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View Full Version : CALNRA: LETTERS TO THE LEGISLATURE SUPPORTING AB373 (Updated: Online petition!)


H Paul Payne
10-14-2009, 8:32 PM
Almost everyone now knows that the NRA is currently engaged in an effort to repeal the ammunition buyer registration scheme (AB962), that Governor Schwarzenegger signed into law, by passing AB373 next year.

As you might have heard NRA-ILA CA State Liaison Ed Worley say on NRANEWS.com , we are planning to deliver a huge number of support letters to the Capitol during the Legislative Hearings on AB373 in January 2010.

We can't do this alone. We need everyone to get together and help us gather the volume necessary to be heard. And we want our message to be so "loud" that EVERYONE hears it.

Please download the letter at this link: http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf and print as many copies as you wish. Circulate these letters and send them back to me as soon as possible. Distribute them at gun clubs, Members' Councils, gun shows, gun stores, and anywhere else you can think of.

EDIT/UPDATE: Mike Haas was up all night creating an online petition version of the AB373 support letter. Go to http://www.calnra.com/petition/ to sign the letter of support online.

Forward this message to every list of gun owners that you have. Send it to everyone!

I would like to have tens-of-thousands of these letters to drop on the Capitol during the first hearing!

Please help us continue to fight for our Second Amendment freedoms here in the Golden State.

BTW, for those of you looking for the exact text of AB373, the language has not been returned by the legislature yet. We will post the actual text of AB373 when it officially exists.

Currently, we are out-in-front of everything on this and that is where I want to stay.

Paul

problemchild
10-14-2009, 8:44 PM
So the Terminator is supposed to admit he was wrong? Fat chance of that.

HondaMasterTech
10-14-2009, 8:49 PM
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/95-96/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_373_cfa_950402_102009_asm_comm.html

I'm not sure how this will affect AB962...

mtsul
10-14-2009, 8:50 PM
So we just have people fill this out and send it back to you? If so is there anyone that could send me some I live back and forth so I get on with my phone so I dont have a printer

Shotgun Man
10-14-2009, 8:52 PM
As you might have heard NRA-ILA CA State Liaison Ed Worley say on NRANEWS.com , we are planning to deliver a huge number of support letters to the Capitol during the Legislative Hearings on AB373 in January 2010.

We can't do this alone. We need everyone to get together and help us gather the volume necessary to be heard. And we want our message to be so "loud" that EVERYONE hears it.

Please download the letter at this link: http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf and print as many copies as you wish. Circulate these letters and send them back to me as soon as possible.

I would like to have tens-of-thousands of these letters to drop on the Capitol during the first hearing!

Please help us continue to fight for our Second Amendment freedoms hear in the Golden State.

Paul

I already spammed all my friends urging them to do the same.

Purple K
10-14-2009, 9:00 PM
I just E-mailed this letter to myself at work. I'll keep printing them as long as I'm still getting names.

Purple K
10-14-2009, 9:02 PM
So we just have people fill this out and send it back to you? If so is there anyone that could send me some I live back and forth so I get on with my phone so I dont have a printer

PM me your address and how many you want.

H Paul Payne
10-14-2009, 9:09 PM
So we just have people fill this out and send it back to you? If so is there anyone that could send me some I live back and forth so I get on with my phone so I dont have a printer

You and I both live in Riverside. How many do you want? I can try to bring you some or arrange someone to deliver them to you.

Paul

NovaTodd
10-14-2009, 9:29 PM
I'll print some and try to distribute them around. Maybe we need to start something like wildhawker did on the original flyers.

CHS
10-14-2009, 9:32 PM
I will start handing these out and collecting them at Riflegear.

When I have enough for a batch, I'll get them mailed out.

Bruce
10-14-2009, 9:32 PM
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/95-96/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_373_cfa_950402_102009_asm_comm.html

I'm not sure how this will affect AB962...


Try this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231032

Cali-V
10-14-2009, 9:35 PM
Can they be faxed or e-mailed back?

ricochet
10-14-2009, 9:44 PM
I would like to have tens-of-thousands of these letters to drop on the Capitol during the first hearing!
Paul
I understand implicitly that this letter was drafted at the highest levels and by some great minds. I also want to say I'm here to join the fight.

2 comments:

o While a mountain of letters will be a dramatic effect, won't it be seen as just a dramatic overture and a waste of paper to boot (non green). Petitions seem to be the normal (& relatively green) vehicle.

o The letter/petition should make a point that enraged gun owners and supporters will support the politicians who are able to represent common sense legislation and 2A.

my $.02 ...

ric

berto
10-14-2009, 9:47 PM
I'll print and mail a stack to people who want to distribute.

PM me your info and how many you want.

SPUTTER
10-14-2009, 9:54 PM
I'm in. I will start printing as many copies as I can and hand them out.

GammaRei
10-14-2009, 10:00 PM
I am sorry, I really wish to help and can get many people to sign. But this one thing bugs me.

BTW, for those of you looking for the exact text of AB373, the language has not been returned by the legislature yet. We will post the actual text of AB373 when it officially exists.

Once you get that and I can read it and get some input from my peers. Then we'll see.

- G

GammaRei
10-14-2009, 10:01 PM
Oh and can you add, "Ill wait to see what I'm signing to the poll?"

- G

wildhawker
10-14-2009, 10:04 PM
Paul, PM sent.

Calgunners, let's make this happen.

sorensen440
10-14-2009, 10:10 PM
I am sorry, I really wish to help and can get many people to sign. But this one thing bugs me.



Once you get that and I can read it and get some input from my peers. Then we'll see.

- G
x2
I await the text of the bill and will fully support it after reading it

dantodd
10-14-2009, 10:35 PM
BTW, for those of you looking for the exact text of AB373, the language has not been returned by the legislature yet. We will post the actual text of AB373 when it officially exists.


I will almost certainly support 373 once it it written. Of course I cannot and wouldn't imagine anyone would actually support a bill that doesn't yet exist. Rather reminds me of all the recent hub bub about those voting for and against the health care reform act when they had no idea what it contained.

ETA: posted before I read all the way through. Gamma already covered my point. Let's get the text so we can read it and start rolling.

HondaMasterTech
10-14-2009, 11:36 PM
Try this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231032

I gave a link to a helmet law. It was a joke.

Still, I haven't seen his bill yet. How can we say it'll be any better than AB962?

jdberger
10-14-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm in.

However, I do need to see the text of the bill.

dantodd
10-15-2009, 12:01 AM
I gave a link to a helmet law. It was a joke.

Still, I haven't seen his bill yet. How can we say it'll be any better than AB962?

Well, since it is a pro-gun senator and the NRA is working on drafting the legislation I think we can be confident it is better than 962. It will just be necessary to read before we support.

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 12:07 AM
Well, since it is a pro-gun senator and the NRA is working on drafting the legislation I think we can be confident it is better than 962. It will just be necessary to read before we support.

I completely understand. Though, it's always best to slap two hides of a hog before it rains on Saturday, if ya know what I mean..

dantodd
10-15-2009, 12:09 AM
I completely understand. Though, it's always best to slap two hides of a hog before it rains on Saturday, if ya know what I mean..

Yep. But no need to think it could be worse than what it is intended to fix. The NRA does a lot of great stuff and deserve the benefit of the doubt at the very least.

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 12:13 AM
Yep. But no need to think it could be worse than what it is intended to fix. The NRA does a lot of great stuff and deserve the benefit of the doubt at the very least.

Compromise can be a four letter word. I give them the benefit of the doubt. But I ain't no spring chicken.

