rifle/image002-7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Battle%20Rifle/image002-6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Battle%20Rifle/image001-16.jpg



And read this about someone very inspirational!...

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38540

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/TRICON%20CC1%20Class/TRICON%20Forum%20Pics/IMG_8494.jpg

technique
10-15-2009, 9:35 PM
Glad we get to do it again....


I needs one!

pacrimguru
10-15-2009, 9:42 PM
great stories, everyone needs to read those.


ok, now back to the important things in life. KAC rifles. i want one.

Sunshine
10-15-2009, 9:44 PM
I like chris' beard

technique
10-15-2009, 9:48 PM
I like chris' beard

its made of Kevlar:)

dchang0
10-15-2009, 9:50 PM
Um, OutlawDon: is there some particular goal you're trying to accomplish or question you want answered with this thread?

OutlawDon
10-15-2009, 9:56 PM
Um, OutlawDon: is there some particular goal you're trying to accomplish or question you want answered with this thread?

No goal or question. Simply sharing something new, inspirational (in regards to the disabled soldier) and cool with the calguns dudes. Why? Is that ok?

The original thread was closed because a couple of guys started threatening each other to meet in real life to duke it out UFC style on the next pay per view for $49.99. Basically, my thread was hijacked.

That is all.

Vinz
10-15-2009, 9:58 PM
man, theres alot of antimosity here lately.

good stuff. Everyone likes pictures.

I wonder if his beard gets caught in the stocks like mine does. Or does it simply cut the plastic when he pulls back. :D

Vinz

technique
10-15-2009, 10:00 PM
No goal or question. Simply sharing something new and cool with the calguns dudes. Why? Is that ok?

The original thread was closed because a couple of guys started threatening each other to meet in real life to duke it out UFC style on the next pay per view. Basically, my thread was hijacked.

That is all.


Without an objective...thats usually what happens...a hijack. There isn't much of a topic to stay on...it went from KAC to Costa to Military experiance to Imma kick yo ***!!!:D

So what topic should we stick with in this one? Discussing the SR25, Chris Costa or the wounded soldier? It will help it from entering uncharted waters.:)

OutlawDon
10-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Without an objective...thats usually what happens...a hijack. There isn't much of a topic to stay on...it went from KAC to Costa to Military experiance to Imma kick yo ***!!!:D

So what topic should we stick with in this one? Discussing the SR25, Chris Costa or the wounded soldier? It will help it from entering uncharted waters.:)

My objective is the badassness of that gun and me wants one! That is all!

tomd1584
10-15-2009, 10:07 PM
How about magpul getting the QD adapter out for the ACS!

dot429
10-15-2009, 10:10 PM
No goal or question. Simply sharing something new and cool with the calguns dudes. Why? Is that ok?

The original thread was closed because a couple of guys started threatening each other to meet in real life to duke it out UFC style on the next pay per view. Basically, my thread was hijacked.

That is all.


That's just silly. I wondered where the thread got to.

Those are awesome pictures of some true masters.

For those of you who haven't seen The Art of the Tactical Carbine, Vol I & Vol II, they are well worth it. I wonder if we could have a screening party somewhere? Anybody have enough room in their living room for about 300 people?? he-he!

I've got bot sets of videos.

The out-takes in Vol II are hilarious!

Thanks for re-posting.

badicedog
10-15-2009, 10:22 PM
I'm all for KAC products but whats significantly so different from an Armalite/Noveske build with a custom bbl?

phish
10-15-2009, 10:25 PM
KAC supplies the military

a military contract is usually all that's needed to elevate a mfg to god status

cmace22
10-15-2009, 10:52 PM
I would buy a KAC firearm if they were able and willing to sell to california. i found a pic of a 14.5" noveske build that i fell in love with. IMHO for a battle rifle to short/medium range it would be perfect for me.

