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View Full Version : MidwayUSA, AB962, C&R/COE


kdm
10-15-2009, 8:43 AM
So, I'm hoping for the best yet planning for the worst...hoping 962 will get shot down by 2011, planning that it won't. With that in mind, I sent Midway an e-mail asking about the C&R/COE exemption clause. Here's their response:

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your recent email. We have received word on this sad news for California. Unfortunately, until we receive an actual copy of the bill and our legal department goes through all of the exceptions we will be unsure how this will effect our sales to California customers. However, all sales will go on as they have until February when the bill goes into affect. I apologize we don't have more information for you at this time. As soon as our legal department makes heads or tails of the bill and all of the exceptions we will have more information for you. I apologize for this inconvenience. Midway will do our best to make this as easy of a transition as possible.

If you have additional questions or comments, please contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM Monday through Friday and 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM on Saturday and Sunday (CT).

Thanks for your business!

Sincerely,

Jessica I
MidwayUSA Customer Service Associate


At least they'll investigate, instead of automatically writing us off.

bodger
10-15-2009, 9:13 AM
Excellent. There's one retailer online that might not ditch us.

xxdabroxx
10-15-2009, 11:29 AM
send them a link to the finalized bill.

shadowofnight
10-15-2009, 12:26 PM
Larry Potterfield ( Founder and CEO of Midway ) hasnt answered back my email yet, sent the minute AB962 was signed by the soon to have no political career governator.
Right on Midways home page on the lower left corner is his invitation to ask him questions...no answer yet ? Midway is one of my favorite vendors for reloading components and equipment, if printed out my past order sheet would hit the floor and roll a good distance...I hope after Feb 2011 ( If AB962 isn't flushed down the toilet by then ) that they will still ship reloading components.

His note...


Please let me know what we can do to help you enjoy your hobbies.

Thanks for Your Business!
Founder and CEO

LarryPotterfield@MidwayUSA.com

jdberger
10-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Larry Potterfield ( Founder and CEO of Midway ) hasnt answered back my email yet, sent the minute AB962 was signed by the soon to have no political career governator.
Right on Midways home page on the lower left corner is his invitation to ask him questions...no answer yet ? Midway is one of my favorite vendors for reloading components and equipment, if printed out my past order sheet would hit the floor and roll a good distance...I hope after Feb 2011 ( If AB962 isn't flushed down the toilet by then ) that they will still ship reloading components.

His note...


Please let me know what we can do to help you enjoy your hobbies.

Thanks for Your Business!
Founder and CEO

LarryPotterfield@MidwayUSA.com

I'd sent a couple of emails to MidwayUSA asking them to alert their customers about AB962 and ask them to call the Gov. Though I never heard back from them, they did send out an email blast to their customers.

slappomatt
10-15-2009, 1:09 PM
why would they not ship reloading components? that has nothing to do with this lame brain bill.

Flopper
10-15-2009, 1:29 PM
Even if we don't get Midway to sell to those of us with an FFL 03 and a COE, we'll have plenty of other vendors who will.

This is exactly what happened somewhat recently with out of state vendors with firearms and firearms parts sales. Originally there were a large number of vendors that wanted nothing to with CA, and all of a sudden they started selling to us again because they realized they were missing out on a huge market.

XJJack
10-15-2009, 2:11 PM
why would they not ship reloading components? that has nothing to do with this lame brain bill.

Includes projectiles. (bullets)

Swatter911
10-15-2009, 2:13 PM
Includes projectiles. (bullets)

I think you're mistaken. That was exisitng law pertaining to prohibited persons. AB962 did not change that.

QuickOnTheDraw
10-15-2009, 5:11 PM
I think you're mistaken. That was exisitng law pertaining to prohibited persons. AB962 did not change that.

I believe you are incorrect or mistaken, please provide supporting documentation to your claim.