Electricboy
10-15-2009, 3:27 AM
I'm in

Ding126
10-15-2009, 6:40 AM
filled out and faxed. Will distribute to all friends & family

captn-tin
10-15-2009, 6:42 AM
proud to help! think i'll take a few to the police and sheriffs dept and see what the response is. not trying to be a smart a.. , but their support would be helpfull. if i'm wrong let me know cause i don't want to cause problems, or do anything that would hurt our chances.

mikehaas
10-15-2009, 10:54 AM
After 2 days of INTENSE work - just finished about 5 AM this morning (I had to catch a few Z's before posting <yawn>) - it's even EASIER...

http://nramemberscouncils.com/gfx/noAB962.gif (http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/)
Now we have an ONLINE PETITION (http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/)!

Try the brand-spanking new http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/ and add your name to the rolls NRA will have "in the ammo can" when the legislature re-convenes in January!

Brought to you by:
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/headers/shooters.jpg (http://AmmoGuide.com)

bsim
10-15-2009, 10:57 AM
Signer #3!

madmike
10-15-2009, 11:01 AM
#4!!!!

-madmike.

CHS
10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 23 .

dantodd
10-15-2009, 11:50 AM
Great work, when will the content of AB373 be available? I really would like to sign on.


After 2 days of INTENSE work - just finished about 5 AM this morning (I had to catch a few Z's before posting <yawn>) - it's even EASIER...

http://nramemberscouncils.com/gfx/noAB962.gif (http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/)
Now we have an ONLINE PETITION (http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/)!

Try the brand-spanking new http://nramemberscouncils.com/petition/ and add your name to the rolls NRA will have "in the ammo can" when the legislature re-convenes in January!

xm177
10-15-2009, 12:13 PM
signed it...lets get ab373 passed

bigcalidave
10-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Make a new thread about the online petition, it'll get more views

Paladin
10-15-2009, 3:16 PM
#96

ricochet
10-15-2009, 7:00 PM
Make a new thread about the online petition, it'll get more views

Please not another thread, maybe the Head Janitor can make it a notice and put it on the home page like wildhawkers flyer project was.

#157

mofugly13
10-15-2009, 7:05 PM
#161

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 8:19 PM
I will read AB373 then I will decide.

bg
10-15-2009, 8:51 PM
We only have 211 online petitioners with me being the
211th at 8:49 on the 15th ?

Come on guys AND gals..

tophatjones
10-15-2009, 9:06 PM
Sounds interesting. I'll need to read it before I sign anything though.

obeygiant
10-15-2009, 9:14 PM
Well done Mike. Petition Signed and the link posted on Facebook.

Rommel
10-15-2009, 9:20 PM
Come on folks, get the word out! I was # 226, ONLY 226 have signed this????


I emailed everybody I know! GET THE WORD OUT!

jdberger
10-15-2009, 10:06 PM
243

slidecatch
10-15-2009, 10:14 PM
246

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 10:34 PM
I realize "benefit of the doubt" and all but doesn't anyone want to read this bill before supporting it? What if this bill is full of "compromise". As everyone knows, compromise can be a dangerous thing which opens the door to more dangerous things.

CHS
10-15-2009, 11:03 PM
I realize "benefit of the doubt" and all but doesn't anyone want to read this bill before supporting it? What if this bill is full of "compromise". As everyone knows, compromise can be a dangerous thing which opens the door to more dangerous things.

What, exactly, is there to COMPROMISE on a repeal?

A repeal is a repeal.

7x57
10-15-2009, 11:09 PM
While I generally agree that one should read before signing, I think it's silly to make a point of it right now.

1) if Paul and Ed haven't earned your trust by now, either you're a hopeless case or you just haven't been paying attention.

2) I'm happy to sign on to support a pro-gun bill as part of the "hope and change" our Dear Leader and the rest of the regime have brought to America. If it is good enough for thousands of pages of health-care bill, and I have the word of the entire Democratic leadership that it is, then that's good enough for me.

3) I'm sure it's racist to disagree with #2. Somehow. It was when the issue was socializing health-care. Just believe, and the hope and change will come!

7x57

HondaMasterTech
10-15-2009, 11:17 PM
So, please correct me if I'm wrong about this but from what I'm gathering a senator is going to propose a bill that will repeal a bill that was passed by the same senate which this senator hopes will vote for a bill that will repeal the bill that was passed? How could this be expected to have any hope unless there was some sort of compromise? If I missed something, please tell me. I want to understand.

ricochet
10-15-2009, 11:19 PM
Plea to the community: signing the petition is great but we really don't need a flood of postings on what # you signed up as (unless you have something else to say).

I've included the petition in my non-CalGuns email signature (for family & friends exposure). I use Thunderbird but most mailers have a way to attach an html signature (or put a text of the URL in a text signature file). Here's mine (feel free to rip me off :)

--
mha
Countless, unseen details are often the only difference between mediocre and magnificent ...

Help strike down a law in a series whittling away at our Constitutional Rights
--------------------------end of signature-------------------------------
The last line is a red link to the petition. Here's the html code I used

<font size="+1">mha<br>
Countless, unseen details are often the only difference between mediocre and magnificent ...<br><br>
<center><a href=http://nramemberscouncils.com/cgi-bin/petition.cgi>
<font color=red>
Help strike down a law in a series whittling away at our Constitutional Rights
</font></a><center>
</font>
-------------------------end of html signature file-------------------------
PM me and I'll try to help anyone do this (except maybe Bill :)

lawnrevenge
10-15-2009, 11:26 PM
I signed it and emailed the link to all my freedom and gun loving friends and family. Avoided the people that will just be indignant that we'd challenge anything from the governator's desk.

CHS
10-15-2009, 11:56 PM
So, please correct me if I'm wrong about this but from what I'm gathering a senator is going to propose a bill that will repeal a bill that was passed by the same senate which this senator hopes will vote for a bill that will repeal the bill that was passed? How could this be expected to have any hope unless there was some sort of compromise? If I missed something, please tell me. I want to understand.

Here's the compromise:

California will have to spend time and money fighting the lawsuit that will be filed against AB962, since parts of it are illegal and pre-empted federally.

OR, they can take the easy out and pass a bill that repeals AB962, and everyone gets to save face.

Sounds like an awesome compromise to me!

mikehaas
10-16-2009, 9:09 AM
Plea to the community: signing the petition is great but we really don't need a flood of postings on what # you signed up as (unless you have something else to say).

We don't need a lot of the posts that show up (mine included) but is there a problem here? It's nice to see the number go up and gives folks a gauge of their efforts to spread the word and how many are joining the fight. Seems to me it's the kind of feedback forums are especially good for.

BTW, 397 right now.

vladbutsky
10-16-2009, 10:19 AM
#442

mikehaas
10-16-2009, 12:22 PM
First 24 hours, http://calnra.com/digits/4.jpghttp://calnra.com/digits/8.jpghttp://calnra.com/digits/5.jpg signers. By the time AB 373 starts the committee process next year, there should be tens of thousands, helping get the bill traction.

Hmm... seems there isn't much left to talk about with AB 962/AB 373 right now EXCEPT the number of signers on the petition. :p

Except - KEEP SPREADING THE WORD!! There are TONS of gun-owners that don't know about the repeal or the petition yet.

HondaMasterTech
10-16-2009, 1:02 PM
If the senator doesn't offer any compromise in his bill how can he expect to get enough votes to have it pass?

dantodd
10-16-2009, 2:07 PM
Do we have the text of AB373 yet?

captn-tin
10-16-2009, 2:48 PM
think i'm gonna supply a stamped, addressed envelope with each support letter i distribute. well worth the cost.

