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Hunt
10-14-2009, 8:05 PM
I think it is about time we expand our efforts to stop the theft of our civil rights. De Leon could easily have done things differently to reign in gangbanger ammo purchases. His legislation shows little respect for our privacy or burdens placed on business. Our efforts to restore our stolen civil rights includes a variety of efforts including the Attorneys here at CalGuns, the NRA, community organizers teaching marksmanship and gun safety.

I propose we expand our social justice efforts to include Political Action Committees dedicated to specific politicians. I am willing to work on a single politician committee to remove De Leon forever from public service. How about "The Peoples Committe for Social Justice to Remove DeLeon" we could have individual cells dedicated to the offending Politician with all that cells resources. This is how the left forced Palin out of office. What do you guys think?

yellowfin
10-14-2009, 8:40 PM
I say do it on bounty basis- post a monetary reward for beating him at an election.

Hunt
10-14-2009, 8:43 PM
I say do it on bounty basis- post a monetary reward for beating him at an election.

I thank the Founders for providing our ability to redress greviences, use it or lose it. "Let's roll"

Purple K
10-14-2009, 8:44 PM
Did someone say BOUNTY :80:

Stormfeather
10-14-2009, 8:47 PM
using words like "cells" makes it sound too terroristic. IMHO.

thatrogue
10-14-2009, 8:47 PM
24 hr surveillance we'll catch him doing something dirty

tiki
10-14-2009, 8:50 PM
I think its a great idea. I would love to see a fund started for some nice negative tv ads.

GammaRei
10-14-2009, 8:52 PM
using words like "cells" makes it sound too terroristic. IMHO.

I find that offensive. . .

- G















(not really I actually agree).

radioburning
10-14-2009, 8:58 PM
Whatever it takes to get this guy thrown out on his sorry ***...I'm with it.

yellowfin
10-14-2009, 9:09 PM
Why is the reward system not predominantly used? It seems we waste way too much money paying candidates to try rather than to win- the incentive is lost that way.

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 9:10 PM
Why not put the money and time where it can actually make a difference *now*?

yellowfin
10-14-2009, 9:22 PM
I don't think it is making a difference if they get the money and lose. Their effort as far as I see it stops when they get the money- they don't fight hard enough or they'd win more. Our side is way too Mr. Niceguy and doesn't throw half as many punches as they should whereas it seems the other will do absolutely anything and everything to win and never fight with anything less than all they've got. The disparity of effort is disgusting- apparently they see the prospect of losing less bothersome to them. That is why I suggest it be done the other way around.

dantodd
10-14-2009, 9:40 PM
I don't think it is making a difference if they get the money and lose. Their effort as far as I see it stops when they get the money- they don't fight hard enough or they'd win more.

The problem, of course, is that the money is needed in order to be victorious. It's rather like rewarding a soldier with a rifle and ammunition. It is much better to carry these things INTO battle rather than have them after the battle.

mcsoupman
10-14-2009, 9:43 PM
Just called De Leon's office and communicated in my best appropriate tone, that I was utterly disgusted with DeLeons lack of concern for business and his inept understanding of how to enact better law enforcement.

aklon
10-14-2009, 9:46 PM
Why is the reward system not predominantly used? It seems we waste way too much money paying candidates to try rather than to win- the incentive is lost that way.


You've obviously never run for political office.

Here's the truth: without money, you get no ads, no mailers, no flyers, no nothing: you don't get elected. Your ballot measure gets defeated.

As long as we're at it: no one runs for office unless they want to win; "try" is for losers.

( Yes, I lost, but I know whereof I speak.)

Hunt
10-14-2009, 9:47 PM
Why not put the money and time where it can actually make a difference *now*?

we need an asymetrical approach, this has been very very successful for the left, the children are indoctrinated in the schools, the media reinforces PC, legislatures act it is not one single front. Time to expand our toolchest.
We could use the word 'community organization' instead of cells. A bounty is a fantastic plan, 24 hr surveillance is excellent as well, opposition research would be great. Keep in mind Palin had to step down because of this type of political action it works. My vision is peoples committees in communities throughout the Nation, keep in mind our civil rights is a "social justice" issue. When these civil rights violators rear their ugly heads
then their specific local community organization becomes committed to the one issue of removing that politician, because they violated Americans 2A rights. It wouldn't take too long and these guys would stop violating our civil rights, when every time the offender is removed from office and relentlessly hounded for their political career. If a public servant violates 2A rights of citizens the act becomes political suicide teach these politicians to stick with banning cell phones while driving, but they better leave the Constitution alone. There are organizations on the left we could study and learn from.
So let's explore and converse, I do believe we must use all of our rights or lose them and this includes our right to redress of grievences, free speech and assembly.

dantodd
10-14-2009, 9:50 PM
You've obviously never run for political office.