Plisk
10-15-2009, 11:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Battle%20Rifle/image001-16.jpg

I think the black guy in the background was in Special Ops Mission.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2176/1003775.jpg

I know, my TV is a POS. :(

slappomatt
10-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Ill say look at all those dead pixels. lol. jk ;)

Bowser
10-15-2009, 11:28 PM
Vickers sling!

joemama
10-15-2009, 11:32 PM
is that a normal hold on an ar with the left hand on the side of the rifle? I usually support it from the underside.

Bowser
10-15-2009, 11:33 PM
competition style hold, very sturdy.

technique
10-15-2009, 11:35 PM
is that a normal hold on an ar with the left hand on the side of the rifle? I usually support it from the underside.

That comes from the competition community...it improves stability and recoil control. Yes, its common...I use it, works great in most situations.

joemama
10-15-2009, 11:38 PM
It looks kinda uncomfortable but I'll have to give that a try next time I hit the range.

dchang0
10-16-2009, 1:19 AM
No goal or question. Simply sharing something new, inspirational (in regards to the disabled soldier) and cool with the calguns dudes. Why? Is that ok?

The original thread was closed because a couple of guys started threatening each other to meet in real life to duke it out UFC style on the next pay per view for $49.99. Basically, my thread was hijacked.

That is all.

Ah, gotcha. Just innocently wondering why you resurrected the thread, that's all. Apologies if my question came across as criticism--it was not meant as such.

Carnivore
10-16-2009, 3:06 AM
is that a normal hold on an ar with the left hand on the side of the rifle? I usually support it from the underside.

First thing that came across my mind. Glad you asked hehehe.

tankerman
10-16-2009, 6:23 AM
is that a normal hold on an ar with the left hand on the side of the rifle? I usually support it from the underside.
Are you an 'Operator'?

SCMA-1
10-16-2009, 7:09 AM
We're all friends here, and even friends can have disagreements and still be friends but why do some have to go over the line and get personal or hostile?:confused: I always remind myself to treat everyone on a forum as if I was face to face with them; that means never say anything I wouldn't want to say to them to their face. It's just a matter of common respect.:)

Back to the subject matter. I've watched many clips of Costa and like his style and energy; as a fellow instructor, I wouldn't hesitate to take one of his courses. He seems like an open minded, progressive and forward thinking individual when it comes to combative marksmanship and is willing to give "new" things a try without forcing his "doctrine" on anyone including his students. We all know that there are many ways to skin a cat, and the "my way or the highway" just doesn't cut it. Also, combative marksmanship and tactics is not exclusive of the military/LE community. Combat shooting as an art and science was and continues to be developed by the civilian shooting community; the best combat shooters in the world are international competitors, the vast majority having absolutely no military or LE background. Furthermore, the best military/LE operators continue to seek instruction from those same outstanding civilian gunfighters; they know that excellence in any discipline is best developed in the free private sector unfettered by government inefficiency, bureaucracy and other limitations. We should always seek improvement and never be satisfied with the status quo and combative marksmanship and tactics is no exception, it is a constantly evolving field and what can be done well now can always be done better.;)

SCMA-1

Ruiner
10-16-2009, 7:34 AM
All I have to say is, don't knock it til you try it. :D

SuperSet
10-16-2009, 7:53 AM
SCMA-1, there's no question that the best shooters in the world exist in the competition community. And you're right that the military community wisely reaches out to the top-tier shooters for their experience and insight into how to shoot a weapon accurately and quickly. One of my buds from 10th group just finished some handgun training from Rob Leatham and learned a lot (even though he said Rob was an arrogant MF'er).
But, tactics and gun handling are separate skill sets and I noticed that you are using them interchangeably. They shouldn't be.

JohnnyRooks
10-16-2009, 7:59 AM
just placed an order.. lol

till44
10-16-2009, 10:07 AM
I want one, hey I just want to shoot it.