(c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

curtisfong
10-15-2009, 5:30 PM
(c) For purposes of this section

Which pertains to prohibited persons.

crowbar
10-15-2009, 6:54 PM
Too bad the ammo distributors / manufacturers will probably continue to supply California law enforcement agencies. Not that the Barrett decision not to support CA LEO in the wake of the .50 BMG ban did anything; maybe not every SWAT team has a .50, but every California law enforcement Officer carries handgun ammo.

rklute
10-15-2009, 8:59 PM
Here is the final text of Section 123217:

12317. (a) Any person, corporation, or firm who supplies, delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(b) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and another provision of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.
(c) For purposes of this section, “ammunition” shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.

Subdivision (c) only refers to section 12317 which deals with transferring possession of ammunition (or its components) to someone the transferee knows or really should know isn't allowed to possess it. It is almost an exact copy of the existing Section 12316 subdivision (b)(2) where (b)(1) deals with the person who is prohibited from possessing ammunition possessing it.

Got it? Section 12316 subdivision (b) makes is a crime for someone who prohibited from owning/possessing a firearm to possess ammunition. Section 12317 now makes it a crime for the person who gave/sold that ammunition knowing they couldn't own/possess it.

Section 12317 is the crux of the bill. It is what allows law enforcement to go after the gangs' suppliers. The face-to-face paperwork part, which is what we object to, is there to document the trail of possession or at least make the gang banger's supplier think there is.

darkwater
10-15-2009, 9:27 PM
Please read Librarian's excellent post here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=230961

PowderApe
10-15-2009, 9:50 PM
Too bad the ammo distributors / manufacturers will probably continue to supply California law enforcement agencies. Not that the Barrett decision not to support CA LEO in the wake of the .50 BMG ban did anything; maybe not every SWAT team has a .50, but every California law enforcement Officer carries handgun ammo.

Yeah, but I doubt if the departments buy directly from the manufacturers. They buy from anyone willing to sell at a competitive bid price. If one outfit wont sell, due to "principal", I'm sure there will be 10 more standing in the wings eager and willing to sell to law enforcement agencies...

I applaud what Barrett did/is doing!

Swatter911
10-16-2009, 1:24 PM
I believe you are incorrect or mistaken, please provide supporting documentation to your claim.

(c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

I think the posters above me provided the clarification you requested. The section you quoted does not apply to AB962 changes and has always been the law regarding possession of "ammunition" by prohibited persons.

JJE
10-16-2009, 2:24 PM
Midwayusa won't ship ammo, bullets, cases, powder or primers to me in San Francisco, even though there is no law against it. I called their CS line about that a few years ago and they told me that it was a decision that their legal dept had made and I was wasting my time complaining about it, they would not ship me any of those items.

That's why I buy all my reloading components and ammo (delivered to SF) from:
- midsouthshooterssupply
- ableammo
- natchezzss
- cabelas (not ammo, but will ship components, unlike midwayusa)

I buy from midwayusa when they have a GREAT deal or something that the other vendors don't carry, but I don't need midwayusa to stay in business (because they won't ship me the components that I absolutely, positively must have to keep shooting), so I support these other vendors as much as I can.

hill billy
10-16-2009, 2:46 PM
FWIW, I hope I didn't step on any toes, but I sent this to Graf's who I buy A LOT of stuff from.

To Whom It May Concern,
As you may know Governor Schrwartzenegger recently signed into law AB962 which prevents internet sales of loaded handgun ammunition to California residents. As a long time customer of Grafs, I am very concerned that internet retailers will not realize that this bill does not affect projectiles such as the Berry's bullets that I buy from you on a regular basis. I am curious to know if your legal department has had a chance to review this bill and to form a strategy moving forward? I sincerely hope that Graf's will continue to sell these items to non prohibited persons such as myself. Naturally my greatest hope is that this bill will be defeated by the NRA and the Cal Guns Foundation before it takes effect in February 2011.
It is my understanding that the Cal Guns Foundation will be filing a law suit challenging this laws infringement on interstate commerce. They are at the forefront of pro gun legislation here in CA and can use the help of companies such as yours. I look forward to hearing your stance on this issue and respectfully request that you look into any ways in which you may help this bill be defeated. Thanks for your time and all the great service you have rendered to me personally.
Sincerely, Hill Billy

dfletcher
10-16-2009, 3:18 PM
Midwayusa won't ship ammo, bullets, cases, powder or primers to me in San Francisco, even though there is no law against it. I called their CS line about that a few years ago and they told me that it was a decision that their legal dept had made and I was wasting my time complaining about it, they would not ship me any of those items.