Trapper John
10-16-2009, 10:50 PM
I was on my way to Sacramento Valley Shooting Center this morning when I realized I left the stack of forms I printed at home. When I signed in they had a stack on the counter and were actively getting everyone registering to fill one out. Hopefully they got several hundred today.

Thanks guys and girls!

John

PS: just 'signed' the petition, was 667 I think.

Beatone
10-16-2009, 11:15 PM
Signed the petition a few days ago.

truthseeker
10-16-2009, 11:23 PM
I am number 679 to sign the petition.

MSL209
10-17-2009, 1:26 AM
So far I have 17 forms filled out about 5 pending and I have recruited 2 people that work in different departments at my place of work to also gather forms.

Question, these do count if participants simply print their names without actual signature right? I ask because none of them have actully signed the forms.

ricochet
10-17-2009, 8:42 AM
We don't need a lot of the posts that show up (mine included) but is there a problem here? It's nice to see the number go up and gives folks a gauge of their efforts to spread the word and how many are joining the fight. Seems to me it's the kind of feedback forums are especially good for.

BTW, 397 right now.

I just wanted to avoid scrolling through tons of posts in the thread that contain nothing more than a #; no big deal. But if it helps build enthusiasm, we're good.

I was wondering if there was a way we can get some business card type things printed up containing the purpose of the letter/petiton and the URL of the petition/letter web site that Mike built ? We could then distribute those along with letters like we did the AB962 flyers of wildhawker's and company. So if a customer at the range/gun shop/surplus store etc. doesn't have time to fill out the letter/petition, they can take a card and do it online when they're reading their email.

obeygiant
10-17-2009, 10:07 AM
I just wanted to avoid scrolling through tons of posts in the thread that contain nothing more than a #; no big deal. But if it helps build enthusiasm, we're good.

ricochet, I hear what you're saying on the posts but at he same time it does help build enthusiasm when others see the thread growing at an exponential rate.

Mike, Please keep up the status updates so we know if we're losing traction or interest. That way we can step it up both internally and externally with other forums we participate in.

obeygiant
10-17-2009, 10:08 AM
I am number 679 to sign the petition.

now, that's what I'm talking about. Almost 200 more signers since I last checked this thread.

bodger
10-17-2009, 10:30 AM
Signed it last night.

obeygiant
10-17-2009, 10:55 AM
All the AB962 threads on the following forums have been updated:

XDTalk.com (http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/118401-ca-will-ban-ammo-internet-sales-soon-14.html#post2185213)

TheHighRoad.us (http://thehighroad.us/showthread.php?p=5183006#post5183006)
TheHighRoad.org (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5975917&posted=1#post5975917)
Californiaccw.org (http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/40/5259.page#74460)
Opencarry.org (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26011&forum_id=12&jump_to=555322#p555322)
ARFCOM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=359960&page=5&amp;#3945452)


If you belong to other forums remember to post the CALERTS and the link to the Petition so that we can reach as many CA gun owners as possible.

devildog999
10-17-2009, 12:39 PM
I realize the exact text for AB373 is not up, but could someone give me an idea of what AB373 is?

mikehaas
10-17-2009, 2:05 PM
I realize the exact text for AB373 is not up, but could someone give me an idea of what AB373 is?
Just the CAL-ERT:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/calerts/calert101309.shtml

Personally, I fail to see the importance of knowing the specific text of the bill, knowing it's NRA's idea and Ed and Paul are involved. Plus the fact that it's too early for it to appear. It was just borne when AB 962 was signed and I want Ed, Paul and Assemblyman Hagman to make sure AB 373 puts nails in the coffin of this bad idea. You know Michel's crew will have a hand in writing it and what more could anyone want right now?

If I were an anti-gunner, I would be worried to see this much organization and energy surface so "quickly". It's gotta take the shine off your new prize to know the fight isn't over.

AB 373 language will appear when AB 373 language appears and so be it. We'll all be among the first to see it, for what it's worth. We don't actually need it until the legislature re-convenes in january. (And some might argue we want to keep it under wraps as long as possible.)

I'm not worried about it, not in the least.

mikehaas
10-17-2009, 2:13 PM
...Mike, Please keep up the status updates so we know if we're losing traction or interest. That way we can step it up both internally and externally with other forums we participate in...
Right now, it's 764.

When it gets to a certain point, maybe 1000, I'll probably suggest to Ed & Paul we expose the number of online signers on the main petition page. I didn't want the main page to display low numbers... prefer to wait until we climb to altitude, so to speak.

What do you guys think?

mikehaas
10-17-2009, 2:17 PM
All the AB962 threads on the following forums have been updated:

XDTalk.com (http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/118401-ca-will-ban-ammo-internet-sales-soon-14.html#post2185213)

TheHighRoad.us (http://thehighroad.us/showthread.php?p=5183006#post5183006)
TheHighRoad.org (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5975917&posted=1#post5975917)
Californiaccw.org (http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/40/5259.page#74460)
Opencarry.org (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26011&forum_id=12&jump_to=555322#p555322)
ARFCOM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=359960&page=5&amp;#3945452)


If you belong to other forums remember to post the CALERTS and the link to the Petition so that we can reach as many CA gun owners as possible.
Outstanding!

Are you on my "FORUM ARMY" list? Whenever I post a CALNRA alert, I also send the Forum Code itself in email to a list I keep called "forum army". The idea is that the forum army recipients can then go off and post the same alert to whatever forums they are subscribed to (I'd love to get 'em all but...:sleeping:)

If you want me to add you, PM me your email address and note that it's for the "Forum Army".

dantodd
10-17-2009, 2:18 PM
AB 373 language will appear when AB 373 language appears and so be it. We'll all be among the first to see it, for what it's worth. We don't actually need it until the legislature re-convenes in january. (And some might argue we want to keep it under wraps as long as possible.)


well hurry up, I want to get involved! :D

HondaMasterTech
10-17-2009, 5:56 PM
Even if promoted by the NRA, you should want to see the text of the bill before assuming a position. Or, you just might end up "assuming the position".

CHS
10-17-2009, 7:23 PM
Even if promoted by the NRA, you should want to see the text of the bill before assuming a position. Or, you just might end up "assuming the position".

Unlike a lot of Members around here, I actually have faith in and trust the NRA.

Easy on the M-bombs-6172

Macadelic4
10-17-2009, 7:36 PM
Even if promoted by the NRA, you should want to see the text of the bill before assuming a position. Or, you just might end up "assuming the position".

Yes. The opposite of divisiveness is uniformly following blindly or uninformed-ly - both are bad. We can't afford either at this time, so people ought to quit trolling with NRA vs. CGN vs. xxxx AND quit telling people just to "get on board cuz my way is just as good as any other way cuz we are all in this together."

Unlike a lot of Morons around here, I actually have faith in and trust the NRA.

Careful, name-calling does nothing to further the common cause. Remember the two bad things I mentioned above? Please pardon us skeptics for not jumping aboard just yet, and just have "faith and trust" that a number of us have some grassroots stuff going that will help NRA/CGN stuff in the very near future...

HondaMasterTech
10-17-2009, 7:36 PM
There's nothing wrong with trusting the NRA. They have a good reputation for standing up for what's right. I just don't like it when a person, pro-gun or not NRA-backed or not, says support my bill but I'm not going to tell you what's in it except it'll be good. If you don't get that then you're the moron.

1859sharps
10-17-2009, 7:52 PM
Even if promoted by the NRA, you should want to see the text of the bill before assuming a position. Or, you just might end up "assuming the position".

just wondering...when you say you are worried about "compromise"...what are you envisioning and based on what precedent.