Here's the truth: without money, you get no ads, no mailers, no flyers, no nothing: you don't get elected. Your ballot measure gets defeated.

As long as we're at it: no one runs for office unless they want to win; "try" is for losers.

( Yes, I lost, but I know whereof I speak.)

Also, money given before the election is more valuable. Once a candidate becomes an incumbent the value of each dollar is diminished because fundraising is generally easier for an incumbent.

aklon
10-14-2009, 9:50 PM
Our side is way too Mr. Niceguy and doesn't throw half as many punches as they should whereas it seems the other will do absolutely anything and everything to win and never fight with anything less than all they've got.

This is because we play by Marquis of Queensbury rules while our opponents are using Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

I say we read this book and next time meet our enemies head on, using their own rules against them.

Hunt
10-14-2009, 9:52 PM
Also, money given before the election is more valuable. Once a candidate becomes an incumbent the value of each dollar is diminished because fundraising is generally easier for an incumbent.

we need to discuss this "grassroots organizing concept" brainstorm all ideas and define what would be most effective.

dantodd
10-14-2009, 10:00 PM
we need to discuss this "grassroots organizing concept" brainstorm all ideas and define what would be most effective.

I believe that you are always more effective when you are supporting someone or something rather than opposing something or someone. If you merely oppose DeLeon then you have the potential to get someone worse, or be stuck with him because while you were NOT supporting a single candidate 2 popped up and split the anti-DeLeon vote you were working so hard to create.

These are excruciatingly painful and difficult times. It is in times of difficulty that it is most important to remain calm and focus your efforts where most effective. As Gene has said a number of times we are outnumbered in California right now. Until we address that there is little chance of finding recourse in the legislature. Hell, for all you and I know DeLeon might be EXACTLY what his district wants. It would make no sense in trying to make him look bad if his politics are popular in his district because they will just replace him with an indistinguishable clone.

Would you waste energy trying to get Newsom out of office in hopes that a pro-2A mayor would be elected to replace him?

Let's keep the focus on gaining our rights back and fight the bad legislation as it pops up. In the mean time let your money talk by investing in the CGF suits and the NRA lobbying efforts.

Hunt
10-14-2009, 10:01 PM
This is because we play by Marquis of Queensbury rules while our opponents are using Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

I say we read this book and next time meet our enemies head on, using their own rules against them.

you are absolutely right, but the difference between what we propose and what Alinsky was trying to do is we are protecting centuries old political principles that have been proven to elevate humanity, improve and maintain the Natural condition of humanity. Additionally, if one were to account for the price paid for this Freedom we hope to protect we must consider the brave souls that sacrificed great fortunes and life over the centuries. Compare this sacrifice to what? There is no comparison only an ivory tower utopian dream. Can we let this great gift slip away? I am in should we borrow the vocabulary of the left?

aklon
10-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Also, money given before the election is more valuable. Once a candidate becomes an incumbent the value of each dollar is diminished because fundraising is generally easier for an incumbent.

Yes and no; it largely depends on the incumbent, but you are right to a point: there will always be some residual "looking for a favor" monies floating around.

The Democrats are successful not because they raise a lot of money, but because they can get people out there on the street, they can get them to man the phone banks, they can get the people to drive the old folks to the polls - the Dems can do that because they're seen as the union's best friend so the unions provide manpower.

(They also deliver votes. I was in Antioch Arms back in 1998 when a guy came in ranting and raving about how the Dems in Sacramento were going to take away our gun rights and what could we do to stop them? The election had come down the week before, so I asked him if he'd voted and he said of course he did. I asked him how he voted, and he said he'd voted Democrat, of course. When I asked him why, he said it was because his shop steward had said it would be good for his union!)

aklon
10-14-2009, 10:07 PM
you are absolutely right, but the difference between what we propose and what Alinsky was trying to do is we are protecting centuries old political principles that have been proven to elevate humanity, improve and maintain the Natural condition of humanity.

