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C.G.
04-04-2005, 8:15 PM
Does one have to register a homebuilt rifle and if so, is it the same procedure as a production rifle? Tried to find the answer, but didn't see it. Thanks in advance.

LongBch_SigP226
04-04-2005, 9:51 PM
You probably need to be more specific.

1) Is it short barrel rifle?
2) Is it Assault Weapon (i.e. AR15, AK47, etc.)?
3) Is it fully auto rifle?
4) Is it bolt action rifle?
5) Is it FAB10 or fixed mag AR style rifle?
6) Is it pump action rifle?

Are you talking in Federal (ATF) level or
State level (CA DOJ)?

-hanko
04-04-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by DingChavez:
You probably need to be more specific.

1) Is it short barrel rifle?
2) Is it Assault Weapon (i.e. AR15, AK47, etc.)?
3) Is it fully auto rifle?
4) Is it bolt action rifle?
5) Is it FAB10 or fixed mag AR style rifle?
6) Is it pump action rifle?

Are you talking in Federal (ATF) level or
State level (CA DOJ)?
OK, 1 & 3 are federal felonies (not to forget the PRK) and are not allowed unless you are a Special Occupation Taxpayer (SOT) ffl via the atf; VERY difficult & even more expensive to get in the prk.

2 is illegal to fabricate if it's banned by name or features in the prk; no federal issues in free states. If the gun's part kit was originally made outside the US (FAK or AJ, for instance), enough US-made parts are required to certify it as a US-made non-sporting gun...again, no-can-do legally in CA.

4, 5, & 6 are legal to build for your own use. They do not require registration federally or under prk law.

-hanko

C.G.
04-05-2005, 9:31 PM
I was talking state level. I think my question was answered. Thank you.

jester
04-13-2005, 3:52 PM
IIRC,It IS leagal to build an AR/AK in Kali *IF* you build it your self completly, as in finishing an 80% receiver(AR) or an AK flat(bend it) and then add the parts kits/upper.
You would NEVER be able to sell it though...

bwiese
04-13-2005, 5:38 PM
Jester...

Please don't do this. You are giving bad info. This has already been discussed widely here, and I know you've been here on CalGuns awhile.

jester wrote:
IIRC, It IS leagal to build an AR/AK in Kali *IF* you build it your self completly, as in finishing an 80% receiver(AR) or an AK flat(bend it) and then add the parts kits/upper.
You would NEVER be able to sell it though...

Please read Calif. Penal Code 12275 - 12276 before you get someone else in trouble. Will you pay their attorney fees or serve their sentence??

Starting with last section of your comment, the ability to sell/transfer etc. is only a tiny aspect. Even mere simple possession of an unregistered assault weapon or 50BMG rifle in California is a crime, often charged as a felony now.

And they are busting for it. If you're really, really lucky you'll only end up losing the rifle(s) and/or getting a misdemeanor charge. Multiple unregistered AWs can really add penalties.

Further:

<LI> ...if you build any semiauto centerfire rifle in CA w/a detachable mag, it can't have a pistol grip, flash hider, folding stock, etc. This is due to SB23, which became active 1 Jan 2000, so the best you can make now is something like an M1A or Mini 14 if mag detaches. (A FAB10 or CaliFAL with a 10-round fixed mag can have a pistol grip or other evil feature, though.)

<LI> The August 2000 Kasler decision, amongst other things, effectively says that all AR & AK "class" rifles - no matter what brand, model, etc. - fall back under the Roberti-Roos AWCA '89 "named" weapon category. That is, if its receiver looks and functions sufficiently like an AR/AK, it is an AR/AK.

Building an unregistered AR or AK clone from 80% lower receiver and then putting a regular parts set on it would be creating a new assault weapon. You'd be violating law in two ways - (1) the fact that it's an AR or AK, and (2) the fact it has evil features like a pistol grip, detachable mag, etc.

The June 2001 Harrott v. Kings County decision did restrict AW laws a bit. It set up rules for promulgation of what items were considered as AWs, and provided for a DOJ-maintained Roster of AK and AR15 Series Weapons. I dunno much about the AK variants (there are a lot, with various names), but the AR list seems pretty complete to me and with no omissions.