For those who wonder how 373 might make it through the same people who voted for 962? It has been pointed out that there are pro gun control and even mildly supportive of gun control legislatures who do not like badly written law that will cause problems later. Clean up bills to exempting Olympic competition guns from assault weapons ban ring a bell? when these legislators see that 962 is flawed and will in fact cost the state money, they just might vote to repeal it.

As I understand it, 962 got a 11th hour reprieve on life because it was thought anything that would cost the state money was eliminated. Surprise, last time I checked it costs money to fight in court and the state is a bit short on money. Since 962 does not bring in money and the prospect of having to defend it in it court, just might make a repeal bill attractive to enough legislatures to place 373 on the governor's desk.

When the Governor see's the legislatures send him a repeal law because 962 ended up costing or would have cost money after. he just might sign it.

Ya, I know. Lots of IFs and Theory. But sometimes you have to just try and sometimes you have to take thought out calculated risks.

The alternative is worse then a bad compromise. Doing nothing and living with the law as is.

bodger
10-17-2009, 9:14 PM
just wondering...when you say you are worried about "compromise"...what are you envisioning and based on what precedent.

For those who wonder how 373 might make it through the same people who voted for 962? It has been pointed out that there are pro gun control and even mildly supportive of gun control legislatures who do not like badly written law that will cause problems later. Clean up bills to exempting Olympic competition guns from assault weapons ban ring a bell? when these legislators see that 962 is flawed and will in fact cost the state money, they just might vote to repeal it.

As I understand it, 962 got a 11th hour reprieve on life because it was thought anything that would cost the state money was eliminated. Surprise, last time I checked it costs money to fight in court and the state is a bit short on money. Since 962 does not bring in money and the prospect of having to defend it in it court, just might make a repeal bill attractive to enough legislatures to place 373 on the governor's desk.

When the Governor see's the legislatures send him a repeal law because 962 ended up costing or would have cost money after. he just might sign it.

Ya, I know. Lots of IFs and Theory. But sometimes you have to just try and sometimes you have to take thought out calculated risks.

The alternative is worse then a bad compromise. Doing nothing and living with the law as is.



Are those our only choices?

Compromise, have faith, and go along with this without all the details, or do nothing and live with this law as is?

HondaMasterTech
10-17-2009, 9:21 PM
I'm not worried about a compromise. I'm simply saying the author of the bill hasn't revealed the text of the bill. I understand your displeasure with AB962 but that isn't reason enough to support a bill you haven't read yet.

What does the NRA know that we don't? Have they seen the text of the bill? Or, are they taking on faith the promise of a senator? I'm not being a dik. I'm trying to be realistic.

mikehaas
10-17-2009, 11:28 PM
What does the NRA know that we don't?\A lot. Like how to get an Assemblyperson to gun & amend his bill to repeal AB 962.

Believe me, you don't know 1/100th that NRA does about this stuff. (regardless of who you are)

bwiese
10-17-2009, 11:37 PM
Folks,

There are good reasons the text of the bill is not out there. It's the wrong time to tip our hand. We have a friendly pro-gun legislator that sees the problems and is willing to help constructively - as opposed to throwing up blind feel-good "see I'm progun because XXX" unpassable/unachieavable legislation. Chuck Michel is reviewing it and working with Ed Worley. That ought comfort most folks.

In a similar vein, Gene, I and several others were well aware of AB962 legal issues before it passed but we did not want to tip our hand to result in any last-minute amendments that might have rendered it less attackable. We may have mentioned Fed issues/conflicts, but we did not talk about it until after the bill was (unfortunately) signed. [It also appears the Governor or certain aides were indeed made quietly aware of conflict with Federal law by a very, very, very credible governmental legal source.]

Please remember AB2728 ;) <evil snarky grin>

cbn620
10-18-2009, 4:48 AM
I am typically anti-signing-something-before-you-read-it, as I'm sure most people are. For that matter I am part of the few, the proud righteously indignant types who absolutely abhor blind follow and other sorts of hero worship. Yet even I get it. I'll sign it, I'm on board... If for some ridiculous unfathomable reason this has some unforeseen backlash in the form of a "compromise" bill, that would put a total deal-breaker on my status as an NRA member as I'm sure it would for most any member.

While it is decently and decidedly illogical to support something without having full knowledge of it (i.e. faith), it's even more illogical and irrational to think this is some NRA conspiracy. And make no bones about it, if we are being mislead into signing onto something that is actually compromise, that could only be a conspiracy the likes of which pales in comparison to Alex Jones' finest. They have absolutely nothing to gain here and everything to lose by doing something so crazy. Motive is something you have to consider when approaching almost anything, and in this case it falls within an adequately rational line of reasoning to assume without evidence that there is no man behind the curtain.

edit: By the way, I am the 908th person to sign. Keep it going guys.

CalNRA
10-18-2009, 5:17 AM
Please remember AB2728

it was some NRA selling-CA-gunnies-out bill, right?

:p

sorensen440
10-18-2009, 5:32 AM
Folks,

There are good reasons the text of the bill is not out there. It's the wrong time to tip our hand.
fair enough

"you are petitioner 910"

dantodd
10-18-2009, 7:29 AM
Folks,

There are good reasons the text of the bill is not out there. It's the wrong time to tip our hand.

I can understand that and I'm sure you can understand (especially in light of the recent "health care reform" shenanigans why I don't feel comfortable supporting a bill not knowing what it does.

mikehaas
10-18-2009, 8:39 AM
I can understand that and I'm sure you can understand (especially in light of the recent "health care reform" shenanigans why I don't feel comfortable supporting a bill not knowing what it does.
Thus we get to the essence of grassroots movements. What matters is what we California gun-owners decide to do as a group (which thankfully, more than ever, is to follow NRA's lead), not what your particular take is on the petition or AB 373. You have rendered yourself irrelevant at best.

You can withhold your "signature" because of distrust of THE most trustable but it makes less difference with every person that does sign. At this moment your stand has been reduced to 1/921st of the power of the rest of these fine folks who CAN see a difference between NRA and Barney Frank or between NRA and Barack Obama. They are wise enough to realize that NRA HAS NEVER LIED TO THEM while you are mired in distrust. Your choice. But your choice means less all the time. In fact, it means nothing to me at this moment, except to contrast your tunnel-visioned attitudes with those of patriots that know how to join and remain loyal to a cause.

You're a soldier in the movement (like me), not an officer or general. You're just not a very good soldier. For you to ask what does NRA know that WE don't know illustrates how ignorant you truly are of what is going on here.

One of the reasons the military is so good at fighting battles is because privates know better than to question the sarge, who knows better than to question the captain, who knows better than to... etc.

But go ahead, take off for Canada if you want. Don't answer the call. Keep impressing others with how "special" you are. meanwhile, the rest of us will carry you on our backs like we do every CA gun-owner who doesn't get involved.

It's you folks with the "strong backs" that are welcome in my foxhole anytime.

bodger
10-18-2009, 8:46 AM
Folks,

There are good reasons the text of the bill is not out there. It's the wrong time to tip our hand. We have a friendly pro-gun legislator that sees the problems and is willing to help constructively - as opposed to throwing up blind feel-good "see I'm progun because XXX" unpassable/unachieavable legislation. Chuck Michel is reviewing it and working with Ed Worley. That ought comfort most folks.

In a similar vein, Gene, I and several others were well aware of AB962 legal issues before it passed but we did not want to tip our hand to result in any last-minute amendments that might have rendered it less attackable. We may have mentioned Fed issues/conflicts, but we did not talk about it until after the bill was (unfortunately) signed. [It also appears the Governor or certain aides were indeed made quietly aware of conflict with Federal law by a very, very, very credible governmental legal source.]