4thSBCT
10-16-2009, 10:50 AM
I was checking out a few of this guys classes on you tube and I just have one question. Why doesn't he ever teach or encourage people to learn to shoot from both shoulders? Instead he has them leaning out from behind concealment to the left while they shoot from the right shoulder. This is a terrible blunder, a good shooter should be able to shoot left and right handed and transition between the two.

pacrimguru
10-16-2009, 10:52 AM
no, they do teach off-hand shooting. it's a big part of their class actually.

4thSBCT
10-16-2009, 11:00 AM
no, they do teach off-hand shooting. it's a big part of their class actually.

in his videos he is coaching people while they make this mistake why would he let them do it?

evollep3
10-16-2009, 11:29 AM
what i really want to know is why that brake is so damn expensive

SuperSet
10-16-2009, 11:41 AM
If it's from KAC, you know it'll be expensive. Those guys are just as bad as HK.

evollep3
10-16-2009, 11:43 AM
If it's from KAC, you know it'll be expensive. Those guys are just as bad as HK.

i dont know HK seems to have Wal-Mart pricing unless they sell their brakes for $450 a brake as well

nfranco
10-16-2009, 11:45 AM
what i really want to know is why that brake is so damn expensive
Inconel isn't cheap, nor is it easy to machine.

gunsmithcats
10-16-2009, 11:53 AM
inconel is rock hard material, and is used primarily for building suppressors. It handles heat extremely well. Because it is so rock *** hard, not only is it expensive, it is a pain in the *** to machine.
The Triple tap brakes are machined have ridiculously close cut lines that makes the brake effective and would only work on material such as inconel without losing its structural integrity. I heard rumors that KAC might release it eventually in other steel, but don't expect it to be anywhere near as tough (at least it'll be cheaper.... i hope )

Ruiner
10-16-2009, 11:57 AM
inconel is rock hard material, and is used primarily for building suppressors. It handles heat extremely well. Because it is so rock *** hard, not only is it expensive, it is a pain in the *** to machine.
The Triple tap brakes are machined have ridiculously close cut lines that makes the brake effective and would only work on material such as inconel without losing its structural integrity. I heard rumors that KAC might release it eventually in other steel, but don't expect it to be anywhere near as tough (at least it'll be cheaper.... i hope )

They canned the SS version. :(


... no pun intended :p

Sick Boy
10-16-2009, 1:10 PM
Is it even possible to buy the SR-25 Carbine version Chris is using in CA?

Or have it bought in a free state, a BB added and then shipped here?

dchang0
10-16-2009, 1:23 PM
in his videos he is coaching people while they make this mistake why would he let them do it?

A couple of reasons:

1) He isn't a DI. In other words, he's not going to get up in your face and scream at you till you wet your pants for doing it "wrong." He'll yell, but you can tell by the tone of his voice that he's kidding around, and ultimately, he'll tell you many times that what he's teaching is a suggestion--you don't have to take what he says and use it unless you want to.

2) Even with Travis, Chris, and Patrick all teaching, they can't be everywhere at once. I know that I was fumbling around for a while doing things the old way and trying to switch to the new way while they were up and down the line helping/teaching other people. The videos catch people in the middle of this deconstruction/reconstruction as they undo their muscle memory (training scars) and retrain a new sequence.


I wonder what the recoil is like on that beast of a rifle...

4thSBCT
10-16-2009, 2:32 PM
In this video he was watching standing directly behind the shooter with 100% of his attention. Im not suggesting he act like a DI or get in the guys face. Instead tell the student to try shooting from their non dominate side so they can begin to feel comfertable with it and explain why presenting half of your body to your target is a bad idea. Theres no reason why he should let someone develop a bad habit especially if your teaching a class. If i ran a drivers ed class i wouldnt let the student forget to put their seat belt on before driving....Train how you fight.

technique
10-16-2009, 2:42 PM
Im not suggesting he act like a DI or get in the guys face. Instead tell the student to try shooting from their non dominate side so they can begin to feel comfertable with it and explain why presenting half of your body to your target is a bad idea. Theres no reason why he should let someone develop a bad habit especially if your teaching a class. If i ran a drivers ed class i wouldnt let the student forget to put their seat belt on before driving....Train how you fight.

