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View Full Version : Need a heads up about pistol sales to out of state residents


freespool
10-14-2009, 3:32 AM
After spending well over 12 hours reading and re-reading CA and US firearms transfer laws (and not for the first time either) and poring over many threads here and elsewhere, I've convinced myself I agree that I can't legally buy a long gun out of state and directly bring it here (need to go through a CA legal FFL: 12072(d) (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php)). However, I did convince myself that I can sell long guns to out of state private parties via an auction site by sending the rifle to their local FFL (12078(f) exception to 12072(d)). 12078(f) also exempts a handgun transfer via an out of state FFL from the HSC requirement. My question is, is there anything else in CA law that prevents me from infrequently selling my personal handguns via an auction site by shipping directly to the buyer's FFL? I was so focussed on long gun sales today that I didn't inspect the many statutes that might affect handguns differently, and there's not enough intact grey matter remaining at this point to wade through it all again - have mercy please.

Several months ago I went on a gunbroker.com forum to ask this question and got a lot of flak from people who didn't read my question, and ultimately couldn't provide any relevant insight. I'm hoping for a helpful point in the right direction here if my assessment about handgun transfers is off base.

thanks,
Mike

Quiet
10-14-2009, 4:14 AM
For handguns, you can only do less than six transactions in a calender year.
There are no exemptions for out-of-state sales.


Penal Code 12070
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:
(4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.

Mitch
10-14-2009, 6:55 AM
My question is, is there anything else in CA law that prevents me from infrequently selling my personal handguns via an auction site by shipping directly to the buyer's FFL?

Nothing in law, but what about your loyalty to fellow Californians? Sell your handguns to other Californians, especially if they don't appear on the roster.

freespool
10-14-2009, 9:31 AM
'Infrequent' is my MO, not looking to get around that. Once we're past 12070, I was looking for confirmation that there's nothing in 12071-12084 or anywhere else that would make either the direct shipment of a handgun to an out of state FFL for purpose of sale, or the offering for sale on an auction site, a violation of CA law.

I haven't kept abreast of CA handgun purchase or transfer law since the mid-90's, including the roster business. I guess I'll be diving back in to the Code if I put any handguns up for sale or auction. Mitch - do I read in your question that it's legal to obtain a non-rostered gun via PPT (but maybe not via retail purchase)?

bwiese
10-14-2009, 9:40 AM
The above repsonses are correct. Essentailly no diff btwn pistol and rifle other than transaction limit for pistols - send it to/thru an FFL.

There may be some laws in certain states/locales that make folks go thru more hoops, but I am unaware (NYC, DC, etc.) of those.

I will add for others reading this thread
- if the gun is a registered AW, it must go thru a CA FFL holding an AW
permit, unless you physically convey (locked/unloaded) the gun out of
state, where you can sell to/thru an FFL there or ship it from, say, a
UPS office there.

Mitch
10-14-2009, 9:47 AM
Mitch - do I read in your question that it's legal to obtain a non-rostered gun via PPT (but maybe not via retail purchase)?

Yes. By consignment, even.

This is why it's important to sell non-rostered guns to other Californians. Every one that is sold out of state leaves the state forever (unless the law is overturned).

freespool
10-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Yes. By consignment, even.

This is why it's important to sell non-rostered guns to other Californians. Every one that is sold out of state leaves the state forever (unless the law is overturned).

Aha, that's a good point you bring up. I bet a couple I want to sell are non-rostered. I'll put them up here on calguns, and any others from now on. This site has been a gold mine for me and for a change there seems to be solid expertise here.