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View Full Version : Side Effect from 962 - Target Painted on YOU!


bruss01
10-15-2009, 10:01 AM
So if it's tougher for criminals to get ammo down at Walmart now, is anyone thinking that criminals (individuals or groups) will be following the UPS truck around, watching for any apparently very heavy packages being left? Not to mention delivery people paid to give a call to their shady friends whenever they drop off an ORD package. Plus the old mailbox scam, the day that gun magazine subscriptions come out, mailman gets followed and mailboxes checked - if there is a gun magazine, chances are there is ammo in the house. Not to mention, being followed home from the range after shooting. All they have to do is wait until all the cars are gone (you and wife at work) and then break in and help themselves. Since legit purchase of ammo is going to get harder for them, my suspicion is that theft of ammo is going to skyrocket.

GP3
10-15-2009, 10:04 AM
Yep. Criminals will continue being criminals.

Legasat
10-15-2009, 10:10 AM
Come on, criminals wouldn't deliberately do anything illegal....would they?

jdberger
10-15-2009, 10:11 AM
No - because UPS shipments of ammo won't be allowed (for the most part).

Lone_Gunman
10-15-2009, 10:12 AM
Im thinking it will be a lot less hassle to just load up the crimemobile, drive to a free state (no matter where you are in CA, Oregon, Nevada, or Arizona aren't that far away) load up on ammo, and drive back and sell it to your fellow criminals at inflated prices. If 962 ever sees the light of day I give it till Feb 2012 before we start hearing about the "out of state ammo purchase loophole"

Big048
10-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't worry about criminals raiding your home for ammo. The new law doesn't do anything to stop the bad guys from buying ammo it just tracks it..kinda. If they don't do anything to make the seller beleive they shouldn't have any ammo they can buy as much as they want.
It's like many have said this is only a feel good law for the people out there afraid of their own damn shadow.

packnrat
10-15-2009, 10:27 AM
I can see it now, at the "bug" stops coming into ca. They add to the list to look for "AMMO checks, having dogs sniff your car. Radition dectors ( might have a nuke in your van).

Do not laugh as metal scrapers have been using these for years now.



.

wash
10-15-2009, 10:48 AM
It will just make more "Baby Momma drama" as they say.

Straw purchases will include ammo as well as guns.

A criminal won't care if a box of ammo is $60.00 because they don't use all that much ammo.

CnCFunFactory
10-15-2009, 10:56 AM
It will just make more "Baby Momma drama" as they say.

Straw purchases will include ammo as well as guns.

A criminal won't care if a box of ammo is $60.00 because they don't use all that much ammo.

....this 100% you hit the nail on the head!

Hunt
10-15-2009, 11:13 AM
So if it's tougher for criminals to get ammo down at Walmart now, is anyone thinking that criminals (individuals or groups) will be following the UPS truck around, watching for any apparently very heavy packages being left? Not to mention delivery people paid to give a call to their shady friends whenever they drop off an ORD package. Plus the old mailbox scam, the day that gun magazine subscriptions come out, mailman gets followed and mailboxes checked - if there is a gun magazine, chances are there is ammo in the house. Not to mention, being followed home from the range after shooting. All they have to do is wait until all the cars are gone (you and wife at work) and then break in and help themselves. Since legit purchase of ammo is going to get harder for them, my suspicion is that theft of ammo is going to skyrocket.

this is why I have very unpleasant deterrents inside my house to greet uninvited guests.

Nate74
10-15-2009, 1:35 PM
If 962 ever sees the light of day I give it till Feb 2012 before we start hearing about the "out of state ammo purchase loophole"

Most insightful thing I've read today and sad/true...

XJJack
10-15-2009, 2:07 PM
They do not check the fingerprint against any database so this will do nothing to stop criminals from buying it. All it does is leave a trail so if you have ammo stollen that you bough you are responcable for what is done with said ammo, or at least the labled box. I still don't think the ammo it self is tracked.

bodger
10-15-2009, 2:14 PM
Not really on topic, but a friend of mine worked as a UPS driver for years. He said that by far, ammunition was the thing that got stolen the most while in transit with UPS.

Boxes opened, dispappeared, etc. He worked in a western state that is known for active gunnies, not CA.

armandolo
10-15-2009, 2:23 PM
...I give it till Feb 2012 before we start hearing about the "out of state ammo purchase loophole"

Or the Dangerous ammo list maintained by DOJ. And to be on the list ammo should have a serial number and not explode when hit by say a firing pin.
Come on DeLeon Go for it - you idiot.

rolo
10-15-2009, 2:27 PM
A criminal won't care if a box of ammo is $60.00 because they don't use all that much ammo.