You were probly seeing this in #1 Basic Carbine, early in the class...
Clips on youtube aren't gonna give you any insight to the class or much of the tactics covered and why.

#2 Advanced shooters gets much more in strong/support so on...

Take the class, or buy the DVDs so you can get the whole explanations given....


The last thread was deleted, so before we get into this stuff again...here are the credentials of both Travis and Chris.


Travis Haley | CEO Magpul Industries Corp.
Travis Haley is a veteran Force Reconnaissance Marine with 14 years of dedicated real world experience including; combat tours in the Balkans, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and other classified locations around the world.

After leaving the military, he served as a special operations and security contractor for both other government agencies and private sector security companies employed by the US Government, including numerous PSDs(Personal Security Details) for well known government officials, military leadership, and foreign diplomats.
The founder, President and Director of Operations of Simply Dynamic Tactical, Haley designed a range of unique tactical training programs tailored to military, government security, law enforcement and private citizens which have become the foundation for the curriculum at Magpul Dynamics.
Currently serving as the Chief Executive Officer for Magpul Industries Corp, Haley regularly participates in classes as an instructor CONUS and OCONUS.


Chris Costa | President & Director of Training
Chris Costa spent 7 years in the private sector at Applied Marine Technologies Inc. and Linxx on assignment with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Risk Management Division (RMD). At AMTI and Linxx, Costa specialized in Chemical, Nuclear, Biological and Radiological environments teaching Police Tactical Operations in CBRNE (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear or High Explosive) environments and providing Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on critical infrastructures for the US Government.

Prior to this, Mr. Costa spent 12 years with the United States Coast Guard, conducting law enforcement and special operations missions in Europe, the Middle East, and South America.

Eckolaker
10-16-2009, 2:48 PM
Anyone want meet IRL and fight?....lol

I had to do it!

:threadjacked:

dchang0
10-16-2009, 3:35 PM
Train how you fight.

I agree, but you're assuming that he didn't already tell the student what he/she was doing wrong.

The amount of info they downloaded to us during those three days was torrential, and there's no way we could've integrated all of that info instantaneously. I remember being corrected on a bad habit three times before they laid off, leaving it up to me to learn at my own pace (or maybe not learn at all--that's up to me). I was so confused/focused on learning other seemingly-more-important things that my mind overlooked the simple stuff they had corrected me on. It wasn't until later that I could go back and integrate all of what they had taught (mainly by reviewing/sharing class notes with the other students and practicing at home and with others).

Remember in the Vol 1 DVDs where Costa says, "I'm not going to come and keep pushing down on your feet (in prone) when they'll just keep popping back up?" So if the student keeps doing it "wrong," they're not going to come over and force you to do it right. They'll work with what they've got and do the best they can with your skill level.

It's a little different with driver's ed, because putting on your seatbelt is a legal requirement here and because driving a car properly is mostly about other protecting people's safety. You can bet your life on it that Costa and Haley got all over our asses for violating safety rules--but they pretty much leave it up to you how you want to "skin the cat" with all the techniques. Ultimately, they are letting each of us "train how we fight" and develop our own solutions to combat challenges.

yellowfin
10-16-2009, 3:42 PM
what i really want to know is why that brake is so damn expensiveThey also charge 25-50% more for their suppressors than the other companies too, for no apparent reason.

trinydex
10-16-2009, 4:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mn4qKC-qzk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrydUsX_Bg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy8I2X3Lho0&feature=related



new vids of the magpul guys

technique
10-16-2009, 4:41 PM
Thats the class that was either in Oregon or Washington I forget...Few CGs members went to that one. You can see the pics in the rifles gallery...

bomb_on_bus
10-16-2009, 4:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mn4qKC-qzk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrydUsX_Bg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy8I2X3Lho0&feature=related



new vids of the magpul guys

Ambidextrous shooting.

