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View Full Version : Rem 700 Tactical range report (quickie)


Requiem
10-15-2009, 2:22 PM
Alright. So I went out to USI in Concord (nice group of guys there by the way, even if their price is a little high for my taste) today to fire my new [to me] 700 tactical .308 for the first time using my handloads. It went better than I expected. The recoil is surprisingly different than my M1A Socom but I quickly got used to it.

Here's a pic of her:
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs247.snc1/9433_156071818395_688683395_2600143_3130123_n.jpg



That square is approximately 3/4" wide, 1" tall. This is the best 3 shot group I got. The load was:
IMR 4895 41.3 grains
!75 grain SMK (seated to appx. COAL of 2.83 since I don't have match/competition dies yet)
Winchester LR primer
LC brass case

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/580/img0509s.jpg
The range was only out to 100 yards.
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3199/img0507o.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9776/img0508.jpg

Overall I'm very pleased with this rifle and I'm looking forward to stretching her legs out to 500+ yards... now I need a name for her, any suggestions? Valerie and Roxeanne are already taken by my other two guns :D

swerv512
10-15-2009, 2:24 PM
i dont see any pics- is my computer that crappy???

swerv512
10-15-2009, 2:25 PM
oh, how about IRENE!!!

swerv512
10-15-2009, 2:30 PM
BTW,
are you going off the sierra manual? i'm using 175 SMKs using IMR4064 and i notice that the sierra manual recommendations are low. look at the hodgson chart to get up to 2700+ fps. then you can stretch your legs out to 1k yards...
disclaimer: always check for pressure signs and gradually increase pressures to avoid any:
KABOOMS!
decided to edit this time:
5 shot groups should shoot just as nice...

hd0642
10-15-2009, 2:33 PM
nice shootin, i havnt been able to work up a load like that yet. heres my tactical

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/hd0642/HPIM0228.jpg

Requiem
10-15-2009, 2:35 PM
BTW,
are you going off the sierra manual? i'm using 175 SMKs using IMR4064 and i notice that the sierra manual recommendations are low. look at the hodgson chart to get up to 2700+ fps. then you can stretch your legs out to 1k yards...

decided to edit this time:
5 shot groups should shoot just as nice...

Yeah I thought the sierra manual had low charges as well. I was mainly trying to duplicate the M118LR which [from what I've read] uses 41.5 grains imr4895 under 175smk to duplicate.

Oh, and I like Irene, that's a good name, but it sounds too much like it's from Black Hawk Down.

swerv512
10-15-2009, 2:48 PM
HA! that's exactly where i got the name from...
i shot 1k yards recently and i realize that you need to push about 2700 to get out there consistently and accuartely...
check it out, this list 45.0 gr max and getting a hair over 2700fps. it's compressed, though
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Requiem
10-15-2009, 3:00 PM
swerv,

have you tested 45.0 of imr 4895 with 175 smk in a 20 inch barrel?

swerv512
10-15-2009, 3:17 PM
no, but i shoot 45.5 gr 4064 in my 24" Rem 700 all the time. in fact it's my best LR round at the moment and still averages under 0.5 inch @ 100 yds (5 shot groups of course). best yet is hair over 0.3 inch at 100 yds with the same load. just check for pressure signs and gradually up the charge. you'll be ok.

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 4:07 PM
Yeah I thought the sierra manual had low charges as well. I was mainly trying to duplicate the M118LR which [from what I've read] uses 41.5 grains imr4895 under 175smk to duplicate.

M118LR might actually be 41.5gr of imr3031 under a 175smk.

Here is a quickload pass in 1/10gr increments:

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.241% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.4 98 40.50 2634 2696 53347 6754 100.0 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 99 40.60 2639 2707 53747 6762 100.0 1.217 ! Near Maximum !
-01.9 99 40.70 2645 2718 54150 6770 100.0 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 99 40.80 2650 2728 54556 6777 100.0 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 99 40.90 2655 2739 54965 6785 100.0 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
-01.2 100 41.00 2660 2750 55377 6792 100.0 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 100 41.10 2666 2761 55791 6800 100.0 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 100 41.20 2671 2772 56209 6808 100.0 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 100 41.30 2676 2783 56630 6815 100.0 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 100 41.40 2681 2794 57054 6823 100.0 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 41.50 2687 2805 57482 6830 100.0 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 101 41.60 2692 2816 57912 6837 100.0 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
+00.5 101 41.70 2697 2827 58345 6845 100.0 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 101 41.80 2702 2838 58782 6852 100.0 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 102 41.90 2708 2849 59222 6860 100.0 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
+01.2 102 42.00 2713 2860 59665 6867 100.0 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 41.50 2728 2892 63363 6683 100.0 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 41.50 2635 2698 51647 7010 100.0 1.231 ! Near Maximum !