Please remember AB2728 ;) <evil snarky grin>

Once AB 962 passed, and was on the Governor's desk awaiting sig or veto, were the feared last minute amendments no longer possible?

If not, it seems like if we had been made aware of the specifics of conflict with Federal law we could have included that in our faxes and e-mails when we were urging veto.

Making the Gov aware in a less quiet manner at a time when it would not have rendered the bill less attackable might have put an extra spin on our (failed) campaign to get a veto.

Unless, of course, less attackable language was still a possibility for the assembly right up to the last minute before Arnie signed or vetoed.

6172crew
10-18-2009, 8:46 AM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 928.:chris:

husky44
10-18-2009, 9:15 AM
#940

obeygiant
10-18-2009, 10:49 AM
Outstanding!

Are you on my "FORUM ARMY" list? Whenever I post a CALNRA alert, I also send the Forum Code itself in email to a list I keep called "forum army". The idea is that the forum army recipients can then go off and post the same alert to whatever forums they are subscribed to (I'd love to get 'em all but...:sleeping:)

If you want me to add you, PM me your email address and note that it's for the "Forum Army".

pm sent, sign me up!

mikehaas
10-18-2009, 1:32 PM
1005!

bwiese
10-18-2009, 1:54 PM
Once AB 962 passed, and was on the Governor's desk awaiting sig or veto, were the feared last minute amendments no longer possible?

Unsure - there may've been risk that bills sent back after a prospective legislative "water session" for resubmission to gov.

If not, it seems like if we had been made aware of the specifics of conflict with Federal law we could have included that in our faxes and e-mails when we were urging veto.

The purpose of letters such as these is to show groundswell of popular non-support & aggravation. Yammering about legal theories in the letters assumes they are read in detail beyond Yea or Nay, and arguing fine points of law will likely not have effect.

Making the Gov aware in a less quiet manner at a time when it would not have rendered the bill less attackable might have put an extra spin on our (failed) campaign to get a veto.

Actions were taken at the highest level to ensure he/his staff were aware. That unique source had far more credibility in matters of law.

It was either lost in the noise (700 bills in one day needed to be dispatched) with the usual pig's-breakfast of organization, or gov's leg aides thought "2 outta 3 oughta keep gunnies happy", or we were traded off against for other larger (to them) matters.

Please do not assume the gov't works like a functional company.

obeygiant
10-18-2009, 3:05 PM
1005!

That was a quick 1000. Thank you for the update.

1BigPea
10-19-2009, 10:50 AM
I'm in.

Sent the petition link to everyone on my email list here in CA.

I also printed out 50 petitions to start...

Thanks for keeping up the fight.

RRangel
10-19-2009, 11:34 AM
When I saw the reaction to this proposed bill I was reminded of the video footage of the Obama supporters bawling their eyes out, screaming "Obama, Obama!" after the election having no idea who they actually voted for. There is a similarity in the support for this proposed bill because nobody knows what will be in it. I'm glad there are enthusiastic people. Enthusiasm is good. But, honestly, I was disappointed with the reactions I saw.

Do you wonder if the "other side" looks at this and see's a bunch of gun hungry nutjobs supporting a bill they know nothing about and use that against us? Not that I think of you or anyone else who supports this proposed bill in that way, or that my opinion matters.

What Obama supporters do does in no way equate to the support that gun owners have for a natural right. I'm more concerned of what I think of myself than what an Obama worshiper thinks of me. I'm betting the same can be said of most independent and correct thinking people. It's just that the other side is good at playing dirty tricks. That's an honest concern, but the liberty usurpers will always demonize freedom.

dantodd
10-19-2009, 4:43 PM
It was either lost in the noise (700 bills in one day needed to be dispatched) with the usual pig's-breakfast of organization, or gov's leg aides thought "2 outta 3 oughta keep gunnies happy", or we were traded off against for other larger (to them) matters.

The signing ceremony/knob polishing event should safely eliminate the first possibility.

wildhawker
10-19-2009, 4:50 PM
The signing ceremony/knob polishing event should safely eliminate the first possibility.

Yep.

We were F'ed when SB41 was vetoed. Those with active imaginations might be able to make out some interesting implications.

6172crew
10-19-2009, 8:20 PM
This bill and going to war with another country are quite different.

And, yes, I'm sure this bill isn't going to do anything worse than AB962 and will probably end up being a whole lot better. But, my being sure is no different than someone else telling me that they are sure. Until you see it for yourself, you cannot say what you are supporting. I'm convinced the majority of you are assuming way to much.

You guys are treating me like waiting to read the text is the end of the world. You act like signing a petition will make or break the chances of this bill, the content of which you cannot state. Don't talk to me like I am anti-american. Wanting to see the bill before doing anything is more American than blindly following someone/somthing without thinking for yourself.

OK, hows about I will make sure no one quotes you or addresses you any further in this thread. You dont want anyone call you un-American, and we are blindly following without thinking. Got it.

Id like to keep this thread for the members who are willing to help, so please you really dont need to reply any further.;)

djm315
10-19-2009, 8:28 PM
1349 & 1350

510shooter510
10-20-2009, 12:58 AM
1391. Thats all so far? How many calgunners are there?

ponderosa
10-20-2009, 1:45 AM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 1488.

This is awesome.

secretasianman
10-20-2009, 3:02 AM
Signed the printed form at Sac Valley Shooting Center.

AMDG
10-20-2009, 5:47 PM
Done.

Arrowhunters5
10-20-2009, 11:15 PM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 1538

My wife also signed, 1539.

Forwarded link to everyone I know.

Btango05
10-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 1543.
Will forward this to my union rep to disseminate to our members

HAVOC5150
10-21-2009, 12:39 AM
This is a letter I sent to the Governor last week, still waiting for a response. If I ever get one I'll post it.

GOV. SCHWARZENEGGER,

I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR SIGNING OF AB962 AND MYSELF FOR VOTING FOR YOU TWICE. GUESS YOU FOOLED ALL OF US WITH THE (R) BY YOUR NAME. TO THINK THAT YOU WERE A BETTER CHOICE THAN GRAY DAVIS.

IT IS A PROVEN FACT THAT THIS BILL WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO STOP CRIMINALS FROM COMMITTING CRIMES, ALL IT DOES IS HAMPER THE REST OF US LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER ATTACK ON THE SECOND AMENDMENT, SINCE YOU CANNOT TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY (YET) YOU AND THE DEMS MIGHT AS WELL TAKE OUR AMMUNITION AWAY.

I THINK SINCE YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO TAKE THINGS THAT MIGHT CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS YOU MIGHT WANT TO START WITH CARS, KNIVES, SPOONS, BASEBALL BATS, ROPE OR ANY HARD OBJECT FOR THAT MATTER. THESE ITEMS ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE SECOND AMENDMENT. THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS IF THERE IS A WILL TO CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A WAY. TAKE A LOOK AT THE CALIFORNIA PRISON SYSTEM.

THANKS A LOT

H Paul Payne
10-21-2009, 8:45 AM
Thanks to everyone for your trust and all of your hard work defending freedom.

We will do our best not to let you down! Win, lose, or draw, we will not stop fighting.

Paul

Btango05
10-21-2009, 9:43 AM
I've updated my signature.... hope it helps...

mcsoupman
10-21-2009, 10:06 AM
I signed

fencekutter
10-21-2009, 10:43 AM
petitioners #1595 & 1596

H Paul Payne
10-21-2009, 3:49 PM
WOW!!!!

I just opened my mail and today's letters are just over an inch thick.

My fax machine is spitting-out several letters each day too.