Never seen that before. Anyone else here ever try it or use it effectively during training?

technique
10-16-2009, 4:47 PM
Ambidextrous shooting.

Never seen that before. Anyone else here ever try it or use it effectively during training?

Yup...
This concept isn't Magpul specific...Lots of places utilize these techniques.

Eckolaker
10-16-2009, 4:48 PM
HAHA!

"There is going to be a lot of NO-SHOOTS squirming around."

Chris is classic.

I need to take me a couple of their classes.

technique
10-16-2009, 4:56 PM
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Plisk
10-16-2009, 5:19 PM
I love at 0:23 when the left guy goes to the ground and uses the tire to get down quicker.

4thSBCT
10-16-2009, 5:25 PM
guess i was watching the wrong videos

technique
10-16-2009, 5:27 PM
I love at 0:23 when the left guy goes to the ground and uses the tire to get down quicker.

thats my favorite part too, thats Travis and the position is "urban prone" (with a pistol)

You can see it done here with a rifle, though in the fetal position, typically its done as if you were standing bladed, while laying on your side...But I believe he is attempting to use the small barrier as cover.

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technique
10-16-2009, 5:31 PM
guess i was watching the wrong videos

Buy the DVDs, Strong and support is covered extensively in all positions including the urban prone...using a curb (as small as it is for cover).

I got it, but have yet to take #2, but at least I know some what, what I will be doing...just a general idea.

Here is the trailer, there is another as well.
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SCMA-1
10-16-2009, 5:37 PM
Yup...
This concept isn't Magpul specific...Lots of places utilize these techniques.

Yep; it's actually pretty basic stuff. Everyone should know how to shoot long guns from both strong and weak side; should know how to do cross shoulder transitions and have suitable equipment to facilitate the move. Same goes with handguns; I regularly practice strong hand only and support hand only when at the range.

technique
10-16-2009, 5:40 PM
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/kac_sr25_tan_1.jpg

Sick Boy
10-16-2009, 6:32 PM
Damn that is beautiful!!


Is it even possible to buy the SR-25 Carbine version Chris is using in CA?

Or have it bought in a free state, a BB added and then shipped here?

^^ This?

a1fabweld
10-16-2009, 6:35 PM
Who's Chris Costa?

snaggletooth
10-16-2009, 6:46 PM
The mall ninja's idol and wet dream whom they see as the modern day equivelent to Leonidas with his tactical Leonidas Beard. Supposedly his beard allows him to do tactical reloads in a blink of an eye. Supposedly his beard gives him an extra 30 hit points of power. Supposedly his beard gives him the ability to quadrupple taps in the same amount of time to shoot one round.

a1fabweld
10-16-2009, 7:01 PM
The mall ninja's idol and wet dream whom they see as the modern day equivelent to Leonidas with his tactical Leonidas Beard. Supposedly his beard allows him to do tactical reloads in a blink of an eye. Supposedly his beard gives him an extra 30 hit points of power. Supposedly his beard gives him the ability to quadrupple taps in the same amount of time to shoot one round.

:rofl: "This is calguns!!" As he shoots the messenger with a quad tap!

Sunshine
10-16-2009, 7:16 PM
tactical Leonidas Beard... hahaha

DREADNOUGHT78
10-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Too funny!

Mssr. Eleganté
10-17-2009, 1:00 PM
I love at 0:23 when the left guy goes to the ground and uses the tire to get down quicker.

I love at 0:09 when the same guy tries to shoot his handgun but then realizes that he forgot to even chamber a round. :rofl:

JohnnyRooks
10-17-2009, 1:09 PM
so a lot of you guys drool to someone who only served in the coast guard and homeland security?
































j/k :D

very nice blaster..:p