This is so true it hurts. Criminals are morons. A maintenance worker at a yard I worked at in my youth discovered I kept up on the price of precious metals. He would come to my office in between shifts with broken jewelry trying to get me to either buy it or give him its value so he could fence it. I kept giving him the runaround until one day he brought in a box of 20 silvertips wanting to know how much silver was in them. I got so pissed at the months of irritation I blew up at him about how stupid he was thinking there was silver in a box of ammo.

He told me it didn't matter because he only paid a C-note for the box.

Choptop
10-15-2009, 2:30 PM
Why wouldnt criminals just go to the gun store and buy some ammo?

They give their info, put their thumb print on the form, pay at the cashier and walk out the door.

Pretty simple.

steelrain82
10-15-2009, 2:40 PM
so true the cops act like yeah we are all for this extra security measure. than it comes time to enforce it. oh we only have 1 person to handle that and there is x amount of shops with x amount of purchases. its gonna be unreasonable for them. they wont enforce it.

MustangGreg66
10-15-2009, 2:56 PM
Yea, it's stupid to think that simply tracking a sale is going to prevent crime. If there was a background check, maybe that'd do something. Who're they going to pay to go through years of records to try to catch criminals buying ammo years after it's bought. Or would they try to get retailers in trouble years later for selling to criminals, there's no way for a shop keep to tell if an individual is a criminal or not. We all know this law does nothing for the safety of the public, it just burdens retailers, makes purchasers of ammo uneasy and prevents ordering from out of state...

armandolo
10-15-2009, 2:58 PM
I posted this somewhere else. Here it goes:

You guys miss a point. I'm completely convinced that majority of gun control laws that are introduced have nothing to do with reason or public safety.

Our anti gun politicians cleverly disguise anti gun bills as public safety measure with a sole intent of eliminating gun ownership. They can't just say 'lets ban all the guns'. That's a way more difficult of a fight, but in 50 years when there is no ammo, no semis and no EBRs and a list of laws which makes nearly impossible go get what you want, then it maybe way easier. So do not try to reason as to why the bill won't do anything for public safety: That's not the intent.

We need to fight all those bills to protect our second amendment.

steelrain82
10-15-2009, 3:47 PM
im agree we all do but the point is the reason they give and when crime rises they can add more of these bills. if im a criminal and i go to your store and buy ammo, i give my fingerprint right, thats all i do. the shop doesnt run the print. the cops can come the same day for that info so they can run it or maybe they dont check for years if at all. so now i have my ammo and ive done my crime. but they dont know i did it how are they gonna determine i did it. what if its old ammo from pre ab962 say january 31 2011. i wonder how it would work if i had a younger kid but i was previous convict my kid says dad i want to go to the range to practice shooting. so i say sure ill take you. i dont own a gun so we have to rent one and buy ammo at the shop now i have to pay for it and submit a finger print what happens to me down the road if they check. i only bought the ammo for my kid to shoot since he's not old enough.

ZRX61
10-15-2009, 4:24 PM
Plus the old mailbox scam, the day that gun magazine subscriptions come out, mailman gets followed and mailboxes checked - if there is a gun magazine, chances are there is..........
......an armed homeowner ready & willing to spoil your entire day..

Fixed it for ya ;)

CaliColin
10-15-2009, 5:20 PM
If I was a gang member, I'd get my baby momma to work at Walmart and bring home a copy of the ammo purchase list. Now I know what caliber guns are available in my 'hood, the addresses of where they are, and a phone number to call and see if anyone's home. This bill is doing wonders for public safety.

Choptop
10-15-2009, 5:50 PM
If I was a gang member, I'd get my baby momma to work at Walmart and bring home a copy of the ammo purchase list. Now I know what caliber guns are available in my 'hood, the addresses of where they are, and a phone number to call and see if anyone's home. This bill is doing wonders for public safety.

Why? When you could just buy it at the store or have someone else buy it for you?

armandolo
10-15-2009, 5:57 PM
Why? When you could just buy it at the store or have someone else buy it for you?

Yeap, like the baby mama. and with an employee discount too

OG Z
10-15-2009, 6:23 PM
So if it's tougher for criminals to get ammo down at Walmart now, is anyone thinking that criminals (individuals or groups) will be following the UPS truck around, watching for any apparently very heavy packages being left? Not to mention delivery people paid to give a call to their shady friends whenever they drop off an ORD package. Plus the old mailbox scam, the day that gun magazine subscriptions come out, mailman gets followed and mailboxes checked - if there is a gun magazine, chances are there is ammo in the house. Not to mention, being followed home from the range after shooting. All they have to do is wait until all the cars are gone (you and wife at work) and then break in and help themselves. Since legit purchase of ammo is going to get harder for them, my suspicion is that theft of ammo is going to skyrocket.

i wouldnt be worried about it. honestly there are 1 billion easier ways to get bullets than breaking and entering... into a gun owners house. im not worried about it. someone breaks into my house theyre going to get as many bullets as they want.

