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View Full Version : Need ar-15 muzzle brake advice for featureless


nrakid88
10-13-2009, 4:43 PM
I am going to switch my ar-15 over to featureless to take advantage of my preban mag stash. What muzzle break (brake?) should I get.

Criteria:
Wont increase noise too much
Will still allow bayonet to be mounted

So what should I go with?

SuperSet
10-13-2009, 5:46 PM
MSTN QC Brake
SJC Titan

They're all loud as hell though.

tomd1584
10-13-2009, 5:55 PM
surefire MB556

Sicarius
10-13-2009, 6:16 PM
Any brake will increase the noise if it is working. I like the dntc myself.
Kevin

3GunFunShooter
10-13-2009, 7:44 PM
Cooley, JP.

Fate
10-13-2009, 7:49 PM
I am going to switch my ar-15 over to featureless to take advantage of my preban mag stash. What muzzle break (brake?) should I get.

Criteria:
Wont increase noise too much
Will still allow bayonet to be mounted

So what should I go with?

I love my MSTN QC, but a GI bayonet will NOT fit.

1911_Mitch
10-13-2009, 7:50 PM
Avoid the break, it is a grey area from what I can tell.

Per SB23 final statement of reasons:

978.20 (b) - Flash Suppressor
This term was originally defined as “any device that reduces or conceals the visible light or flash
created when a firearm is fired. This definition includes flash hiders, but does not include
compensators and muzzle brakes (devices attached to or integral with the muzzle barrel to utilize
propelling gasses for counter-recoil).” There were two primary problems with the definition when
it was originally noticed to the public (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). The most
significant problem with the original definition was that it included and/or excluded particular
devices by name (flash hider, muzzle brake, compensator) without consideration of whether the
devices actually suppress flash. After further consideration prompted by public comments, the
Department concluded that the absence of statutorily defined specific measurement standards or a
statutory requirement to establish those standards demonstrates a legislative intent to identify any
device that reduces or redirects flash from the shooter’s field of vision as a flash suppressor
regardless of its name and intended/additional purpose. Thus, “flash hiders” are flash suppressors
only if they reduce or redirect flash from the shooter’s field of vision. Conversely, “compensators”
and “muzzle brakes” are not flash suppressors only if they do not reduce or redirect flash from the
shooter’s field of vision. The revised definition is clearly consistent with the legislative intent of
the statute as it neither includes nor excludes any particular device on the basis of its name only.Additionally, “conceals” in the original definition presented the possibility of an overly broad
interpretation which could have included any device positioned between the shooter’s eye and the
muzzle flash, such as the sights on a gun. To avoid such unintended interpretation, the word
“conceals” was replaced with “redirects.” Accordingly, the original definition was changed to:
Page 3 of 8
“flash suppressor means any device that reduces or redirects muzzle flash from the shooter’s field
of vision.”
This revised definition was noticed to the public during the first 15-day comment period (May 10
through May 30, 2000). Comments addressing this version of the definition prompted further
reconsideration and revision. As such, the definition was revised a second time by replacing “ . . .
that reduces or redirects muzzle flash . . . ” with “ . . . designed, intended, or that functions to
reduce or redirect muzzle flash . . . ” This change was necessary because it became clear that flash
suppressors are typically attached by twisting or screwing the device onto the threaded barrel of a
firearm. Therefore, by simply making a half turn (180 degrees), an otherwise fully operational
flash suppressor would not function as prescribed in the prior definition. The revised definition
eliminates this potential loophole. Accordingly, this final revision “flash suppressor means any
device designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s
field of vision,” was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31,
2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the
second 15-day comment period that resulted in substantial revision to the definition. However, the
Department made a non-substantial revision by adding “perceptibly” to the phrase “reduce or
redirect” to confirm that if a reduction or redirection of flash is so minuscule that it is
imperceptible to the human eye, it could not reasonably be considered a reduction.



So how can ANY device that redirects gases from the muzzle NOT be considered a flash suppressor?

Help in understanding this would be appreciated.

I would like to add the KAC PDW to my featureless.

nrakid88
10-13-2009, 9:13 PM
okay, interesting. Will a bayonet mount on a thread cover?

SkatinJJ
10-13-2009, 9:43 PM
Any brake will increase the noise if it is working. I like the dntc myself.
Kevin

/\ /\ /\ What he said.

dntc runs smoothly, just stay behind the rifle.

Spray fire from the hip too low, and it hits you in the face.

Semper FI!!!

JJ

Fate
10-13-2009, 10:16 PM
Avoid the break, it is a grey area from what I can tell....

So how can ANY device that redirects gases from the muzzle NOT be considered a flash suppressor?

Help in understanding this would be appreciated.

I would like to add the KAC PDW to my featureless.
It's an area essentially so gray that the 58 DAs have no guidance from the CA DOJ as to what exactly meets the standards in the code. Therefore it's essentially meaningless for the most part. To a point...