Our on-line effort is well above 1600 and gun stores, ranges, etc. are kicking-in quite nicely. In fact, the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center (http://www.sacvalley.org/) sent two envelopes with lots of letters in each. J. W. Guns and Accessories (http://www.superpages.com/bp/Riverside-CA/J-W-Guns-Accessories-L0129366194.htm), in Riverside, has lots of signed letters and clipboards full of them on the counters.

Keep it up folks. We will make an impression when we present them in January. I'm hoping to have so many letters that we will need lots of help to bring them into the Assembly Hearing Room.

I'm glad I have a p/u truck! ;)

More info to follow...............

Paul

AndrewMendez
10-21-2009, 4:23 PM
Enroute, 1 from my GF and I! Hell I will throw one in from my Mom and Dad too!

H Paul Payne
10-21-2009, 5:03 PM
I'm happy to report that I've been receiving several letters (via Fax) from Turner's Outdoorsman (http://www.turners.com/index.html).

I failed to mention, earlier, that we will have "AB373 SUPPORT LETTERS (http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf)" available to sign at the NRA Booth outside the Gun Show in Ontario (http://www.ggnra.org/calendar/events/display.php?eventID=2139) this weekend.

If there are any local people who would like to volunteer to help us collect signatures on these AB373 letters, please contact me directly. I'm sure we could use the help.

Thank you.

Paul

thatrogue
10-21-2009, 5:17 PM
spammed 20 non calgunners, that seem to always forward important stuff to me, hopefully they'll sign and pass it on.

vega
10-21-2009, 5:35 PM
Tagged for later reading...

KylaGWolf
10-21-2009, 5:49 PM
Since 15-Oct-2009, you are petitioner 1659.

KylaGWolf
10-21-2009, 5:57 PM
Outstanding!

Are you on my "FORUM ARMY" list? Whenever I post a CALNRA alert, I also send the Forum Code itself in email to a list I keep called "forum army". The idea is that the forum army recipients can then go off and post the same alert to whatever forums they are subscribed to (I'd love to get 'em all but...:sleeping:)

If you want me to add you, PM me your email address and note that it's for the "Forum Army".

Hey I can post the code over on the front sight forum if you would like :D

mikehaas
10-21-2009, 6:42 PM
Livermore Rod & Gun (http://www.lprg.org/) has them out now too (thanks Don Glass!) More gun stores/ranges/places every day. And lotsa gunnies aren't online, believe it or not. ;)

Wait until January...

(1664 BTW)

ricochet
10-21-2009, 7:39 PM
Will these (and business cards) be available at the Cow Palace show 11-7 ?

ric

I'm happy to report that I've been receiving several letters (via Fax) from Turner's Outdoorsman (http://www.turners.com/index.html).

I failed to mention, earlier, that we will have "AB373 SUPPORT LETTERS (http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf)" available to sign at the NRA Booth outside the Gun Show in Ontario (http://www.ggnra.org/calendar/events/display.php?eventID=2139) this weekend.

If there are any local people who would like to volunteer to help us collect signatures on these AB373 letters, please contact me directly. I'm sure we could use the help.

Thank you.

Paul

KylaGWolf
10-21-2009, 8:07 PM
I also printed out 50 of the letters and will see if I can get Discount Gun Mart here in San Diego to put them out. If so I will check with them on a regular basis to gather them to send in.

vega
10-21-2009, 10:46 PM
4 signatures in, last count 1715.

Will print letters tomorrow.

H Paul Payne
10-22-2009, 7:34 PM
I wanted to point-out that I'm receiving lots of support and good ideas regarding our AB373 efforts.

Thanks for these suggestions. Please do not hesitate to send your thoughts/ideas to me. Because I don't always have time to check my PMs on Calguns, I would prefer to receive them via email.

Paul

nrausmc@earthlink.net

niceguy
10-22-2009, 8:20 PM
Just signed online.....

H Paul Payne
10-23-2009, 7:43 PM
FYI,

I will be on the Cam & Company Show on NRANEWS [ http://home.nra.org/#/news (http://home.nra.org/#/news) ] tonight at 8:40pm discussing our efforts regarding AB373 http://www.calnra.com/petition/ (http://www.calnra.com/petition/) .

Also, I was on The Daily News with Ginny Simone yesterday, October 22nd. You can find that show in the Program Archive.

Paul

obeygiant
10-24-2009, 7:42 PM
Anyone who has yet to sign this petition, please do so. I'm looking forward to that kodak moment when De Leon realizes that his victory was short lived. :43: Let's do better than this.

joelberg
10-24-2009, 8:14 PM
Umm 1 and 3. But I'll take 1 for now. :chris:

PS: I signed the petition and gave my real address and then it said that I live in Yukon Territory... I'm confused, must be a major bug in there.

obeygiant
10-24-2009, 11:33 PM
Umm 1 and 3. But I'll take 1 for now. :chris:

PS: I signed the petition and gave my real address and then it said that I live in Yukon Territory... I'm confused, must be a major bug in there.

That post did come off a bit stronger than I originally intended. Thank you, for signing. I would suggest sending a pm to Mike Haas and letting him now about the bug.

ETA: post fixed.

USAFTS
10-24-2009, 11:47 PM
Umm 1 and 3. But I'll take 1 for now. :chris:

PS: I signed the petition and gave my real address and then it said that I live in Yukon Territory... I'm confused, must be a major bug in there.

I typed my "City" and then it was OK.

1BigPea
10-25-2009, 8:30 AM
I'm happy to report that I've been receiving several letters (via Fax) from Turner's Outdoorsman (http://www.turners.com/index.html).

I failed to mention, earlier, that we will have "AB373 SUPPORT LETTERS (http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf)" available to sign at the NRA Booth outside the Gun Show in Ontario (http://www.ggnra.org/calendar/events/display.php?eventID=2139) this weekend.

If there are any local people who would like to volunteer to help us collect signatures on these AB373 letters, please contact me directly. I'm sure we could use the help.

Thank you.

Paul


I got 35-40 petitions filled out yesterday while at CATS in Corona with Tim George.

I'll mail them to you tomorrow.

obeygiant
10-25-2009, 10:03 PM
I got 35-40 petitions filled out yesterday while at CATS in Corona with Tim George.

I'll mail them to you tomorrow.

Nice Work!

mikehaas
10-26-2009, 4:59 PM
Number of signers is now displayed on the petition opening page...
http://calnra.com/petition/

IrishPirate
10-26-2009, 5:10 PM
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/95-96/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_373_cfa_950402_102009_asm_comm.html

I'm not sure how this will affect AB962...

that's AB373 from 1995. the numbers always rotate, otherwise we'd be seeing AB1972198726417 or something like that.

so when are we supposed to get these in by? what's the deadline??

H Paul Payne
10-26-2009, 5:28 PM
so when are we supposed to get these in by? what's the deadline??

Send them NOW!!!

I can't wait until immediately before the hearing to start collecting them.

BTW, we already have a few thousand hard-copies and more than a couple thousand on-line sign-ups (that I will have to print) collected.

That's a good start. Keep spreading the word.

Paul

obeygiant
10-26-2009, 7:51 PM
Courtesy of Mike Haas:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1407/petition2213.jpg (http://calnra.com/petition/)

HondaMasterTech
10-26-2009, 9:02 PM
that's AB373 from 1995. the numbers always rotate, otherwise we'd be seeing AB1972198726417 or something like that.

so when are we supposed to get these in by? what's the deadline??

I know. That post was meant as a joke.

DougJ
10-26-2009, 9:48 PM
# 2225 online. I'll be taking hard copies out to the flight facility and I'll take a bunch up to the local sporting goods/gun shop up in Prather.