You raise profound and troubling points, but we're in a rat pit with the vermin surging against us. We don't have the luxury of choosing which weapon we shall or shall not use in the preservation of our principles: we have to use every and all weapons at our disposal, even those of the enemy.

aklon
10-14-2009, 10:09 PM
we need to discuss this "grassroots organizing concept" brainstorm all ideas and define what would be most effective.


Why not try your local NRA Member's Council (if you live here in California)? They're already here and thirsting for ideas.

Hunt
10-14-2009, 10:14 PM
I believe that you are always more effective when you are supporting someone or something rather than opposing something or someone. If you merely oppose DeLeon then you have the potential to get someone worse, or be stuck with him because while you were NOT supporting a single candidate 2 popped up and split the anti-DeLeon vote you were working so hard to create.

These are excruciatingly painful and difficult times. It is in times of difficulty that it is most important to remain calm and focus your efforts where most effective. As Gene has said a number of times we are outnumbered in California right now. Until we address that there is little chance of finding recourse in the legislature. Hell, for all you and I know DeLeon might be EXACTLY what his district wants. It would make no sense in trying to make him look bad if his politics are popular in his district because they will just replace him with an indistinguishable clone.

Would you waste energy trying to get Newsom out of office in hopes that a pro-2A mayor would be elected to replace him?

Let's keep the focus on gaining our rights back and fight the bad legislation as it pops up. In the mean time let your money talk by investing in the CGF suits and the NRA lobbying efforts.

you are correct but I am suggesting to learn from the Left. Yes Calguns is only one front in the war, NRA another, marksmanship programs another, CCW activism another, see my point, lets expand the front another tool. Something must be realized all our issues can't be solved by CalGuns alone. Heller clearly States locals can make reasonable regulations. We need community organizations that end the careers of locals that infringe upon our rights.
On the surface AB 962 appears reasonable and I am not a lawyer but I would bet if challenged in court AB 962 would stand as reasonable under Heller and after incorporation. So the solution to this is take the locals on one at a time, we must make it political suicide for locals to make this legislation, train them to stick with taking bribes from developers and banning cell phones.

Furthermore, we better move fast as the locals will be on the move now that DeLeons travesty passed.

dantodd
10-14-2009, 10:28 PM
you are correct but I am suggesting to learn from the Left. Yes Calguns is only one front in the war, NRA another, marksmanship programs another, CCW activism another, see my point, lets expand the front another tool. Something must be realized all our issues can't be solved by CalGuns alone.

CalGuns, the NRA, CRPA etc. are all working very hard to try and turn the tide in California. CalGuns in particular is very open to suggestions. Many of the things you might like to do may well find a home in the calguns community organizing efforts. Look for threads started by wildhawker and offer up your ideas. We need highly enthused individuals thinking outside the box, you fit the bill...

Heller clearly States locals can make reasonable regulations. We need community organizations that end the careers of locals that infringe upon our rights.

No, Heller makes no assertion at all about locals. Until incorporation locals have the right (in California) to make any law they damn well please, to hell with reasonableness. No, that is not hyperbole. Unless we get incorporation California *could* outlaw all firearms.

On the surface AB 962 appears reasonable and I am not a lawyer but I would bet if challenged in court AB 962 would stand as reasonable under Heller and after incorporation.

This is likely not the case. There are both 2A and Interstate commerce issues here. This is EXACTLY why do need to pay lawyers, they do know what is and isn't likely to be ripe for litigation.

So the solution to this is take the locals on one at a time, we must make it political suicide for locals to make this legislation, train them to stick with taking bribes from developers and banning cell phones.


You are right that it does make sense to take on locals where appropriate but you have to decide which are beatable by the demographics of their districts and the strength of potential opponents. We cannot fund a blue-sky campaign it must already have considerable funding. And as much as you and I may not like it LA residents who elected DeLeon might hate guns and support what he's doing no matter how much outreach or education we try.

Furthermore, we better move fast as the locals will be on the move now that DeLeons travesty passed.