In THEORY, if a given brand of AR lower is not on the list, mere possession of the unlisted AR lower receiver MIGHT be legal under Harrott. But Harrott has NOT been tested yet and I would not rely upon it at all; all prosecutions are with DAs and not Cal DOJ and DA might just think he has a case. And, like I said, I have not seen any brands of ARs/lowers not on the DOJ Roster list.

[Also, even if this lower were indeed legal to possess, it couldn't be built into a regular AR, as that'd violate the 'by features' law so using it except out of state would be moot.]

Having a homebuilt AR lower - even without it being made into a full rifle - would probably be WORSE than having an AR lower not on the DOJ Roster. It could be readily argued in court that that's an attempt to evade legislative intent and prior court decisions, as clearly every individual homebuilt AR lower could not rataionally be specifically listed in the DOJ Roster.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

redfox435cat
04-23-2014, 10:42 PM
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but the info and mis info gets kind of hard to shift through. YES I"VE READ the endless pages of legalistic BS
I'm trying to put together an "AR15" kit which at first seem illegal in Cali. From my understanding of the law
As long as I build it FOR me
use a bullet button "acts as a fixed mag" with a 10 rd clip
and maintain the 16" barrel
I can legal posses this weapon with all the evil features to boot right?
So the question from what I can see was never answered and I'm still fuzy on. Do I need to register it and if I wanted to how would I register it, yea yea through an FFL, so what do I tell the FFL? there would be no manufactures stamp or serial number?

gobler
04-23-2014, 10:48 PM
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but the info and mis info gets kind of hard to shift through. YES I"VE READ the endless pages of legalistic BS
I'm trying to put together an "AR15" kit which at first seem illegal in Cali. From my understanding of the law
As long as I build it FOR me
use a bullet button "acts as a fixed mag" with a 10 rd clip
and maintain the 16" barrel
I can legal posses this weapon with all the evil features to boot right?
So the question from what I can see was never answered and I'm still fuzy on. Do I need to register it and if I wanted to how would I register it, yea yea through an FFL, so what do I tell the FFL? there would be no manufactures stamp or serial number?


I'm in the same boat as you. To my understanding you do not have to register your rifle if home built. Hopefully better minds then mine can confirm this.

strongpoint
04-23-2014, 10:52 PM
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but the info and mis info gets kind of hard to shift through. YES I"VE READ the endless pages of legalistic BS
I'm trying to put together an "AR15" kit which at first seem illegal in Cali. From my understanding of the law
As long as I build it FOR me
use a bullet button "acts as a fixed mag" with a 10 rd clip
and maintain the 16" barrel
I can legal posses this weapon with all the evil features to boot right?
So the question from what I can see was never answered and I'm still fuzy on. Do I need to register it and if I wanted to how would I register it, yea yea through an FFL, so what do I tell the FFL? there would be no manufactures stamp or serial number?


a) configuration questions are answered on the AW flowchart; look in the blue navigation bar at the top of the page.

b) no, you don't have to register a homebuild. you don't even have to serialize it unless you're selling it.

c) you woke up a dead thread from 2005 to ask this? seriously, this thing is NINE YEARS OLD.

C.G.
04-23-2014, 11:07 PM
Vow, a thread of mine from almost ten years ago.:eek:

kcstott
04-24-2014, 6:21 AM
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but the info and mis info gets kind of hard to shift through. YES I"VE READ the endless pages of legalistic BS
I'm trying to put together an "AR15" kit which at first seem illegal in Cali. From my understanding of the law
As long as I build it FOR me
use a bullet button "acts as a fixed mag" with a 10 rd clip
and maintain the 16" barrel
I can legal posses this weapon with all the evil features to boot right?
So the question from what I can see was never answered and I'm still fuzy on. Do I need to register it and if I wanted to how would I register it, yea yea through an FFL, so what do I tell the FFL? there would be no manufactures stamp or serial number?



