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View Full Version : My first ar-15 california build reccommendations.


sniper95688
10-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Well i finally took a step in building my first ar-15. i bought a calguns.net stripped lower with cali bear logo. i bought it from Robby Betts Golden State Tactical 916.961.7189 email@ Rob@Goldenstatetactical.com. i had emailed him some questions within minutes he replied with the answers. i even had a question at 11:30 pm and was so surprised to receive an answer within minutes. wow i was very impressed with the service.
ok. i now need a lower parts kit and upper to complete the build. i see many different types but not alot of info on accuracy. i want my ar to be a flattop style, 16" barrel, rail fore end, and more accurate than i could ever be. :D I would like some suggestions for an accurate rifle that i could hunt small game with but also that would be my home defense rifle as well. i know the 16" barrel has some limitations of accuracy but am currently unemployed and have a limited supply of money. i was looking at buying upper parts seperately or saving up for a full upper. i know that matching the barrel to the bolt helps improve accuracy. i am open to your opinions as i have read alot of info and still see that every site has different opinions. thanks for the help in advance and Thanks GOLDENSTATETACTICAL.COM

coop44
10-15-2009, 11:47 AM
model 1 barrel from midway, read the reviews,$145
aero precision upper $70 surplusammo.com
bcg & charging handle $135 Sarco
gas tube $13 from any where
handguards $15 Sarco or anywhere
less than 400 or,

full kit from sarco minus lower, around $450

gotta remember of all the retailers very few actually manufacture all their own, if any at all, they all buy from the same suppliers and package them. It is all a big marketing scam. For instance, there are 5 barrel manufacturers in the US, none of the AR manufacturers will tell you who they get their barrel blanks from, except model 1, they use E.R. Shaw. LPK's are pieced together from many sources, no one that I know of makes a kit in house, granted they may make a few pieces, but never all, a $60 kit may have all the same parts as a $120 kit, no way to tell as all the parts are identical! they all buy their forgings from the same 3 (I think) companies and contract to outside machine shops all or part of the machining work.

All you are buying is the honor of having a "name", I will say that there are some companies that have excellent quality control. But , are you willing to pay an extra 500 to 1000 bucks to have a rifle that will shoot 1/2-3/4 inch better at 100 yards?

sholling
10-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Bravo Company mid-length (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm), with a BCM bolt carrier group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm). Probaly the best way is to order these parts from Grant at G&R Tactical (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26sea rchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM) and have him install the handguard. Bravo Company makes battle worthy uppers and bolt carrier groups.

Justintoxicated
10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
Bravo Company mid-length (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm), with a BCM bolt carrier group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm). Probaly the best way is to order these parts from Grant at G&R Tactical (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26sea rchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM) and have him install the handguard.

Or get an omega rail :)

johnrunner89
10-15-2009, 11:52 AM
You can get a complete Stag arms AR for about $900 and they come with lifetime warranties. I have never had a problem with reliability or accuracy. I know Stag Arms isn't "highly" spoken of but I am sure they will satisfy your needs as my rifle did mine.

sniper95688
10-15-2009, 11:59 AM
i just read about LaRue uppers having sub moa out too 300 yards? any thoughts?

slappomatt
10-15-2009, 12:01 PM
buy a larue and be done with it. all the brands you listed in the poll make mil-spec stuff at best. none of them are accuracy companies.

noveske also makes very accurate guns but larue is a little more geared to accurate shooting. while noveske is a little more geared towards reliability.
both great guns that are very accurate. just specializing in different area's.

then again if accuracy is your ONLY goal then I would say get a jp upper. they are what the serious competitors use. none of them are cheap. expect to pay around 1200+ for an upper and then another grand easy on optics and mounts.

hd0642
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
model 1 barrel from midway, read the reviews,$145
aero precision upper $70
bcg & charging handle $135 Sarco
gas tube $13 from any where
handguards $15 Sarco or anywhere
less than 400 or,

full kit from sarco minus lower, around $450


how dare you build that cheap here on calguns, you will be pummled.

sniper95688
10-15-2009, 12:14 PM
what does that comment mean hd0642. i want something as cheap as i can but i want reliability and most of all accuracy

Dangerpin
10-15-2009, 12:23 PM
I think there is an implied smiley after his comment.

sniper95688
10-15-2009, 12:29 PM
model 1 barrel from midway, read the reviews,$145
aero precision upper $70 surplusammo.com
bcg & charging handle $135 Sarco
gas tube $13 from any where
handguards $15 Sarco or anywhere
less than 400 or,

full kit from sarco minus lower, around $450

gotta remember of all the retailers very few actually manufacture all their own, if any at all, they all buy from the same suppliers and package them. It is all a big marketing scam. For instance, there are 5 barrel manufacturers in the US, none of the AR manufacturers will tell you who they get their barrel blanks from, except model 1, they use E.R. Shaw. LPK's are pieced together from many sources, no one that I know of makes a kit in house, granted they may make a few pieces, but never all, a $60 kit may have all the same parts as a $120 kit, no way to tell as all the parts are identical! they all buy their forgings from the same 3 (I think) companies and contract to outside machine shops all or part of the machining work.