Just as a general exercise try to find the dollars spent on DeLeon's last election campaign and then look for similar numbers from smaller districts. Now try and calculate how much money we'd have to dump into the process to get a significant change. Look up the re-election rate for CA senators and assembly members and figure we can do twice as well at ousting antis than in a normal cycle just to give us a lot of credit. I would estimate that to swing 10 seats in each the house and the senate it would take $15 million or more.

M. D. Van Norman
10-14-2009, 11:28 PM
The Democrats are successful not because they raise a lot of money.…

Are you sure?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php

GuyW
10-15-2009, 9:27 AM
Not an easy job, nor guaranteed success, in taking De Leon down.

First, in De Leon's case, to get rid of him would most probably require a replacement to be elected (unless De Leon could be removed for criminal activities - of which I have no information).

Second, I doubt that his voter base gives a #$%^ about the Constitution. The voter base needs to be studied, and most important concerns ID'd, and then De Leon's activities closely studied to see whether he's a hypocrite.

.

oldrifle
10-15-2009, 9:29 AM
Second, I doubt that his voter base gives a #$%^ about the Constitution. The voter base needs to be studied, and most important concerns ID'd, and then De Leon's activities closely studied to see whether he's a hypocrite.

.

I wonder how many of his voters are even legal to vote in this country? Just saying...

I was doing some research on him and found this pic of some of his constituents.

http://latinopoliticsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/homies.jpg

Mikeb
10-15-2009, 9:47 AM
When does DeLeon term out? And how do you prevent him from finding a higher office?
One thing that helps the Dems is they have a really big tent. Of course all those different interests leave them beholding to every kook club in the country. Obama is finding that out. The gays are marching because they haven't gotten what they want. The people in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens will be knocking on the door. His health care plan is a total mess because of all the divergent groups that want different plans.
The big tent might get you in but you'll never get a nights sleep under it.
take care
Mike

Hunt
10-15-2009, 10:29 AM
the thing I am noticing is the DEMS chose someone that is less vulnerable to be unseated to introduce legislation that steals our civil rights. Unseating
the offender is great but I am thinking more in terms of what the left did to Palin. In her situation she was responsible to pay her own legal fees to fight bogus lawsuits that were intended to bankrupt her. I am suggesting our Community Organization the "Peoples Committees for Social Justice" use the anti Palin model modified for each unique situation and whatever is not violating the law. Maybe DeLeon is vulnerable to corruption charges? What if there was 500k FIOA request on every memo he ever wrote, see what I mean. We must make this type of offense political suicide at the local level. Palin was so busy dealing with the onslaught of the radical leftist she couldn't do a days work, this is what we must do.
There must other ways to ensure political suicide to these offenders other than a defeat at the polls. Or founders provided the means to protect America's Freedoms and our veterans have sacrificed for our Liberty, we can't let these offenders like DeLeon just walk after this travesty. I believe what DeLeon did was in part a probe into our responses as well as setting some type of "normal and customary practice" that local gov't can register and control ammo. This travesty is not good by any standard of measure. I will look into what our options are for FOIA at State level.

berto
10-15-2009, 10:44 AM
the thing I am noticing is the DEMS chose someone that is less vulnerable to be unseated to introduce legislation that steals our civil rights. Unseating
the offender is great but I am thinking more in terms of what the left did to Palin. In her situation she was responsible to pay her own legal fees to fight bogus lawsuits that were intended to bankrupt her. I am suggesting our Community Organization the "Peoples Committees for Social Justice" use the anti Palin model modified for each unique situation and whatever is not violating the law. Maybe DeLeon is vulnerable to corruption charges? What if there was 500k FIOA request on every memo he ever wrote, see what I mean. We must make this type of offense political suicide at the local level. Palin was so busy dealing with the onslaught of the radical leftist she couldn't do a days work, this is what we must do.
There must other ways to ensure political suicide to these offenders other than a defeat at the polls. Or founders provided the means to protect America's Freedoms and our veterans have sacrificed for our Liberty, we can't let these offenders like DeLeon just walk after this travesty. I believe what DeLeon did was in part a probe into our responses as well as setting some type of "normal and customary practice" that local gov't can register and control ammo. This travesty is not good by any standard of measure. I will look into what our options are for FOIA at State level.