As has been mentioned many, many times here by Gene, Bill and the "right people" if a muzzle device is marketed as possessing flash suppressing qualities, don't put it on a featureless rifle. It really is about that simple.

MustangGreg66
11-09-2009, 8:32 PM
I was just thinking how much better it would be to run a featureless rifle for 3-gun and be able to use my pre-ban mags rather than running a BB and be stuck with 10 rounders... I havn't ran any matches yet and am still setting things up but.... would a JP Tactical Compensator be legal on a featureless rifle? No where on their page do they mention flash and it even has holes in the top to allow flash to still be in the operator's view...
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php
http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/JPTRE-3_271.jpg

How about the YHM Phantom Comp/Brake. I have one of these on my BB OLL rifles and was thinking with a swap of the stock it could be a featureless build... they even go so far as to state on their webpage that it's not a flash hider...
http://yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/YHM-28-5M1.jpg
http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/muzzle.html

Wildhawk66
12-03-2009, 6:58 AM
I run various YHM and PWS brand brakes. Both brands work well, but I'm partial to the PWS TTO in particular as it is marketed only as a compensator, and is effective, short, and light weight.

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp110/wildhawk66/pix798872531.jpg

mikeylikesit106
12-03-2009, 9:15 AM
okay, interesting. Will a bayonet mount on a thread cover?

Yes it will. My bayonet will fit but it has a little wobble since the thread protector doesn't have a spot for the bayo to sit in like a flash hider or muzzle brake. I can get pics up a little later if you want.

mike

FeuerFrei
12-03-2009, 10:37 AM
I have used many types and settled on Levang brakes. ($32.00ea.)
These actually work well when shooting with buddies next to you at the range. No side effects/blast and they really don't look "evil".
Linkage...http://www.intlmidway.com/intl/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=524840

aplinker
12-03-2009, 7:22 PM
Troy & YHM keep stock look & mount bayonets.

railroader
12-03-2009, 7:45 PM
I have a YHM and a branson comp on my two uppers. That way I can use either upper on my featureless build. The branson looks like an a2 flash hider but it has a small hole in the front plus it is marketed as a comp. Mark


Here's the branson:
http://www.parts4ar15.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BL-21.jpg

3GunFunShooter
12-03-2009, 8:39 PM
Go to Brian Enos forums. There is a whole thread on brakes. A writer did a complete analysis on a lot of brakes. 2 great articles in Front Sight magazine. Suprising results. Levang did the least amount of recoil reduction. I does help people shooting next to you, but that is all. Taking that one off my HD rifle. Putting on the Miculek brake. had an over 60% reduction in recoil and under $50.00. Just a little less than the Cooley for 1/2 the price. If you are shooting 3 gun there are restrictions on the size of the brake for the tactical division.

Gio
12-03-2009, 9:02 PM
I like my Miculek, once I get all my parts in I will post pics of my rig in the .223 section and also the Featureless threads out there ;) It is half black and half fde, waiting for it to be all fde :D

-Gio

Fate
12-03-2009, 9:44 PM
I have a YHM and a branson comp on my two uppers. That way I can use either upper on my featureless build. The branson looks like an a2 flash hider but it has a small hole in the front plus it is marketed as a comp. Mark


Here's the branson:
http://www.parts4ar15.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BL-21.jpg

Those Branson ones have been known to spontaneously turn themselves into flash hiders at the range when that welded washer blows out under fire. Careful!

esskay
12-03-2009, 10:34 PM
I was just thinking how much better it would be to run a featureless rifle for 3-gun and be able to use my pre-ban mags rather than running a BB and be stuck with 10 rounders... I havn't ran any matches yet and am still setting things up but.... would a JP Tactical Compensator be legal on a featureless rifle? No where on their page do they mention flash and it even has holes in the top to allow flash to still be in the operator's view...
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.3_tre.php
http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/JPTRE-3_271.jpg


I have a JP/Cooley comp on my 3-gun rifle. I recently shot a night match with it, and I can tell you if anyone questions that comp just let them watch you shoot it at night. It seriously affected my night vision every time I pressed the trigger!! I was looking through my optic, at 4X, and every time I broke a shot all I saw was orange then my eyes needed a second to readjust.

My buddy was watching and he said he closed his eyes and still saw the huge ball of flame through his eyelids, it was so bright!

LOL, they should advertise it as a flash enhancer!

Jpach
12-03-2009, 11:54 PM
okay, interesting. Will a bayonet mount on a thread cover?

Why dont you try it? Your current setup has a thread cover on the muzzle and you have a bayonet.

???

bombadillo
12-04-2009, 12:08 AM
PWS or Cooley brake. Great items.

I really like the tromix shark brake as well but they'll rip your case up. They look mean as all get out and work pretty darn good.