All you are buying is the honor of having a "name", I will say that there are some companies that have excellent quality control. But , are you willing to pay an extra 500 to 1000 bucks to have a rifle that will shoot 1/2-3/4 inch better at 100 yards?

Ok thanks for your info. i dont mind spending a little more on accuraccy but i also need 16" barrel and not many companies have accurracy from 16" med weight barrel. LaRue claims to have sub moa at 100 yard and comments on their site says sub moa out too even 300 yards. i went to the website but its hard to see what they are offering and dont have pictures of what it is. can you send me a link so i can see what your looking at. that price is very good as larue is $1100. what kind of accurracy can i expect from sarco?

Swift Justice
10-15-2009, 12:51 PM
I just built my first AR too and here is my build with prices. Everything except the castle nut and the lower were bought directly from Calguns members by canvassing the parts for sale forum (all prices include shipping):
1. CMMG 14.7" barreled upper with low profile gas block, pinned A2 flash hider, complete CMMG BCG and 10" freefloat Midwest Ind. 2 piece quad rail: $550
2. Sun Devil lower, w/shipping and DROS: $200
3. DPMS Lower parts kit: $55
4. 10/20 Promag in steel: $10
5. CAA CBS collapsible stock with Commercial buffer tube, optional adjustable cheek piece, buffer and spring: $60.00
6. End plate with ambidextrous sling mount: $10
7. Castle nut: $5
8. Magpul MBUS front and rear sights: $75
9. Bullet button and Freelock: $25

You could do it cheaper of course but I got everything I wanted at much less than the stores are charging for a similar setup.

hd0642
10-15-2009, 1:04 PM
what does that comment mean hd0642. i want something as cheap as i can but i want reliability and most of all accuracy

easy cowboy, im just sayn these guys are relentless when it comes to cheap parts because they are infereior and will break quickly. believe me ive been pounded hard before. theres no one here cheeper than i am - i voted del-ton and am proud of it.

PanchoVilla
10-15-2009, 1:19 PM
I am kind of in the same boat. I just finished my lower or I would have thought about that complete kit. Thats an AR for under $700, wow.

The thing I am tyring to figure out is chamber and barrel. My goal is reliability and versatility. So it sounds like I want to go with a 5.56 chamber and a 1 in 9 barrel twist.

Does that sound right? I don't forsee the need to use the heavier match grade ammo in this rifle but being able to shoot the lighter surplus type ammo would be a bonus.

I know I should get a Chrome lined barrel too.


How hard is it to assemble the upper and barrel? The lower wasn't too hard to assemble. Only really had trouble getting the pin in that goes through the trigger assembly lined up correctly. Oh and the kit had a mismatched commercial/milspec buffer tube and stock. :) I spent 20 mins trying to fit that undersized stock on before I called them back. They fixed me right up though.

coop44
10-15-2009, 1:25 PM
i just read about LaRue uppers having sub moa out too 300 yards? any thoughts?

sub moa is sub moa, after 300 yards, while a 556 may continue to go much farther, other factors come into play, crosswind and a pronounced loss of velocity to name 2.

cheap parts, read inexpensive parts, no B.S. marked up parts

I have built quite a few ar's all with "milspec" or better parts(there are no real semi auto milspec lower parts groups, only parts that meet milspec dimensions).

of all of these guns I only encountered problems with my early guns, my fault, not the parts. corrected them easily.

none of these guns did worse than 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards, in fact most did remarkably well.

all were as reliable as any AR. Feed them a steady diet of wwb or ae and they are smooth running machines.

the people who bash "cheap parts"(of which they may have the very same parts in their guns), seem to me, have to justify spending way too much money on an ar by roping everyone else into the same "name brand" trap they have fallen into.

sniper95688
10-15-2009, 1:53 PM
I am kind of in the same boat. I just finished my lower or I would have thought about that complete kit. Thats an AR for under $700, wow.

The thing I am tyring to figure out is chamber and barrel. My goal is reliability and versatility. So it sounds like I want to go with a 5.56 chamber and a 1 in 9 barrel twist.

Does that sound right? I don't forsee the need to use the heavier match grade ammo in this rifle but being able to shoot the lighter surplus type ammo would be a bonus.

I know I should get a Chrome lined barrel too.


How hard is it to assemble the upper and barrel? The lower wasn't too hard to assemble. Only really had trouble getting the pin in that goes through the trigger assembly lined up correctly. Oh and the kit had a mismatched commercial/milspec buffer tube and stock. :) I spent 20 mins trying to fit that undersized stock on before I called them back. They fixed me right up though.