Find the dirt.

Go to the media.

Hope the media pursues what you find.

Watch DeLeon skate away on a wave of political defense fund money raised to aid him in a fight against bogus charges by racist gun owners.

Hunt
10-15-2009, 10:56 AM
Find the dirt.

Go to the media.

Hope the media pursues what you find.

Watch DeLeon skate away on a wave of political defense fund money raised to aid him in a fight against bogus charges by racist gun owners.

I wonder if we can get FOIA on his defense fund contributers

berto
10-15-2009, 11:18 AM
I wonder if we can get FOIA on his defense fund contributers

It wouldn't matter.

The same deep pockets that fund his campaign would fund a legal defense fund unless he was on tape molesting little boys or eating live puppies.

I understand the anger over de Leon's crap bill and the general state of affairs, I'm pissed too, but de Leon is one symptom of a much bigger problem. Run de Leon out and he'll be replaced by another shill for the same groups. His district isn't sending a gun loving republican to the statehouse any time soon (the two prior clows were Villaraigosa and Jackie Goldberg).

The lines get redrawn in a few years. That's when we have a chance. It makes more sense to find, counsel, and help the next round of candidates than to pin our hopes on finding or manufacturing some dirt on clowns like de Leon who are close to being termed out as it is.

Sure it would feel good to take down de Leon. It will feel better and bring better results if we spend the time and effort finding a pro-gun candidate to replace him.

Hunt
10-15-2009, 11:37 AM
It wouldn't matter.

The same deep pockets that fund his campaign would fund a legal defense fund unless he was on tape molesting little boys or eating live puppies.

I understand the anger over de Leon's crap bill and the general state of affairs, I'm pissed too, but de Leon is one symptom of a much bigger problem. Run de Leon out and he'll be replaced by another shill for the same groups. His district isn't sending a gun loving republican to the statehouse any time soon (the two prior clows were Villaraigosa and Jackie Goldberg).

The lines get redrawn in a few years. That's when we have a chance. It makes more sense to find, counsel, and help the next round of candidates than to pin our hopes on finding or manufacturing some dirt on clowns like de Leon who are close to being termed out as it is.

Sure it would feel good to take down de Leon. It will feel better and bring better results if we spend the time and effort finding a pro-gun candidate to replace him.

it's good to discuss these strategies, I agree with a lot of what you suggest, so then the next logical question is where is the CA R party on this 2A issue?
we keep getting RINOS. Maybe our "community organization" would be better off hounding CA R leaders to field 2A advocates than put resources into destroying DeLeon. I am more than willing to work on this as I think we need an asymetrical response to our circumstance. However, I certainly want my time to be used most effectively.

wildhawker
10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
Much of what is being discussed is in development statewide (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=183) as we speak.

Go to a Calguns Town Hall and hear more about it (schedule for NorCal coming soon).

Calguns.net now Calguns.com, announces formation of Calguns, Inc.

http://www.cdglobal.net/stuff/CGC_Star%20outlined-150.png
CALGUNS, INC. - HEALDSBURG, CA. For Immediate Release September 3, 2009

After 7 years of quietly transforming California’s ‘Right to Keep and Bear Arms’ (RKBA) world, popular web forum Calguns.net is making noise by revamping itself with a name change to Calguns.com, a sleek new avant-garde look and adding many exciting features. Ben Cannon and Brandon Combs are joining Paul Nordberg on the newly-formed Board of Directors by taking shareholder positions in Calguns, Inc., which owns the website and forums.

The new Board includes three dedicated members of the RKBA community. Mr. Cannon will combine his years of highly-successful business management and passion for gun rights in the new Calguns organization. Mr. Combs will serve the Calguns community by directing its vastly expanded outreach and educational efforts. Mr. Nordberg will retain voting control of the organization and serve as Site Administrator, where he will continue to lead the forum’s dedicated team of moderators.

“Widespread name recognition and a substantially increased membership base are critical to positioning Calguns as a social advocacy organization capable of influencing state-level decision-making. Our goals are ambitious, and it’s no secret that we expect to see Calguns at 300,000 members in 12 months time,” says Cannon.