4895 is a lot slower than 3031 so you need a lot more of it...

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.23% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.3 100 42.50 2602 2632 53938 7127 97.6 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 100 42.60 2608 2643 54323 7141 97.7 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 100 42.70 2614 2655 54713 7154 97.7 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 100 42.80 2619 2666 55105 7168 97.8 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 101 42.90 2625 2678 55500 7181 97.8 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 101 43.00 2631 2689 55900 7194 97.9 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 101 43.10 2636 2701 56300 7207 98.0 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 101 43.20 2642 2713 56704 7220 98.0 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
-00.5 102 43.30 2648 2724 57111 7233 98.1 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
-00.2 102 43.40 2653 2736 57523 7246 98.1 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 43.50 2659 2748 57938 7258 98.2 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
+00.2 102 43.60 2665 2759 58353 7271 98.3 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
+00.5 103 43.70 2670 2771 58773 7283 98.3 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 103 43.80 2676 2783 59197 7295 98.4 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
+00.9 103 43.90 2682 2795 59622 7307 98.4 1.159 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 103 44.00 2687 2806 60052 7319 98.5 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 43.50 2718 2870 63104 7215 99.5 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 43.50 2591 2609 52935 7218 95.9 1.219 ! Near Maximum !

swerv512
10-15-2009, 4:16 PM
ahhh... nice catch!

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 4:27 PM
no, but i shoot 45.5 gr 4064 in my 24" Rem 700 all the time.

That's a hot load unless you are seating them considerably longer.

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.830 inch or 71.88 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.562% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-05.6 100 42.00 2568 2563 51753 7029 98.4 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
-05.1 100 42.25 2582 2591 52674 7061 98.5 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
-04.5 101 42.50 2596 2619 53611 7092 98.7 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
-03.9 101 42.75 2610 2647 54566 7123 98.8 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
-03.4 102 43.00 2624 2675 55538 7152 98.9 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
-02.8 103 43.25 2638 2703 56527 7181 99.0 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 103 43.50 2651 2732 57535 7209 99.1 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 104 43.75 2665 2760 58562 7236 99.2 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 104 44.00 2679 2789 59608 7263 99.3 1.169 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6 105 44.25 2693 2818 60673 7288 99.4 1.160 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 106 44.50 2707 2846 61759 7313 99.5 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.6 106 44.75 2720 2875 62864 7337 99.5 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 107 45.00 2734 2904 63991 7360 99.6 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.7 107 45.25 2748 2934 65139 7382 99.7 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.2 108 45.50 2761 2963 66309 7404 99.7 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.8 109 45.75 2775 2992 67501 7424 99.8 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 44.50 2760 2960 67217 7190 100.0 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 44.50 2643 2714 56366 7350 98.0 1.195 ! Near Maximum !

swerv512
10-15-2009, 4:37 PM
That's a hot load unless you are seating them considerably longer.

2.82 COAL
i chrono around 2750 near 70F. didnt have D.A. readings at the time. i agree that the load appears hot, but primers pockets still tight (every one of em) after 4 reloads, no head expansion (measured with mic), partial FL sizing... help me find a reason to drop the charge...

just shot up in sac last weekend and did a inspection and couldnt find any signs...

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 4:44 PM
2.82 COAL
i chrono around 2750 near 70F. didnt have D.A. readings at the time. i agree that the load appears hot, but primers pockets still tight (every one of em) after 4 reloads, no head expansion (measured with mic), partial FL sizing... help me find a reason to drop the charge...

just shot up in sac last weekend and did a inspection and couldnt find any signs...

I'm just saying you are running hot.
I'm not telling you to lower the charge.