Hey man try this link it give everything you need to know about assembling uppers and lowers. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782&page=1

also sorry hd0642 but i dont think i was too harsh on you but dont think that we need to be so critical of others statements. i am asking for info not trying to bash others quotes. i apologize if you felt me as harsh but was trying to keep everyones comments as civil and respectful. i want to hear from everyone and dont want to scare people off from posting what they do or dont like for fear of getting bashed by others comments. please everyone lets be respectfull if we are quoting from others comments. THANKS ALL FOR YOUR HELP!

sniper95688
10-15-2009, 1:56 PM
sub moa is sub moa, after 300 yards, while a 556 may continue to go much farther, other factors come into play, crosswind and a pronounced loss of velocity to name 2.

cheap parts, read inexpensive parts, no B.S. marked up parts

I have built quite a few ar's all with "milspec" or better parts(there are no real semi auto milspec lower parts groups, only parts that meet milspec dimensions).

of all of these guns I only encountered problems with my early guns, my fault, not the parts. corrected them easily.

none of these guns did worse than 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards, in fact most did remarkably well.

all were as reliable as any AR. Feed them a steady diet of wwb or ae and they are smooth running machines.

the people who bash "cheap parts"(of which they may have the very same parts in their guns), seem to me, have to justify spending way too much money on an ar by roping everyone else into the same "name brand" trap they have fallen into.

So what manufacturer do you recommend then?

hd0642
10-15-2009, 1:58 PM
no offense taken, like i said ive been hammered many a times for my budget minded stance.

Eckolaker
10-15-2009, 2:53 PM
Bravo Company mid-length (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm), with a BCM bolt carrier group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm). Probaly the best way is to order these parts from Grant at G&R Tactical (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26sea rchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM) and have him install the handguard. Bravo Company makes battle worthy uppers and bolt carrier groups.


This^^^^

This is exactly how I got my upper receiver and BCG+CH

coop44
10-15-2009, 3:50 PM
So what manufacturer do you recommend then?

Always been fond of bushmaster for no particular reason, they did do government contract work, don't know if they do any more. Back in the 90's their assemblies were pretty good, I think their carbon 15 was a bit of a mistake, heard of breakage problems. It may have hurt thier reputation some.

But, in general I don't lean one way or the other. If I were to build one top notch quality AR it would be centered around a douglas air gauge premium blank, heavy contour, 20 or 24 inch, headspaced to a G.I. bolt and carrier, That is the heart of accuracy. All the other parts are there for support and operation.

sniper95688
10-16-2009, 10:49 PM
If I were to build one top notch quality AR it would be centered around a douglas air gauge premium blank, heavy contour, 20 or 24 inch, headspaced to a G.I. bolt and carrier, That is the heart of accuracy. All the other parts are there for support and operation.

so i should center everything around the barrel (douglas air gauge premium blank) first? so you talking about a custom built then. i want to keep it tactical too for personal defense. Hmmmm

technique
10-16-2009, 11:17 PM
so i should center everything around the barrel (douglas air gauge premium blank) first? so you talking about a custom built then. i want to keep it tactical too for personal defense. Hmmmm

Your 2 most important items are going to be your bolt, and barrel. I would recommend you spend coin on these 2 items.

Get a Bravo Company BCG and barrel (if you can BHF barrel). Doing that, you are around $550... Budget and cut a few corners after that..Build SMART. There is a difference in CHEAP and INEXPENSIVE.

coop44
10-17-2009, 7:04 PM
Your 2 most important items are going to be your bolt, and barrel. I would recommend you spend coin on these 2 items.

Get a Bravo Company BCG and barrel (if you can BHF barrel). Doing that, you are around $550... Budget and cut a few corners after that..Build SMART. There is a difference in CHEAP and INEXPENSIVE.

Amen brother, common sense dictates.

ask your self, " is an extra half inch of accuracy worth X amount of dollars", replace the "X" with any bizarre amount you can think of.

hate to rain on your parade, but I am talking about buying a BLANK BARREL, threading and installing a barrel extension, contouring the barrel, polishing and lapping the bolt to the extension, cutting the chamber, polishing the chamber. I can do all this for myself a damn sight cheaper than $550.

It's a shame they don't teach basic shop skills anymore.

BiggSean
10-17-2009, 7:13 PM
I'm building an AR utilizing a Daniel Defense M4 Carbine upper. The Daniel Defense M4 Carbine rifle has garnered VERY positive reviews, as has their Omega Rail system.

I got this upper from BravoCompanyUsa.com for only $899. It typically sells for $1299 from most other retailers. After doing the math related to piecing together a custom built upper using a high quality barrel, reciever, bolt, rail system, etc I just couldn't pass up this opportunity.

Here is the link for the upper I purchased:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-16-M4-Carbine-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/ddm4%20upper%20half%2016%2012.htm

coop44
10-17-2009, 7:25 PM
so i should center everything around the barrel (douglas air gauge premium blank) first? so you talking about a custom built then. i want to keep it tactical too for personal defense. Hmmmm


If you were here I would smack you upside yo head,Tactical is a frame of mind not a gun

Greg-Dawg
10-17-2009, 8:08 PM
Other: Bravo Company.

bakokid
11-15-2009, 2:31 PM
i built a 16" for a total of $540, then put a buis and freefloat rail on. got my upper (kit everything less stripped lower) for 389 from blackthorneproduct.com (ad in shotgun news) with winchester 55gr (3131) it shot some 1moa groups before freefloat. after freefloat my wife coulda had a 3/4in group but she thought she was off and adjusted her point of aim.