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View Full Version : FFL charged me tax on an internet purchase?


Bud Fox
10-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I saved money on the internet purchase on gunbroker. I paid $839 for shotgun, then $35 for shipping and $216 at the FFL.

Is this something new?

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
Nope. Couple threads on this issue. Some charge tax some don't.

raw24
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
The BOE is requiring FFL's to collect sales tax on out of state transfers.
Most are complying with the requirement, but I have heard that there are a few out there that do not. It's best to ask before you do the transfer.
Tax should have been somewhere around $70 on your purchase, looks like he stuck it to you on the tranfer fee. Ouch!

BrowningTBolt
10-13-2009, 12:55 PM
I saved money on the internet purchase on gunbroker. I paid $839 for shotgun, then $35 for shipping and $216 at the FFL.

Is this something new?

Geezus. What was his transfer fee? Must have been expensive.

send it
10-13-2009, 12:56 PM
i did two through ammobros in norwalk and they told me to make sure i pay my tax to the state on my income taxes. i promised i would! : )
good guys over there. 50 for outta state 25 for the dros. and 25 every gun after the first.

Bud Fox
10-13-2009, 12:56 PM
The BOE is requiring FFL's to collect sales tax on out of state transfers.
Most are complying with the requirement, but I have heard that there are a few out there that do not. It's best to ask before you do the transfer.

Thanks guys. It almost seems cheaper to buy complete rifles/handguns/shotguns locally now.

Bud Fox
10-13-2009, 12:57 PM
Geezus. What was his transfer fee? Must have been expensive.

$135 at Gun World. I know I know, but they're about 10 minutes from my office.

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 1:01 PM
10 minutes or not, holy crap. Perhaps if they toss in a lap dance by a Playmate.

I charge $20.

Amacias805
10-13-2009, 1:01 PM
jebus!!! thats alot!!!!

Barney Gumble
10-13-2009, 1:03 PM
The BOE is requiring FFL's to collect sales tax on out of state transfers.
Most are complying with the requirement, but I have heard that there are a few out there that do not. It's best to ask before you do the transfer.
Tax should have been somewhere around $70 on your purchase, looks like he stuck it to you on the tranfer fee. Ouch!

It's only taxable if the firearm was purchased from a retailer.

If you purchased the firearm from an individual out of state, it is not taxable.

This is based on the BOE response posted in another thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=826432&postcount=1

Here's a quote from the thread to save some time if you don't want to click. This is the BOE talking to Ten Percent Firearms:

If an in-state purchaser of a firearm purchases the firearm from an out-of-state person who is not a retailer, the drop shipment provisions do not apply and the transaction is not subject to tax. The drop shipment provisions provided by Revenue and Taxation Code section 6007 and Regulation 1706 only apply in a situation where you are processing a sale on behalf of an out-of-state retailer. Sales between private parties are not subject to tax as occasional sales, regardless of whether the private party seller is located in-state or out-of-state.

ETA: Don't forget to search next time...go to google and type "ffl tax site:calguns.net" and you'll find lots of info.

Bud Fox
10-13-2009, 1:06 PM
10 minutes or not, holy crap. Perhaps if they toss in a lap dance by a Playmate.

I charge $20.

Well, is there a decent FFL in the San Fernando Valley?

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 1:12 PM
Well, is there a decent FFL in the San Fernando Valley?
I've done business with Ft Courage Armory in Simi Valley. Little jaunt down the freeway. Haven't heard a complaint and can't say any myself about them. Gunrunners is in Duarte, haven't had much experience with them.

Bud Fox
10-13-2009, 1:15 PM
I've done business with Ft Courage Armory in Simi Valley. Little jaunt down the freeway. Haven't heard a complaint and can't say any myself about them. Gunrunners is in Duarte, haven't had much experience with them.

Thanks Freak. I've used Gunrunners before, and I'm dissappointed I didn't use them this time. I would have saved myself $116 smackers. Oh well, you live and learn, this just happened to be a bit more expensive. :mad:

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 1:17 PM
I think I've only used 'Runners once or twice. Sent more than a handful to Ft Courage. That's my recommendation in your area, FWIW.

RECCE556
10-13-2009, 2:40 PM
Well, is there a decent FFL in the San Fernando Valley?
Try IAC...$70 transfers....2053 Glenoaks Blvd., San Fernando 91340

HK Dave
10-13-2009, 2:48 PM
Local stores are going to want to pay tax. It keeps out of state competition to a minimum.

igorts
10-13-2009, 3:01 PM
if they don't sell anything they can't charge sales tax. Specially if it private, even out of state.
Most FFLs i use do not charge tax ( i won't be using such)

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 3:08 PM
Use tax.

timdps
10-13-2009, 4:46 PM
So is an 07 FFL a "retailer" for the purposes of this law?

tim

5150Marcelo
10-13-2009, 4:47 PM
I saved money on the internet purchase on gunbroker. I paid $839 for shotgun, then $35 for shipping and $216 at the FFL.

Is this something new?

Please post who it was so we know not to go there. Thanks!

fliparch
10-13-2009, 4:52 PM
Have you tried Gun Country just a few blocks away from Gun World, on the same street.

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 5:28 PM
So is an 07 FFL a "retailer" for the purposes of this law?

tim
I would think so. A manufacturer also sells and can sell at retail or wholesale. I think the spirit of the law will state "retailer" is a business who engages in commerce directly with the end user. Distributors and wholesalers are not retailers.

It becomes tricky if you order, from say Century or CDNN, who take payments from both dealer businesses and general public, but don't deliver product to the end user, but a middle man (ie dealer, or series of dealers).