Interstingly enough, QL predicted 2761 for your charge and also shows the pressure at that velocity to be 66,000psi.
The QL pass above was at 2.83" oal.

I find that with different case volumes that quickload will be off a bit, but when you scan up and down and find your velocity, the pressure next to it is probably pretty darn close to reality.
Pressure and velocity directly correlate when barrel length and powder are the same.

Here's a more fine tuned pass:

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.820 inch or 71.63 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : ? IMR 4064 ?, Temperature: 70 F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.22% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.2 106 44.50 2711 2856 62293 7300 99.5 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 106 44.60 2716 2867 62738 7310 99.5 1.144 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8 107 44.70 2722 2879 63187 7319 99.5 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.5 107 44.80 2727 2891 63640 7328 99.6 1.137 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.3 107 44.90 2733 2902 64096 7338 99.6 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.1 107 45.00 2738 2914 64555 7346 99.6 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.9 108 45.10 2744 2926 65018 7355 99.7 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.7 108 45.20 2749 2937 65484 7364 99.7 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4 108 45.30 2755 2949 65954 7373 99.7 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.2 108 45.40 2760 2961 66427 7381 99.7 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 108 45.50 2766 2973 66904 7389 99.8 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.2 109 45.60 2771 2984 67385 7398 99.8 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 109 45.70 2777 2996 67870 7406 99.8 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 109 45.80 2782 3008 68358 7413 99.8 1.103 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 109 45.90 2788 3020 68850 7421 99.8 1.100 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 110 46.00 2793 3032 69346 7429 99.8 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 45.50 2817 3084 72813 7236 100.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 45.50 2703 2840 61060 7460 98.5 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Ok, you might want to back that load down in summertime...

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.820 inch or 71.63 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : ? IMR 4064 ?, Temperature: 110 F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.222% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-02.2 105 44.00 2725 2886 64121 7175 99.9 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 105 44.10 2731 2897 64578 7183 99.9 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8 105 44.20 2736 2909 65039 7191 99.9 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.6 106 44.30 2741 2920 65504 7199 99.9 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.3 106 44.40 2747 2932 65971 7206 100.0 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.1 106 44.50 2752 2943 66442 7213 100.0 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.9 106 44.60 2757 2955 66917 7220 100.0 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.7 107 44.70 2763 2966 67395 7227 100.0 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4 107 44.80 2768 2978 67877 7234 100.0 1.108 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.2 107 44.90 2774 2989 68363 7241 100.0 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 107 45.00 2779 3001 68852 7247 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.2 108 45.10 2784 3012 69345 7254 100.0 1.098 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.4 108 45.20 2790 3024 69842 7260 100.0 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 108 45.30 2795 3036 70342 7266 100.0 1.092 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 108 45.40 2800 3047 70846 7272 100.0 1.089 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 108 45.50 2806 3059 71354 7278 100.0 1.085 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 45.00 2825 3102 74803 7082 100.0 1.067 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 45.00 2722 2878 62945 7371 99.4 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

swerv512
10-15-2009, 4:55 PM
i know you werent suggesting i do anything, and i do appreciate the quickload, thanks.

and i agree its "hot" especially since my ES is nothing to brag about...

added...
71k @ 110F! definitely be lowering when in sacramento when the weather comes around

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 5:01 PM
i know you werent suggesting i do anything, and i do appreciate the quickload, thanks.

and i agree its "hot" especially since my ES is nothing to brag about...

Did you see the last QL pass at 110deg? :eek:

Remember what I said about pressure correlating to velocity.
Watch your velocities closely.
When you see a rise in velocity due to the weather change, look for pressure signs to start showing up quickly.
The first thing you will notice at long range is how much flatter the gun is shooting that particular day.
This is twofold, the heat brings you pressure/velocity, but it also thins the air.
I have seen a difference of 3-4 moa of elevation change at 1k with the same ammo in the same rifle on different days.
Keep your ammo in the shade and out of the chamber until the last moment on hot days or when the gun is hot.
Controlling the heat exposure of your ammo will help your ES.