7x57
10-27-2009, 9:36 AM
Paul, is there any difference in political usefulness between the online form and printed ones signed by hand? I did the on-line one because it was more convenient, but wondered if it mattered on your end.

7x57

H Paul Payne
10-27-2009, 9:50 AM
Paul, is there any difference in political usefulness between the online form and printed ones signed by hand? I did the on-line one because it was more convenient, but wondered if it mattered on your end.

7x57

No. It doesn't matter.

I will print-out the online forms so that the people who sign online are equally represented when we present our forms to the Legislature.

Paul

KylaGWolf
10-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Good going Paul. I have put some of the fliers on my neighbors doors (the pro gun ones) :D also going to take some to a couple of the gun shops here so they can hand them out to their customers. I figure they can keep one of the blank ones and print more of them out. I will go by their shops and see if they want me to pick them up to send them to you or they can do it themselves if they prefer.

ricochet
10-28-2009, 7:01 PM
I will print-out the online forms so that the people who sign online are equally represented when we present our forms to the Legislature.

Paul

Hope the filled in information can be printed big & bold (arial bold font for example). I'll bet Mike could make it do that :-)

OOPS: I meant Arial Black ...

ricochet
10-28-2009, 7:04 PM
Also, I've been dropping off a letter size envelope for my drops to collect the letters in and I told them I will call to pick them up periodically (or they could mail them individually).

Do we have a deadline date so Iz gets them all in before then ?

johnny_22
10-29-2009, 8:39 AM
Had a lunchtime practice shoot at Reed's. At checkout, was asked to fill out the form. Told them I did it already via mail and web site.

rod
10-29-2009, 8:51 AM
How can I support this as a NON California resident? I'd like to help, but the petition is for CA residents only.

ricochet
10-29-2009, 9:42 PM
Number of signers is now displayed on the petition opening page...
http://calnra.com/petition/

So 2,683 today; nice. Can ya check for dups ?

ricochet
10-29-2009, 9:59 PM
Call Chuck Hagman (did I get the name right; assemblyman who authored the bill, found in this thread I beleive) and thank him for putting AB373 together. Contact Internet/mail order ammo/firearms & related products vendors who ship to CA and have them tell their CA customers to sign the website. When the bill get's to the governors desk, call his office to show support for the bill. I'm sure there's other ideas.

Thanks pardner ...

ps - Sure would be nice to let the the legislators know that we're getting out of state support for this.

pps - Is it appropriate to yank the citizen of California part out ?


How can I support this as a NON California resident? I'd like to help, but the petition is for CA residents only.

ricochet
10-29-2009, 10:04 PM
Wonder if they found the letter online, printed it on their own or if a CalGunner dropped them off ?
Had a lunchtime practice shoot at Reed's. At checkout, was asked to fill out the form. Told them I did it already via mail and web site.

H Paul Payne
10-29-2009, 11:16 PM
Call Chuck Hagman (did I get the name right; assemblyman who authored the bill, found in this thread I beleive) and thank him for putting AB373 together. Contact Internet/mail order ammo/firearms & related products vendors who ship to CA and have them tell their CA customers to sign the website. When the bill get's to the governors desk, call his office to show support for the bill. I'm sure there's other ideas.

Thanks pardner ...

ps - Sure would be nice to let the the legislators know that we're getting out of state support for this.

pps - Is it appropriate to yank the citizen of California part out ?

Close. It's Curt Hagman.

And yes! Call his offices and THANK HIM!!!! He and his staff appreciates the support.

Paul

H Paul Payne
10-29-2009, 11:23 PM
Wonder if they found the letter online, printed it on their own or if a CalGunner dropped them off ?

No. Actually one of the members of The NRA Members' Council of Santa Clara County is a printer and he printed several thousand letters and donated them to our effort. All of the Members' Councils in the SF Bay Area have been circulating them to the stores, ranges, clubs, etc.

BTW, after I receive his approval to release his name, I will post it so that everyone can know a good pro-Second Amendment printer in the Bay Area. :)

Paul

rod
10-30-2009, 6:31 AM
Close. It's Curt Hagman.

And yes! Call his offices and THANK HIM!!!! He and his staff appreciates the support.

Paul

Just sent an e-mail. Will call later on today. I'll make VCDL aware of this as well. Maybe we can muster up some more support from out of state.

vega
10-30-2009, 8:12 AM
Close. It's Curt Hagman.

And yes! Call his offices and THANK HIM!!!! He and his staff appreciates the support.

Paul
Done......

obeygiant
11-01-2009, 10:21 AM
2856 as of 10:21am

H Paul Payne
11-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Close. It's Curt Hagman.

And yes! Call his offices and THANK HIM!!!! He and his staff appreciates the support.

Paul

I'm pleased to announce that Assemblyman Curt Hagman, the author of AB373, is scheduled to appear at the NRA Booth at the Ontario, CA., Crossroads of the West Gun Show on Sunday, January 3, 2010.

He will be there talking to NRA members and seeking support for AB373.

More to come.................

Paul

Sick Boy
11-05-2009, 12:02 AM
Are letter still good to come in?

I am going to be at USI on Saturday and was gonna bring a bunch of blank ones with me to have people fill out if you are still accepting them.

Thanks!

-Zack

ricochet
11-05-2009, 6:08 AM
Load 'em up and ship 'em in ...

Are letter still good to come in?

I am going to be at USI on Saturday and was gonna bring a bunch of blank ones with me to have people fill out if you are still accepting them.

Thanks!

-Zack

1919A4
11-05-2009, 2:44 PM
I am number 3500,,,:D

Since 15-Oct-2009,
3,500
have signed

H Paul Payne
11-05-2009, 11:05 PM
Are letter still good to come in?

I am going to be at USI on Saturday and was gonna bring a bunch of blank ones with me to have people fill out if you are still accepting them.

Thanks!

-Zack
We plan to continue collecting them into January 2010.

I spoke with my mailman today and he said that his arms are getting "a workout" from bringing me all of the letters each day. He asked what is going on and after I told him, he said he could use the exercise and to "keep it up." ;)

Paul

dantodd
11-06-2009, 1:10 AM
We plan to continue collecting them into January 2010.

I spoke with my mailman today and he said that his arms are getting "a workout" from bringing me all of the letters each day. He asked what is going on and after I told him, he said he could use the exercise and to "keep it up." ;)

Paul

Did you give him a few blanks?

H Paul Payne
11-07-2009, 9:35 AM
Did you give him a few blanks?

What do you think???? :D

Paul

mikehaas
11-07-2009, 10:22 AM
What do you think???? :D

Paul
I think his arms can carry a few more than yours. :p

Everybuddy, just posted a 'Repeal AB962' banner that you can post on *YOUR* website (or whereever). See...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=238727

H Paul Payne
11-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Everybuddy, just posted a 'Repeal AB962' banner that you can post on *YOUR* website (or whereever). See...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=238727

Thanks for making the Support AB373 Banner so easy to put on web pages. We need to continue getting the word out about this effort.

Strangely, some retailers are opposing our efforts to repeal AB962. :confused:

Paul

wildhawker
11-10-2009, 11:02 AM
We encountered some interesting opposition to and/or disinterest in supporting our anti-962/585 campaign.

If business interests are placed ahead of the rights of the gun owner community it should be called out and publicized.

jdberger
11-10-2009, 11:12 AM
We encountered some interesting opposition to and/or disinterest in supporting our anti-962/585 campaign.

If business interests are placed ahead of the rights of the gun owner community it should be called out and publicized.

Gently - at first.

Carrot - then stick.

KylaGWolf
11-10-2009, 10:59 PM
We encountered some interesting opposition to and/or disinterest in supporting our anti-962/585 campaign.