That's why I buy all my reloading components and ammo (delivered to SF) from:
- midsouthshooterssupply
- ableammo
- natchezzss
- cabelas (not ammo, but will ship components, unlike midwayusa)



That's my experience with Midway, they will not entertain any thought of dealing with SF on ammo, reloading. I use Grafs for the most part, I sent Grafs a letter and got pretty much a "we'll see but must comply with the law" response. My sense is that in Feb 2011 all the shippers will stop sending ammo, some will gradually refine their approach and some will do the C & R/COE routine. Just like the initial "won't send guns to CA" blanket approach after the CFLC, someone will figure out what to do to sell in the CA market when there's $$$ to be made.

Meplat
10-16-2009, 5:40 PM
Yes. But the department often supplies it and more practice ammo than they can get the guys to shoot. ;)

Too bad the ammo distributors / manufacturers will probably continue to supply California law enforcement agencies. Not that the Barrett decision not to support CA LEO in the wake of the .50 BMG ban did anything; maybe not every SWAT team has a .50, but every California law enforcement Officer carries handgun ammo.

JoeC
10-16-2009, 6:49 PM
If bullets are indeed banned then we'll just have to take up casting.

curtisfong
10-16-2009, 6:49 PM
If bullets are indeed banned

Why would bullets be banned?

freakshow10mm
10-16-2009, 6:56 PM
Yeah, but I doubt if the departments buy directly from the manufacturers. They buy from anyone willing to sell at a competitive bid price. If one outfit wont sell, due to "principal", I'm sure there will be 10 more standing in the wings eager and willing to sell to law enforcement agencies...

I applaud what Barrett did/is doing!
Or, like 10% Firearms advised me before, take their money, buy evil guns and send them to CA to piss off liberals.

tiko
10-16-2009, 8:01 PM
Good to hear that.

TKM
10-16-2009, 8:12 PM
My last message from Mr. Potterfield was him thanking me for ordering casting and bullet molding equipment. Gently caress the .ca.gov.

shadowofnight
10-21-2009, 12:54 PM
Just got my response from the president of MidwayUSA.......


" My stance is exactly what you would think it to be, I am against it. Not only that, I sent an email to all my customers urging they contact the Governor’s office as well. I am guessing the response was lackluster. It is troubling to me that we are a nation of over 60 million gunowners, and 14 million hunters, yet membership in the NRA hovers around four million. Instead of panic buying in fear that politicians are going to infringe on our rights, we need to get our heads out of the sand and join the NRA. This should be the final wake up call to all California gunowners, and we had better see a swelling of the NRA membership from your State or I suspect this will be the tip of the iceberg. We need to use the political process to make our voices heard, and until we organize and do that, I think we will always have the danger of politicians trying to ban guns or ammunition. We will continue our efforts with the NRA, and hopefully overturn this. Once it makes it on the books, it is a tough struggle indeed. MidwayUSA will continue to abide by all the laws governing the sale of our products, but that does not mean we won’t fight them.



Thanks for Your Business,



Larry Potterfield

CEO

MidwayUSA

NRA Benefactor Member "





I guess we Californians just gave a lackluster effort towards contacting the Gov office :confused:



" Not only that, I sent an email to all my customers urging they contact the Governor’s office as well. I am guessing the response was lackluster. "

jdberger
10-21-2009, 12:57 PM
Shadowofnight, PM sent.