Say you buy a gun from CDNN, have it shipped to me, pay for my middle man transfer, then pay your dealer for their transfer service. I'm not selling anything but a service, strictly speaking firearms.

However, if you buy something that my company manufactures, then I'm acting as a retailer if you buy direct. If you buy my ammunition at PRK Arms in Fresno, they are the retailer, not me. If you buy my ammunition on my website, I'm the retailer.

We'd have to search the law to find California's definition of "retailer" for purposes of this or another section of law.

Scratching your head yet?;)

freakshow10mm
10-13-2009, 5:30 PM
Please post who it was so we know not to go there. Thanks!
Posted already in post #7:

$135 at Gun World. I know I know, but they're about 10 minutes from my office.

slick_711
10-13-2009, 7:40 PM
if they don't sell anything they can't charge sales tax. Specially if it private, even out of state.
Most FFLs i use do not charge tax ( i won't be using such)

You're flat wrong. There are plenty of FFLs who do not charge tax, but use tax (same % as sales tax) is legally required to be paid on any firearm you buy out of state from a retailer. The FFLs that do not charge tax are operating on the assumption that you will declare and pay that tax with your taxes at the beginning of the following year.

Jyruiz
10-13-2009, 8:00 PM
i did two through ammobros in norwalk and they told me to make sure i pay my tax to the state on my income taxes. i promised i would! : )
good guys over there. 50 for outta state 25 for the dros. and 25 every gun after the first.


They are good guys, but for some reason, DD's Ranch would not ship my AR to them. Had to go with another place.

igorts
10-13-2009, 8:19 PM
You're flat wrong. There are plenty of FFLs who do not charge tax, but use tax (same % as sales tax) is legally required to be paid on any firearm you buy out of state from a retailer. The FFLs that do not charge tax are operating on the assumption that you will declare and pay that tax with your taxes at the beginning of the following year.

Flat wrong? i did not ask if it's right or wrong , i told what i do. Or i need to post my receipts ? ( no way) :43:

X-NewYawker
10-13-2009, 8:26 PM
I've had more than one gunstore tell me that if a new gun arrives from an out of state dealer, it is required by CA law that they collect sales tax on the transaction for the full value of the gun, NOT just the transfer.
Personally I think this is to pay us back for not ordering the gun from them in the first place (which we all should do,m unless we're buying a gun they can't get) .
I've never had it charged on a USED gun.

Forget that crap -- more important: my accountant just got a letter for one of her other clients from the CA state board of equalization last week saying that the gang in Sacramento wants all internet out of state purchases reported so they can -- ready?
COLLECT CA SALES TAX!

This same dealio is on the plate for Federal Law too. The Left knows JUST how to destroy commerce in this country. They want us to be freaking Bangladesh over here. I think that when I move to nevada I will NEVER drive back across the border. Never.

slick_711
10-13-2009, 8:32 PM
Flat wrong? i did not ask if it's right or wrong , i told what i do. Or i need to post my receipts ? ( no way) :43:

Your first two sentences were statements, and they were legally incorrect. I merely wanted to point that out. If you're saving a buck that is fine and dandy, but the way it read sounded like you were telling other people to break the law without mentioning legality.

tenpercentfirearms
10-13-2009, 9:17 PM
This is the deadest of all horses. A lot of FUD going on as usual.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2358733&postcount=14

The BOE considers me the retailer. I have a choice to collect or not collect your tax just like in all transactions. However, if I do not collect the tax, I am still liable for it. So I personally choose to have you pay the sales tax.

It is not use tax because the BOE considers me the retailer. In the case of Ammo Brothers, they might not survive an audit or they will spend a lot of money proving they can have the customer pay the use tax. Personally, the $50 transfer fee is not worth me taking the risk of being liable for that sales tax or having to spend the money on fighting to find out we don't have to.

If you want to use a transfer dealer to do your transfer that doesn't charge sales tax, no big deal. Again the $50 isn't that important to me. And if you are like the guy who just ordered a Mossberg JIC from Impact, you would have actually gotten it cheaper from me. Don't just assume the online sale is best.

Now if you are getting smoking deals on out of state guns, you have a cheap transfer dealer, and he doesn't collect the sales tax and you break the law and don't pay the use tax, go for it. Again, there is plenty of business to go around.

halifax
10-13-2009, 9:28 PM
This is the deadest of all horses. A lot of FUD going on as usual.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2358733&postcount=14

The BOE considers me the retailer. I have a choice to collect or not collect your tax just like in all transactions. However, if I do not collect the tax, I am still liable for it. So I personally choose to have you pay the sales tax.

It is not use tax because the BOE considers me the retailer. In the case of Ammo Brothers, they might not survive an audit or they will spend a lot of money proving they can have the customer pay the use tax. Personally, the $50 transfer fee is not worth me taking the risk of being liable for that sales tax or having to spend the money on fighting to find out we don't have to.

If you want to use a transfer dealer to do your transfer that doesn't charge sales tax, no big deal. Again the $50 isn't that important to me. And if you are like the guy who just ordered a Mossberg JIC from Impact, you would have actually gotten it cheaper from me. Don't just assume the online sale is best.

Now if you are getting smoking deals on out of state guns, you have a cheap transfer dealer, and he doesn't collect the sales tax and you break the law and don't pay the use tax, go for it. Again, there is plenty of business to go around.

Not that I want anyone to spend a lot of money proving this but personally I'd love to see them win. I'm sick of dealing with irate customers over this issue.