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 5:07 PM
added...
71k @ 110F! definitely be lowering when in sacramento when the weather comes around

Pressure derived from gunpowder is a scary thing.
It's a geometrically increasing scale between powder charge and pressure/velocity.
So when you are down at medium or low pressures, 0.1gr more powder or 10degrees hotter weather might only give you 20fps and maybe 500psi.
But when you go up to max loads, that same 0.1gr more powder of 10 degrees hotter weather will give you 40fps or 1500psi more pressure.

The key is to keep the genie in the bottle.
You don't want to be around when he gets out.

swerv512
10-15-2009, 5:17 PM
^^^
ahhhhh. i see how it all ties in now. very informative indeed.

"This is twofold, the heat brings you pressure/velocity, but it also thins the air." Thanks for this lil nugget- damn, i learn alot here!

radioburning
10-15-2009, 5:30 PM
"REMona"?

Requiem
10-15-2009, 5:48 PM
Thanks for the advice, ar15barrels. I'm gonna keep my load where it is for now, then once I stretch it out past 500, if I need to I'll amp it up. But since I don't have a chrony I'll stay where I am for now.

problemchild
10-15-2009, 6:22 PM
I had a 700 but as the barrel warmed up the bullet hole would walk up the target like ants. I think if you shoot 3 10 shot groups in a row you will see what I am talking about.

ar15barrels
10-15-2009, 6:33 PM
I had a 700 but as the barrel warmed up the bullet hole would walk up the target like ants. I think if you shoot 3 10 shot groups in a row you will see what I am talking about.

This happens a lot with factory barrels of all brands.
It's because the bore is not straight.
Since the bore is not straight, there is more metal on one side of the barrel.
Metal expands as you heat it so the barrel expands away from the side of the barrel with the extra metal.
This is probably the most convincing reason to rebarrel a gun.

A straight barrel has the same amount of metal on all sides.
Therefore it expands, but it does not bend in any direction.
That's why custom barreled rifles shoot so much more consistently.

Desert_Rat
10-15-2009, 7:32 PM
Nice shooting Devil Dog. as for rifle names I refer to mine as "The Voting Machine"

badhabit90
10-15-2009, 7:37 PM
nice shooting rifle you have there.

may i suggest naming her "Cynthia"??:D

Requiem
10-15-2009, 8:21 PM
Haha, nice one desert rat. Badhabit, cynthias too weird for me. It's the names of some family members... Kinda awkward if you tell them your rifle has their name. Lol

rumblebee
10-15-2009, 8:29 PM
Nice set up! I'm sure you'll find the sweet spot on the loads :cool:

badhabit90
10-27-2009, 4:39 PM
Badhabit, cynthias too weird for me. It's the names of some family members... Kinda awkward if you tell them your rifle has their name. Lol

Lucy??
Sadie??
Mindy??
Remona??:D

Requiem
10-27-2009, 11:15 PM
Irene has been given to her thanks to swerv512
;)

JTROKS
10-28-2009, 6:24 AM
Double tap! Sorry.

JTROKS
10-28-2009, 6:24 AM
9yOEOJ1BARk

M1A Rifleman
10-28-2009, 9:27 AM
BTW,
are you going off the sierra manual? i'm using 175 SMKs using IMR4064 and i notice that the sierra manual recommendations are low. look at the hodgson chart to get up to 2700+ fps. then you can stretch your legs out to 1k yards...
disclaimer: always check for pressure signs and gradually increase pressures to avoid any:
KABOOMS!
decided to edit this time:
5 shot groups should shoot just as nice...

It depends on the rifle. I had one 700P that shot well with 41.4 g of 4046 behind 168 MK. HOWEVER, shooting this load in another newer 700P produced good groups but the load was way too hot - extractor marks on the brass and diffcult extraction. My Lesson learned is to work up loads from the starting point, as even rifles of the exact same model can be verry different.

JTROKS
10-28-2009, 11:13 AM
My favorite is a compressed load using Varget with a 168 SMK seated out just to feed in the mag of my Remmy 700 PSS. I've clocked 2800+ with just a hint of warmness. Accuracy is very good, less than 1 moa and I've shot .5 moa a couple of times using a Bipod up front with the butt on a sandbag. I need to take that rifle out for a spin.

swerv512
10-29-2009, 4:08 AM
IRENE!!!!!!