Try reading the LAW as where registration of long guns is required now UPON TRANSFER. You built the weapon, therefore no transfer, therefore no registration.

Legalistic BS?? yes there is a lot of mis information on the board and on the web but you can always go to the DOJ and look up the law like the rest of us do

CSACANNONEER
04-24-2014, 6:40 AM
Vow, a thread of mine from almost ten years ago.:eek:

I started reading it and thought you had gone off the deep end and forgot everything you knew. Then, I checked the date that you asked this.

dantodd
04-24-2014, 12:34 PM
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here but the info and mis info gets kind of hard to shift through. YES I"VE READ the endless pages of legalistic BS
I'm trying to put together an "AR15" kit which at first seem illegal in Cali. From my understanding of the law
As long as I build it FOR me
use a bullet button "acts as a fixed mag" with a 10 rd clip
and maintain the 16" barrel
I can legal posses this weapon with all the evil features to boot right?
So the question from what I can see was never answered and I'm still fuzy on. Do I need to register it and if I wanted to how would I register it, yea yea through an FFL, so what do I tell the FFL? there would be no manufactures stamp or serial number?

This post was originally posted before the bullet button was accepted as a common way to legally possess an AR-15 pattern rifle. I suspect that Bill was referring to a rifle with a standard magazine release in his response.

Bravodigger
04-24-2014, 5:21 PM
Bills post had we sweating for a minute there until I realized this was a necro thread.

CBruce
04-24-2014, 6:17 PM
<LI> The August 2000 Kasler decision, amongst other things, effectively says that all AR & AK "class" rifles - no matter what brand, model, etc. - fall back under the Roberti-Roos AWCA '89 "named" weapon category. That is, if its receiver looks and functions sufficiently like an AR/AK, it is an AR/AK.

Building an unregistered AR or AK clone from 80% lower receiver and then putting a regular parts set on it would be creating a new assault weapon. You'd be violating law in two ways - (1) the fact that it's an AR or AK, and (2) the fact it has evil features like a pistol grip, detachable mag, etc.

OH CRAP!!

04-13-2005, 5:38 PM

Crraaaaaaaap...

Damnit you guys.

rights
04-24-2014, 7:07 PM
Quick answer if you built it at home from a 80% lower you don't have to reg, but if you want too you can.

Murmur
04-24-2014, 7:31 PM
Bills post had we sweating for a minute there until I realized this was a necro thread.

Necro thread - I like that.

Eljay
04-24-2014, 10:45 PM
Does make you realize that at least some things have improved.

redfox435cat
04-28-2014, 4:51 PM
"Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
<LI> The August 2000 Kasler decision, amongst other things, effectively says that all AR & AK "class" rifles - no matter what brand, model, etc. - fall back under the Roberti-Roos AWCA '89 "named" weapon category. That is, if its receiver looks and functions sufficiently like an AR/AK, it is an AR/AK.

Building an unregistered AR or AK clone from 80% lower receiver and then putting a regular parts set on it would be creating a new assault weapon. You'd be violating law in two ways - (1) the fact that it's an AR or AK, and (2) the fact it has evil features like a pistol grip, detachable mag, etc."



That's the point I was trying to get at and that gray area in which I was trying to open the discussion to, I seriously don't think you guys read the DOJ site since it's nearly impossible to navigate. why does it matter if the post is 10 years old?
To the above AR15 type weapon is legal in California unless specifically named
That has been to loophole that generated dozens of manufacturer start up's to make AR15 type replicas. That is also the point of the bullet button. The law states a semi automatic center-fire rifle with a detachable mag is their definition of an assault weapon. The bullet button makes it a FIXED mag therefore doesn't constitute the definition of a an assault rifle.

My original question was trying to confirm the specs since it is fuzzy.
For the most part a 16 in barrel bring the overall length to the 30 inch minimum, the bullet button makes it a fixed mag therefor its just a center fire semi auto rifle that look like an AR15. Can anyone point one in the right direction without tearing one down like their a dumb @#$%. That really is what discredits the whole site. No offense really.

redfox435cat
04-28-2014, 5:12 PM
?http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/awguide.pdf?