OG Z
10-15-2009, 6:27 PM
remember guys, the actual real intentions of the government are not for your safety but its own preservation. bills arent intended to make you safer, they are intended to make it harder for you to defend yourself, and minimize us as a threat. us being people with a conscious mind. so when you say oh this bill is a mistake, its a failure or whatever... but it is not, it is going exactly how the bill's writers planned.

Bruce
10-15-2009, 7:28 PM
If 962 ever sees the light of day I give it till Feb 2012 before we start hearing about the "out of state ammo purchase loophole"

That will be next. No "importation" without a vendor's license. Then all ammunition sales, handgun, rifle and shotgun. Reloading will be classified as "manufacturing" and it will require a license; most likely with a exorbitant fee for said license. These people will never stop.

ZRX61
10-15-2009, 9:00 PM
someone breaks into my house theyre going to get as many bullets as they want.

I'd probably limit it to just one magazine load, probably something nasty, HydroShoks etc...

stupidhead
10-15-2009, 9:42 PM
so true the cops act like yeah we are all for this extra security measure. than it comes time to enforce it. oh we only have 1 person to handle that and there is x amount of shops with x amount of purchases. its gonna be unreasonable for them. they wont enforce it.

I seriously doubt that police are wholly supportive of this bill. Considering that tens of thousands of law abiding Californians make ammo purchases every month (of far greater amounts of ammo than criminals would ever buy), finding a link between purchased ammo and a crime would be akin to finding a certain grain of sand in the Sahara. It's just damn unlikely. Police will resort to more traditional methods than hoping against hope that Homie G. Clown decided to buy 1 box of 9mm at a gun shop next door to the convenience store he robbed 5 minutes later.

I'm completely convinced that majority of gun control laws that are introduced have nothing to do with reason or public safety.

Our anti gun politicians cleverly disguise anti gun bills as public safety measure with a sole intent of eliminating gun ownership. They can't just say 'lets ban all the guns'. That's a way more difficult of a fight, but in 50 years when there is no ammo, no semis and no EBRs and a list of laws which makes nearly impossible go get what you want, then it maybe way easier. So do not try to reason as to why the bill won't do anything for public safety: That's not the intent.

We need to fight all those bills to protect our second amendment.

I agree. To be sure, I'm sure some of these politicians believe they're acting for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY)) of the people they serve. Truly, how many of us *want* violent crime to occur? These politicians want to curb that violent crime, and they think that taking away the rights and freedoms of the law-abiding citizens who don't commit the violent crimes will somehow help. They don't realize how foolish it is to ask a criminal to obey a law. I'm sure some of the anti-gun politicians out there would happily strip us all of our RKBA, if only for the fact that they'd no longer have a reason to fear us. These are the ones we need to worry about.

Last time I checked, politicians don't have unarmed bodyguards. There is a reason for this. Firearms = protection. They're willing to strip us of ours while maintaining theirs.

That will be next. No "importation" without a vendor's license. Then all ammunition sales, handgun, rifle and shotgun. Reloading will be classified as "manufacturing" and it will require a license; most likely with a exorbitant fee for said license. These people will never stop.

I agree completely. I plan on stocking up with 10x what I'll need for the next 10 years (which isn't much, as I don't go shooting all too often) by Jan of next year. I don't want to have to make a trip out of state to get ammo (and I'll be damned if I'm going to fill out a goddamn form just to buy some .22 shells).

You're especially right about the fact that they'll never stop.

The following will NEVER change:
Politicians will continue to make dumb laws.
Criminals will continue to break dumb laws.
You and I will continue to obey dumb laws.

Ryan in SD
10-15-2009, 11:08 PM
Come on, criminals wouldn't deliberately do anything illegal....would they?

Nope its against the law to do criminal things!

steelrain82
10-18-2009, 3:37 AM
I seriously doubt that police are wholly supportive of this bill. Considering that tens of thousands of law abiding Californians make ammo purchases every month (of far greater amounts of ammo than criminals would ever buy), finding a link between purchased ammo and a crime would be akin to finding a certain grain of sand in the Sahara. It's just damn unlikely. Police will resort to more traditional methods than hoping against hope that Homie G. Clown decided to buy 1 box of 9mm at a gun shop next door to the convenience store he robbed 5 minutes later.


my police chief is definitley supportive of this bill he publicly announced it in the news awhile back

DesertDawg
10-18-2009, 4:29 AM
I see this as a threat to the gun/sporting goods stores that stock ammunition: (A) The prices for ammo have gone up, and (B) the gangsters don't want to leave their thumb prints for ammo that they buy, so (C) they'll just do "take-over" robberies and stock up by the pallet!