Asked what current members should anticipate, Cannon explains: “Our members will immediately see the benefits of a familiar, yet enhanced, user experience as well as new features like improved searching, secure, encrypted browsing and aesthetically-integrated advertising.”

“We’re excited to reach beyond cyberspace with the new Calguns Community Chapters outreach program. These Chapters will provide a much-needed ‘on the ground’ presence to promote the rights of firearm owners in our communities. Soon, even geographically-separated members will be able to leverage the collaborative potential of Calguns to discuss concepts and opportunities for outreach in their neighborhoods, as well as sharing documents, educational materials and more,” says Combs.

“At its core, Calguns is a place where friends and family gather to discuss those topics important to them; this absolutely will not change. Calguns will continue to provide a safe and well-structured environment filled with the web’s best firearm-related content. The goal of Calguns’ outward growth is to create more opportunities for members to communicate and stay connected to those issues that matter to them while maintaining the rich, robust online home they have in our forums,” says Nordberg.

“Calguns has become the platform of choice for all Californians who wish to preserve and further their Second Amendment rights,” says Cannon. “This is about giving our membership the powerful social and political voice they deserve. When Calguns calls, Sacramento is going to be picking up the phone.”

Calguns, Inc. is California’s premier organization dedicated to serving the firearms community. Its 34,000 members enjoy the robust discussion forums at Calguns.com, one of the largest and most active on the internet. For more information visit www.calguns.com or contact media@calguns.com.

berto
10-15-2009, 11:58 AM
it's good to discuss these strategies, I agree with a lot of what you suggest, so then the next logical question is where is the CA R party on this 2A issue?
we keep getting RINOS. Maybe our "community organization" would be better off hounding CA R leaders to field 2A advocates than put resources into destroying DeLeon. I am more than willing to work on this as I think we need an asymetrical response to our circumstance. However, I certainly want my time to be used most effectively.

Our problem is that 2A issues are seen as exclusively white, male, and conservative republican. We need to press for pro-2A candidates period. And we need to support them with our efforts and votes. It doesn't matter if they're dems or reps.

In fact, a pro-2A dem minority candidate who could win would do wonders for us. The pejorative "gun nut" claims by the media and the other side disappear when the "gun nut" pushing pro-2A legislation is a minority dem representing a district of the same. Such an event would turn worlds upside down.

How do we do this? The same machine produced Villaraigosa and de Leon. Who is being groomed to replace de Leon when he's termed out in 2012? Who are viable alternatives to the chosen one if the chosen one is, as is most likely, anti-2A? It's in our best interest that the candidates emerging from both parties are pro-2A. If the district remains a safe dem seat after redistricting our efforts would be better spent on backing a pro-2A dem than a republican with no shot at winning.

aklon
10-15-2009, 11:58 AM
Are you sure?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php

Yep. I've seen 'em in action and I can tell you that all the money spent on flyers and mailers is good, but the deal is closed when a live person shows up on the doorstep and asks for the vote. The unions deliver this for the Democrats, every time. Republicans can spend more money than the Fed can print, but they can never match the number of feet on the ground the Dems can put out there.

aklon
10-15-2009, 12:01 PM
Find the dirt.

Go to the media.

Hope the media pursues what you find.

Watch DeLeon skate away on a wave of political defense fund money raised to aid him in a fight against bogus charges by racist gun owners.

This is what happened to David Roberti, of the Roberti/Roos AW Ban. Enough dirt got dug up on him that he had to spend all his campaign money defending himself.

You can't tell me DeLeon hasn't got SOMETHING in this background we can use to our advantage.

berto
10-15-2009, 12:40 PM
This is what happened to David Roberti, of the Roberti/Roos AW Ban. Enough dirt got dug up on him that he had to spend all his campaign money defending himself.

You can't tell me DeLeon hasn't got SOMETHING in this background we can use to our advantage.

What did the Roberti recall effort really accomplish? Did it send a real message or teach a lesson to any antis besides Roberti? I'm not sure.

The real question is whether our time, effort, and money are better spent going after de Leon just to see him replaced by a carbon copy or changing the game entirely? Removing de Leon may be a lesson not to cross gun owners in but, again, I'm not sure. And in any event, changing the game on a more permanent basis does more for us long run.

I'm not opposed to doing both.

