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JeffW
10-15-2009, 12:01 AM
Tonight added a bipod rail and QD bipod:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/DSC02123.jpg


The design objective was a "medium range," rifle, something that logically fit beween a .223 carbine and a dedicated precision or long range rifle.

I wanted something that was arguably fit for zombie scenerio -- meaning it couldn't be completely useless under 25 yards. But, since primary purpose is to reach out farther than a carbine (a rifle for flat wide open spacess) means I want to be able to hit hard out to 500 and 600 yards. Arguably a DMR or similar would serve as well, but for this I chose .308.

This config definitely makes some compromises.

At the long range the rationale is drop prone, use the sling, and then you can take advantage of the variable magnification and dial it up past 3X.

I'd call it a "fast prone rifle," but the sling (a necessary piece of marksmanship gear, imho) isn't very fast. Prone is still my best shooting position, however. I'll probably have to look into a faster sling.

Springfield M1A 18"
Burris 3-12X Illuminated Dot scope (with a bullet drop reticle) in leupold qd rings
TNVC accessory rail mounting SAR-II (appears same as burris fastfire sans power switch)
Turner Match sling
Harris 1A2-L bipod on ARMS QD Mount
M1acheekpad.com cheekpad


For medium/close range, it's definitely heaver than a scout rifle like the steyr. I wouldn't necessarily want to carry it around all day, like a ranch gun or on a hunt, but it wouldn't be impossible either.

On 3X the optic is great. It's big and bright, and forgiving of head movement.
It works great standing or prone, and if it's at least 50-75 yards out the scope works pretty quick with both eyes open. For closer stuff you chicken neck quite a bit to get to the red dot, but it is faster than using the scope for really close stuff and plenty accurate.

The RDP-II is great in that it auto-adjusts brightness, and it works really well.

The springfield mount gets hot (it appears to be attached to the barrel) with continued firing, and I am somewhat worried it might cook the electronics in the optics -- time will tell.

The forward scope mount makes addressing the chamber easier than with a Sadlak or similar mount, which seem cramped.

I also like that it is not a california "assault weapon," so as to fewer transport rules and I have plenty of lawfully possessed pre-2000 USGI mags.

Earlier photo:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/DSC02047.jpg

technique
10-15-2009, 12:05 AM
Interesting set up...
I know you said the optic may get hot, but is it stable? No movment, POI hasn't shifted at all?

Nice rifle man!

JeffW
10-15-2009, 12:08 AM
It's been stable so far, no POI movement of either the scope or the red dot.

GUNMANforevah
10-15-2009, 4:30 AM
Nice rifles man.. How the accuracy of Springfield M1A 18

B Strong
10-15-2009, 4:51 AM
I get it.

I've posted here more than once that I think the M1A scout/squad rifle is the best affordable rifle available in California.

Baja_Traveler
10-15-2009, 6:52 AM
Nice setup - I've always wanted one of those...

reidnez
10-15-2009, 7:02 AM
Nice!

freakshow10mm
10-15-2009, 7:24 AM
What's the ER on the scope? Seems like a long way's from eyeball.

J_Rock
10-15-2009, 11:17 AM
You know this guy named Jeff Cooper pretty much came up with this concept like 20 years ago. Except you did it with a M1a instead of a lightweight bolt action.

JeffW
10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
B Strong: Do you have a similar model? Any suggestions from someone with more experience on this platform?

freakshow10mm: The ER on the scope is adequate, the mfr states 10-19" on 3X, and I've found it very forgiving. At 12X you have to be in the exact right spot -- it's not really usable (10-12.5"). It's a pistol scope model.

J Rock: I'm familiar with Cooper's scout rifle concept, and I am neither holding myself up as some kind of expert nor do I think it is in similar in objective to the scout rifle. I'm just trying to share what I think is a rather good solution for working within the restrictions of this state. Yes, I'd rather have an SR-25 for this application, but it's not gonna happen.

Cooper writes:

The new-wave rifle is neither more powerful nor intrinsically more accurate than the rifles of the past, but it is much, much handier--shorter, lighter and quicker to operate. The current guideline is a length limit of one meter and a weight limit of three kilos. (This weight is measured with all accessories in place but with the weapon unloaded.) Immediately these limitations point us toward short actions, short barrels, compact sights, and synthetic stocks.

This rifle is not light, nor would I call it handy, nor is it as quick pointing as a scout rifle. That said, I'm stoked to have it.

QuarterBoreGunner
10-15-2009, 12:26 PM
I like what you've done here; but more I like how you did it. You approached this with a definite plan in your head of what your objective was, and how you were going to accomplish it with the tools you had.

My point is I think a lot of gun owners just start tricking out their rifles with all the way cool go fast goodies, but never put any real thought into, what exactly they plan on doing with the rifle. Hey, I'm no exception, back in the day (late 90's) I picked up a Bushmaster M4 type and immediately spent more than the rifle alone on all sorts of crap to bolt onto it. Now, of the stuff I bought is collecting dust, while, it may have taken me a while to figure out, I now have a rifle that is eminently suited for the task I use it for. No un-needed bit's and pieces.

So yeah I like what you did there.

Oh yeah and try a Quick Cuff sling from Tactical Interventions (http://www.tacticalintervention.com/quickcuffslingmodelone.html); sounds like it might fit your needs for a rapidly deployable shooting sling.

jmf_tracy
10-15-2009, 12:27 PM
What's the ER on the scope? Seems like a long way's from eyeball.

+1
doesn't look like it would work to me.

Black Majik
10-15-2009, 12:34 PM
Excellent rifle. I see the Burris scout scope on there, I do seem to remember a thread over on ARFcom inquiring about this scope?