If business interests are placed ahead of the rights of the gun owner community it should be called out and publicized.

I am not sure why but I am not surprised. It seemed when we were trying to get this thing stopped before it became signed there were some businesses that just shrugged when it was mentioned. Then those that figured even if it passed it wouldn't do them much damage business wise.

obeygiant
11-11-2009, 9:49 AM
Gently - at first.

Carrot - then stick.

^^this here, is right on the money.

H Paul Payne
11-16-2009, 10:35 PM
I am not sure why but I am not surprised. It seemed when we were trying to get this thing stopped before it became signed there were some businesses that just shrugged when it was mentioned. Then those that figured even if it passed it wouldn't do them much damage business wise.
I'm hoping to have a web page up (in a couple of weeks) listing those stores, clubs, ranges, etc. that are supporting the Repeal Effort.

It will be up to everyone to decide if they want to support those who support us with their purchasing dollars.

Paul

Foulball
11-16-2009, 10:47 PM
I'm hoping to have a web page up (in a couple of weeks) listing those stores, clubs, ranges, etc. that are supporting the Repeal Effort.

It will be up to everyone to decide if they want to support those who support us with their purchasing dollars.

Paul

Awesome idea Paul. I will definitely support those who are helping us.

1BigPea
11-17-2009, 12:24 PM
I'm hoping to have a web page up (in a couple of weeks) listing those stores, clubs, ranges, etc. that are supporting the Repeal Effort.

It will be up to everyone to decide if they want to support those who support us with their purchasing dollars.

Paul

Nice.

Looking forward to that web page.

H Paul Payne
11-19-2009, 2:29 AM
I am posting this message to this thread because a duplicate thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=241531) has been started on this topic and I think this information will help clear-up any misunderstandings.

=======================
=======================

Which is why I asked if this is the same as the letter campaign my NRA member's council is doing. If this online petition takes attention away from the MC campaign, it's a waste of time and people should stick to the letter campaign.
This is the same effort, just an "on-line version (http://www.calnra.com/petition/)" for those who don't have access to the "paper version (http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf)."

Please take note of the web site: http://www.calnra.com/ . That's the web site for The NRA Members' Councils of California (http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/).

Thanks for asking this important question.


An online petition is worth the paper it's printed on.
I absolutely agree. And this "petition (http://www.calnra.com/petition/)" is actually just what it says. It's title is "Letter of Support for Assembly Bill 373."

In other words, individuals who fill-out the "on-line (http://www.calnra.com/petition/)" form will be submitting a "Letter of Support" to the State Legislature in the same manner that they would if they filled-out the (print version (http://www.calnra.com/doc/supportab373.pdf)). This is called lobbying.

If you read the message that I posted (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3275993&postcount=139) about this topic, before this duplicate thread began, you will better understand what is occurring with this effort. In fact, we are probably better off if we stick to the original thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231609) regarding this effort.

Care to elaborate on that? The online petition will go through the same scrutiny as a paper one. Here are the requirements per the CA Elections Code
Actually, the CA Elections Code will have no impact on this effort because we are engaged in a LOBBYING EFFORT. Citizens are simply using these letters (http://www.calnra.com/petition/) to lobby their State Legislature in support of a piece of legislation (AB373).

And, BTW........ Here is an excerpt of a letter that I have sent to some supporters for the purpose of clarification of our efforts.

////////////////////

I have been tasked with collection of "Letters of Support of Assembly Bill 373" and the promotion of the physical and on-line versions. Each "on-line" version will be individually printed on a separate sheet of paper so that every signer will be equally represented in the legislature. BTW, I will also be responsible for the physical transportation of all of the letters the State Legislature for submission during the Hearing on AB373. The letters will be formally presented by NRA's Ed Worley and CRPA's Tom Pedersen during their testimony at the Assembly Public Safety Committee hearing.

Please note that each and every letter (on-line and physical) that I collect are protected by NRA's Data Privacy Policy found at http://www.calnra.com/petition/privacy.shtml . It states (in part): This Privacy Policy covers all information gathered, stored, or acquired by any manner from the web page at the "SUPPORT AB373 / REPEAL AB962" online petition or equivalent PDF document.

All information gathered by NRAMembersCouncils.com will be treated in the same manner as all NRA membership data -- Highly Confidential. Under no circumstances will this data be sold, lent, used, traded, bartered, or in any other way transferred for cost or no-cost.

In other words, these letters will be sent to the State Legislature and entered into the official record supporting AB373. But no data-mining will occur; and we will not build lists, solicit membership or donations, or mis-use the information on the letters in any way.

To be perfectly clear: THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THESE "LETTERS IN SUPPORT OF ASSEMBLY BILL 373" IS FOR THEM TO BE DELIVERED TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE --- ASSEMBLY PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE HEARING. Period!!! THE SIGNERS WILL BE ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD AS SUPPORTERS OF AB373. When we deliver tens-of-thousands of letters, and every one of them is exactly the same ---- the message will be clear. That message, that gun owners in California are not divided and will work together in a common effort, is a very strong one indeed. Having multiple letters, petitions, versions, etc. would show a weakness and lack of unity in strategy and tactics. This "divide and conquer" mentality has worked in the favor of the anti-Second Amendment crowd for far too long.

////////////////////

Hopefully, these answers will help you better understand about NRA's effort to Repeal AB962.

Paul

vts
11-30-2009, 5:29 PM
I found the text of AB373
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_373_bill_20090223_introduced.pdf

Maybe I missed some thing, but I don't see how this is going to help.

Can some one explain it to me?

Thank you

H Paul Payne
12-01-2009, 5:40 PM
I found the text of AB373
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_373_bill_20090223_introduced.pdf

Maybe I missed some thing, but I don't see how this is going to help.

Can some one explain it to me?

Thank you

Yep. You missed something.

BTW, that's NOT the text of the current (soon to be amended) AB373. But somehow, I think you already knew that. Didn't you???? :rolleyes:

It seems somewhat strange that someone posts their very first post and they use that as an example to attempt to try to cast doubt on our organized efforts to defeat bad laws an/or pass good ones.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Paul

KylaGWolf
12-01-2009, 8:06 PM
I'm hoping to have a web page up (in a couple of weeks) listing those stores, clubs, ranges, etc. that are supporting the Repeal Effort.

It will be up to everyone to decide if they want to support those who support us with their purchasing dollars.

Paul

Thanks. I think that list could be very helpful. I really would hate to take my money to any company that doesn't want to further the 2A fight in the very industries that should be making sure our rights are secure.

Although I can't print out anymore fliers at this time since my printer seems to think it needs to stop working. Although I do have one blank one that I am willing to save and take to a copy machine so we can have some of the fliers for the San Diego Del Mar gun show in December.

vts
12-02-2009, 3:58 AM
Yep. You missed something.

BTW, that's NOT the text of the current (soon to be amended) AB373. But somehow, I think you already knew that. Didn't you????


I see, my bad.
Good thing, I was staring to wounder.

vts
12-16-2009, 3:52 AM
Think I have it this time.
Hope nobody feels I'm trying to undermine CalGuns this time.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_357_bill_20090413_amended_asm_v98.pdf

ricochet
12-16-2009, 6:37 AM
Looks like this is AB357, introduced by someone other than Mr. Hagman and has to do with concealed carry (didn't read it through to see if it's restrictive), not streamlining the purchase of handguns (as we've been told).

Allow an exception to BFSC (?) for those owniing multiple handguns or sumpin'. Why do I have to pay $25 every 5 years to prove I know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of (in order to buy another handgun) ? OK for the newbie to guns but hello, I was born at night but not last night ...