Sunwolf
10-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Target DeLeon in a recall just like Roberti,let him spend money defending himself.

vladbutsky
10-15-2009, 2:05 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/08/INFS114789.DTL

Is ghost voting good enough to go after DeLeon?

pnkssbtz
10-15-2009, 2:18 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/08/INFS114789.DTL

Is ghost voting good enough to go after DeLeon?Laws are for the citizenry not for those in power. Duh!

berto
10-15-2009, 2:40 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/08/INFS114789.DTL

Is ghost voting good enough to go after DeLeon?

Didn't seem to play a role in de Leon getting re-elected in '08. The story broke after the primary and his district is safe.

RRangel
10-15-2009, 2:51 PM
Fixed it fer ya! :D:chris:

Posts like this doesn't do us any good. Please edit the dumb remark.

Quemtimebo
10-15-2009, 4:11 PM
My gift to any competent webmaster/political genius:

recalldeleon.com
recalldeleon.org
recalldeleon.net

One year, bought and paid for. Let's get the ball rolling :D

oldrifle
10-15-2009, 5:00 PM
I have a website that would definitely link to that site because it promotes online ammo sales (ammospy.com). I might even be able to build out the site myself. Good on you for registering those domains!

My gift to any competent webmaster/political genius:

recalldeleon.com
recalldeleon.org
recalldeleon.net

One year, bought and paid for. Let's get the ball rolling :D

Regulus
10-15-2009, 5:21 PM
My gift to any competent webmaster/political genius:

recalldeleon.com
recalldeleon.org
recalldeleon.net

One year, bought and paid for. Let's get the ball rolling :D

This deserves its own thread.

10-54
10-15-2009, 6:54 PM
is it legal to post publicly "$1,000 reward to whomever has the best dirt on **public official**" such as in a news paper or on craigslist. followed by a bunch of disclaimers and guidlines. kinda like that movie with mathew mccommiehey "ED" Whos got dirt on DeLeon? $1,000 to the peoples choice. and we can air all of them on the net somehow.youtube etc.....just a thought

Quemtimebo
10-15-2009, 6:54 PM
Anybody on the ground in the 45th district? I literally live a few blocks outside of it :banghead: Would 20 percent of the people that voted him in actually sign a petition? Aside from stripping law abiding Angelinos of their right to defend themselves without government interference and permission, how has he betrayed his constituents?

Ricewatcher
10-15-2009, 6:56 PM
A recall might feel good but it isn't going to solve anything... The same people who voted De Leon into office are still there, unconvinced. The next De Leon that runs for office is not going to be effected by a recall.

It's a difficult scenario. How are you going to sway public opinion? What do you do to make people actually care about small things that regularly infringe on our constitutional rights? The real issue is people are too busy and comfortable enough in their daily lives to care. I know this does not apply to the people who frequent these boards, but the majority of people are nowhere near as passionate about these issues.

How many new bills did Arnie sign into law this past Sunday? Does California really need more laws?

I don't have a readily available solution. I wish I did. But I'm convinced a recall will do nothing to deter the will of any possible future De Leon. Look at the difference between California law vs the rest of the states. Why is California so complicated? The answer to that question is where the effort should be placed. A big picture approach, coupled with the continuing legal assualt, is going to be the best possible solution.

Quemtimebo
10-15-2009, 7:04 PM
I don't have a readily available solution. I wish I did. But I'm convinced a recall will do nothing to deter the will of any possible future De Leon. Look at the difference between California law vs the rest of the states. Why is California so complicated? The answer to that question is where the effort should be placed. A big picture approach, coupled with the continuing legal assualt, is going to be the best possible solution.

You are most certainly correct about taking a big picture approach. But I also think that the gun owners of California need to remind their elected representatives of the consequences of stepping all over us. Roberti survived his recall vote, but it drained him dry and he stormed out of politics in a huff. Maybe the next DeLeon would think twice before attempting to introduce crackpot legislation.

Sunwolf
10-15-2009, 8:08 PM
Always a 3 pronged attack,always.Force a recall,dig up dirt and go after his bill in the courts.

scr83jp
10-15-2009, 8:18 PM
I think it is about time we expand our efforts to stop the theft of our civil rights. De Leon could easily have done things differently to reign in gangbanger ammo purchases. His legislation shows little respect for our privacy or burdens placed on business. Our efforts to restore our stolen civil rights includes a variety of efforts including the Attorneys here at CalGuns, the NRA, community organizers teaching marksmanship and gun safety.