For Californians with non-RAWs, the M1A or similiar M14 build from LRB would be the ideal SHTF/BO rifle. I do like your concept of a medium rifle.

Bravo.

5ohguy
10-15-2009, 2:45 PM
Nice rifle. I'm looking to building my m1a similar to that. I've been looking at the Leupold fx-ii scout scope. Do you think 2.5x is enough magnification to shoot out to 600 yards?

Also I second the Quick-Cuff sling.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
10-15-2009, 3:18 PM
I like your analysis of the need and the weapon you've constructed to fill it. Well done!

autodex
10-15-2009, 4:08 PM
Good deal have a Scout as well. Mods I made to mine were the Ultimak Rail which replaces the plastic handguard and Aimpoint Comp M2 2MOA Dot w Aimpoint Low Ring. The Aimpoint has a high battery life so QD was an afterthought. It co-witnesses with the irons so no cheek riser is necessary. Also replaced the SA Muzzle Break with a Smith Enterprises USCG Muzzle Break which I prefer bc its also helps with felt recoil. I upgraded the Springs to Tubbs Chrome and also have a Sadlak National Match Guide Rod which makes the action much smoother. This setup is good to out 500-600 yards, however a little magnification would be nice. For up close and personal the red dot really helps.
Just for kick and giggles I placed the Scout in a presentation grade unissued USGI M14 synthetic stock (from Freds stocks) with the selector cut unfilled. Got a national match 4.5lb trigger job on my current trigger group currently being worked on by Ted Brown who works on M14 and M1A for a living coming next week

JeffW
10-15-2009, 5:20 PM
Nice rifle. I'm looking to building my m1a similar to that. I've been looking at the Leupold fx-ii scout scope. Do you think 2.5x is enough magnification to shoot out to 600 yards?

Also I second the Quick-Cuff sling.

I looked at the Leupold ($280) and went with the Burris 3-12X ($469) because of the E-Dot and bullet drop reticule, and the variable. It's really hard to look at them and tell the difference between 2.5X and 3X as a practical matter.

Do I need a variable optic? No, but it's Nice To Have for the longer stuff. The Ballistic Plex is only correct at 3X though (it's not a FFP reticule).

Thanks to all who shouted out about the quick-cuff -- ordered.

aevans
10-15-2009, 5:58 PM
The M1a Scout Squad *is* Springfield's design to fit the scout spec in a semi-auto platform. Your setup above is, by Cooper's definition, a Scout configuration. (He setup semi-auto Styers almost identically)

The reason for the forward mounted rail is for a forward-mounted fixed magnification scope.

The reason for a forward-mounted scope it to provide full FOV for scouting.

Cooper was adamant about fixed magnification scopes. This was largely because of the tendency for variable-x scopes to break, and/or to fail to hold or reset to zero, effectively making them useless in the heat of combat. I read there are super-durable variable-x scopes today for MBRs, but every time I read this a friend puts one on his M1a or FAL and it breaks after a hard weekend of shooting.

I am a big fan of Cooper's scout rifle concept, having grown up on large cattle ranches and scouted from horseback. Back then I preferred old lever actions, usually in a pistol caliber (to go with the revolver you'd be wearing, in .357 or .44, both decent carbine cartridges but obviously not effective out to Cooper's intended Scout range of 600 yards).

Today the M1a Scout is my first choice for this. It is probably the most accurate and powerful combination short package MBR. I have a para-FAL setup slightly shorter than this (16.5), also in a scout config, but the FAL just won't run with the M1a at the range over 300 yards. (And my FAL has a DSA match grade barrel, about a 3k package all done up).

AR10/15's are also an option. Many makers like LaRue make excellent 308 ARs, and you could easily put together a scout config, if you want the flexibility of the AR platform to Bubbify or Batman your gun.

However, given the goal of the scout is to maximize flexibility, while maintaining simplicity and durability, I think the rifle above solves quite nicely. I have one just like it :)

JeffW
10-17-2009, 12:05 PM
One of the things I was concerned about was height over bore on the red dot.Turns out it's about 1" higher than a fixed handle AR15, which while not ideal, is manageable. The M1A having higher bore axis on the stock helps with this issue.

Here's a size comparison vs an AR15 carbine with a 16" overall barrel length (the ar15 is a cali. reg'd aw, before certain people get their knickers in a bunch):

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3911.jpg


Here's some more pics of the rifle:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3905.jpg

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3906.jpg

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3908.jpg

And, a few pics for those who were doubting the eye relief (camera on cheek pad):

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3901.jpg

JeffW
10-17-2009, 12:07 PM
A few pics of the red dot with different focal points:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3902.jpg

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3903.jpg

JeffW
10-17-2009, 12:11 PM
Scope on a higher power -- not sure if you can see the bullet drop dots on the reticule or not...

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv33/jephjeph/IMG_3909.jpg

Barney Gumble
10-17-2009, 2:09 PM
Good discussion and nice setup.

My only suggestion would be to move your RDS from the top to the right side (if you're a righty) 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock position. On top like that, you're going to lose your cheek weld if you want to use the RDS. By offsetting it to the right you simply rotate the rifle to use the RDS and you maintain your cheek weld.

JeffW
10-17-2009, 2:24 PM
Good discussion and nice setup.

My only suggestion would be to move your RDS from the top to the right side (if you're a righty) 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock position. On top like that, you're going to lose your cheek weld if you want to use the RDS. By offsetting it to the right you simply rotate the rifle to use the RDS and you maintain your cheek weld.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I had done the 3 oclock position (on both sides) but didn't like it as much as straight up and down.