This could cause many gun/sporting goods stores to discontinue selling ammo, especially with all of the upcoming extra things they'll be required to do to comply with 962!

bodger
10-18-2009, 8:37 AM
I wonder how many criminals and gangstas are even aware of this new law or give a damn.

Do they feel they need a lot of ammo? Do they typically stockpile?

I wonder if the Crips and Bloods go to the range or find someplace out in the toolies to practice their skills, putting hundreds of rounds downrange in a session like us legal gunnies do. Why would they risk a bust for illegal possession and possibly shooting in a prohibited area?

It's just a guess, but I think the criminals have all the ammo they feel they need, and know they can get their ammo easily, regardless of any new state law.

joe4702
10-18-2009, 4:46 PM
The amount of ammunition used criminally is a tiny, tiny percentage of total ammunition usage. Another reason these "ammo control" laws are absurd.

Seesm
10-18-2009, 4:57 PM
Stupid people make stupid laws.... And look we all tried to get this NOT to go through and it did not help AT ALL.

LesGrossman41510
10-18-2009, 7:29 PM
there are still a million ways for them to get it.


i just dont want to be harassed in the parking lots of gun stores by felons "hey man can you buy some ammo for me" just like kids wait outside of liquor stores asking 21+ people to buy them beer!!

bodger
10-18-2009, 7:48 PM
there are still a million ways for them to get it.


i just dont want to be harassed in the parking lots of gun stores by felons "hey man can you buy some ammo for me" just like kids wait outside of liquor stores asking 21+ people to buy them beer!!


Prolly never happen. Too many LEOs come and go out of those gun shops and the criminals know it.

Homegirl with no felony conviction goes to Wally World, or they all take a road trip to see their bro's in Phoenix.

Or hell, someone with a felony conviction just goes in and buys ammo. There's no BG check, just a piece of paper in a file cab someplace documenting the sale.

If I were a criminal I would laugh and laugh at these butthead legislators.

joaoalegre
10-18-2009, 11:29 PM
Yeap, like the baby mama. and with an employee discount too

Can baby mama pay that with Foodstamps? It's an essential product.

WeekendWarrior
10-19-2009, 2:20 PM
WWRTW

darkwater
10-19-2009, 3:21 PM
A criminal won't care if a box of ammo is $60.00 because they don't use all that much ammo.

Except for those North Hollywood bank robbers...anyone got a round count on that shootout?

Chief-7700
10-19-2009, 4:02 PM
Just stop asking all these questions! Don't you know that the morons in Sacramento came up the right answers for all of us!!! Control the evil ammo and crime has to go down, the gangbangers will stop killing each other. Not to sure about the crime thing going down could care less about the gangbanger killing each other since that is just pest control

RRangel
10-19-2009, 4:09 PM
Except for those North Hollywood bank robbers...anyone got a round count on that shootout?

That's a major exception so why even mention it? All the more reason for the law abiding to be armed. They might have been put down quicker that way.

What criminals will do today is buy a lifetime supply of ammunition now that this foolish law has been passed. They're not sportsman so that means in all actuality they'll buy very few rounds. The rest of us will be subject to being treated like would be criminals and live under police state tactics because of Marxist inspired legislators like Kevin De Leon.

squishyhead
10-19-2009, 4:13 PM
So if it's tougher for criminals to get ammo down at Walmart now, is anyone thinking that criminals (individuals or groups) will be following the UPS truck around, watching for any apparently very heavy packages being left? Not to mention delivery people paid to give a call to their shady friends whenever they drop off an ORD package. Plus the old mailbox scam, the day that gun magazine subscriptions come out, mailman gets followed and mailboxes checked - if there is a gun magazine, chances are there is ammo in the house. Not to mention, being followed home from the range after shooting. All they have to do is wait until all the cars are gone (you and wife at work) and then break in and help themselves. Since legit purchase of ammo is going to get harder for them, my suspicion is that theft of ammo is going to skyrocket.

What Walmart are you shopping at? I can't find ammo at any of the ones by my house!

darkwater
10-19-2009, 9:58 PM
That's a major exception so why even mention it? All the more reason for the law abiding to be armed. They might have been put down quicker that way.

The exceptions are what make things interesting...without exceptions, any idiot could make sense of the general rule. Isn't that how DeLeon crafted AB962 and got it passed? He tweaked the general rule with just enough exceptions to make it palatable, and added just enough exceptions to make it generally confusing. :D

In the confusion that was the North Hollywood bank robbery and shootout, for law-abiding citizens to have generally been successful, they would have needed more firepower than the responding police had, which would have been exceptional, indeed. ;)

Kid Stanislaus
10-20-2009, 9:20 PM
Come on, criminals wouldn't deliberately do anything illegal....would they?

Not in California.