I propose we expand our social justice efforts to include Political Action Committees dedicated to specific politicians. I am willing to work on a single politician committee to remove De Leon forever from public service. How about "The Peoples Committe for Social Justice to Remove DeLeon" we could have individual cells dedicated to the offending Politician with all that cells resources. This is how the left forced Palin out of office. What do you guys think? An assembly bill is in the works to overturn the 962 I signed in on it and thanked the assemblyman who is taking this on,can't find the email on my pc.

advocatusdiaboli
10-15-2009, 9:41 PM
We live in a democratic republic: as long as there are enough people out there with the power to vote for a de Leon because he appeals to them, we are in a difficult place. You cannot make people see things your way through arms or force--that only engenders resistance and subterfuge. Sometimes I think retiring to BC Canada is my only reasonable option--but with a few years yet to go I figure I'll stay and make myself a pain in the a*s for them just out of spite.

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 9:46 PM
To OP:

Is it possible to focus on re-educating people like DeLeon rather than just simply being against them? Or, do you think that is pointless? How many people sent letters to DeLeon rather than just all the other assemblymen and senators? If so, and I'm sure it is, what sort of responses were recieved? Were his responses personal or mass generated? Has anyone talked with him about the ammunition subject ( or crime, rather )? Is his point of view set with no possibility to accept a different strategy to deal with crime or is he open to other alternatives?

jdberger
10-15-2009, 9:52 PM
To OP:

Is it possible to focus on re-educating people like DeLeon rather than just simply being against them? Or, do you think that is pointless? How many people sent letters to DeLeon rather than just all the other assemblymen and senators? If so, and I'm sure it is, what sort of responses were recieved? Were his responses personal or mass generated? Has anyone talked with him about the ammunition subject ( or crime, rather )? Is his point of view set with no possibility to accept a different strategy to deal with crime or is he open to other alternatives?

Pointless. He's an idealogue.

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 10:00 PM
Have you spoken to him or corrosponded with him about this issue? I'm curious to know what he says to the people who ask these questions.

7x57
10-15-2009, 10:13 PM
T
Is it possible to focus on re-educating people like DeLeon rather than just simply being against them?

Sure. Re-education works like a charm, with the right equipment. It's kinda hard to lure them into the black van with foil over the windows so we can drive them to our secret mountain base equipped with the electrified Iron Maiden though.

Of course, if you meant something silly like talking....

7x57

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 10:25 PM
Words can be powerful. Though, you can't be a teacher if the student won't listen. I'm just curious about any individual experiences talking with DeLeon about this subject.

Hunt
10-15-2009, 11:41 PM
Yep. I've seen 'em in action and I can tell you that all the money spent on flyers and mailers is good, but the deal is closed when a live person shows up on the doorstep and asks for the vote. The unions deliver this for the Democrats, every time. Republicans can spend more money than the Fed can print, but they can never match the number of feet on the ground the Dems can put out there.

I know all about this back in my youth I used to be one of those doorknockers associated with a union. I have since changed my ways.
My arguement with all this, is we need boots on the ground as well.
We are spread thin but we have the higher moral ground.

Hunt
10-15-2009, 11:42 PM
An assembly bill is in the works to overturn the 962 I signed in on it and thanked the assemblyman who is taking this on,can't find the email on my pc.

please forward to me

7x57
10-16-2009, 8:06 AM
Folks, I've been saying over and over again that Libertarians don't seem to actually turn out to campaign and so are irrelevant to politics, so I'm happy if Mr. DeLeon is motivating people who otherwise wouldn't make the effort to do just that.

But don't make the mistake of attacking a satisfying target that isn't likely to fall. DeLeon by himself isn't the problem--the problem is that the majority of the legislature voted for the bill. So take a hard-eyed look as to whether DeLeon is vulnerable. If he is, well and good--2010 is a good year to go after liberals. If he isn't, then find an anti-gunner that is and take down one of his "yes" votes.

We're here to win, aren't we?

7x57